AyrJambo Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 4 minutes ago, TallPaul said: What would they be? If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets.. Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being Share of government real estate and resources including equipment In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets.. Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being Share of government real estate and resources including equipment In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle You seem to be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 4 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: You seem to be getting a little bit ahead of yourself. How so? On the one hand people want cast-iron guarantees of what an independent Scotland will look like, how the economy will perform, what prices, taxes, inflation will be but you are now criticising me for answering a question on what a share of UK assets might look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 55 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: What “ assets “ ! Apparently the uk is broke , skint , finished . Well a few on this never stop saying it is . Beat me to it. UK is skint and broken according to the nationalists. They dont know if they are coming or going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: What “ assets “ ! Apparently the uk is broke , skint , finished . Well a few on this never stop saying it is . 2 minutes ago, Australis said: Beat me to it. UK is skint and broken according to the nationalists. They dont know if they are coming or going. What economic measures do you both use to measure skintness. We are in debt last time I checked almost 100% of our gdp. That's UK debt. Now if you both care to check any studies the wealth of this nation exceeds that debt structurally . For now. Oxford studies show Scots disproportionately contributed to that structural wealth. But if you both choose to ignore the trajectory that's your narrow view. But to somehow expect Scotland to take on a share of debt without realising that we have contributed far more than we have taken. Well you both just don't want to talk sense. And Judy you're starting to nip my nut. Turncoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Judy says indy support is part time like hibs support. At least their no wee turncoat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Not anything we’ll need to be concerned with any time soon,if ever thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Montpelier Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 3 minutes ago, Ked said: Judy says indy support is part time like hibs support. At least their no wee turncoat. I'd say the indy movement is more like the Hibs team Capable of getting into half decent positions but then completely and hilariously screwing up, leaving everyone but themselves roaring with laughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallPaul Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 36 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets.. Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being Share of government real estate and resources including equipment In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle So we get to keep our trees and we get 8.5% of that the UK munitions in exchange for 8.5% of the UK national debt. Sounds like a great deal 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, TallPaul said: So we get to keep our trees and we get 8.5% of that the UK munitions in exchange for 8.5% of the UK national debt. Sounds like a great deal 🤣 No. We don't share debt . We don't take wealth. But if we were to take back our share of the structural wealth how much would that be worth. Gold reserves. Military hardware To name but 2. It's absolutely wild reading your posts. Yer not a dafty. 8.5 of national debt versus according to Oxford studies 25% of national wealth. Sounds tidy. Although the UK is in decline. By the time the turncoats and the handout brigade realise place will be goosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 13 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: I'd say the indy movement is more like the Hibs team Capable of getting into half decent positions but then completely and hilariously screwing up, leaving everyone but themselves roaring with laughter. Better. I'd say the unionists were more hibs. Ken it's pish but will say any old shite is good . Deluded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Independent voters are like Hearts. Owned by the people for the people by the people. Anyone ken what team turncoats support? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 We need more turncoats imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallPaul Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 3 minutes ago, Ked said: Independent voters are like Hearts. Owned by the people for the people by the people. Anyone ken what team turncoats support? Wow what an interesting input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, TallPaul said: Wow what an interesting input. Thanks. Just going with the flow. So 8.5% of debt versus 25% of the wealth. Probably best for England if its quits. Then we can rack up our own debt like 99% of Western democracies. I'm happy to argue and discuss properly . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 UK wealth in assets is 11.1 trillion. Now even at a straight swap of 8.5 % versus 8.5% of national debt which is 2,500 billion That's not accounting for the Oxford studies which showed Scotland disproportionately built the UK wealth 25% . Debt free and assets gained for Scotland is a fair settlement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, AyrJambo said: If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets.. Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being Share of government real estate and resources including equipment In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle Fantasy island 1 hour ago, Australis said: Beat me to it. UK is skint and broken according to the nationalists. They dont know if they are coming or going. I know . It’s laughable 52 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said: I'd say the indy movement is more like the Hibs team Capable of getting into half decent positions but then completely and hilariously screwing up, leaving everyone but themselves roaring with laughter. That’s exactly what I was meaning but he’s twisted it . 32 minutes ago, TallPaul said: Wow what an interesting input. He seems to be channelling the ghost of a previous poster , no long until Blair Drummond will get a mention ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) Big hitter Salmond didn't get the nationalist independence. Big hitter Sturgeon didn't get the nationalists independence. Now we have yousless Yousaf, who wants men pretending to be women into female spaces, and we all have female family and relatives, and has serious problems and jealousy for white people when is he getting this independence. Its like failing to win the league with Sir Alex and Klopp Then waiting for Lee Johnson to do it. Edited April 23 by Australis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, Australis said: Big hitter Salmond didn't get the nationalist independence. Big hitter Sturgeon didn't get the nationalists independence. Now we have yousless Yousaf, who wants men pretending to be women into female spaces, and we all have female family and relatives, and has serious problems and jealousy for white people when is he getting this independence. Incredibly that is one of their priorities . They are actually feeding into the so called “ culture wars “ where’s the war on record homelessness ? Oh yes the housing budget got slashed by 200 million to help with so called green issues . