Charlie-Brown Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 If that's where you are setting your sights then Ok. Who said Hearts fans accept 2nd best and 2nd rate ???!!!!! No wonder we have to blame the referees and the media etc when that is the level of our ambition ! Previously Neil McCann (in 1996) & Paul Hartley & Steven Pressley were all signed for either zero / low transfer fees being paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Velicka's 26 goals were of zero benefit? Whilst i appreciate the goals he scored, where did his goals get us this season?..... apart from a bottom six finish. What the difference between Velicka's 26 goals for Hearts or the likes of Flood or Alonko or Stokes playing on loan at Dundee Utd / Aberdeen / Falkirk - none of those clubs will get any transfer fee for showcasing other teams players. Is it the same team foisting players onto those clubs? How many of our Kaunas loanees have actually been sold whilst playing for us and how many have that poor that they've hindered us and then been sent back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Whilst i appreciate the goals he scored, where did his goals get us this season?..... apart from a bottom six finish. Is it the same team foisting players onto those clubs? How many of our Kaunas loanees have actually been sold whilst playing for us and how many have that poor that they've hindered us and then been sent back? You could calculate the amount of points Velicka's goals won for us if you were interested enough but I think the goals against column (especially pre-January) is what cost our place in the top half this season, I say this because we've actually scored comparable 'goal for' this year as we did in 2004-05 & 2006-07 both of which were top 6 seasons however we only conceded 41 & 35 goals those seasons compared to 50 thus far this year. Regards your second paragraph how many appearances in total did those Kaunas players who got sent back actually make in total? I think poorer players like Neilson & Goncalves who've played a large number of games have hindered us more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 You could calculate the amount of points Velicka's goals won for us if you were interested enough but I think the goals against column (especially pre-January) is what cost our place in the top half this season, I say this because we've actually scored comparable 'goal for' this year as we did in 2004-05 & 2006-07 both of which were top 6 seasons however we only conceded 41 & 35 goals those seasons compared to 50 thus far this year. Regards your second paragraph how many appearances in total did those Kaunas players who got sent back actually make in total? I think poorer players like Neilson & Goncalves who've played a large number of games have hindered us more. One Kaunas player who was selected for non footballing reasons managed to lose us 4 points by chucking the ball into the net at Ibrox and having a complete nightmare giving away a penalty and getting sent off in the Christmas pantomime. Those 4 points would have got us into the top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 One Kaunas player who was selected for non footballing reasons managed to lose us 4 points by chucking the ball into the net at Ibrox and having a complete nightmare giving away a penalty and getting sent off in the Christmas pantomime. Those 4 points would have got us into the top 6. Well there you go - everything is Kurskis fault & Vlads fault - we can all sleep more easily now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Well there you go - everything is Kurskis fault & Vlads fault - we can all sleep more easily now. Yep I'll sleep like a baby tonight:) FTK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Well there you go - everything is Kurskis fault & Vlads fault - we can all sleep more easily now. Given we missed out on the top 6 by a point, it cannot really be argued that the games Kurskis played in the league (I think we lost every one?) contributed significantly to our failure to make top 6. By the way Charlie, I agree that we'd do better if we scored more goals (that is stating the bleeding obvious), however a good manager can get better team performances and more goals out of our existing players. It is therefore the appointment of a good manager that is far more important than the recruitment of a goalscorer at this time. Now I'll no doubt get one of your superfluous statistics drenched replies that usually manage to fail to address the point raised. However you simply cannot argue against the fact that the only time Hearts have had a full time qualified manager during Romanov's tenure, led to a league record of played 10, won 8, drawn 2....and that was with players such as Simmons, McAllister, MacFarlane, Neilson (who you dislike) and Elliot making regular appearances. I'll bet we averaged more goals per game during that time than at any point during Romanov's ownership. Now I challenge you to address these points specifically as opposed to dancing round the issue as normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Previously Neil McCann (in 1996) & Paul Hartley & Steven Pressley were all signed for either zero / low transfer fees being paid. Yep by an experienced, respected and knowledgable FOOTBALL manager. Vlad has wasted millions on guff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Given we missed out on the top 6 by a point, it cannot really be argued that the games Kurskis played in the league (I think we lost every one?) contributed significantly to our failure to make top 6. By the way Charlie, I agree that we'd do better if we scored more goals (that is stating the bleeding obvious), however a good manager can get better team performances and more goals out of our existing players. It is therefore the appointment of a good manager that is far more important than the recruitment of a goalscorer at this time. Now I'll no doubt get one of your superfluous statistics drenched replies that usually manage to fail to address the point raised. However you simply cannot argue against the fact that the only time Hearts have had a full time qualified manager during Romanov's tenure, led to a league record of played 10, won 8, drawn 2....and that was with players such as Simmons, McAllister, MacFarlane, Neilson (who you