Coco Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Since vlad came we have seen some class players come and go. Won a couple of trophies, got into the champs league qualifiers, stopped selling talent on the cheap, stayed at tynecastle and have the same debt we had in 2005. Don't get me wrong vlad has made a right arse if things at times and if someone with big pockets stepped up then I'd be delighted but you can hardly bame vlad for pulling the plug on free dish for the club. Let's face it the biggest loser financially in Vlads involvement are vlad and his companies. Also when he took over the debt was still rising so for t to be at the same level as 05 ain't bad IMO. It has been an absolutely horrific financial investment for VR's companies. He has lost an absolutely incredible amount of money. But for us it has been pretty good with 2 cup wins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldcastlerock2012 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Not sure I agree with this. If you add back the transfers fees of players such as CG, PH the club would have a much lower debt. Aye because we would have got ?9m for Gordon under the pieman right enough! He'd have been off to Rangers or Celtic for ?2m if we were lucky. Not being the Old Firm's bitches anymore has been one of the benefits of Vlad's reign. He also influenced other SPL teams who have played hardball with the OF over players more often since Vlad proved you didn't have to sell to the OF at the first offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 We're being slimmed down and knocked into a going concern ready for a sale - if there is actually anyone out there who actually wants to buy us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winston churchill Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Does Vlad still want ?50 million for the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermit the Krog Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think it's a fair point to make that Vlad probably increased the value of the players he inherited. These players would still though have had value and selling them could of helped to reduce our overall debt. Of course. The monies received may have paid for a years rent at Murrayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjl Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It has been an absolutely horrific financial investment for VR's companies. He has lost an absolutely incredible amount of money. But for us it has been pretty good with 2 cup wins! Aye. Basically that's it. Folk saying its no good cos we're back where we started debt wise in 2005 seem to forget the debt wasn't somehow frozen at 24 million, it would have got worse unless we had sold the ground. 7 years later and it's back to the same. I'm happy at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alba gu Brath Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Are you joking? Have you ever seen our accounts? We spend more on wages than we take in through all of the sources you have mentioned. Did you seriously not know that? What? Did I dream that we 'released' 17 players? No wonder Rangers can afford Black if we're still paying him... OP has a point. We have some previously unforseen 'windfalls'. Surely its possible to save a lot and yet spend a little wisely? Say Rudi on a 6 monther? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnjl Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Does Vlad still want ?50 million for the club. I think this is gonna be a classic case of not always getting what you want, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bn jambo Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Sucking helll hearts in debt mad vlad mad vlad, get a ******* grip, 24 million blah blah blah . The debt continues to be cut, the bed weters didn't buy season tickets and are straight on here after a poor performance, by the way we didn't get beaten . We played Shiite and drew we wail not play that bad again this season ffs! Lesson will be learned, were top equal in the league hits are bottom. Chill the suck out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bn jambo Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Flicking predictive testing! !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCrae Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Aye because we would have got ?9m for Gordon under the pieman right enough! He'd have been off to Rangers or Celtic for ?2m if we were lucky. Not being the Old Firm's bitches anymore has been one of the benefits of Vlad's reign. He also influenced other SPL teams who have played hardball with the OF over players more often since Vlad proved you didn't have to sell to the OF at the first offer. Do you think our current squad has players of the same quality as CG or PH? I don't. I don't think on the park we would have had the same success without Vlad. For that we owe him a huge thank you. It has though come at a price.... Off the park we are struggling financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 What? Did I dream that we 'released' 17 players? No wonder Rangers can afford Black if we're still paying him... OP has a point. We have some previously unforseen 'windfalls'. Surely its possible to save a lot and yet spend a little wisely? Say Rudi on a 6 monther? Mate, how can it be put any clearer than this - we're ?24 million in the hole. Any unforeseen windfall we've had barely scratches the surface. Vlad is trying to get the club into a fit state to be sold. Adding more debt to the pile is not going to help us. We'd all love Rudi to come back but unless Vlad or someone else personally finances it, the club cannot afford to and it's not going to happen. Vlad's already said that he's not going to so we'll just have to suck it up and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart McNeill Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 So how can we clear ?12Million debt with all these players and our outgoing being higher