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, AyrJambo said: If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets.. Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being Share of government real estate and resources including equipment In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle Good post. 8 minutes ago, Australis said: Big hitter Salmond didn't get the nationalist independence. Big hitter Sturgeon didn't get the nationalists independence. Now we have yousless Yousaf, who wants men pretending to be women into female spaces, and we all have female family and relatives, and has serious problems and jealousy for white people when is he getting this independence. Its like failing to win the league with Sir Alex and Klopp Then waiting for Lee Johnson to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, TallPaul said: So we get to keep our trees and we get 8.5% of that the UK munitions in exchange for 8.5% of the UK national debt. Sounds like a great deal 🤣 How you are able to come to the conclusions you do from the responses you are afforded is beyond me Have you always been this thick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Good point , Humza just loves to stir the grievance pot though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder and Lightning Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 hours ago, AyrJambo said: If we take a share of the debt then that comes with a share of the assets.. Obviously the immovable real estate here in Scotland, naval bases, airbases, firing ranges, woodland/forestry - any current MOD property in this country Share of real estate abroad so embassies, consulates and the like Share of armed forces equipment - it's the British army not the English army and Scotland is one of only two signatories which brought Britain, the state, into being Share of government real estate and resources including equipment In reality much of this would be negotiated into a cash settlement If it was down to me I would be asking for reparations as well for all the assets stripped out of Scotland over the last three centuries Of course another option would be to take no asset share in return for no debt share I suspect negotiations will settle somewhere in the middle Reparations. Ffs. Scottish lives matter. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 15 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said: Reparations. Ffs. Scottish lives matter. 😂 I know 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunder and Lightning Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Just now, JudyJudyJudy said: I know 😂 He is surely just trolling now. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 6 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said: He is surely just trolling now. 😂 Nah the reparations comment is def something I’d expect from a seperatist . Not only do they want to bring up a union but they even want money from it . Listen if you wanna go it alone , pay your own way ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ked said: UK wealth in assets is 11.1 trillion. Now even at a straight swap of 8.5 % versus 8.5% of national debt which is 2,500 billion That's not accounting for the Oxford studies which showed Scotland disproportionately built the UK wealth 25% . Debt free and assets gained for Scotland is a fair settlement. . Edited April 23 by Japan Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallPaul Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 hours ago, AyrJambo said: How you are able to come to the conclusions you do from the responses you are afforded is beyond me Have you always been this thick? I am employing irony, sir. You are endeavoring to discuss a topic that is entirely fantastical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, Thunder and Lightning said: Reparations. Ffs. Scottish lives matter. 😂 No just a disproportionate contribution to the UK wealth. There is actually no argument from your position other than this kind of pish 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Nah the reparations comment is def something I’d expect from a seperatist . Not only do they want to bring up a union but they even want money from it . Listen if you wanna go it alone , pay your own way ! That's fine. Just stop talking pish about debt. You really are a fud on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ked Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 29 minutes ago, TallPaul said: I am employing irony, sir. You are endeavoring to discuss a topic that is entirely fantastical. But you equated 8.5 % debt with trees . Ayr Jambo v airheid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 9 minutes ago, Ked said: No just a disproportionate contribution to the UK wealth. There is actually no argument from your position other than this kind of pish That's fine. Just stop talking pish about debt. You really are a fud on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 8 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035? Yes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 4 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Good post. We need more good posts IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 5 hours ago, Ked said: Thanks. Just going with the flow. So 8.5% of debt versus 25% of the wealth. Probably best for England if its quits. Then we can rack up our own debt like 99% of Western democracies. I'm happy to argue and discuss properly . 5 hours ago, Ked said: UK wealth in assets is 11.1 trillion. Now even at a straight swap of 8.5 % versus 8.5% of national debt which is 2,500 billion That's not accounting for the Oxford studies which showed Scotland disproportionately built the UK wealth 25% . Debt free and assets gained for Scotland is a fair settlement. A few posts mentioning 8.5% as a figure for debt share/asset share That figure assumes that any share will be calculated based on population share and current population share at that However prior to union the population of Scotland was between 20% and 25% of the population of the British Isles so why not negotiate based on that? Why assume population based share at all? Why not landmass based share? Given that the Scotland was one of only two signatories of the treaty which created the UK why not 50% share? 2 hours ago, TallPaul said: I am employing irony, sir. You are endeavoring to discuss a topic that is entirely fantastical. There was nothing ironic about your post more like a poor attempt at sarcasm A previous post of yours when you asked why Sturgeon kept asking for a referendum and you meant on Scottish independence when the discussion was actually about leaving the EU did provide an opportunity to highlight Sturgeon's lack of comprehension of constitutional issues Ironically however, that was not your intention 3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Nah the reparations comment is def something I’d expect from a seperatist . Not only do they want to bring up a union but they even want money from it . Listen if you wanna go it alone , pay your own way ! Don't know what you mean by "bring up a union" Are you suggesting that when there is a parting of the ways, for instance in a divorce, shared assets should not be evenly distributed? 