Sten Guns Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Good wee Hawking documentary that kicks the childish fairytale to touch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL9S3csJGwI&feature=youtube_gdata_player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When you look at the complexity of life, it all points to there being a creator imo. Whether or not its the person mentioned in the bible, I think its stupid to completely dismiss the idea that someone/thing created the different life forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 When you look at the complexity of life, it all points to there being a creator imo. Whether or not its the person mentioned in the bible, I think its stupid to completely dismiss the idea that someone/thing created the different life forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When you look at the complexity of life, it all points to there being a creator imo. Whether or not its the person mentioned in the bible, I think its stupid to completely dismiss the idea that someone/thing created the different life forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When you look at the complexity of life, it all points to there being a creator imo. Whether or not its the person mentioned in the bible, I think its stupid to completely dismiss the idea that someone/thing created the different life forms. I agree Billions of years of incremental evolution and random mutation is a far more ridiculous notion that a big man who thought up, designed and made everything and who lives in the clouds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When you look at the complexity of life, it all points to there being a creator imo. Whether or not its the person mentioned in the bible, I think its stupid to completely dismiss the idea that someone/thing created the different life forms. Exactly. The universe came from god. And god came from super-god. And super-god came from turtle-man, who in turn came from the great armadillo of tranquility. It's all here in this pamphlet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If there isn't a God, how do you explain the Bible exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheiky Baby Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If there isn't a God, how do you explain the Bible exactly? Only one word needed. Control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Uh oh. Here comes another thread of shouty, self-congratulatory atheists shoving their trendy views down our throats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted March 29, 2012 Author Share Posted March 29, 2012 If there isn't a God, how do you explain the Bible exactly? :'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Uh oh. Here comes another thread of shouty, self-congratulatory atheists shoving their trendy views down our throats... Good input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Only one word needed. Control. Control of whom, by whom and in what way? Before you answer, you may want to consider all the run-ins and persecution various Christian denominations have endured with/by political leadership over the years. If it's about control, it seems a pretty bizarre way to go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creepy Lurker Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Only one word needed. Control. Poor argument; God doesn't need a book to control anyone as he's already omnipotent anyway. He also wouldn't want to control us as he loves us too much. So now that I've dealt with that argument, how do you explain the Bible exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Good input. No more or less so than the other posts in this thread. It's just that they agree with you, while I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambobroch Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If there isn't a God, how do you explain the Bible exactly? It's, er, a book. Written by humans, in a bid to set down some rules and general practices for living life that would make sense to a largely illiterate peasant population, in the form of nice wee, easy to remember stories. Or it's the divine word of an omniscient, omni-present deity that lives in the sky and has the power to create the universe but still won't feed starving African babies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Herbertson Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I like David Hume's take on it. Basically we have no proof that God created the Universe but if it was a God for all we know it could have been done by a bumbling apprentice mocked by his betters. He points out that we only have our own experience of the universe and none of that experience relates to the making of universes. Needless to say in his day he wasn't too popular with the church and that probably explains why they made that fat statue of him on the Royal Mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 The well thought out and resonable JKB replies lead to such healthy debate. My opinion doesn't sit on either side of the fence to be honest. Sometimes I can see how religious people form their views and other times it doesn't make sense at all. Quite simply, there are some questions that are far too big to be answered. I don't understand why people have to be so dogmatic about these matters when clearly no-one knows for sure either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsmak Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When you look at the complexity of life, it all points to there being a creator imo. Whether or not its the person mentioned in the bible, I think its stupid to completely dismiss the idea that someone/thing created the different life forms. I am dismissing it. Religion is there to gap fill knowledge. As we grow as a species we learn more and the gaps shrink. Soon, (maybe not in our lifetimes) most of the gaps will be filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 No more or less so than the other posts in this thread. It's just that they agree with you, while I don't. Actually it is. Every other post has made a genuine attempt to interact with the issue. Yours is just an ad hominem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheiky Baby Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Poor argument; God doesn't need a book to control anyone as he's already omnipotent anyway. He also wouldn't want to control us as he loves us too much. So now that I've dealt with that argument, how do you explain the Bible exactly? yeah you clearly have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Control of whom, by whom and in what way? Before you answer, you may want to consider all the run-ins and persecution various Christian denominations have endured with/by political leadership over the years. If it's about control, it seems a pretty bizarre way to go about it. No it isnt. Its a genius approach. Dress up enforcing your views and beliefs on a less intelligent bovine group by dressing up your doctrine as benevolent, all-powerful, UNEXPLAINABLE truth....throw in some good moral