Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Carrick playing up front with G Smith looking to support from midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tams bird Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 They should have announced it earlier than yesterday. All ready had plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 1 all...header from a corner...poor marking. Chris Kane? Think we released him didn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 1 all...header from a corner...poor marking. Chris Kane? Think we released him didn't we? Yes, he was U19's captain last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Mental. Free kick and 9 hearts players in the box whilst our striker stands on half way line. Wtf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Mental. Free kick and 9 hearts players in the box whilst our striker stands on half way line. Wtf? Getting used to the Paterson role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 It was Kerry Young who scored for the Pars not Chris Kane. Hearts created the better chances in the first half, but game fairly even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny1874 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 How are they arranged? I would it is 4-3-3 as come up, but thats a lot of forward players in one team. Looks a bit like a 4-1-4-1 at times, then when we have the ball the wide players and full backs tend to push up the park to help support Carrick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 It was Kerry Young who scored for the Pars not Chris Kane. Hearts created the better chances in the first half, but game fairly even. Sorry, just went with stadium anouncer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 It was Kerry Young who scored for the Pars not Chris Kane. Hearts created the better chances in the first half, but game fairly even. Sorry, just went with stadium anouncer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Is it something like.... Ridgers King Prychynenko McGhee Keegan Mullen Oliver King Smith Nicholson Carrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandylejambo Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 do you mean Kerr Young? hope so, a good Jambo that laddie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross21 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Is it something like.... Ridgers King Prychynenko McGhee Keegan Mullen Oliver King Smith Nicholson Carrick No, swap Nicholson & Oliver 2-1 Dunfermline now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Wee Jambos look a shadow of the team that played Motherwell...Jamie Walker a big player for them. Although Fraser Mullen just scored an absolute peach of a free kick to equalise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 3-2 pars Smith misses from peach of a cross from right back, sorry, but he isn't the answer. Looks capable at this level but not much more than that. Hearts right back looks a player and Billy King has ability but seems to disappear for long periods. Nicholson decent , rest look v young and nowhere near first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 the hearts right back is billy king's brother adam according to the team lines listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 2-3 FT. Red cards at the end, one from each team. Mullen sent off for Hearts. (HMFC Twitter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Tiny attendance...yes weather is rank, or has the fundraising ran out of steam? Will keep an eye on G Smith and Carrick. Not convinced former is the answer for first team... The fans are broke. We've collectively raised near ?1 Million in about a month. We've bought shares, match tickets, raffle tickets, went to pubs and paid for pictures with the cup, we've given all we can. All of this in a period of austerity around the world and mere weeks before Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny1874 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 For those who regularly attend under 20s matches, is it normal to see teams time wasting at the end? Seems a little odd to me to be doing it in a league that's for developing players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 i'd agree that most fans are probably tapped out for now BH except of course those reluctant to commi for whatever reasons they hold, i think fans can probably still buy tickets etc but realistically december and january funds will already be 'spent' for most families. It's really down to the various would be imvestors/owners to put some money in if the really care about the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biffa Bacon Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 An enjoyable match, I thought both Kings looked good, a tremendous free kick from Mullen. Going on this display I am not sure that Smith is any better that what we have seen up front for the big team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Disppointing loss reflected that the team is significantly weakened without Holt, Walker, Tapping, McKay etc. Little threat up front from Carrick on his own in the first half and Smith on his own in the second. Carrick came back from injury and looked quite sharp in the first half. His goal came from a pile-driver of a free kick from Denis Prychynenko that the keeper couldn't deal with and Carrick had an easy finish. The equaliser came from a free kick on the right and the centre back Kerr Young scored with a decent header but I don't know who was meant to be marking him. Hearts had decent efforts from Billy King, Adam King and Mark Keegan that the keeper did well to save while Ridgers was a spectator for much of the first half. Dunfermline started the better in the second half. Ridgers had one good stop and a couple of decent chances went over the top before Whittle scored with a fine curling shot from 20 yards. Dunfermline looked comforatble with the lead, but Fraser Mullen scored with a peach of a free kick from 25 yards into the postage stamp corner to get Hearts back in the game. Hearts then had their best spell of the second half, with some decent passing moves but again with little threat up front. The Pars got the winner with a neat turn and shot from Henderson that was well placed just inside the post. There was a flare up in the