Top Referees Quitting (NHC)

[Deevers]

Well it's all kicked off now with the Grade 1 Referees. Looks like the regimes run by MacVicar, Dallas. and now Fleming are being well and truely called into question. A clear out at the top with Referees is well overdue - some of them just now are just dreadful. What's far more needed is a clear out at the SFA of those who have been responsible for the huge dip in standards.

 

 

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/03/16/shock-for-sfa-bosses-at-top-ref-steve-conroy-quits-with-fellow-high-profile-officials-set-to-follow-suit-86908-23790121/

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Its just not the same being a referee anymore.

 

Now that the "brown envelopes" have stopped being handed over down at Ibrox.

 

Coincidence ??

[Bozi]

Conroy and top ref used in the same sentence? Is it any wonder people think the daily record is a joke of a newspaper

[Coco]

Well it's all kicked off now with the Grade 1 Referees. Looks like the regimes run by MacVicar, Dallas. and now Fleming are being well and truely called into question. A clear out at the top with Referees is well overdue - some of them just now are just dreadful. What's far more needed is a clear out at the SFA of those who have been responsible for the huge dip in standards.

 

 

 

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/2012/03/16/shock-for-sfa-bosses-at-top-ref-steve-conroy-quits-with-fellow-high-profile-officials-set-to-follow-suit-86908-23790121/

 

That's a shame. I think that the likes of Conroy had been improving with experience.

 

MacVicar was a total joke as a referee, it is no surprise that his refs regime has been a disaster.

[Craig_]

Or maybe one of their revenue streams has been cut off?!

[Boab Mugabe]

[mahgrassyshoes]

Conroy is a tosser. Not bad news at all. Interesting to hear about in house rules, Not surprising, but interesting.

[Paolo]

Brines next, please.

[Boris]

Conroy won?t officiate at any senior level in Scotland but will be on the list for the Paralympics in London in September.

 

 

Good to see that the visually impaired can officiate at the paralympics too.

[Jambof3tornado]

Smells a funny colour!!!

[7628mm]

Or maybe one of their revenue streams has been cut off?!

 

Rats leaving the sinking ship perhaps.

 

far be it from me to suggest that "some" Scottish referees are on the take, but it strikes me that some are getting out pronto before the excrement really hits the fan.

 

House of cards

[Socrates]

Good to see that the visually impaired can officiate at the paralympics too.

To be fair to the SFA, they have an excellent record of not only allowing the visually impaired to officiate, but also the mentally and morally impaired too.

[heartsfc_fan]

Brines and Collum next please

[Deevers]

To be fair to the SFA, they have an excellent record of not only allowing the visually impaired to officiate, but also the mentally and morally impaired too.

I wonder if that moral impairment will stretch to promoting Hugh Dallas's son, who is currently a category 2 Referee doing Junior Matches, for the start of next season. Some of my mates who follow the Junior game tell me that he's a complete nightmare. If that is the case he should fit in pretty well with most of the rest of the current crop of top whistlers.

[Chester™]

Brines next, please.

 

IIRC, he's off at the end of the season.

 

I wonder if that moral impairment will stretch to promoting Hugh Dallas's son, who is currently a category 2 Referee doing Junior Matches, for the start of next season. Some of my mates who follow the Junior game tell me that he's a complete nightmare. If that is the case he should fit in pretty well with most of the rest of the current crop of top whistlers.

 

From what I've heard, that is one of the main reasons why many refs are a bit peeved (that he was fast tracked). I'm sure they will reveal all the other reasons in due course.

 

As for Conroy, delighted he's away. I've always thought he was a terrible ref.

[Deevers]

IIRC, he's off at the end of the season.

 

 

 

From what I've heard, that is one of the main reasons why many refs are a bit peeved (that he was fast tracked). I'm sure they will reveal all the other reasons in due course.

 

As for Conroy, delighted he's away. I've always thought he was a terrible ref.

Certainly the story I've heard as well - with Fleming still in post at the SFA no doubt Dallas still has some clout in there, so watch this space!!

 

And, yes you are right about Conroy - I always suspected that he had the hump with us. Don't know if it went back to that day in Aberdeen when he sent off Larry. I've never seen him have a reasonable game in games he's handled involving us either at home or away.

[Chester™]

Certainly the story I've heard as well - with Fleming still in post at the SFA no doubt Dallas still has some clout in there, so watch this space!!

 

And, yes you are right about Conroy - I always suspected that he had the hump with us. Don't know if it went back to that day in Aberdeen when he sent off Larry. I've never seen him have a reasonable game in games he's handled involving us either at home or away.

 

Absolutely he does. Promote yer pals and leave the ones who are actually decent stuck in Cat 3.

 

Its not games he's reffed with us. I think Conroy is terrible across the board. Speaking to pals who support other teams, the general view is he is humpty.

