Liverpool Fans Blamed for Hillsborough Disaster

[merseyjambo]

No matter what way it's dressed up, the blame in this is not all one way. Anyone who looks at this objectively should recognise that blame should be apportioned 3 ways. The greatest portion should be attributed to the match commander (dukinfield) and his tactics (or lack of). However the charging of gates to jib into games were a well known tactic of fans. Fans from both Liverpool clubs and Man U were known to be the worst. Scousers by their own admission were the worst for it.

 

The fans behaviour in the lead up to the kick off also has to take partial responsibility for what happened.

 

The FA also need to look at their decision to hold the game at Hillsboro considering the previous problems at that ground.

 

Liverpool fans are quite happy to absolve themselves of responsibility and play the victim in this.

 

Nicholas Alt's book the boys from the Mersey makes no bones about the way fans behaved and tried to blag as much as they could.

 

A family member is a ST holder at Anfield. He went to Athens and even he has admitted that Liverpool fans were rushing the gate. Yes some had tickets and were being denied entry, but they didn't care, they jeopardised their own safety and that of others to get in.

 

They also created issues with the stewards and police at the Etihad during the carling cup semi final. Fans stood in the areas for disabled fans and in the aisles. There were about 200 of them doing this and when the stewards and cops asked them to move, they refused and complained they were being victimised.

 

Rightly or wrongly, Liverpool fans believe everyone is out to get them and they don't care. They also have a problem with any sort of authority.

 

After what happened at heysel and Hillsboro you would have thought they would have been more sensitive to their actions yet all they do is continue to look for people to blame.

 

The only blameless people are the 96 people who had tickets to watch their beloved team and never went home

[Floyd]

No matter what way it's dressed up, the blame in this is not all one way. Anyone who looks at this objectively should recognise that blame should be apportioned 3 ways. The greatest portion should be attributed to the match commander (dukinfield) and his tactics (or lack of). However the charging of gates to jib into games were a well known tactic of fans. Fans from both Liverpool clubs and Man U were known to be the worst. Scousers by their own admission were the worst for it.

 

The fans behaviour in the lead up to the kick off also has to take partial responsibility for what happened.

 

The FA also need to look at their decision to hold the game at Hillsboro considering the previous problems at that ground.

 

Liverpool fans are quite happy to absolve themselves of responsibility and play the victim in this.

 

Nicholas Alt's book the boys from the Mersey makes no bones about the way fans behaved and tried to blag as much as they could.

 

A family member is a ST holder at Anfield. He went to Athens and even he has admitted that Liverpool fans were rushing the gate. Yes some had tickets and were being denied entry, but they didn't care, they jeopardised their own safety and that of others to get in.

 

They also created issues with the stewards and police at the Etihad during the carling cup semi final. Fans stood in the areas for disabled fans and in the aisles. There were about 200 of them doing this and when the stewards and cops asked them to move, they refused and complained they were being victimised.

 

Rightly or wrongly, Liverpool fans believe everyone is out to get them and they don't care. They also have a problem with any sort of authority.

 

After what happened at heysel and Hillsboro you would have thought they would have been more sensitive to their actions yet all they do is continue to look for people to blame.

 

The only blameless people are the 96 people who had tickets to watch their beloved team and never went home

 

Best post by far on this entire thread!

[The Comedian]

We must not beat about the bush, point scoring about Hillsborough will achieve nothing.

 

 

That said, Liverpool fans are racists and scumbags responsible for deaths of fans. That's a matter of fact, dress it up how you like and post you critical shit of this post. We know this, you know this so stop defending a club you pretend to support.

 

Liverpool depend on their image, and any attack on that is met with the most sanctimonious bullshit, because if you state any critial thought against Liverpool then their fans (and a fair few gobshites on here who fancy themselves as dyed-in-the-wool reds) then you're met with posts that suggest you're mocking the dead. Well **** that and **** their moral blackmailing of the situation. Get a grip, and acknowledge that your beloved Liverpool are actually responsible for some events. You can't deflect forever.

 

Great post. Could not agree more.

[gorgie rd eh11]

We must not beat about the bush, point scoring about Hillsborough will achieve nothing.

 

 

That said, Liverpool fans are racists and scumbags responsible for deaths of fans. That's a matter of fact, dress it up how you like and post you critical shit of this post. We know this, you know this so stop defending a club you pretend to support.