final minute near the corner flag, with Dunfermline's Millen shown red for a reckless challenge then Fraser Mullen was shown red on the say so of the assistant for some afters when serveral players got involved in pushing and shoving. Best for Hearts were the King brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Team Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 The fans are broke. We've collectively raised near ?1 Million in about a month. We've bought shares, match tickets, raffle tickets, went to pubs and paid for pictures with the cup, we've given all we can. All of this in a period of austerity around the world and mere weeks before Christmas. Aye, me too mate. I paid a tender to get in but I've already spent what I had on fundraisers and shares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross21 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Thought Angus Beith was good when he came on. Wanted to get on ball & calm midfield down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How did Jordan McGhee do? Everytime I've saw him he's been a stand out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross21 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How did Jordan McGhee do? Everytime I've saw him he's been a stand out. I thought he done well again. Was up against a big, tall strong striker but thought he handled it well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford City Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Three observations. 1) It was donations to get in so you could pay as little or as much as you wanted. Therefore I do think the attendance was disappointing. 2) The recast midfield seemed to be short of ideas about how to move the ball forward when up against a Dunfermline side who were 'in their faces' the whole game. Without Holt and Tapping they ended up going backwards too often. 3) What did other people think of Smith? I expected him to be busting a gut to show he should be in consideration for Saturday - but once again I thought he had a quiet game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Mental. Free kick and 9 hearts players in the box whilst our striker stands on half way line. Wtf? Striker being Carrick? Was kind of standard practice with the U 19's when I watched them last season, that for corners or free kicks the bigger players came up from the back, to challenge in the air for headers. Whilst the smaller players were back at half-way marking the opposition striker(s). Quite often it was Holt who was back marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 How did Jordan McGhee do? Everytime I've saw him he's been a stand out. I'm much the same. A very promising player who could be the next teenager to come through our ranks. I recall a young McLaren moving into our first team at 17.... Three observations. 1) It was donations to get in so you could pay as little or as much as you wanted. Therefore I do think the attendance was disappointing. 2) The recast midfield seemed to be short of ideas about how to move the ball forward when up against a Dunfermline side who were 'in their faces' the whole game. Without Holt and Tapping they ended up going backwards too often. 3) What did other people think of Smith? I expected him to be busting a gut to show he should be in consideration for Saturday - but once again I thought he had a quiet game. 1) The thing is that Hearts fans have given so much. Between shares, pints of IPA, raffle tickets, pics with The Cup, 5-1 books, posters, entry fees to fun days/Q&A sessions, wristbands and countless sponsorship efforts. There is only so much personal goodwill that Hearts fans can offer. Bear in mind, we've just had three games in eight days as well. 3) If I were Smith (and Sutton for that matter) I'd be utterly sickened at the lack of first team chances and personal respect given by a failing manager. Particularly after his ill conceived remarks this week. I'd be thinking just keep my mouth shut, batten down the hatches and wait for him to be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford City Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm much the same. A very promising player who could be the next teenager to come through our ranks. I recall a young McLaren moving into our first team at 17.... 1) The thing is that Hearts fans have given so much. Between shares, pints of IPA, raffle tickets, pics with The Cup, 5-1 books, posters, entry fees to fun days/Q&A sessions, wristbands and countless sponsorship efforts. There is only so much personal goodwill that Hearts fans can offer. Bear in mind, we've just had three games in eight days as well. 3) If I were Smith (and Sutton for that matter) I'd be utterly sickened at the lack of first team chances and personal respect given by a failing manager. Particularly after his ill conceived remarks this week. I'd be thinking just keep my mouth shut, batten down the hatches and wait for him to be sacked. Fair enough. The point about it being donations is that you could get in for a few pence if you were so inclined, so money isn't the issue. And some players respond to criticism - Smith, once again, just didn't look like he was banging on the door of the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the geezer Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Sat in the stand getting my ears burnt by a couple of roasters moaning about 'why do they keep playing short passes from the back,why do the midfielders take the ball and lay it back to defenders,why do they not play long to the striker- Then when Denis plays a long ball they moaned!!!' Its the way they are taught!!!!! Though Smith and B.King were very good in 1st half but disappered in 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Fair enough. The point about it being donations is that you could get in for a few pence if you were so inclined, so money isn't the issue. And some players respond to criticism - Smith, once again, just didn't look like he was banging on the door of the first team. Folk aren't going to put a few pence in, aren't they. Can you imagine if I was at the queue and was spotted only putting in some bronze? I'd suggest that some posters would be on saying "we can all spare a quid" and if I'd only put a quid in it'd have been "we can all spare a fiver" etc. I've already spent far too much this