[Shaggy2]

Refereeing is almost impossible these days so although I'm very much in the minority (to the extent of being all alone possibly) they have my sympathy.

 

It remains my opinion that the ONLY person on that park not willing to cheat is the ref and now that every decision is scrutinised at 1/16 speed or paused altogether and replayed from umpteen angles the poor ref has no chance.

 

I'm not saying there aren't bad refs - I'm still raging that poor refereeing from O'Reilly and poor work from both his linesmen mean I'm having to take a night off on Wednesday - but I'm sure it was incompetence rather than cheating and even the good ones get hung out to dry almost every week for some MISTAKE (all honest errors, surely?) or another.

 

Technology must be embraced and harsher punishments for cheating players meted out. Bring pro game punishments in line with what amateurs get and give them bans in months/years, that would sort them!

 

Edit: if true what folks are saying, the fast tracking is a complete joke and a major reason there is so much shite in there.

[Das Root]

That article just screams out that we need professional referees who are full-time. If the current lot can't be arsed with training then they need binned and replaced.

[Smoked-Glass]

they should have got rid of john underhill after his one and only derby match. 2-0 hibs to end our unbeaten run and underpants was shcoking that day.

 

I still say that'st he worst 90 min display ive seen by a ref, but the andy davis is the worst incident.

[Deevers]

That article just screams out that we need professional referees who are full-time. If the current lot can't be arsed with training then they need binned and replaced.

 

 

Don't know if that's really the answer - maybe a longer apprenticeship in the juniors is needed. Quite a few on the list have spent as little as two seasons doing juniors before they've been promoted and their lack of experiance and man management skills is there for all to see. Collum is a glaring example of this - he was Dallas's blue eyed boy and went up through the grades like a rocket.

[Nelly Terraces]

We had a lad up from London the weekend of the St J's cup game and he came along. He described Craig Thomson's refereeing performance that day as "INCREDIBLE, JUST INCREDIBLE" Incredibly bad that is. He honestly couldn't believe how bad it was, and stated he'd never seen a worse 90 mins of officiating in his puff - and that he was equally bad for both sides (I have to agree with him there). When he was informed that Mr Thomson was in fact Scotland's top ref, he almost spat his beer out across the Diggers floor. That sums it up for me, a totally objective viewpoint from someone telling it how it is. If they ref'd games like that in England there would be uproar. They're shockingly bad up here.

[Das Root]

If they are pro they can be held to account, retrained if needed and binned if useless. The amateur status always comes with the excuse of allowable mistakes and lack of pressure in case they walk.

 

Plenty if folk out there would jump at the chance of full-time work and I would wager you could salary them at a lower amount than money per match.

[jamie1874]

I watch quite a bit of junior football and the batch that is coming up are worse than those around at the minute.

 

If we though Dallas was bad wait till you see his son.

[Coco]

Don't know if that's really the answer - maybe a longer apprenticeship in the juniors is needed. Quite a few on the list have spent as little as two seasons doing juniors before they've been promoted and their lack of experiance and man management skills is there for all to see. Collum is a glaring example of this - he was Dallas's blue eyed boy and went up through the grades like a rocket.

 

Agree with this. It takes years for a ref to develop and virtually all the fast track ones come through with a school master type of attitude.

 

It is only in later years when they have more experience and relax and become better refs ... as Conroy has done in my opinion.

[belly]

If they are pro they can be held to account, retrained if needed and binned if useless. The amateur status always comes with the excuse of allowable mistakes and lack of pressure in case they walk.

 

Plenty if folk out there would jump at the chance of full-time work and I would wager you could salary them at a lower amount than money per match.

But they are not amateur as you put it, some of them are getting paid upto ?1000 to oficiate at a game, what they are, are part time.

What we need is Foreign unbiased referees to make our league a fairer league, and that's never going to happen.

[Deevers]

We had a lad up from London the weekend of the St J's cup game and he came along. He described Craig Thomson's refereeing performance that day as "INCREDIBLE, JUST INCREDIBLE" Incredibly bad that is. He honestly couldn't believe how bad it was, and stated he'd never seen a worse 90 mins of officiating in his puff - and that he was equally bad for both sides (I have to agree with him there). When he was informed that Mr Thomson was in fact Scotland's top ref, he almost spat his beer out across the Diggers floor. That sums it up for me, a totally objective viewpoint from someone telling it how it is. If they ref'd games like that in England there would be uproar. They're shockingly bad up here.

I think that they kid themselves on a wee bit down south - there are some really shockingly bad referees officiating in both the EPL and the Championship. It's not a problem that is unique to Scotland.

