Train Fares Going Up

[winningways]

Train fares going up again.As someone who uses the train occasionally this does not make me want to leave the car at home more often.

 

Train fares in Scotland to rise 4.2% next year in 'bonkers' move

Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:52:44 GMT

 

 

Train fares in Scotland will rise by 4.2% next year in a move branded "bonkers" by unions.

 

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) said the increases come at a time of staff and service cuts, and officials insist that the extra money will go into the pockets of private shareholders rather than on improving services.

 

RMT is staging protests throughout the UK alongside The Transport Salaried Staffs' Association, The Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen, Unite and the Trades Union Congress, which includes action at Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley stations.

[Generic Username]

So that'll be a peak single ticket from Glasgow to Edinburgh costing about ?13.50 now. It's only about a 60p difference but paying nearly ?30 for a return journey there and back is outrageous. You can get return tickets to Manchester for that!

[southside1874]

Train companies currently get over ?5bn in government subsidies.

[Tommy Wiseau]

I honestly don't see how they can justify those prices. It's already 21 quid for a return to Glasgow, when the bus is a tenner and driving plus parking is about ?14 in my car. Adding in the huge subsidies they get and I wonder; are the railroads really that expensive to run?

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Ignore my stupidaty ,but will these rises effect my trips down South?

[Gershwin]

Ignore my stupidaty ,but will these rises effect my trips down South?

 

Aye. Train prices are going up even more in the South!!!

 

*****.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Aye. Train prices are going up even more in the South!!!

 

*****.

Feck it im getting a 16-25 railcard

[IronJambo]

Ignore my stupidaty ,but will these rises effect my trips down South?

 

They're going up an extra percent on top of that down here so yes, even more so. I hasten to add, I work for first great western

[Floyd]

Ignore my stupidaty ,but will these rises effect my trips down South?

 

Yup! News earlier said that up here the formula is inflation +1 while down south it's inflation +3.

 

Utter pish for a service that is consistently late, can't run in the rain and is guaranteed to have signalling problems at least once every 4 to 6 weeks meaning I'm either late for work or late for getting my daughter at nursery and they still have the cheek to put the prices up??

 

Shambles!!!

[CavySlaveJambo]

6.2% on Cross Border/English routes. And these are just the regulated fares.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

So me getting a 1/3 off will atleast help a wee bit lol

[southside1874]

I honestly don't see how they can justify those prices. It's already 21 quid for a return to Glasgow, when the bus is a tenner and driving plus parking is about ?14 in my car. Adding in the huge subsidies they get and I wonder; are the railroads really that expensive to run?

No, they are not that expensive to run. It's the lack of investment that has made it expensive to run trains on our antiquated lines. We are now investing in new lines and new trains and the proportion of costs reflect the required investment. The new lines and new trains will eventually be able to carry more passengers thus making the routes more economical.

[IronJambo]

Train companies currently get over ?5bn in government subsidies.

 

They also pay stupid money to operate franchises. Have a look at the bidding for the west coast mainline.

[The Gasman]

No, they are not that expensive to run. It's the lack of investment that has made it expensive to run trains on our antiquated lines. We are now investing in new lines and new trains and the proportion of costs reflect the required investment. The new lines and new trains will eventually be able to carry more passengers thus making the routes more economical.

 

The routes will not become more economical, they will become more profitable. The taxpayer is currently subsidising the railways by 75%, and these are commercial companies making profits for their shareholders. That can't be right.

[Bigsmak]

Refuse to use trains due to price. Cheaper to drive even with the price if petrol.

[frankblack]

The routes will not become more economical, they will become more profitable. The taxpayer is currently subsidising the railways by 75%, and these are commercial companies making profits for their shareholders. That can't be right.

 

True.

 

I don't use the trains on a frequent basis, but if I didn't already drive to work I would be considering my options. Apparently there is another two or three years of similar price rises planned.

 

I think that for a lot of people who commute to work there will come a tipping point where it becomes too expensive to commute to work by rail. I know that a couple of my colleagues who commute from Fife have already switched to the bus.

 

I think its time the rail companies took the hit instead of the commuters. Its a similar story to another former nationalised industry - Energy, which is also non-competitive and consumers don't have a choice in what they pay (prices for all the companies go up at the same time but never fall). If there was real competition you would have multiple companies competing for the prime routes e.g. Edinburgh to Glasgow and Fife - Edinburgh. The sad reality is that this industry deserves to be renationalised since its based on a flawed business model spun by the tores when they privatised it.