than our income. So I guess with all these cuts. Scottish cup winnings and everything me tioned before we should be clearing 12+mil again this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 So how can we clear ?12Million debt with all these players and our outgoing being higher than our income. So I guess with all these cuts. Scottish cup winnings and everything me tioned before we should be clearing 12+mil again this season? What??? We probably won't ever clear in the way that you would pay back your overdraft. Vlad will get the club into a position so that our income is the same or slightly more than our outgoings. He'll also write off some of the debt as debt forgiveness like he has been every season or so. In the meantime, we just have to live within our means, just like you and I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It is possible that this is the strategy though. Perhaps UBIG actually need some cash from Hearts. No players leaving have been replaced - with the only additions this year McGlynn and Jankauskas I think. It might be that as first team player contracts expire they continue to leave ... and there is serious cost cutting of a level which might actually allow debt repayments. The trouble is that we might not be in the SPL by that stage! This is my fear. Most of the current senior squad are out of contract at the end of this season, are they all to be let go? The problem for VR at that point however is that it would have a cataclysmic effect on the clubs income. What then? For me the ideal scenario remains a buyer appearing and VR/Ubig dissapearing from the scene completely. Whether that is likely or not is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart McNeill Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 What??? We probably won't ever clear in the way that you would pay back your overdraft. Vlad will get the club into a position so that our income is the same or slightly more than our outgoings. He'll also write off some of the debt as debt forgiveness like he has been every season or so. In the meantime, we just have to live within our means, just like you and I do. The thing is mate. Most of them sums I've put together make sense, to me anyway. However most of the people on this post obviously think there an accountant jump on the bangwagon and give no reasonable reason on why there wrong and just say I'm being idiotic. All I'm basically saying if Hearts don't get top 6 and fighting for europe and possibly CL. Our 8,000 Season Tickets after a scottish cup win and Europe will drop and vlad will have even less people coming and His debt will just keep getting higher. EDIT : Hearts have achieved a bit without Vlad. Scottish Cup grtting into europe, I mean c'mon when will it actually end? And when do we get the rewards and not him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 The thing is mate. Most of them sums I've put together make sense, to me anyway. However most of the people on this post obviously think there an accountant jump on the bangwagon and give no reasonable reason on why there wrong and just say I'm being idiotic. All I'm basically saying if Hearts don't get top 6 and fighting for europe and possibly CL. Our 8,000 Season Tickets after a scottish cup win and Europe will drop and vlad will have even less people coming and His debt will just keep getting higher. EDIT : Hearts have achieved a bit without Vlad. Scottish Cup grtting into europe, I mean c'mon when will it actually end? And when do we get the rewards and not him? You are correct in that Vlad will need to balance the weight of expectation of the fans along with financial austerity. As Martin was saying, that could be difficult and the dangers are certainly pretty awful. Your last sentence is completely mental. Vlad writes off massive amounts of debt pretty much every season. Some of the debt was his fault but not all. Owning most football clubs is like fixing up a classic car. It'll cost a lot for all of the vintage parts and it's not too economical to run and at the end of the day, you're going to get back less than you have put in over the years. There are exceptions like maybe Man United and Celtic / McCann but Vlad is not getting any rewards from Hearts. He seems to want rid of us and we're costing him money in our present state. Hopefully, he writes off the debt quickly and we manage too survive with some seasoned pro's and the fruits of our youth system. It's easy for you to shout and ball and spend Vlad's money for him, but he's already said that's not going to happen anymore. He's been good for us. You should probably reflect on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 You are correct in that Vlad will need to balance the weight of expectation of the fans along with financial austerity. As Martin was saying, that could be difficult and the dangers are certainly pretty awful. Your last sentence is completely mental. Vlad writes off massive amounts of debt pretty much every season. Some of the debt was his fault but not all. Owning most football clubs is like fixing up a classic car. It'll cost a lot for all of the vintage parts and it's not too economical to run and at the end of the day, you're going to get back less than you have put in over the years. There are exceptions like maybe Man United and Celtic / McCann but Vlad is not getting any rewards from Hearts. He seems to want rid of us and we're costing him money in our present state. Hopefully, he writes off the debt quickly and we manage too survive with some seasoned pro's and the fruits of our youth system. It's easy for you to shout and ball and spend Vlad's money for him, but he's already said that's not going to happen anymore. He's been good for us. You should probably reflect on that. VR has on balance been good for Hearts, he has delivered two Scottish cups and raised the profile of the club. However whilst it's been good, I'm at a stage (and have been for quite a while) whereby I think the club really needs a fresh change of direction under