 

Liverpool depend on their image, and any attack on that is met with the most sanctimonious bullshit, because if you state any critial thought against Liverpool then their fans (and a fair few gobshites on here who fancy themselves as dyed-in-the-wool reds) then you're met with posts that suggest you're mocking the dead. Well **** that and **** their moral blackmailing of the situation. Get a grip, and acknowledge that your beloved Liverpool are actually responsible for some events. You can't deflect forever.

 

 

 

"Liverpool fans are racists and scumbags". Bit of a sweeping statement that. The gobshite bit i believe because if any one should recognise a gobshite it would be the sort of gobshite who makes stupid, ridiculous statements like that.

[MacDonald Jardine]

No matter what way it's dressed up, the blame in this is not all one way. Anyone who looks at this objectively should recognise that blame should be apportioned 3 ways. The greatest portion should be attributed to the match commander (dukinfield) and his tactics (or lack of). However the charging of gates to jib into games were a well known tactic of fans. Fans from both Liverpool clubs and Man U were known to be the worst. Scousers by their own admission were the worst for it.

 

The fans behaviour in the lead up to the kick off also has to take partial responsibility for what happened.

 

The FA also need to look at their decision to hold the game at Hillsboro considering the previous problems at that ground.

 

Liverpool fans are quite happy to absolve themselves of responsibility and play the victim in this.

 

Nicholas Alt's book the boys from the Mersey makes no bones about the way fans behaved and tried to blag as much as they could.

 

A family member is a ST holder at Anfield. He went to Athens and even he has admitted that Liverpool fans were rushing the gate. Yes some had tickets and were being denied entry, but they didn't care, they jeopardised their own safety and that of others to get in.

 

They also created issues with the stewards and police at the Etihad during the carling cup semi final. Fans stood in the areas for disabled fans and in the aisles. There were about 200 of them doing this and when the stewards and cops asked them to move, they refused and complained they were being victimised.

 

Rightly or wrongly, Liverpool fans believe everyone is out to get them and they don't care. They also have a problem with any sort of authority.

 

After what happened at heysel and Hillsboro you would have thought they would have been more sensitive to their actions yet all they do is continue to look for people to blame.

 

The only blameless people are the 96 people who had tickets to watch their beloved team and never went home

 

Great post.

[daaaniel]

Point scoring on this is pointless. Justice for the 96. 96 lads and lasses just like us all went to a football game and never made it home. The government and judicial system and police forces bent over backwards to lay blame on the fans due to THATCHER and her want for political point scoring. I won't say here what I want to say, as I'd probably get a ban so will leave it.

 

Again, hopefully the families will finally gain justice, and may Thatcher get her justice when she goes to meet her maker.

 

I didn't think it would take this long to blame Thatcher.

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At the end of the day, these 96 innocent people went to a football match and never returned. Suffering in death. Look at the ages of some of these people.

 

I find the 'debate' here completely disgusting.

[Chris Benoit]

You call the debate disgusting but you're the one using those who died for your own ends. If you don't like where the thread is going avoid it but don't try and take the moral high ground when your post has been the most distasteful I've read so far

[fabienleclerq]

I don't really have a kiddy on English team I claim to support like basically every man and his dug these days but cos of Dalglish I've always wanted them to do well. Always had a soft spot for Everton too.

 

Scousers though, are a bunch of c**** and no mistake.

Not just aimed at you but it seems to be a kickback thing to mock antone who follows the results of a "kiddy on" english team.

 

I love football and it's something me and my old boy banter about and we're always winding each other up so we have a team each from the big league's (usually rivals) keeps it interesting when barca/madrid etc play.

 

And the scouser remark i think your better than, some of them are c**** some would give you their last penny same as anywhere.

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At the end of the day, these 96 innocent people went to a football match and never returned. Suffering in death. Look at the ages of some of these people.

 

I find the 'debate' here completely disgusting.

 

Well said,sir.

The thread should be closed after this post.

A terrible tragedy that affects many fans,involved or not,to this day.

Think it was Aberdeen we player the following week but the silence was one of the most poignant i've witnessed at Tynie and affected me more than others....dunno why.

A bit of respect wouldn't go amiss eh!

[MacDonald Jardine]

Well said,sir.

The thread should be closed after this post.

A terrible tragedy that affects many fans,involved or not,to this day.

Think it was Aberdeen we player the following week but the silence was one of the most poignant i've witnessed at Tynie and affected me more than others....dunno why.

A bit of respect wouldn't go amiss eh!