1 hour ago, Jim_Duncan said: Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035? Not via S30 route no That is dead now after the scare which unionism got in 2014 That will never be allowed to happen again The route now is the assertion of our inalienable right to self-determination enshrined in the Claim of Right via a constitutional convention and pro-independence parties standing on a manifesto commitment that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence and start negotiations Once a settlement has been agreed then a confirmatory referendum to be held in Scotland, by Holyrood, with a franchise that takes some account of nationality and residency - e.g you were born here, one of your parents or grandparents were born here or you have had your main residence here for perhaps 10 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 2 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said: Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035? Not a chance - it's quite safe to book holidays and make plans for a generation or two at least Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallPaul Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 7 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said: Genuinely, does anyone see a second referendum happening by 2035? I believe the general election is a defacto referendum is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 7 hours ago, AyrJambo said: The route now is the assertion of our inalienable right to self-determination enshrined in the Claim of Right via a constitutional convention and pro-independence parties standing on a manifesto commitment that a vote for them is a vote to declare independence and start negotiations So completely ignoring the fact that a majority prob do not want Indy . How’s that in any form democratic ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manaliveits105 Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 Farting in the wind whilst Humza continues to weaken their support every time he opens his gob Glorious ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 37 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So completely ignoring the fact that a majority prob do not want Indy . How’s that in any form democratic ? Which parts of "standing on a manifesto commitment " and "confirmatory referendum" are you not getting Or wilfully ignoring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 (edited) 11 minutes ago, AyrJambo said: Which parts of "standing on a manifesto commitment " and "confirmatory referendum" are you not getting Or wilfully ignoring Aye right . So they won’t get 50 % then . Besides 50% is far too divisive a “ majority well 51 , as we have seen with Brexit , needs to be 60 plus Edited April 24 by JudyJudyJudy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 38 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said: Farting in the wind whilst Humza continues to weaken their support every time he opens his gob Glorious ! Oh I know . It’s like me day dreaming about winning the lottery and what I’ll do with the money ! Feels great doing it but then I wake up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said: Not a chance - it's quite safe to book holidays and make plans for a generation or two at least But a generation of what - a hamster? Since Indy supporters wanted a second ref soon after the first, can only have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallPaul Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So completely ignoring the fact that a majority prob do not want Indy . How’s that in any form democratic ? Will be interesting to see the outcome of the popular vote in the general election. Pro Indy parties v unionist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 minute ago, TallPaul said: Will be interesting to see the outcome of the popular vote in the general election. Pro Indy parties v unionist. Yes it will be a good barometer of how Indy is doing ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrJambo Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 30 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said: Do you reckon any of the major parties are ballsy enough to put forward such a manifesto commitment? The current SNP no, not under their current leadership If they take a pounding at GE and change at the top and start listening to members and the wider independence movement who knows? Alba could yet surprise us all and ISP have a generally more open and radical approach to constitutional issues 23 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Aye right . So they won’t get 50 % then . Besides 50% is far too divisive a “ majority well 51 , as we have seen with Brexit , needs to be 60 plus More scattergun JJJ take a breath now and then!! The requirement for a supermajority in any confirmatory referendum is a valid question as would be the voting franchise, the timing, the campaign funding restrictions (for example no party registered outwith Scotland allowed to campaign), the electoral body with oversight and other questions. All valid and all dbated and decide in Scotland by Scots However it is heartening that you appear to be accepting of the basic premise of a confirmatory referendum and are now just quibbling about some of the mechanics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: So completely ignoring the fact that a majority prob do not want Indy . How’s that in any form democratic ? He can't seem to grasp that the sovereign will of the Scottish people is to tell him and his nationalist buddies to bolt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallPaul Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 23 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Yes it will be a good barometer of how Indy is doing ! I'm sure they will claim loads of pro Indy voted labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 24 minutes ago, TallPaul said: Will be interesting to see the outcome of the popular vote in the general election. Pro Indy parties v unionist. 22 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Yes it will be a good barometer of how Indy is doing ! As has been mentioned previously in this thread, or perhaps on the Labour thread(?), if polls are to be believed you see a reduction in support for the SNP, yet support for independence remains consistent. So whilst an SNP collapse at the Westminster GE will be seen as a decline in support for independence, it may not actually be reflective of the real position. What it does do is show that the "de facto" referendum tactic is cobblers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 41 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said: Aye right . So they won’t get 50 % then . Besides 50% is far too divisive a “ majority well 51 , as we have seen with Brexit , needs to be 60 plus But 55% is ok? Supermajority has to work both ways, surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueRiver Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 minute ago, Boris said: As has been mentioned previously in this thread, or perhaps on the Labour thread(?), if polls are to be believed you see a reduction in support for the SNP, yet support for independence remains consistent. So whilst an SNP collapse at the Westminster GE will be seen as a decline in support for independence, it may not actually be reflective of the real position. What it does do is show that the "de facto" referendum tactic is cobblers. Labour won't offer a referendum though and campaign on a unionist platform. We'll see where support goes once the Tories are out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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