new ownership. For that to happen VR has to realise that his sunk costs bear no influence on the current sale price of the business and the alleged valuation of ?50 million + is utterly ludicrous given the scale of potential profitability (Hearts at best could post a profit of a few hundred thousand in a good year). I've absolutely no idea whether there is any potential new owner out there however, in all likelihood in the current climate...probably not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 VR has on balance been good for Hearts, he has delivered two Scottish cups and raised the profile of the club. However whilst it's been good, I'm at a stage (and have been for quite a while) whereby I think the club really needs a fresh change of direction under new ownership. For that to happen VR has to realise that his sunk costs bear no influence on the current sale price of the business and the alleged valuation of ?50 million + is utterly ludicrous given the scale of potential profitability (Hearts at best could post a profit of a few hundred thousand in a good year). I've absolutely no idea whether there is any potential new owner out there however, in all likelihood in the current climate...probably not. I'm not sure what he was up to with his ?50m chat tbh. I'm sure that when it comes to business, he's not as stupid as that statement would have us believe. I agree, we really would benefit from a change of direction but who on earth is out there to take the financial hit that it would require? The future in terms of club ownership is very unclear at the moment. Who knows what we'll get after Vlad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm not sure what he was up to with his ?50m chat tbh. I'm sure that when it comes to business, he's not as stupid as that statement would have us believe. I agree, we really would benefit from a change of direction but who on earth is out there to take the financial hit that it would require? The future in terms of club ownership is very unclear at the moment. Who knows what we'll get after Vlad... As things stand I think that the club's strategy is still to try to sell the ground. Where that leaves us is even more uncertain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 As things stand I think that the club's strategy is still to try to sell the ground. Where that leaves us is even more uncertain. Why do you think that? Property prices are so low at the moment and who would want to buy it anyway? We may still end up in a new home somewhere on the outskirts of town but I doubt it will be any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Why do you think that? Property prices are so low at the moment and who would want to buy it anyway? We may still end up in a new home somewhere on the outskirts of town but I doubt it will be any time soon. That's the strategy! Was the reason for the loaded 'survey' of the fans and then the announcement that the club want to sell the ground. http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111220/stadium-update-_2241384_2553925 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 As things stand I think that the club's strategy is still to try to sell the ground. Where that leaves us is even more uncertain. Back to square one by the sounds of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 That's the strategy! Was the reason for the loaded 'survey' of the fans and then the announcement that the club want to sell the ground. http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20111220/stadium-update-_2241384_2553925 That seems to have dropped off the radar of late though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 As things stand I think that the club's strategy is still to try to sell the ground. Where that leaves us is even more uncertain. I think there was possibly a time when VR saw the Edinburgh property market as his safety net for his 'investment' in Hearts. The problem for him now is that the Tynecastle land is probably an illiquid asset of which the sale price would be a fraction of it's peak market value. There is no 'out' for VR that doesn't involve him losing the vast majority, if not all of the money he has spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I think there was possibly a time when VR saw the Edinburgh property market as his safety net for his 'investment' in Hearts. The problem for him now is that the Tynecastle land is probably an illiquid asset of which the sale price would be a fraction of it's peak market value. There is no 'out' for VR that doesn't involve him losing the vast majority, if not all of the money he has spent. Correct. I also think that Hearts may be more attractive to buyers if we still have Tynecastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
18scotty74 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 In an act of indulgence towards the OP I would be interested to know which bargain players we would buy with this pocket of ?wealth? we have created? Except from Rudi Skacel of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jambo Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I agree, we really would benefit from a change of direction but who on earth is out there to take the financial hit that it would require? The future in terms of club ownership is very unclear at the moment. Who knows what we'll get after Vlad... It seems to me that the debt causes a massive problem in terms of a sale. There are basically 4 options: 1) New owners pay off the debt. I don't believe anyone is going to step forward with ?24m in cash. 2) Club remains in debt but debt is transferred away from UKIO. This would either require another bank to be willing to take on the debt or a private source (i.e. the new owners) to loan the club ?24m. 3) Club remains in debt and debt stays with UKIO. Why would Romanov hand over control of the club whilst effectively remaining exposed to the debt? 4) Romanov clears debt before selling club. This is clearly the dream scenario, but no indication