[IronJambo]

True.

 

I don't use the trains on a frequent basis, but if I didn't already drive to work I would be considering my options. Apparently there is another two or three years of similar price rises planned.

 

I think that for a lot of people who commute to work there will come a tipping point where it becomes too expensive to commute to work by rail. I know that a couple of my colleagues who commute from Fife have already switched to the bus.

 

I think its time the rail companies took the hit instead of the commuters. Its a similar story to another former nationalised industry - Energy, which is also non-competitive and consumers don't have a choice in what they pay (prices for all the companies go up at the same time but never fall). If there was real competition you would have multiple companies competing for the prime routes e.g. Edinburgh to Glasgow and Fife - Edinburgh. The sad reality is that this industry deserves to be renationalised since its based on a flawed business model spun by the tores when they privatised it.

 

Off the top of my head there are over 25 train operating companies so they do have competition. The sad part is that that competition is only for winning franchises and isn't available as its not possible or feasible for companies to share routes. You should also realise that the money the TOCs take on goes into a pot and gets shared around the others when its a case of tickets going through different areas. Eg. The money for a trip from Edinburgh to Manchester will probably be shared between scotrail, trans pennine and northern rail.

[Radio Ga Ga]

How topical, just announced this morning that Virgin have lost their Franchise to run the West Coast Main Line - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19264614

[IMac]

The routes will not become more economical, they will become more profitable. The taxpayer is currently subsidising the railways by 75%, and these are commercial companies making profits for their shareholders. That can't be right.

 

Wrong. it is currently 50:50. My bad... that is for england/wales..... forgot that we live in a bubble...

[IMac]

The problem the we have as the government dont treat the roads and rails the same. we expect the roads to be operational and we dont want to pay a toll to use them but the railways for some reason we need a toll. surely the maintenance of stations and the lines/signals should be paid by central government and only the cost of running the actual train should come from fares...

[frankblack]

The problem the we have as the government dont treat the roads and rails the same. we expect the roads to be operational and we dont want to pay a toll to use them but the railways for some reason we need a toll. surely the maintenance of stations and the lines/signals should be paid by central government and only the cost of running the actual train should come from fares...

 

I thought thats what we currently have after "Railtrack" (or whatever its called now) was renationalised after it became uneconomic for the private sector?

[jambos are go!]

The problem the we have as the government dont treat the roads and rails the same. we expect the roads to be operational and we dont want to pay a toll to use them but the railways for some reason we need a toll. surely the maintenance of stations and the lines/signals should be paid by central government and only the cost of running the actual train should come from fares...

The money raised from the motorist vastly outstrips the amount spent on roads - a fact I've read many time. A huge cash cow for the taxpayer. A day after rail fares were increaased we hear that First Group are paying over ?4billion pounds for the west coastline franchise. That money I suspect will go straight to the Treasury and not to fair reductions. Railway economics are a joke and I heard on TV last night that the average price of a single fare on busy routes is 99% of the cost of a return.

[IronJambo]

The money raised from the motorist vastly outstrips the amount spent on roads - a fact I've read many time. A huge cash cow for the taxpayer. A day after rail fares were increaased we hear that First Group are paying over ?4billion pounds for the west coastline franchise. That money I suspect will go straight to the Treasury and not to fair reductions. Railway economics are a joke and I heard on TV last night that the average price of a single fare on busy routes is 99% of the cost of a return.

 

The figure I've been reading for the west coast mainline is ?7bn. This isn't an upfront fee though, most of it gets paid late on in the franchise.

 

You'll find that many off peak returns are only 10p or so more than an off peak single. It's not the case for peak tickets though, with a return normally being around double the single fare.

[Socrates]

No, they are not that expensive to run. It's the lack of investment that has made it expensive to run trains on our antiquated lines. We are now investing in new lines and new trains and the proportion of costs reflect the required investment. The new lines and new trains will eventually be able to carry more passengers thus making the routes more economical.

I get that we need to invest, but it's not like they're going to cut the prices later on once they've done that, is it?

[Socrates]

Off the top of my head there are over 25 train operating companies so they do have competition. The sad part is that that competition is only for winning franchises and isn't available as its not possible or feasible for companies to share routes. You should also realise that the money the TOCs take on goes into a pot and gets shared around the others when its a case of tickets going through different areas. Eg. The money for a trip from Edinburgh to Manchester will probably be shared between scotrail, trans pennine and northern rail.