guidance, socially sensible stories and in the end tell people if they dont do it, they will be punished after they die. Again, not something that can be proved (nor disproved) as its all fantasy. Enough rich and sensible people promote it....the less intelligent buy into it...get scared and live thier lives as they are told. The church then tells people to pay them...or donate....of course, not donating would be the bad thing to do.... I mean, its up to you, BUT YOU ARE CONSTANTLY BEING JUDGED.....but still, its up to you.... So people cough up, to be doing the right thing...because they are scared....and because they wonder, what if i dont?!?! But worse, they begin to follow those that CLAIM to have a closer connection to the source of the stories in the book.... Now you have a situation where those that lead control those that follow....through fear and rules that are MADE UP and cannot be disproven.... Pretty clever if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Cynisism is all very well - however the sum total of human knowledge of what there is out there in the Universe is probably minscule really. I wonder if this particular spieces will ever really have the answer to that particular question. I somehow doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 No it isnt. Its a genius approach. Dress up enforcing your views and beliefs on a less intelligent bovine group by dressing up your doctrine as benevolent, all-powerful, UNEXPLAINABLE truth....throw in some good moral guidance, socially sensible stories and in the end tell people if they dont do it, they will be punished after they die. Again, not something that can be proved (nor disproved) as its all fantasy. Enough rich and sensible people promote it....the less intelligent buy into it...get scared and live thier lives as they are told. The church then tells people to pay them...or donate....of course, not donating would be the bad thing to do.... I mean, its up to you, BUT YOU ARE CONSTANTLY BEING JUDGED.....but still, its up to you.... So people cough up, to be doing the right thing...because they are scared....and because they wonder, what if i dont?!?! But worse, they begin to follow those that CLAIM to have a closer connection to the source of the stories in the book.... Now you have a situation where those that lead control those that follow....through fear and rules that are MADE UP and cannot be disproven.... Pretty clever if you ask me. You're missing the point. Who made it up, and how are they benefitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheiky Baby Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Control of whom, by whom and in what way? Before you answer, you may want to consider all the run-ins and persecution various Christian denominations have endured with/by political leadership over the years. If it's about control, it seems a pretty bizarre way to go about it. To put it in a child like way (the only way religious types can understand it). You can't kill that guy. Yes I can. Years later... You can't kill that guy. Yes I can. The big hairy man in the clouds will send you to hell. OK I will not kill that guy As religion has become larger individuals have now turned that on it's head and now kill for the sky fairy FFS! I can understand why religion exists, the uneducated thrive on hearing fairy tales about some guy who will 'listen to them' via prayer. The fact it's bigger in poorer countries explains a lot. What ever has happened whether it's evolution or something we can't comprehend, it's certainly not any of the laughable religions man has ever created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You're missing the point. Who made it up, and how are they benefitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 You're missing the point. Who made it up, and how are they benefitting? No, im not. The wealthy and influential made it up - possibly with good intentions, but somehwere along the line it became the tool of those who wanted to impose thier will and belief on others. It became a tool to control people....take thier money...make them fight for you....all based on the unprovable guilt that they would be punished by someone else if they didn't. Do you have any idea how much money and capital the church has? How many people it can speak to and influence? The role of the church in (medieval) politics and still today etc? Why should this be so? Even more so hunderd of years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Poor argument; God doesn't need a book to control anyone as he's already omnipotent anyway. He also wouldn't want to control us as he loves us too much. So now that I've dealt with that argument, how do you explain the Bible exactly? It's just a book mate wether you take it as gospel or not is up to the individual. Have you read or been told some of the stuff in it from the Old Testement ie burning bush and all that,it might of happened but then again he might have been out his nut on a cactus when he seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 No, im not. The wealthy and influential made it up - possibly with good intentions, but somehwere along the line it became the tool of those who wanted to impose thier will and belief on others. It became a tool to control people....take thier money...make them fight for you....all based on the unprovable guilt that they would be punished by someone else if they didn't. Do you have any idea how much money and capital the church has? How many people it can speak to and influence? The role of the church in (medieval) politics and still today etc? Why should this be so? Even more so hunderd of years ago. Most of the people responsible for starting Christianity were poor, and many of them died for it. Certainly an awful lot of them were imprisoned and persecuted by the government of the time. How does this square into your theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmondo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 It's, er, a book. Written by humans, in a bid to set down some rules and general practices for living life that would make sense to a largely illiterate peasant population, in the form of nice wee, easy to remember stories. Or it's the divine word of an omniscient, omni-present deity that lives in the sky and has the power to create the universe but still won't feed starving African babies. Thats the one ^^^^ If people are taken in by religion fair enough, its the ones that ram it down your throat in a matter of fact way that bug me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Poor argument; God doesn't need a book to control anyone as he's already omnipotent anyway. He also wouldn't want to control us as he loves us too much. So now that I've dealt with that argument, how do you explain the Bible exactly? Your original point was "if there isnt a god...". You can't then respond back to somebody by saying, "ah, but why would god do that..." if your scenario posits that there is no god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmondo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Dinosaur's and the Bible, did