that Romanov is going to leave, with a parting gift of an injection of ?24m. I think in the short to medium term we are probably stuck with Romanov and he is stuck with us. During this period we will need to accept that the club is expected to at worst break even each season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It seems to me that the debt causes a massive problem in terms of a sale. There are basically 4 options: 1) New owners pay off the debt. I don't believe anyone is going to step forward with ?24m in cash. 2) Club remains in debt but debt is transferred away from UKIO. This would either require another bank to be willing to take on the debt or a private source (i.e. the new owners) to loan the club ?24m. 3) Club remains in debt and debt stays with UKIO. Why would Romanov hand over control of the club whilst effectively remaining exposed to the debt? 4) Romanov clears debt before selling club. This is clearly the dream scenario, but no indication that Romanov is going to leave, with a parting gift of an injection of ?24m. I think in the short to medium term we are probably stuck with Romanov and he is stuck with us. During this period we will need to accept that the club is expected to at worst break even each season. The longer Vlad owns us, the more we may cost him. The fact that he writes chunks of the debt off intermittently and he's trying to get our income and expenditure into line and with his previous statements about getting rid of the club all make perfect sense. If he can write of increments of debt and not add to it or even turn a small profit and get the debt to below ?10m, the club would be way more attractive for other buyers. If someone could pay off the ?10m debt and then pay him something like ?20m for the stadium, players and club, I think he might be persuaded to draw a line under his time with us. The danger is that he may just ask for something ridiculous like ?50m as he previously mentioned. Who has a spare ?30-40m lying around and would like to buy a football club with grand dreams and expectations and a temperamental support who barely even back the club after winning the Scottish cup in the biggest derby of all time? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 The thing is mate. Most of them sums I've put together make sense, to me anyway. However most of the people on this post obviously think there an accountant jump on the bangwagon and give no reasonable reason on why there wrong and just say I'm being idiotic. All I'm basically saying if Hearts don't get top 6 and fighting for europe and possibly CL. Our 8,000 Season Tickets after a scottish cup win and Europe will drop and vlad will have even less people coming and His debt will just keep getting higher. EDIT : Hearts have achieved a bit without Vlad. Scottish Cup grtting into europe, I mean c'mon when will it actually end? And when do we get the rewards and not him? OK a short list of his rewards so far, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Do you think our current squad has players of the same quality as CG or PH? I don't. I don't think on the park we would have had the same success without Vlad. For that we owe him a huge thank you. It has though come at a price.... Off the park we are struggling financially. And pre Vlad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 So I'm sitting on my Balcony in spain after watching us get demolished the 2nd half and scraping a draw. We're clearing needing some players. But 'WE NEED TO SAVEEE' Ofcourse we do. We've sold about 8,500ST at the min of ?240 that'd be 2Mil We've let go of 17 players - if there average wage was 2.5 K that'd be abother 2Mil. Money from thw Scottish cup - 1Mil (according to a couple google searches) Sky deal - (reported to be goven 675k) TV money for europe - ...? i'm not sure about this one sorry. Tickets for europe - 17,000 at ?30 (min) - 510K Merchandise (tops and stuff) - I was at that team photo and there was just under 1,000 people at ?40 for the top and atleast 1,000 for the away and ?13 for the MAGICAL 19th of may reminder - 100K total Anyone else wondering wtf Vlads doing? Figures could be a little off, I do apologise.. So the majority on here decide to take the piss but there's only one guy taking the piss as far as I am concerned and that's Vlad. You make a lot of valid points and the thing I would like to add is why after all these years of moaning about the old firm, press etc does Vlad throw the towel in when he has the best chance ever of making a serious challenge to Celtic. Look at the money he has wasted over the years on imposters when he could have kept two or three of our experienced players and perhaps added a couple more and we could have made a serious challenge. On today's performance and assuming we don't make any new signings we are really going to have a long hard struggle of a season. I know it is early doors but the writing is on the wall so something needs to happen before the transfer window closes and I am not talking about selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 It is possible that this is the strategy though. Perhaps UBIG actually need some cash from Hearts. No players leaving have been replaced - with the only additions this year McGlynn and Jankauskas I think. It might be that as first team player contracts expire they continue to leave ... and there is serious cost cutting of a level which might actually allow debt repayments. The trouble is that we might not be in the SPL by that stage! If UBIG are relying on debt repayments from Hearts they and we are in deep shit. With Hearts turnover, half a million a year would be about as much profit as the club could ever hope on average to generate. Not enough to cover the commercial interest rate on the debt. Even without interest it's a 50 year schedule of debt repayment at best. Fortunately Vlad has consistently demonstrated that he doesn't expect the debt to be repaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 So the majority on here decide to take the