You couldn't design a worse system if you tried. Also, not sure why different companies couldn't compete on the same routes (I do get that the idiotic system we have right now doesn't allow it, but then that's one of the many reasons that it's a hopeless system designed for the benefit of the train operating companies and the Treasury) - you get it with airlines, and it makes a big difference to prices when there is actually competition.

[IronJambo]

You couldn't design a worse system if you tried. Also, not sure why different companies couldn't compete on the same routes (I do get that the idiotic system we have right now doesn't allow it, but then that's one of the many reasons that it's a hopeless system designed for the benefit of the train operating companies and the Treasury) - you get it with airlines, and it makes a big difference to prices when there is actually competition.

 

It's mostly down to logistics that more than one TOC doesn't operate exactly the same route. Trains have to live somewhere, staff have to have mess rooms and places to pay money into. Facilities like safes are needed. Some things woukdnt work if you had 20 different companies operating out of one station. There is also only so much track time so competition on the same route would fall down as they'd just be sharing the same slots. Delays are mostly down to signalling, and regardless of the cause, one train going late on a line causes them all to be late. The railway isnt like a road where you can overtake.

 

Prices are also standardised if you ignore advance tickets. I work for first but can sell you a ticket for any journey in the UK, it doesn't matter who operates it. It will also cost the same from me as it will anyone else. No rail operator gets favoured over another with ticketing, and the spoils get shared.

 

It's hard to have real competition when you have to share a whole network. Whilst the railway is privatised it still operates in the same way it would if it wasn't, franchises and branding aside.

[Say What Again]

So that'll be a peak single ticket from Glasgow to Edinburgh costing about ?13.50 now. It's only about a 60p difference but paying nearly ?30 for a return journey there and back is outrageous. You can get return tickets to Manchester for that!

I read this morning (Metro I think) that the price of a 12 month railcard solely between Edinburgh and Glasgow, was now more expensive than one that lets you travel on any train, any distance, anytime, within the whole of Germany.

 

Something like ?3,500

[Generic Username]

I read this morning (Metro I think) that the price of a 12 month railcard solely between Edinburgh and Glasgow, was now more expensive than one that lets you travel on any train, any distance, anytime, within the whole of Germany.

 

Something like ?3,500

 

A season ticket between Glasgow & Edinburgh is currently ?3380. That's unlimited travel between the two places but realistically folk are only going to use it twice a day for 5 days a week.

 

So the hike is about 4.2% which would make that season ticket basically ?3352, which works out at basically ?9 a day, if you were using it every single day.

 

A current peak single ticket between the two places is ?12.90 or ?21.00 for an any time day return. A wee ?4.80 saving there...

 

Take the price of a peak ticket and pump it up by the price hike then it moves to say ?13.45. If you were buying a single tickets for your journey, each way, every day for a year that'd be ?4909.25.

 

All of these figures are ****ing ridiculous for what is a 40 minute train ride. I think I'm going to start getting the bus.

[Socrates]

It's mostly down to logistics that more than one TOC doesn't operate exactly the same route. Trains have to live somewhere, staff have to have mess rooms and places to pay money into. Facilities like safes are needed. Some things woukdnt work if you had 20 different companies operating out of one station. There is also only so much track time so competition on the same route would fall down as they'd just be sharing the same slots. Delays are mostly down to signalling, and regardless of the cause, one train going late on a line causes them all to be late. The railway isnt like a road where you can overtake.

 

Prices are also standardised if you ignore advance tickets. I work for first but can sell you a ticket for any journey in the UK, it doesn't matter who operates it. It will also cost the same from me as it will anyone else. No rail operator gets favoured over another with ticketing, and the spoils get shared.

 

It's hard to have real competition when you have to share a whole network. Whilst the railway is privatised it still operates in the same way it would if it wasn't, franchises and branding aside.

You don't necessarily have to have a free-for-all, but I don't see why there's a need for there to be only one operator for Edinburgh to London, when the airports manage to have six or seven airlines flying the same route, resulting in much more competition. Many of the things that you mention are also issues in that industry and can be overcome.

