CJGJ Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/hearts-ann-budge-to-set-path-for-club-1-3307228 The club will not be run by committee, nor will there be a mass meeting in the Gorgie Suite every time a decision needs to be made. But the fans will play a crucial role and, after at most five years, Budge will have been repaid in full, and Hearts will be jointly owned by every member of the Foundation. The Foundation?s monthly direct-debit scheme, which sees members pledging a minimum of ?10 a time, currently takes in ?130,000 each month. In the first two years, all of that money will go into the club, and none to repay Budge. A modest budget will be ensured, and for the first time in recent history Hearts will also build up a cash reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarryJ-o-s Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I may have missed this but will she be the first ever women chairman of a football team here in the UK or was that Delia Smith? Amidst some of the poorest attempts at trolling I've ever seen, I thought I'd answer this...... Blackpool were first. After Oyston senior went inside for rape I believe, his wife took over from him. If I'm not mistaken then their son is now in charge. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tangerine-feminist-in-charge-vicki-oyston-blackpool-chairman-1356394.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Excuse me for being grateful that my club seems to be on the verge of being saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Archer Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Dazzle was obviously just backing the Massone bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JyTees Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Much obliged ma'am. God save the Queen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haken Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Well, this thread's taken a predictable route. Only shows how much it's hurting them, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Just caught up with this thread while eating my heavily buttered toast. Got up say, it's been amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Just caught up with this thread while eating my heavily buttered toast. Got up say, it's been amazing. Heavily buttered toast is amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Just back on JKB after a few days away, and low and behold the inmates have left the asylum. Has Dexter not installed a 'bitter & twisted' detector yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teuchterjambo Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 So that's the "above and beyond" bit ? Excuse me for being underwhelmed. I certainly did not use that phrase but just out of interest what level of "above and beyond" would be required to meet with your approval ? You can't expect to decide what is reasonable and what is not for any individual to do. We have all made our contributions by whatever means ... do you want to challenge us all ? Get real and appreciate what we are getting ... if the woman reads some of the nonsense that you are spouting on here she must question why should she bother. She is providing the launch pad that is designed to save our club ... do you still not see it ? On evidence so far ... probably not and probably never will ... not much further point in debating with a closed mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 WTF? We're in administration. What due diligence is there to do? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spfl/hearts-ann-budge-to-set-path-for-club-1-3307228 I think you'll find AB has scrutinised every aspect of the club, from David Southern right down to the cleaner. This lady will hit the ground running. For once the Scotsman article made a good and exciting read, I feel quietly confident this time compared to the way I felt when Romanov took control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I share the FF thoughts. My assumption was - pay in, pa back loans and therefore transition to fan owned ASAP. that is not the proposition now Two years for complete ownership was sufficinet and now is not? Really? And what we are really talking about here is the cost of season tickets being hiked so instead of ?300 its now, including your pledge ?420 But instead of the extra ?120 BUYING the club that is not the case and it will be spent on wages etc. That is not what I want And whilst I have no reason to distrust Budge I am also heartily sick of ANYONE controlling things by the financial balls thanks very much nad the sooner we get her out the better. This should have been a two year stepping stone only with her as a CREDITOR not owner/operator The key words there are in bold. You're complaining because you made assumptions and the actual FoH plans don't match your assumptions. I don't remember FoH ever saying two years would be sufficient for buying the club. If you can provide a link to that, please do. I do remember the bid submitted to BDO a few months ago having a total value of over ?5m and a very substantial part of that being for working capital. I'm curious to know where you thought that working capital was going to come from. As for your perceived hike in season ticket prices, that's just nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Despite my concerns regarding the use of pledges and belief that the goal posts have EEN moved, I am thankful to Budge. If her loan is needed to saves is, and it does save us, then she could make a few hundred grand for herself and I would be OK with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Do people expect to be members of FOH for life, if they stop paying DDs? IIRC they get to be, as long as they've contributed at least a grand in total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Per FOH tweet this morning "Working Capital does not mean spending spree, it is plugging existing funding gap, paying football debt, and supporting shortfalls." We are going of run out of money in April, so how to we address this if we don't use the donations? We could sell season tickets and use this to plug the shortfall until the summer? - what happens when this money runs out half way thorough next season, we will always be chasing our tail as we have been for the past few seasons, selling season tickets earlier and earlier to plug shortfalls. The club has close to zero cash, no credit facilites - we badly need working capital and the proposal outlined by FOH seems entirely sensible. Yes in an ideal world we could repay the debt straight away and accelerate full fan ownership but the club is in such a perilous position that this is just not possible. Using the donations gives us an opportunity to get our heads above water and create a more solid base to move forward on. I'm a bit late to catching up with this thread, but this is an excellent post. IMO believing that getting the