 

What's need up here is an end to the patronage that goes on. Take a look at where most of the Grade 1 Officials come from and it's easy to see why there is such a problem with their crediblity. More than half are from the Glasgow Area. There's the root of the problem here.

[milky_26]

But they are not amateur as you put it, some of them are getting paid upto ?1000 to oficiate at a game, what they are, are part time.

What we need is Foreign unbiased referees to make our league a fairer league, and that's never going to happen.

foreign refs would be good, but unrealistic IMO. What i would like to see is the head of reffing in scotland being a proper former ref someone like dermot gallagher overseeing scottish refs would help thwem improve

 

edit: what i would like to see as well is for refs to declare who they support and to what extent ie former season ticket holder

[super_vlad]

That article just screams out that we need professional referees who are full-time. If the current lot can't be arsed with training then they need binned and replaced.

 

Totally agree! Finally being pulled up for their constant mistakes and are now throwing the dummy out! Too much training? These ***** are on 1000 pound a game, they can do 2-3 games a weekend and still go home to comfy day jobs? WTF?

[7628mm]

But they are not amateur as you put it, some of them are getting paid upto ?1000 to oficiate at a game, what they are, are part time.

What we need is Foreign unbiased referees to make our league a fairer league, and that's never going to happen.

 

Another ?1000-1500 per game dependant on which team Celtic or Rangers you happen to be reffing and this does not come from the SFA but "other" sources.

 

Well you never know it might be going on

[Groatallar]

Just been looking at some of the comments on the DR article and we have the usual ahem balanced Celtic view. FFS what an erse!

 

It was the night meetings that most of the games where decided on anyway, and the old genuine mistake most of the time only helped one team, and we (Celtic) complained about it, now we have a level playing field and everyone is happy, well accept the ones who are in court every day being investigated by Police,SPL/SFA EUFA,HMRC, and the list goes on, I wonder what little sniper will jump out today, no wonder Rangers fans where the only club to back the old refs, strike it suited them, cheats and liars deserve all they get, and the people who ran the club done this not the fans, BUT they will be the ones that pay the price, all theses secret organisations are the ones that put them where they are right now, I am not saying that all secret organisations are bad, BUT the way Scottish Football used them WAS.

[colinmaroon]

That's a shame. I think that the likes of Conroy had been improving with experience.

 

MacVicar was a total joke as a referee, it is no surprise that his refs regime has been a disaster.

 

 

An understatement, in fact.

 

He was as dire as dire can be and, it doesn't surprise me that Dallas has caused so many problems. He was the archetypal SAF Apparatchik!

 

And, as said previously, the "change" in Rangers status will ripple through to some of thereferees.

 

 

ROLL ON BRINES BEING THE NEXT TO GO!

[Chester™]

What's need up here is an end to the patronage that goes on. Take a look at where most of the Grade 1 Officials come from and it's easy to see why there is such a problem with their crediblity. More than half are from the Glasgow Area. There's the root of the problem here.

 

Thats another 'story' I heard. Refs from all around the country, were told to register themselves in Glasgow, regardless of where they were based, if they wanted a chance to be promoted. If not, next to no chance.

 

The poster who said the next lot coming through are quite bad is quite correct. I watch a good bit of East of Scotland games and the standard, save for the odd two, is terrible.

[colinmaroon]

Just been looking at some of the comments on the DR article and we have the usual ahem balanced Celtic view. FFS what an erse!

 

It was the night meetings that most of the games where decided on anyway, and the old genuine mistake most of the time only helped one team, and we (Celtic) complained about it, now we have a level playing field and everyone is happy, well accept the ones who are in court every day being investigated by Police,SPL/SFA EUFA,HMRC, and the list goes on, I wonder what little sniper will jump out today, no wonder Rangers fans where the only club to back the old refs, strike it suited them, cheats and liars deserve all they get, and the people who ran the club done this not the fans, BUT they will be the ones that pay the price, all theses secret organisations are the ones that put them where they are right now, I am not saying that all secret organisations are bad, BUT the way Scottish Football used them WAS.

 

 

Of course, the "Celtic-minded" secret organisations can't be "bad".

 

In sport, there is no place for secret "organisations".

 

The ONLY way to refute the accusations of bias/corruption etc., is to have 100% transparency and accountability to the whole football community - not a few blazers meeting behinfd closed doors.

[robbo27]

We had a lad up from London the weekend of the St J's cup game and he came along. He described Craig Thomson's refereeing performance that day as "INCREDIBLE, JUST INCREDIBLE" Incredibly bad that is. He honestly couldn't believe how bad it was, and stated he'd never seen a worse 90 mins of officiating in his puff - and that he was equally bad for both sides (I have to agree with him there). When he was informed that Mr Thomson was in fact Scotland's top ref, he almost spat his beer out across the Diggers floor. That sums it up for me, a totally objective viewpoint from someone telling it how it is. If they ref'd games like that in England there would be uproar. They're shockingly bad up here.