 

I think you have to either run it as a nationalised industry, as many European countries seem to manage to do, or find a way of properly privatising it. This has to involve different companies competing against each other for passengers, or there is no point in doing it (unless you run a TOC, in which case it's very lucrative).

[The Comedian]

I read this morning (Metro I think) that the price of a 12 month railcard solely between Edinburgh and Glasgow, was now more expensive than one that lets you travel on any train, any distance, anytime, within the whole of Germany.

 

Something like ?3,500

 

It's ?3380 for a Edinburgh - Glasgow season ticket which will increase by ?142 in January. Unlimited travel across the whole of Germany?s 21,000 mile network ?3252.

 

 

Is there anything in Britain today that is world leading or good value for money? We seem to pay too much for everything and recieve a dreadful service or antiquated product.

[Marvin]

Train fares going up again.As someone who uses the train occasionally this does not make me want to leave the car at home more often.

 

Train fares in Scotland to rise 4.2% next year in 'bonkers' move

Tue, 14 Aug 2012 16:52:44 GMT

 

 

Train fares in Scotland will rise by 4.2% next year in a move branded "bonkers" by unions.

 

The National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) said the increases come at a time of staff and service cuts, and officials insist that the extra money will go into the pockets of private shareholders rather than on improving services.

 

RMT is staging protests throughout the UK alongside The Transport Salaried Staffs' Association, The Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen, Unite and the Trades Union Congress, which includes action at Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley stations.

 

 

 

Peeved off at the annoumcement Already wrote a letter complaining to my MP too.

 

Imo its to fund the cross country train route from London to Glasgow that Virgin uses as Branson is to lose his contract.

 

Down here it will be inflation + 3% so we are talking around 7.5% - 8% increase which means my rail fare smashes past the ?96 pcm I currently pay. How the fudge does the powers at be get away with this. So as per with these jokers in Parliament the poor get poorer and the Government's rich coffers get richer.

[IronJambo]

I just want to say that with the news of first taking the west coast I'm delighted as I can now get anywhere for free or for.next to nothing. On that note I don't give a damn that fares are going up

I fully understand the seethe fest, but I feel rather smug.

[doctor jambo]

Surely the sensible thing to do in these tough economic times is to simply remove subsidies from all travel etc and let people pay the real cost of their journey on rail/bus etc for everyone- be they students, pensioners or whatever.

If a mode of transport is too expensive then dont use it- find an alternative

My parents are both pensioners and the amount of "free" stuff they get is incredible- and you know what- they could easily afford to pay for it all.

If the trains are not financially viable, let them go

[frankblack]

It's ?3380 for a Edinburgh - Glasgow season ticket which will increase by ?142 in January. Unlimited travel across the whole of Germany?s 21,000 mile network ?3252.

 

 

Is there anything in Britain today that is world leading or good value for money? We seem to pay too much for everything and recieve a dreadful service or antiquated product.

 

That is the key question here - why is our rail service so expensive and inefficient compared to Germany or other comparable nations to the UK? Something in our system seems to be burning money.

[Generic Username]

?10 return for a bus and they're every 10 minutes.

 

Cash back.

[IMac]

Surely the sensible thing to do in these tough economic times is to simply remove subsidies from all travel etc and let people pay the real cost of their journey on rail/bus etc for everyone- be they students, pensioners or whatever.

If a mode of transport is too expensive then dont use it- find an alternative

My parents are both pensioners and the amount of "free" stuff they get is incredible- and you know what- they could easily afford to pay for it all.

If the trains are not financially viable, let them go

 

ok same goes for the roads electricity gas food... lets pay what things are worth!

[IronJambo]

That is the key question here - why is our rail service so expensive and inefficient compared to Germany or other comparable nations to the UK? Something in our system seems to be burning money.

 

Rail companies spunk crazy money on needless jobs, or at least on jobs they could be paying out a lot less for. I know ticket examiners who are grossing ?50k+ pa. That's more than a train drivers basic wage.

They also give out needless overtime daily. There are train drivers out there CLEARING ?4k pm. Drivers will often get paid 4 hours overtime for an extra hours work because a train cancellation would cost them much much more.

The railway is cushy place to work and if you get the right job the gravy keeps on running.

[doctor jambo]

ok same goes for the roads electricity gas food... lets pay what things are worth!