club back on a sure footing is as simple as buying the shares and that's that is one more reason why fans shouldn't be given absolute power right away. Another statement of the bleedin' obvious: if you've fronted 2.5m to save the club where no-one else has, you get to do what the feck you want within reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 IIRC they get to be, as long as they've contributed at least a grand in total. That was just one idea floated at one stage, but FoH in their draft members agreement ask for other suggestions. In my view if someone contributes throughout the 5 year period (nearer 6 years if you count from the start of DDs being taken) until FoH takes over then they should be entitled to life time membership and a share through FoH in ownership if the club - they have contributed to buying the club, which for me remains the fundamental point of the whole shebang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 That was just one idea floated at one stage, but FoH in their draft members agreement ask for other suggestions. In my view if someone contributes throughout the 5 year period (nearer 6 years if you count from the start of DDs being taken) until FoH takes over then they should be entitled to life time membership and a share through FoH in ownership if the club - they have contributed to buying the club, which for me remains the fundamental point of the whole shebang. Agree with this but it could get messy. Should those who continue to contribute after ownership is secured gain an extra share? etc Stand by for a very large spreadsheet ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 That was just one idea floated at one stage, but FoH in their draft members agreement ask for other suggestions. In my view if someone contributes throughout the 5 year period (nearer 6 years if you count from the start of DDs being taken) until FoH takes over then they should be entitled to life time membership and a share through FoH in ownership if the club - they have contributed to buying the club, which for me remains the fundamental point of the whole shebang. Surely saving the club is the fundamental point of the whole shebang ? A point missed(not necessarily by you) by many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I'm up to page 12 so far, please tell me "doctor" jambo fecks off back to Hobo troll land soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 After sleeping on it I've come round to a different line of thinking on the ?1.4m a year. My original thought was "what's it for/why is it needed?". In fact it is simply part of the cost of us buying the club - it will be up to Ann Budge and her appointees to decide what do with it. The bottom line is that the deal is that we pay ?6.3m to buy the club in return for a ?2.5m loan from Ann Budge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Despite my concerns regarding the use of pledges and belief that the goal posts have EEN moved, I am thankful to Budge. If her loan is needed to saves is, and it does save us, then she could make a few hundred grand for herself and I would be OK with it. Strange that you think the goal posts have moved, because I'm sure I remember you posting about the bid that FoH submitted which included ?3.75 million in working capital. It seems odd to be shocked when it turns out that they reckon we need ?3.8 million in working capital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) to buy, maintain and run the club for a period of years ! Sorry this was a reply to FA Edited February 15, 2014 by davieholt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faustino Asprilla Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hibs fan in peas. Good to see you chaps getting out the trouble Romanov left you in and also well done for getting all the pledges you have gotten so far, it's an incredible amount. It amazes me how any hearts fan can't see how great a gesture it is for a retired woman to borrow ?2.5m of her own cash to rescue the club. She's getting absolutely zero from it financially - it will be because her, like most football supporters, true football supporters wants to see her club being around for her granddaughters etc. Fair enough it might take a little longer than anticipated to become a fan owned club but surely the message was simple, loud and clear when this idea came to fruition "invest, pledge and save the club" how you get there is another argument but that was surely why the majority pledged? To make sure the club wasn't liquidated? Well done on everything that's going the clubs way just now - how the club was ran in the past etc is in the past - hearts didn't cheat the major thing I believe hearts where guilty of was not facing the horrible truths about the finances and continuing the journey knowing it would end one day - what's happened since and how the support have dug deep and saved the club at various times throughout the last 2 years deserves an outcome such as this. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 to buy, maintain and run the club for a period of years ! Sorry this was a reply to FA I contribute to maintaining and running the club through buying my ST, Hearts World, programme, shop merchandise and so on. The essential and unique point about the FoH shebang is and always has been buying the club. It's going to cost us ?6.3m to do that and if that's what is needed (and it's what has been agreed with Ann Budge so it is what's needed) so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Strange that you think the goal posts have moved, because I'm sure I remember you posting about the bid that FoH submitted which included ?3.75 million in working capital. It seems odd to be shocked when it turns out that they reckon we need ?3.8 million in working capital. The goal posts have always been pretty mobile. When I pledged FoH said very clearly that no money would be taken until a deal to buy the club had been concluded and "full financial information" provided. The FoH site still says spending on anything other than shares will be subject to members' approval. Not surprising given the process and circumstances but undeniable movement. Edited February 15, 2014 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) The goal posts have always been pretty mobile. When I pledged FoH said very clearly that no money would be taken until a deal to buy the club had been concluded and "full financial information" provided. The FoH site still says spending on anything other than shares will be subject to members' approval. Not surprising given the process and circumstances but undeniable movement. Does it matter if it benefits the club? With the length of time the admin process has taken if FOH had taken no money until we were out of admin our future would look grim as **** Thank god FOH are being flexible in the interests of the club. Edited February 15, 2014 by Jammy