 

Does respect not include acknowledging the causes of the tragedy?

[Boab]

Does respect not include acknowledging the causes of the tragedy?

 

Of course it does,mate but c'mon...i think you know what i'm talking about here.

There are ways of debating without resorting to cheap prejudice.

[Paolo]

No matter what way it's dressed up, the blame in this is not all one way. Anyone who looks at this objectively should recognise that blame should be apportioned 3 ways. The greatest portion should be attributed to the match commander (dukinfield) and his tactics (or lack of). However the charging of gates to jib into games were a well known tactic of fans. Fans from both Liverpool clubs and Man U were known to be the worst. Scousers by their own admission were the worst for it.

 

The fans behaviour in the lead up to the kick off also has to take partial responsibility for what happened.

 

The FA also need to look at their decision to hold the game at Hillsboro considering the previous problems at that ground.

 

Liverpool fans are quite happy to absolve themselves of responsibility and play the victim in this.

 

Nicholas Alt's book the boys from the Mersey makes no bones about the way fans behaved and tried to blag as much as they could.

 

A family member is a ST holder at Anfield. He went to Athens and even he has admitted that Liverpool fans were rushing the gate. Yes some had tickets and were being denied entry, but they didn't care, they jeopardised their own safety and that of others to get in.

 

They also created issues with the stewards and police at the Etihad during the carling cup semi final. Fans stood in the areas for disabled fans and in the aisles. There were about 200 of them doing this and when the stewards and cops asked them to move, they refused and complained they were being victimised.

 

Rightly or wrongly, Liverpool fans believe everyone is out to get them and they don't care. They also have a problem with any sort of authority.

 

After what happened at heysel and Hillsboro you would have thought they would have been more sensitive to their actions yet all they do is continue to look for people to blame.

 

The only blameless people are the 96 people who had tickets to watch their beloved team and never went home

Spot on.

[maroonshrew]

Well said,sir.

The thread should be closed after this post.

A terrible tragedy that affects many fans,involved or not,to this day.

Think it was Aberdeen we player the following week but the silence was one of the most poignant i've witnessed at Tynie and affected me more than others....dunno why.

A bit of respect wouldn't go amiss eh!

Does that mean people and historians should stop debating the causes of WW2 and the Holocaust? That effects people to this day. It is in our history just like Hillsborough is and it should continue to be debated to ensure we learn from it, something which I dont think everyone has judging by what I saw in Athens.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Well said,sir.

The thread should be closed after this post.

 

Amazing. The Justice Campaign works to keep Hillsborough in the public eye but people shouldn't be allowed to air their views on it.

[CavySlaveJambo]

Athens and Heysel are both more complex than x happened. Everything is.

 

If anyone has actually read the Taylor Interim Report - which is NOT disputed AFAIK - mentions Drunk/Ticketless fans and suggests it is a non-issue. But that they were Present. (which you'd know if you'd read it)

 

What has not yet been mentioned on this thread is the roadworks on the M62 delayed many fans getting there.

[Boab]

You people are strange!

If my post suggested to you that the thread be shut regardless,that you've picked me up wrong.I'm all for finding out the causes of Hillsborough and the people who caused it but it seems you can't have a debate on here without some,frankly,ignorant nonsense being aired.

Hence....stop the thread out of respect.

[Guest Just Came To Say Kello]

Except there's not just a link to a report, is there? There's your comment that it's "not been a good season for the reputation of Liverpool's fans in general" - a complete non sequitur

 

Bollocks it is. They've been mocked up and down the country for the way they reacted to the Evra/Suarez incident. It stands to reason that, especially for those clearly less clued up than yourself, that this report is only going to add fuel to the fire.

[Debut 4]

I think MerseyJambo is spot on too........i hate the blame culture and the need to single one person/organisation out for justice to be brought against them....

 

There`s no doubt fans were as much at fault as the police or anyone else for what happened.

[Eckauskas]

I find the 'debate' here completely disgusting.

 

I reckon some people will find your hero worship of a vile racist to be disgusting as well mate.

 

People in glass houses...

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At the end of the day, these 96 innocent people went to a football match and never returned. Suffering in death. Look at the ages of some of these people.

 

I find the 'debate' here completely disgusting.

 

Well stop reading the thread then.

 

[merseyjambo]

Pistolero, take your red tinted glasses off.

 

The only truth is that 96 people should not have died at a football match. The only people who completely blame the police are Liverpool fans, yet they refuse to acknowledge or change their behaviour.