 

I agree- there is a time for subsidised industries- INCLUDING renewable energy- and it aint now in a double dip depression where a dwindling number of tax payers are paying for absolutely everything going

[benny]

I just want to say that with the news of first taking the west coast I'm delighted as I can now get anywhere for free or for.next to nothing. On that note I don't give a damn that fares are going up

I fully understand the seethe fest, but I feel rather smug.

Ditto but First will lose one of their franchises because of this,hope it is not Scotrail.

[Malcolm Tucker]

?10 return for a bus and they're every 10 minutes.

 

Cash back.

 

 

 

I remember we discussed this not too long ago.

 

?13.50 for a single (no period returns either) is a joke.

 

 

Looks like I'll be making friends with CityLink buses, their horrible smell, and their wonderful WiFi.

 

 

No more luxury rail travel for me.

 

[Marvin]

I remember we discussed this not too long ago.

 

?13.50 for a single (no period returns either) is a joke.

 

 

Looks like I'll be making friends with CityLink buses, their horrible smell, and their wonderful WiFi.

 

 

No more luxury rail travel for me.

 

 

The way things are going I'm going to be getting the bus from January. Just wait and see the bus companies will hike up their fares in full knowledge that the customers will have no choice but to pay or use the overpriced trains

[Matthew Le Tissier]

@IronJambo anychance of any discount codes

[IronJambo]

Ditto but First will lose one of their franchises because of this,hope it is not Scotrail.

 

FGW is up next year so time will tell. Apparently a feasibility study was done and the powers that be were satisfied the group could handle what they had AND the West coast.

 

SJ, sorry bud...no such things exist/ever come my way.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

FGW is up next year so time will tell. Apparently a feasibility study was done and the powers that be were satisfied the group could handle what they had AND the West coast.

 

SJ, sorry bud...no such things exist/ever come my way.

Damn cheers mate

[Paolo]

Trains are dear. First winning the contract from Virgin will not help as they pretty much have the monopoly as they do with buses in many areas. This means a shit and expensive service of West Lothian Buses are to go by. My sympathy is with the passengers but not with Branson who is a welt who always throws his toys out the pram when he does not get his way. His reaction would have been the same regardless of who won, except for him. He always behaves this way when he loses a contract. The lottery is an example, even though Camelot run one of the the most succesful lotteries in the world, yet in that scenario he did think change was good.

[systemx]

Dickie Branson a wee bit upset tonight.

[dobmisterdobster]

Re-nationalisation is not the answer.

The public sector is mainly about reaching quotas in order to create statistics that make politicians look good, instead of actually letting the staff do their job.

"During my time in office we have caught 10% more criminals"

Yeah, petty crimes and speeding offences.

(I don't actually advocate a privatised police force but the point still stands.)

At least the private sector actually has a reason to exist.

[southside1874]

Back to this old debate regarding previous governments investing in roads and folk using oil many years ago. We now have to electrify the lines and we need to move more folk on these electrified lines. Its a similar debate to our trams. We need to invest in a network to move our population to and from work. The current mode of transport can't last and we have to open up avenues for alternatives.

 

Planes wont be able to fly folk from Edinburgh to London as cheap as they can now. We have to cut travel time by rail and we have to move a lot more folk. We also need the trains that travel to europe through the tunnel to be able to use our network.

 

I don't think we should pay more for this but the money has to come from somewhere. An electric bus can't move folk from Edinburgh to London without recharging.

[NewYorkJambo]

So that'll be a peak single ticket from Glasgow to Edinburgh costing about ?13.50 now. It's only about a 60p difference but paying nearly ?30 for a return journey there and back is outrageous. You can get return tickets to Manchester for that!

 

30 quid would be scandalous if true, but it isn't. Return fare is only about 10pence more than a single. This is ridiculous, of course, but still not as ridiculous as 30 quid would be

[Generic Username]

30 quid would be scandalous if true, but it isn't. Return fare is only about 10pence more than a single. This is ridiculous, of course, but still not as ridiculous as 30 quid would be

 

Aye sorry I'm talking about 30 blabs if you were to buy two peak single tickets, which would work out at basically ?27 if the prices do jump up by 4.2%.

 

Return tickets currently sit at ?21 quid so should, in theory, only go up to ?22 but that's still a frankly ridiculous amount of money for what is two 40 minute journeys and is ?12 more than what you'd pay for a bus journey which only takes 20 minutes more.

 

Right now a monthly season ticket for Glasgow to Edinburgh costs more than what I pay for my mortgage.