T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I think flexibility is the key in what has been an extraordinary administration process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 BDO have managed to operate the club on a break even basis for the past 8 months on one third of the season ticket money, while paying all bills as they fall due. They also estimated that the club could operate at a small profit of around ?400,000 per annum in their pitch to potential buyers of the club. Now if BDO are as good as their word, and I've no reason to doubt them, I don't know where the need for ?2.8M extra working capital comes from. They are doing this all with a threadbare squad of players and not in any way trying to promote and develop the club, so it stands to reason that more investment is required to move the club on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 I think flexibility is the key in what has been an extraordinary administration process. I think there would have been almost 100% approval from the membership for this stance. Hopefully though, it is not any kind of precedent for when we are back to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartgarfunkel Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Excuse me for being grateful that my club seems to be on the verge of being saved. Aye, get a ******* grip Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Hibs fan in peas. Good to see you chaps getting out the trouble Romanov left you in and also well done for getting all the pledges you have gotten so far, it's an incredible amount. It amazes me how any hearts fan can't see how great a gesture it is for a retired woman to borrow ?2.5m of her own cash to rescue the club. She's getting absolutely zero from it financially - it will be because her, like most football supporters, true football supporters wants to see her club being around for her granddaughters etc. Fair enough it might take a little longer than anticipated to become a fan owned club but surely the message was simple, loud and clear when this idea came to fruition "invest, pledge and save the club" how you get there is another argument but that was surely why the majority pledged? To make sure the club wasn't liquidated? Well done on everything that's going the clubs way just now - how the club was ran in the past etc is in the past - hearts didn't cheat the major thing I believe hearts where guilty of was not facing the horrible truths about the finances and continuing the journey knowing it would end one day - what's happened since and how the support have dug deep and saved the club at various times throughout the last 2 years deserves an outcome such as this. Cheers. Cheers mate it's a pity some of our own fans(allegedly) can't see what kind of gesture this is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 They are doing this all with a threadbare squad of players and not in any way trying to promote and develop the club, so it stands to reason that more investment is required to move the club on. More investment will come from the two thirds of Season Ticket money that was denied to the club this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 You can see the fans appearing now who really think they know better. I knew this would happen as things progressed. Some folk just can't keep their nose out and let qualified people get on with the job. I've crossed paths with many supporters clubs representatives and a lot of them (not all)think a lot of themselves when they know little more than the ordinary fan. These are the ones who are dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie749 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 More investment will come from the two thirds of Season Ticket money that was denied to the club this season. While I enjoy reading your posts and you're clearly knowledgable FF, business isn't you're strong point. No business coming out of admin would turn down a cash injection of that amount at practically zero interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos_1874 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Why do we still need monthly pledges to plug a funding gap next season rather than these being directed to repaying the loan? Surely we will have all the season ticket money at our disposal, we have already slashed wages and costs in general and we won't be paying interest on a massive UBIG/UKIO loan. Obviously we will have less TV and attendance revenue but I would have thought that at least some of the pledge money could be used to begin paying back the loan. I understand that the proposal is to get us back on a bit more of a firm financial footing and to give us some working capital but I just thought that some could be used to pay the loan back now as I didn't think that the funding gap will be that large. Not a criticism of the plans at all, I just want to understand them a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 More investment will come from the two thirds of Season Ticket money that was denied to the club this season. Yes but my comments were based on your suggestion that BDO were running the club well just now and possibly going to make a profit of ?400k. You have to take into account the number of players and staff who are currently on reduced wages and the size of our playing squad and we may well be short of other backroom staff etc so even with the Season Ticket money you refer to we still need more investment to progress the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 While I enjoy reading your posts and you're clearly knowledgable FF, business isn't you're strong point. No business coming out of admin would turn down a cash injection of that amount at practically zero interest. The business coming out of admin will receive an immediate cash injection of ?1M at zero interest in addition to the full value of all the ST sales over the next two seasons. That is ?1M more than any other club at our level will be receiving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie749 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 The business coming out of admin will receive an immediate cash injection of ?1M at zero interest in addition to the full value of all the ST sales over the next two seasons. That is ?1M more than any other club at our level will be receiving. And that's a bad thing? To be solvent and in the black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Why do we still need monthly pledges to plug a funding gap next season rather than these being directed to repaying the loan? Surely we will have all the season ticket money at our disposal, we have already slashed wages and costs in general and we won't be paying interest on a massive UBIG/UKIO loan. Obviously we will have less TV and attendance revenue but I would have thought that at least some of the pledge money could be used to begin paying back the loan. I understand