 

This subject when it's brought up is always going to raise debates about the rights and wrongs of the day but until all parties recognise that some of their actions were partially responsible, it will never move on and the families will never get some sort of closure and peace. Yes I believe there should be a full and open enquiry into events that day but I fear that over 20 plus years any accounts from some fans will be tainted by a desire for them to absolve themselves from any blame.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I reckon some people will find your hero worship of a vile racist to be disgusting as well mate.

 

People in glass houses...

 

But your hero Evra said at the tribunal that Suarez was not a racist so once again you're talking shite.

[Eckauskas]

But your hero Evra said at the tribunal that Suarez was not a racist so once again you're talking shite.

 

Patrice Evra isn't a hero of mine chief, in fact I've never been a fan of him.

 

Thankfully I can make my own mind up when reading an independant report.

[maroonshrew]

Either way, I find it funny that debating the occurrences building up to one of the most seminal moments in popular culture history is disgusting and unethical but a picture glorifying a moment of racial incitement by having it as your signature is ok.

 

Im not comparing the instances obviously but of course we should be able to debate who was at fault, like any moment in history. Like I say the holocaust is debated up and down classrooms every day around the World and that is arguably the single most horrific and tragic event ever to occur in any lifetime. That isn't considered disgusting and rightly so. So why should this be? There is a school of though that Liverpool fans are partially culpable and people should be able to debate that in a constructive way. Many of here have tried to do that and have been rebuffed with comments that they are distasteful or disgusting. It makes no sense to me.

[Denny Crane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlqCCg8pThY

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxHNHZQwlII&feature=related

 

Plus the Interim Report from Lord chief Justice Taylor

 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/uploaded/publications/pdfs/interim%20report%20hillsborough.pdf

[Seymour M Hersh]

Patrice Evra isn't a hero of mine chief, in fact I've never been a fan of him.

 

Thankfully I can make my own mind up when reading an independant report.

 

Clearly you can't. He was exonerated of being the "vile racist" some know-it-all called eckauskas calls him. If you've never been a fan then again it's clear you are towing the dement anti-LFC line at all costs so you are as blinkered as those you chastise for being blinkered. Do you do irony chief?

[Eckauskas]

Clearly you can't. He was exonerated of being the "vile racist" some know-it-all called eckauskas calls him. If you've never been a fan then again it's clear you are towing the dement anti-LFC line at all costs so you are as blinkered as those you chastise for being blinkered. Do you do irony chief?

 

Not as well as you do Internet breakdowns, it seems.

[Denny Crane]

Not as well as you do Internet breakdowns, it seems.

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

 

He's one of the most ignorant of them all DC. Keeps trying to mount himself in some sort of moral high ground. Would not be surprised if he has never been to elderly trafford. Only seen them lift trophies on TV I suspect.

[Floyd]

FFS let's not turn this into yet another Man Utd vs Liverpool thing or another "English Team" debate.

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* Thomas Anthony Howard (14)

* Eric George Hughes (42)

* Alan Johnston (29)

* Christine Anne Jones (27)

* Gary Philip Jones (18)

* Richard Jones (25)

* Nicholas Peter Joynes (27)

* Anthony Peter Kelly (29)

* Michael David Kelly (38)

* Carl David Lewis (18)

* David William Mather (19)

* Brian Christopher Mathews (38)

* Francis Joseph McAllister (27)

* John McBrien (18)

* Marion Hazel McCabe (21)

* Joseph Daniel McCarthy (21)

* Peter McDonnell (21)

* Alan McGlone (28)

* Keith McGrath (17)

* Paul Brian Murray (14)

* Lee Nicol (14)

* Stephen Francis O'Neill (17)

* Jonathon Owens (18)

* William Roy Pemberton (23)

* Carl William Rimmer (21)

* David George Rimmer (38)

* Graham John Roberts (24)

* Steven Joseph Robinson (17)

* Henry Charles Rogers (17)

* Colin Andrew Hugh William Sefton (23)

* Inger Shah (38)

* Paula Ann Smith (26)

* Adam Edward Spearritt (14)

* Philip John Steele (15)

* David Leonard Thomas (23)

* Patrik John Thompson (35)

* Peter Reuben Thompson (30)

* Stuart Paul William Thompson (17)

* Peter Francis Tootle (21)

* Christopher James Traynor (26)

* Martin Kevin Traynor (16)

* Kevin Tyrrell (15)

* Colin Wafer (19)

* Ian David Whelan (19)

* Martin Kenneth Wild (29)

* Kevin Daniel Williams (15)

* Graham John Wright (17)

 

 

At the end of the day, these 96 innocent people went to a football match and never returned. Suffering in death. Look at the ages of some of these people.