month on my football club. As for the last bit, I'm not in a position to comment on last night or "once again" as I haven't seen him play this season other than a smattering of appearances under McGlynn. I'll reiterate what I've said on other threads, Smith is the only member of our senior squad that hasn't been given a chance this season. Plenty for the likes of Taouil and Stevenson, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Little threat up front from Carrick on his own in the first half and Smith on his own in the second. The common theme here seems to be "on his own". It's little wonder that people say Smith isn't the answer (or whomever...delete as applicable) if we persist with the one up front tactic. It clearly isn't working for us, at all levels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford City Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Folk aren't going to put a few pence in, aren't they. Can you imagine if I was at the queue and was spotted only putting in some bronze? I'd suggest that some posters would be on saying "we can all spare a quid" and if I'd only put a quid in it'd have been "we can all spare a fiver" etc. I've already spent far too much this month on my football club. As for the last bit, I'm not in a position to comment on last night or "once again" as I haven't seen him play this season other than a smattering of appearances under McGlynn. I'll reiterate what I've said on other threads, Smith is the only member of our senior squad that hasn't been given a chance this season. Plenty for the likes of Taouil and Stevenson, though. You're absolutely right in your last point, and Smith definitely deserved another chance after his sub appearance at Dundee, for example. And if there was anyone weird enough to check what other people were putting in the collection buckets and passing comment on them for it, I certainly wouldn't consider them worth listening to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross21 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 The common theme here seems to be "on his own". It's little wonder that people say Smith isn't the answer (or whomever...delete as applicable) if we persist with the one up front tactic. It clearly isn't working for us, at all levels! Sorry if this comes across as a personal attack but I hate people who moan about 1 up front & it being defensive. It's a good tactic if the team is setup that way & works at it - something the first team don't do which is down to the manager. If the moan is about the u20s & it 'not working' then clearly you haven't seen much of them at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICTOR7 Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm much the same. A very promising player who could be the next teenager to come through our ranks. I recall a young McLaren moving into our first team at 17.... 1) The thing is that Hearts fans have given so much. Between shares, pints of IPA, raffle tickets, pics with The Cup, 5-1 books, posters, entry fees to fun days/Q&A sessions, wristbands and countless sponsorship efforts. There is only so much personal goodwill that Hearts fans can offer. Bear in mind, we've just had three games in eight days as well. 3) If I were Smith (and Sutton for that matter) I'd be utterly sickened at the lack of first team chances and personal respect given by a failing manager. Particularly after his ill conceived remarks this week. I'd be thinking just keep my mouth shut, batten down the hatches and wait for him to be sacked. Sorry to disagreee as I am fan of the lad mcghee but I thought he got a roasting tonight from the big guy up front for the Pars. At fault for 2 goals and lucky to get away with another couple. No disrespect to him as he has been excellent but was certainly not at his best tonight and was badly exposed a couple of times. Still young though so lets forget about the first team mention eh and let him develop naturally and steadily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Smith is clutching at straws. I want McGlynn to take his plunger and leave but to be fair no other manager has fancied and we only got him because Livi owed us when they went bust. Sutton and Carrick for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Sorry to disagreee as I am fan of the lad mcghee but I thought he got a roasting tonight from the big guy up front for the Pars. At fault for 2 goals and lucky to get away with another couple. No disrespect to him as he has been excellent but was certainly not at his best tonight and was badly exposed a couple of times. Still young though so lets forget about the first team mention eh and let him develop naturally and steadily. I didn't see the game, so I cannot comment. As for his first team prospects, bear in mind that in less than six months we will almost certainly lose Zaliukas, McGowan, Webster & Barr. Promising youngsters will be required. I rate him highly and would love to see him progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross21 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I didn't see the game, so I cannot comment. As for his first team prospects, bear in mind that in less than six months we will almost certainly lose Zaliukas, McGowan, Webster & Barr. Promising youngsters will be required. I rate him highly and would love to see him progress. He won't be rushed. Should still have McKay & D. McGowan I would imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 He won't be rushed. Should still have McKay & D. McGowan I would imagine He won't be rushed. Should still have McKay & D. McGowan I would imagine And Patterson for centre half.......... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 have to feel a bit of sympathy for Gordon Smith given how few chances he's been given esp after a very accomplished performance at White Hart Lane and perhaps he lost heart at not getting more opportunity at that time, however if McGlynn or any other manager is going to consider him he really has to start doing the business in training and U20 etc and force his way in. Unless we see dramatic impovement from him I suspect Carrick and Rimkevicius etc will overtake him in the pecking order and his contract will run down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskycol Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 3) What did other people think of Smith? I expected him to be busting a gut to show he should be in consideration for Saturday - but once again I thought he had a quiet game. Thought he looked really good first half in midfield, but when moved upfront second half showed why he's not the answer. Apart from his goal against Hibs U20s i can't remember him produce a decent effort on goal from any of the chances he's had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Sorry if this comes across as a personal attack but I hate people who moan about 1 up front & it being defensive. It's a good tactic if the team is setup that way & works at it - something the first team don't do which is down to the manager. If the moan is about the u20s & it 'not working' then clearly you haven't seen much of them at all It drives me mad, as a lot of the time people call for 2 up front but dont talk about anything else to do with formation, people in this country seem to think by simply throwing on another striker onto the pitch then more goals will come. But its not as simple as that. Hearts problems with the formation would be the same with 2 up front as it is with 1 up front, in fact I would argue that it would make it worse. See we very often put it to the wings, and this makes us easy to defend against, with 4-4-2 your simply put more emphasis on the wingers in putting crosses in, but a defending team who can expect this simply plays five in midfield and have one drop into the box to counter the two strikers. Hearts problem is that we dont push through the center where you can put more pressure on center backs, Holt is perfect for this (Robinson as well as he likes to run with the ball with his feet) but we were not creating that link between the advanced midfielder and the striker, we keep knocking it to the wings. We are too slow, at moving the ball around, against Motherwell for once we looked deadly on the counter and that came from the young players moving the ball quickly and hitting Motherwell when they are advanced (though were let down on some poor decision making in attack.) We have to sort how we move the ball for us to have success, to simply say that we just need 2 up front is lazy and without good reasoning demonstrates a failing in understanding the game. 2 up front can work, dont get me wrong, the Italians used it well in the Euros but there was much more to it than the fact there are two strikers. There diamond midfield, how they passed it, the piviot position that Pirlio played. It is a bizarre one in this country, why are we so obsessed with 4-4-2, yet other countries have moved on and quite happy playing many styles, changing when needed. Part of it is just history repeating itself, we always have one style and we are stubborn to change, first it was the 2-3-5, yet in the 30s this formation was being fazed out with the replacement of the WM formation yet papers still put out the players in the 2-3-5 formation when saying team line ups after the match up to the 1950s, and the allocation of numbers is based on 2-3-5. Other countries slowly tinkered with formations as things in the game changed, the Brazilians pioneered the back 4 (though they were not the first team to use it) the Hungarians developed the forward to dropped deeper which was devastating to defenders and so on. But to me there is also something cultural in Britain with the 4-4-2, it has become so linked with football it becomes seen as the only formation, the best selling football magazine is called FourFourTwo, companies linked to football use 4-4-2, with it we think of football and thus it becomes a highly prized formation. It also helps it was the formation of the 80s and 90s which people look on as period when football was fun. And just like 2-3-5 papers predict teams in 4-4-2 formations (seriously read the Scotsman on Saturday, most of the time their predictions are teams playing 442.) The problem for 4-5-1 is that first of all, that any formation that has five in midfield is writen as that, it makes it look bloated and tiny at the top but in reality it is rarely like that, it is 4-2-3-1, or 4-2-1-2-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 (true that can be said the same with 442 but it seems even more used as a negative for 4-5-1.) Secondly the most Scots have seen 4-5-1 is ultra defensive performances against big teams (France, Rangers run in the UEFA, against the OF) so the view is that it is only suited when playing the big teams and you have to defend, so people swap round as any time you play with that against a "lesser" team then they are not trying to attack. You also get the bizzare argument that only Barcelona can play with that formation because of the players they have, which is true if every team was challenging for La Liga and the Champions league, but football is relative, we are challenging SPL teams with SPL quality players. One last thing I would say is that there is an obsession in this country with strikers (and to a lesser extent the world.) Strikers are kings because they were usually the ones who put goals away. But in other countries they have released that on the pitch the most crucial players are midfielders. Spain and Barcelona realised this. The midfielder can control attack and defend, without the midfielder the striker is nothing, and the surprising thing, midfielders can also score. Its not surprise that some predict the striker is a dying breed. I could ramble on more but my point is that there is more to formations then simply having 2 up front. Hearts U20s and before that U19s have show this can work well and to call "one" up front defensive is to ignore the whole nature of the formation and game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 It drives me mad, as a lot of the time people call for 2 up front but dont talk about anything else to do with formation/ Excellent post, well written, informative and interesting. Just what we've come to expect from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 It drives me mad, as a lot of the time people call for 2 up front but dont talk about anything else to do with formation, people in this country seem to think by simply throwing on another striker onto the pitch then more goals will come. But its not as simple as that. Hearts problems with the formation would be the same with 2 up front as it is