that the proposal is to get us back on a bit more of a firm financial footing and to give us some working capital but I just thought that some could be used to pay the loan back now as I didn't think that the funding gap will be that large. Not a criticism of the plans at all, I just want to understand them a bit more. Part of the financial plan is to build up a cash asset that's is carried over from season to season. Not some dodgy paper shuffle illusion either but money in the bank. Edited February 15, 2014 by Dannie Boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Does it matter if it benefits the club? With the length of time the admin process has taken if FOH had taken no money until we were out of admin our future would look grim as **** Thank god FOH are being flexible in the interests of the club. All for flexibility. Just don't say nothing has changed. Also not sure why our future would be grim as **** - not a penny of our FoH subs have funded the club through administration. The original plan was to start taking money when the deal to buy the club was done, so when deal is finally done FoH will be ?1m ahead of where they planned to be. Good. But a wee chage of plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 You can see the fans appearing now who really think they know better. I knew this would happen as things progressed. Some folk just can't keep their nose out and let qualified people get on with the job. I've crossed paths with many supporters clubs representatives and a lot of them (not all)think a lot of themselves when they know little more than the ordinary fan. These are the ones who are dangerous. I just see people discussing the latest news, the vast majority of them fully supportive of FoH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Part of the financial plan is to build up a cash asset that's is carried over from season to season. Not some dodgy paper shuffle illusion either but money in the bank. It's probably a good idea but I would be surprised if Ann Budge ran her own business with idle cash sitting in the bank. Edited February 15, 2014 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Yes but my comments were based on your suggestion that BDO were running the club well just now and possibly going to make a profit of ?400k. You have to take into account the number of players and staff who are currently on reduced wages and the size of our playing squad and we may well be short of other backroom staff etc so even with the Season Ticket money you refer to we still need more investment to progress the club. I'm sure that BDO's forecast of a profit was based on a full years trading with "normal" income and expenditure. The point I am making is that the club needs to cut its cloth according to its income. That income can be grown through increased ticket sales, sponsorship, advertising, hospitality, merchandising etc. Unlike, others on this thread, I have no desire that my future FOH contributions are spent on players wages, beyond that required to save the club and meet its contractual obligations. That is a personal view and I don't seek to impose it on anyone else. I am content however, from supplemental information provided by FOH yesterday afternoon, that the explanation where FOH monies will be used to meet the current shortfall and will subsequently be used to build a cash reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 It's probably a good idea but I would be surprised if Ann Budge ran her own business with idle cash sitting in the bank. Difference is her business would merit an overdraft facility to even out positive and negative cashflows (the close season variety) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 While I enjoy reading your posts and you're clearly knowledgable FF, business isn't you're strong point. No business coming out of admin would turn down a cash injection of that amount at practically zero interest. The only cash injection is coming from us and not only does it carry zero interest, it is a non-returnable gift! Ann Budge's cash injection (and grateful for it we all are) is winging its way several hundred miles eastwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 It's probably a good idea but I would be surprised if Ann Budge ran her own business with idle cash sitting in the bank. There is a statement somewhere which lays out the financial strategy and carrying forward a cash surplus is part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie749 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 The only cash injection is coming from us and not only does it carry zero interest, it is a non-returnable gift! Ann Budge's cash injection (and grateful for it we all are) is winging its way several hundred miles eastwards. True, but we got what we wanted in return. ?2.5m is sweeties for what we got, remember a lot of people were on here saying ?4-?4.5m was needed to buy the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 True, but we got what we wanted in return. ?2.5m is sweeties for what we got, remember a lot of people were on here saying ?4-?4.5m was needed to buy the club. Indeed. We had to outbid sideshow Bob and the Scandinavians and were terrified we wouldn't get preferred bidder status if we didn't offer much more. ?2.5m is just to get us out of admin and secure the shares. It was always going to cost a lot more to get the club running and on a secure financial footing. The reported costs of keeping the main stand open, alone, frightens me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambos_1874 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Indeed. We had to outbid sideshow Bob and the Scandinavians and were terrified we wouldn't get preferred bidder status if we didn't offer much more. ?2.5m is just to get us out of admin and secure the shares. It was always going to cost a lot more to get the club running and on a secure financial footing. The reported costs of keeping the main stand open, alone, frightens me ! What's the cost of keeping it open? Also, do you know what it costs to maintain the Wheatfield on an annual basis compared to the Main Stand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davie749 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 Indeed. We had to outbid sideshow Bob and the Scandinavians and were terrified we wouldn't get preferred bidder status if we didn't offer much more. ?2.5m is just to get us out of admin and secure the shares. It was always going to cost a lot more to get the club running and on a secure financial footing. The reported costs of keeping the main stand open, alone, frightens me ! Sideshow was never in the picture, he's a deluded attention seeking old fool, who has proved throughout his life he couldn't run a bath never mind a business far beyond a school tuck shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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