dislike) and Elliot making regular appearances. I'll bet we averaged more goals per game during that time than at any point during Romanov's ownership. Now I challenge you to address these points specifically as opposed to dancing round the issue as normal. Were Rix & Ivanauskas not appointed as full time qualified managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Were Rix & Ivanauskas not appointed as full time qualified managers? Missed the word quality from my original post.....and neither of those chaps would come close to fufilling that criteria. Rix having been sacked by Oxford, Portsmouth and Hearts for being pish...and as has subsequently become apparent, Ivanauskis, in spite of being a passionate man, was very much a Romanov puppet. Hearts results under a full time qualified quality(or even competent for goodness sake) head coach or manager were astronomically better than they have been under any of the collection of puppets and muppets that Romanov has appointed since. Even Frail, since being given autonomy on team selection, has given the team much better performance than we had under all the various committees and puppets that came before him. Just a 10th of that 4.4 million we wasted on player registrations could have secured us a good manager for a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Yep by an experienced, respected and knowledgable FOOTBALL manager. Vlad has wasted millions on guff. The point was that McCormack, Porter, Hunt, Velicka, McCann (originally), Hartley, Pressley have all proved to be good or very good SPL players who cost nothing or very little to sign. These kind of players are usually either at the end or close to the end of their existing contracts & not renewing with their club. Ross McCormack & Lee Miller are just 2 examples of decent players who are available under freedom of contract this summer - I am sure there will be many others. We would find it more difficult to beat Premiership, Championship & Old Firm in terms of salary packages on offer but we should be able to offer better than the rest of the SPL teams can offer even if we are paying less than what Jankauskas or Pinilla or Pospisil etc earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 The point was that McCormack, Porter, Hunt, Velicka, McCann (originally), Hartley, Pressley have all proved to be good or very good SPL players who cost nothing or very little to sign. These kind of players are usually either at the end or close to the end of their existing contracts & not renewing with their club. Ross McCormack & Lee Miller are just 2 examples of decent players who are available under freedom of contract this summer - I am sure there will be many others. We would find it more difficult to beat Premiership, Championship & Old Firm in terms of salary packages on offer but we should be able to offer better than the rest of the SPL teams can offer even if we are paying less than what Jankauskas or Pinilla or Pospisil etc earned. The point IS as things stand we have nobody capable of pin pointing and attracting the type of player you talk of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 The point IS as things stand we have nobody capable of pin pointing and attracting the type of player you talk of. Well whilst he is the (caretaker) manager and until unless someone else is appointed surely Frail has this responsibility and surely he has the capability to identify good SPL players given he spent all or most of his career at SPL clubs in a player or coaching capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Well whilst he is the (caretaker) manager and until unless someone else is appointed surely Frail has this responsibility and surely he has the capability to identify good SPL players given he spent all or most of his career at SPL clubs in a player or coaching capacity. Identify maybe, attract? doubtful. As long as Hearts remain in a state of flux regarding the appointment of a good head coach, the higher the failure rate will be in terms of getting value for money in player recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 Identify maybe, attract? doubtful. As long as Hearts remain in a state of flux regarding the appointment of a good head coach, the higher the failure rate will be in terms of getting value for money in player recruitment. I think the confirmation of whoever is appointed will be the key factor Martin as any player will want to know a) is the financial package acceptable? do I want to player for this manager for this club? I think Frail will have an awareness of the clubs kind of player budget therefore any list he might compile would obviously be players he thought the club would stand a reasonable chance of getting. If Frail was awarded the job permanently then obviously he would have to play his part in convincing potential targets to sign. If it was to be another SPL manager ie McGhee, Levein or Jeffries then they might have their own idea of signing targets. If it was a non SPL manager ie someone like Billy Davies or Martin Allen or whoever then they might want to use Frail's target list / local expertise at least as a starting point on deciding who to try signing. Obviously any new signings ultimately depend on VR wanting to finance that acquisition or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicTs Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Well whilst he is the (caretaker) manager and until unless someone else is appointed surely Frail has this responsibility and surely he has the capability to identify good SPL players given he spent all or most of his career at SPL clubs in a player or coaching capacity. YES NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 If Skacel had stayed last season would we have beaten Aberdeen to 3rd place? (I ask this as our SPL goals tally declined from 71 to 47) If Craig Gordon had stayed this season would we be top 6 & competing for a UEFA cup place? (I ask this as our goals against declined from 35 to 50 currently) No, it was obvious he wanted to go so he wouldn't have tried as hard I'm not sure whether if he had stayed we would have finished in the top 6, cos we keep changing keepers which doesn't help. Tbh when Banks has been in the team he has done alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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