piss but there's only one guy taking the piss as far as I am concerned and that's Vlad. You make a lot of valid points and the thing I would like to add is why after all these years of moaning about the old firm, press etc does Vlad throw the towel in when he has the best chance ever of making a serious challenge to Celtic. Look at the money he has wasted over the years on imposters when he could have kept two or three of our experienced players and perhaps added a couple more and we could have made a serious challenge. On today's performance and assuming we don't make any new signings we are really going to have a long hard struggle of a season. I know it is early doors but the writing is on the wall so something needs to happen before the transfer window closes and I am not talking about selling. Why is disagreeing with people "taking the piss"? How much do you think it would take to make a serious challenge to Celtic. Do you think a Skacel and a Beattie would do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCrae Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 And pre Vlad? Of course we were struggling pre Vlad financially. Do you think we are in a stronger financial position now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Of course we were struggling pre Vlad financially. Do you think we are in a stronger financial position now? At the moment, yes we are. Just before Vlad, we'd agreed a deal to sell Tynecastle to Cala and had plans to move toMurrayfield because the pieman had no idea how to either trade his way out of debt, or refinance the debt effectively. Things might change in the future, but at the moment, we're better off than we were the day before Vlad took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 So the majority on here decide to take the piss but there's only one guy taking the piss as far as I am concerned and that's Vlad. You make a lot of valid points and the thing I would like to add is why after all these years of moaning about the old firm, press etc does Vlad throw the towel in when he has the best chance ever of making a serious challenge to Celtic. Look at the money he has wasted over the years on imposters when he could have kept two or three of our experienced players and perhaps added a couple more and we could have made a serious challenge. On today's performance and assuming we don't make any new signings we are really going to have a long hard struggle of a season. I know it is early doors but the writing is on the wall so something needs to happen before the transfer window closes and I am not talking about selling. You seem to be completely out of touch with reality. How much do you think it would cost for us to compete with Celtic over a season? Another 4 or 5 players of the Bednar / Rudi / Skacel / Janny / Takis standard would cost us millions in wages and signing on fees and even then, who'd decide who we'd sign? Vlad can't do it and our manager has no experience of such things. Even if we did gamble with our future, there's no guarantee that we'd beat Celtic or qualify for the group stages of the European trophies and get our money back. We can't afford it as a company and Vlad has already refused to gift us more cash and wants out. Hearts can no more afford to sign players like the above than you could go out and buy a fleet of new sports cars. Maybe you could if you got a bunch of personal loans and every credit card on the market, but sooner or later those people are going to want paying and then you'll be bankrupt. If that happens to Hearts, with no Vlad to bail us out, the alternative is seriously grim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 If UBIG are relying on debt repayments from Hearts they and we are in deep shit. With Hearts turnover, half a million a year would be about as much profit as the club could ever hope on average to generate. Not enough to cover the commercial interest rate on the debt. Even without interest it's a 50 year schedule of debt repayment at best. Fortunately Vlad has consistently demonstrated that he doesn't expect the debt to be repaid. It's pretty clear to everyone that our debt will never be repaid in full. Vlad will have to write it off in chunks until it's small enough that we are sellable as a going concern. Who knows when that will be though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 If UBIG are relying on debt repayments from Hearts they and we are in deep shit. With Hearts turnover, half a million a year would be about as much profit as the club could ever hope on average to generate. Not enough to cover the commercial interest rate on the debt. Even without interest it's a 50 year schedule of debt repayment at best. Fortunately Vlad has consistently demonstrated that he doesn't expect the debt to be repaid. Well it is possible that there are scenarios such as UBIG's own debt covenants stipulating that their major operations have to be non-loss making. Or that a small amount per year actually is the best way they can get some of their huge investment back (perhaps they are trying to protect the value of the Hearts investment on their balance sheet and avoid writing it down to a true economic value). If I remember rightly, the Hearts investment was about a third of their assets when they released a balance sheet (some time ago to be fair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Screw the debt! Just get Skacel signed FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Screw the debt! Just get Skacel signed FFS And do what Rangers done? If we can sign him at all, of course we should. If it were to put our future at risk, then no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Screw the debt! Just get Skacel signed FFS Another student of the David Murray/Craig Whyte School of Football Finance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy_Jambo Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 We will never get another player of Rudi's quality for the little money he'd be after. It's doing my nut in