with 1 up front, in fact I would argue that it would make it worse. See we very often put it to the wings, and this makes us easy to defend against, with 4-4-2 your simply put more emphasis on the wingers in putting crosses in, but a defending team who can expect this simply plays five in midfield and have one drop into the box to counter the two strikers. Hearts problem is that we dont push through the center where you can put more pressure on center backs, Holt is perfect for this (Robinson as well as he likes to run with the ball with his feet) but we were not creating that link between the advanced midfielder and the striker, we keep knocking it to the wings. We are too slow, at moving the ball around, against Motherwell for once we looked deadly on the counter and that came from the young players moving the ball quickly and hitting Motherwell when they are advanced (though were let down on some poor decision making in attack.) We have to sort how we move the ball for us to have success, to simply say that we just need 2 up front is lazy and without good reasoning demonstrates a failing in understanding the game. 2 up front can work, dont get me wrong, the Italians used it well in the Euros but there was much more to it than the fact there are two strikers. There diamond midfield, how they passed it, the piviot position that Pirlio played. It is a bizarre one in this country, why are we so obsessed with 4-4-2, yet other countries have moved on and quite happy playing many styles, changing when needed. Part of it is just history repeating itself, we always have one style and we are stubborn to change, first it was the 2-3-5, yet in the 30s this formation was being fazed out with the replacement of the WM formation yet papers still put out the players in the 2-3-5 formation when saying team line ups after the match up to the 1950s, and the allocation of numbers is based on 2-3-5. Other countries slowly tinkered with formations as things in the game changed, the Brazilians pioneered the back 4 (though they were not the first team to use it) the Hungarians developed the forward to dropped deeper which was devastating to defenders and so on. But to me there is also something cultural in Britain with the 4-4-2, it has become so linked with football it becomes seen as the only formation, the best selling football magazine is called FourFourTwo, companies linked to football use 4-4-2, with it we think of football and thus it becomes a highly prized formation. It also helps it was the formation of the 80s and 90s which people look on as period when football was fun. And just like 2-3-5 papers predict teams in 4-4-2 formations (seriously read the Scotsman on Saturday, most of the time their predictions are teams playing 442.) The problem for 4-5-1 is that first of all, that any formation that has five in midfield is writen as that, it makes it look bloated and tiny at the top but in reality it is rarely like that, it is 4-2-3-1, or 4-2-1-2-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 (true that can be said the same with 442 but it seems even more used as a negative for 4-5-1.) Secondly the most Scots have seen 4-5-1 is ultra defensive performances against big teams (France, Rangers run in the UEFA, against the OF) so the view is that it is only suited when playing the big teams and you have to defend, so people swap round as any time you play with that against a "lesser" team then they are not trying to attack. You also get the bizzare argument that only Barcelona can play with that formation because of the players they have, which is true if every team was challenging for La Liga and the Champions league, but football is relative, we are challenging SPL teams with SPL quality players. One last thing I would say is that there is an obsession in this country with strikers (and to a lesser extent the world.) Strikers are kings because they were usually the ones who put goals away. But in other countries they have released that on the pitch the most crucial players are midfielders. Spain and Barcelona realised this. The midfielder can control attack and defend, without the midfielder the striker is nothing, and the surprising thing, midfielders can also score. Its not surprise that some predict the striker is a dying breed. I could ramble on more but my point is that there is more to formations then simply having 2 up front. Hearts U20s and before that U19s have show this can work well and to call "one" up front defensive is to ignore the whole nature of the formation and game. In short? Formations don't matter a damn. It's all about how they are asked to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 In short? Formations don't matter a damn. It's all about how they are asked to play. Not really, as Jonathon Wilson puts it is the combination of formation and style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not really, as Jonathon Wilson puts it is the combination of formation and style. Don't agree. Formations are largely irrelevant. The right manager advising the right players how to play will be successful. Formations are largely personnel driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo-rocker Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 In short? Formations don't matter a damn. It's all about how they are asked to play. Fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Fail. What, you mean you don't agree? I'm gutted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Don't agree. Formations are largely irrelevant. The right manager advising the right players how to play will be successful. Formations are largely personnel driven. That's true but as luck would have it each team is made up of personnel so there will be occasions when formations play a large part. They are however not permanent merely transitory/flexible. What is permanent is first touch. Close ball skills need to be practised to death and once mastered they breed confidence in a player and increase options eg getting Novi/Grainger to kick with the right foot, getting Sutton to remove his feet from the ground when he jumps. Just think what a real benefit Taouil's skills would be if he only used them constructively to unlock defences instead of faffing around in MF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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