 

He has obviously never watched Match of the Day - what a load of trumpets they have down their refereeing! Dowd, Attwell, Jones, Foy etc. If they were to referee up here you would have a riot every week!!

[anders]

Foreign refs isn't the answer - which country has great refs? Even if one country did we'd struggle to import them as they're probably already being used in that country.

The answeris to improve what we have. 2 things are givens - fans & managers will almost never give a ref good marks unless they win so neutral feedback is needed. Secondly people work in fitba cos they're interested in it, so it's natural for them to have favourite teams (& the opposite), there's no point pretending that they won't have cos if they didn't they'd have strolled off on another career path.

So we can't have truly neutral refs or import em but we can import neutral observers to 'mark' the refs - EX-refs from other countries...no baggage but enough expereince. Use them to judge competence & even-handedness. As long as we act on it.

[269miles]

Rats leaving the sinking ship perhaps.

 

far be it from me to suggest that "some" Scottish referees are on the take, but it strikes me that some are getting out pronto before the excrement really hits the fan.

 

House of cards

 

 

Can you name names of those who have departed recently?

 

Cheers.

 

As for bribing refs - there's no need if you've been a ST holder at Ibrox , surely ?

[Don Draper]

Refereeing is almost impossible these days so although I'm very much in the minority (to the extent of being all alone possibly) they have my sympathy.

 

It remains my opinion that the ONLY person on that park not willing to cheat is the ref and now that every decision is scrutinised at 1/16 speed or paused altogether and replayed from umpteen angles the poor ref has no chance.

 

I'm not saying there aren't bad refs - I'm still raging that poor refereeing from O'Reilly and poor work from both his linesmen mean I'm having to take a night off on Wednesday - but I'm sure it was incompetence rather than cheating and even the good ones get hung out to dry almost every week for some MISTAKE (all honest errors, surely?) or another.

 

Technology must be embraced and harsher punishments for cheating players meted out. Bring pro game punishments in line with what amateurs get and give them bans in months/years, that would sort them!

 

 

This is way too sensible a post for a refereeing thread.

[Das Root]

But they are not amateur as you put it, some of them are getting paid upto ?1000 to oficiate at a game, what they are, are part time.

What we need is Foreign unbiased referees to make our league a fairer league, and that's never going to happen.

 

 

Have you ever seen a game here? Total feckin amateurs the lot of 'em

[scots civil war]

which country has great refs?

 

 

spain,la liga

 

 

generally excellent....them and the linesmen

[One flew over]

Just been looking at some of the comments on the DR article and we have the usual ahem balanced Celtic view. FFS what an erse!

 

It was the night meetings that most of the games where decided on anyway, and the old genuine mistake most of the time only helped one team, and we (Celtic) complained about it, now we have a level playing field and everyone is happy, well accept the ones who are in court every day being investigated by Police,SPL/SFA EUFA,HMRC, and the list goes on, I wonder what little sniper will jump out today, no wonder Rangers fans where the only club to back the old refs, strike it suited them, cheats and liars deserve all they get, and the people who ran the club done this not the fans, BUT they will be the ones that pay the price, all theses secret organisations are the ones that put them where they are right now, I am not saying that all secret organisations are bad, BUT the way Scottish Football used them WAS.

 

The joke here is that Conroy is a Celtic supporter.

[Shaggy2]

This is way too sensible a post for a refereeing thread.

Cheers! Probably just as well this thread never appeared around 3pm last Saturday because all common sense had gone after the offside, pull back and handling outside the box offences that were all missed!

[polwarthjambo]

steve conroy has been found out as the welt he is. always arrogant and officious in the games i've seen him referee. no real miss to scottish football there IMO.

[Felix Lighter]

You can't blame Conroy really.If a woefully understrength Rangers are playing in the SPL next season the level of cheating required to enable them to finish top six is going to have to be 'off the radar'.

 

Mike McCurry come on down.

[Floyd]

Don't know if that's really the answer - maybe a longer apprenticeship in the juniors is needed. Quite a few on the list have spent as little as two seasons doing juniors before they've been promoted and their lack of experiance and man management skills is there for all to see. Collum is a glaring example of this - he was Dallas's blue eyed boy and went up through the grades like a rocket.

 

100% This!!!

 

Collum is a welt, He sent me off in an amateur game once for what was at best a booking, got a 3 game ban on top of my 1 game ban for daring to say 'how was that a ******* red, ref?'

 

Think the report he sent in is still kicking around over at my old dear's house. Only recognised it was him when he referred a Sky game and I was in the boozer watching it with a couple of mates from the time.

 

He was hated as ref back then due to the way he behaved and nothing has changed now it seems!!!