they ever meet ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Most of the people responsible for starting Christianity were poor, and many of them died for it. Certainly an awful lot of them were imprisoned and persecuted by the government of the time. How does this square into your theory? Of course most of the people died etc....the rich ones telling them what to do didnt though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 When you look at the complexity of life, it all points to there being a creator imo. Whether or not its the person mentioned in the bible, I think its stupid to completely dismiss the idea that someone/thing created the different life forms. Who created the creator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bolton Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Of course most of the people died etc....the rich ones telling them what to do didnt though. So who were the rich people then? Sounds like a bit of a mental conspiracy theory to me. As for churches being rich, that's only true of certain denominations. Most churches get by on donations from their members/fundraising. Churches should never be cash rich, and most are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 yeah you clearly have... Priceless wasn't it? He must be trolling. Surely to ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Andrew Denton: ?When you see this sort of stuff, do you ever get a sense of God?s pattern?? Sir David Attenborough: ?Well, if you ask?about that, then you see remarkable things like that earwig and you also see all very beautiful things like hummingbirds, orchids, and so on. But you also ought to think of the other, less attractive things. You ought to think of tapeworms. ?You ought to think of ? well, think of a parasitic worm that lives only in the eyeballs of human beings, boring its way through them, in West Africa, for example, where it's common, turning people blind. ?So if you say, ?I believe that God designed and created and brought into existence every single species that exists,? then you've also got to say, ?Well, he, at some stage, decided to bring into existence a worm that's going to turn people blind.? Now, I find that very difficult to reconcile with notions about a merciful God. ?And I certainly find it difficult to believe that a God ? superhuman, supreme power ? would actually do that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 stephen knows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKOS4I6pUuY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Im not religious but it would nice to think there is something else afterlife as for people who are then if it helps them it can't really be a bad thing.I do like asking religious people(mostly my father in law)the type of question the op has though after a few drinks as I don't think I have ever had anyone be able to give any decent answers.The wife usually has to tell me to stop after a while as she can see its tormenting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 We'd have spotted the design studios, admin blocks, construction workers, by now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Rom?n Riquelme Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 I think all this thread goes to show is that in your face atheists are every bit as annoying as in your face religious people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambobroch Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 We'd have spotted the design studios, admin blocks, construction workers, by now ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbNtlS69HhU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If there isn't a God, how do you explain the Bible exactly? Same as you can expalin any work of literature or news. Someone has written down what they have been told. Just because someone has written something down doesn't mean that it is true. Uh oh. Here comes another thread of shouty, self-congratulatory atheists shoving their trendy views down our throats... As opposed to those peace and love christians who shoved their swords down the throats of anyone who didn't agree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 So who were the rich people then? Sounds like a bit of a mental conspiracy theory to me. As for churches being rich, that's only true of certain denominations. Most churches get by on donations from their members/fundraising. Churches should never be cash rich, and most are not. That is very naive of you. Perhaps now, with the splintering of christianity, but when it was all Rome for the Western church? The place was minted! Still is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Most of the people responsible for starting Christianity were poor, and many of them died for it. Certainly an awful lot of them were imprisoned and persecuted by the government of the time. How does this square into your theory? Depends whatyou believe Michael. For example, Jesus was royalty. Was the wedding at Cannae his own betrothal to Mary Magdalene? But from the point of view of the Christian Church, it may well have started humbly, but it certainly made the Forbes Lists in latter Roman times. Imperial endorsement goes a long way! The other thing I'll mention is that if thereis a God, why all the various religions? And then why all the sects withing specific religions? Why no singing from the same hymn sheet? If you pardon the pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanes de Silentio Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 God didn't create anything - there is no 'God'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazmo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcy40pvGIGQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 If god created us in his image, why did he wait a skazillion years after he created the Earth to put us on it? How come we share a common ancestor with orangutans that lived 14-16 million years ago? It's all very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizmo Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Uh oh. Here comes another thread of shouty, self-congratulatory atheists shoving their trendy views down our throats... Since no one has actually posted in the manner you state, yet, you are doing the classic passive aggressive technique of the theist by denouncing your opponent for something they aren't even guilty of, so that you have already turned the argument into an ad hominem one. That couldnt possibly be because your arguments don't stand up, could it...... Incidentally, there is nothing 'trendy' about atheism. It is simply the absence of belief. Nothing more, nothing less. When it comes to Zeus, Buddha, Altjira, Tabaldak, Janus, Shiva etc etc you too are in a state of atheism. One presumes you have studied all the major religions and Gods that are worshipped on planet earth to ensure you have picked the correct 'creator'? Surely a decision of such magnitude is one that no sane person would just leave to an accident of birth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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