that we can't give him another years contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Another student of the David Murray/Craig Whyte School of Football Finance I get your point but signing him again would hardly be a Tore Andre Flo or Gascoigne type signing would it? No one player will make a big difference against the likes of Liverpool for example but we'd have at least a potential goalscoring threat. The money we make from this Liverpool stuff would more than cover anything Skacel would get, he'd hardly make a dent in it. I think that seems to be the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA55AD Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 We will never get another player of Rudi's quality for the little money he'd be after. It's doing my nut in that we can't give him another years contract. all good stories come to an end and rudi's ending couldnt be any better.Will always be a legend but its time for sombody else to step up wat happens next season or the season after cant rely on him forever.We could always try transplanting his left peg onto robinson or holt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I get your point but signing him again would hardly be a Tore Andre Flo or Gascoigne type signing would it? No one player will make a big difference against the likes of Liverpool for example but we'd have at least a potential goalscoring threat. The money we make from this Liverpool stuff would more than cover anything Skacel would get, he'd hardly make a dent in it. I think that seems to be the point. As you say Rudi is not going to make much of a difference to our chances of progressing against Liverpool, so the income from the Liverpool game, which is already in the bag, doesn't seem to me of much relevance. I don't know what Rudi wants and I don't know what exactly Hearts budget this year looks like. Given the ongoing financial black hole in the last published accounts and the various cash flow difficulties last season, my guess is that things are still pretty dire. I don't think re-signing Rudi is the "no brainer" some seem to assume, much as, from a purely footballing angle, it would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 As you say Rudi is not going to make much of a difference to our chances of progressing against Liverpool, so the income from the Liverpool game, which is already in the bag, doesn't seem to me of much relevance. I don't know what Rudi wants and I don't know what exactly Hearts budget this year looks like. Given the ongoing financial black hole in the last published accounts and the various cash flow difficulties last season, my guess is that things are still pretty dire. I don't think re-signing Rudi is the "no brainer" some seem to assume, much as, from a purely footballing angle, it would be welcome. ....and how nice would it be to get to a point whereby that was our only concern, the footballing performance or lack of from the club. Many on here have made the point that the club needs us more than ever etc, but if all income generated by the club is being poured into a blackhole of debt interest repayments then what is the point? Ultimately as fans, our only interest should be that the team on the park is reflective of the time and effort spent on it, why should we as supporters fork out to pay back some of the negligent financial management inflicted on the club over the past 20 or so years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I swear this forum gets more stupid by the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 ....and how nice would it be to get to a point whereby that was our only concern, the footballing performance or lack of from the club. Many on here have made the point that the club needs us more than ever etc, but if all income generated by the club is being poured into a blackhole of debt interest repayments then what is the point? Ultimately as fans, our only interest should be that the team on the park is reflective of the time and effort spent on it, why should we as supporters fork out to pay back some of the negligent financial management inflicted on the club over the past 20 or so years? If the man wants to rid himself of the burden then he's got to get the debt at the club down to a level that makes the club a realistic prospect for any potential buyer. Income and expenditure have to be levelled and I've got no doubt that another portion of the debt will be written of next year. The question is, will there be a buyer out there when things take shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldcastlerock2012 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 ....and how nice would it be to get to a point whereby that was our only concern, the footballing performance or lack of from the club. Many on here have made the point that the club needs us more than ever etc, but if all income generated by the club is being poured into a blackhole of debt interest repayments then what is the point? Ultimately as fans, our only interest should be that the team on the park is reflective of the time and effort spent on it, why should we as supporters fork out to pay back some of the negligent financial management inflicted on the club over the past 20 or so years? It's not. There is the cost of running the club to take into account, which the club is no doubt ultimately aiming to cover via tickets, merchandise, regular TV contracts, sponsorship deals and other relatively predictable income. Unpredictable bonus income from one-off transfer fees, bumper European nights, cup and other prize money, extra TV money, selling Tynecastle and developing a new ground, etc will I imagine all go straight to bringing the debt down bit by bit until the club is more attractive to buyers. Doing it this way should still ensure we have a relatively strong squad compared to other SPL clubs with fewer paying punters (ie everyone except Celtic right now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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