 

I find the 'debate' here completely disgusting.

 

 

Rocco Acerra 29

 

Bruno Balli 50

 

Alfons Bos

 

Giancarlo Bruschera 21

 

Andrea Casula 11

 

Giovanni Casula 44

 

Nino Cerullo 24

 

Willy Chielens

 

Giuseppina Conto 17

 

Dirk Daenecky

 

Dionisio Fabbro 51

 

Jacques Fran?ois

 

Eugenio Gagliano 35

 

Francesco Galli 25

 

Giancarlo Gonnelli 20

 

Alberto Guarini 21

 

Giovacchino Landini 50

 

Roberto Lorentini 31

 

Barbara Lusci 58

 

Franco Martelli 22

 

Loris Messore 28

 

Gianni Mastroiaco 20

 

Sergio Bastino Mazzino 38

 

Luciano Rocco Papaluca 38

 

Luigi Pidone 31

 

Benito Pistolato 50

 

Patrick Radcliffe

 

Antonio Ragnanese 49

 

Claude Robert

 

Mario Ronchi 43

 

Domenico Russo 28

 

Tarcisio Salvi 49

 

Gianfranco Sarto 47

 

Amedeo Giuseppe Spolaore 55

 

Mario Spanu 41

 

Tarcisio Venturin 23

 

Jean Michel Walla

 

Claudio Zavaroni 28

 

A list of guys who went along to watch their team play & never returned to their families either.

[Denny Crane]

Rocco Acerra 29

 

Bruno Balli 50

 

Alfons Bos

 

Giancarlo Bruschera 21

 

Andrea Casula 11

 

Giovanni Casula 44

 

Nino Cerullo 24

 

Willy Chielens

 

Giuseppina Conto 17

 

Dirk Daenecky

 

Dionisio Fabbro 51

 

Jacques Fran?ois

 

Eugenio Gagliano 35

 

Francesco Galli 25

 

Giancarlo Gonnelli 20

 

Alberto Guarini 21

 

Giovacchino Landini 50

 

Roberto Lorentini 31

 

Barbara Lusci 58

 

Franco Martelli 22

 

Loris Messore 28

 

Gianni Mastroiaco 20

 

Sergio Bastino Mazzino 38

 

Luciano Rocco Papaluca 38

 

Luigi Pidone 31

 

Benito Pistolato 50

 

Patrick Radcliffe

 

Antonio Ragnanese 49

 

Claude Robert

 

Mario Ronchi 43

 

Domenico Russo 28

 

Tarcisio Salvi 49

 

Gianfranco Sarto 47

 

Amedeo Giuseppe Spolaore 55

 

Mario Spanu 41

 

Tarcisio Venturin 23

 

Jean Michel Walla

 

Claudio Zavaroni 28

 

A list of guys who went along to watch their team play & never returned to their families either.

 

Wondered how long before someone would use Heysel to score a cheap point in an internet debate. Yes their names should never be forgotten but not for the benefit of your motive on this thread.

[JKBMod 7]

Don't let this thread descend into bickering.

Stay on topic and keep it civil or we'll close it. Thanks.

[Eckauskas]

He's one of the most ignorant of them all DC. Keeps trying to mount himself in some sort of moral high ground. Would not be surprised if he has never been to elderly trafford. Only seen them lift trophies on TV I suspect.

 

Tell me how a 50 year old man from Scotland started following Liverpool then.

[Paolo]

Wondered how long before someone would use Heysel to score a cheap point in an internet debate. Yes their names should never be forgotten but not for the benefit of your motive on this thread.

So it is OK to list the Hillsborough deaths but not the Heysel deaths?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

So it is OK to list the Hillsborough deaths but not the Heysel deaths?

 

Look, they're two separate events involving the same club. I do think Liverpool's attitude towards Heysel and Hillsborough is selective and disproportionate but that doesn't make the debate about Hillsborough less valid.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Look, they're two separate events involving the same club. I do think Liverpool's attitude towards Heysel and Hillsborough is selective and disproportionate but that doesn't make the debate about Hillsborough less valid.

 

It does when certain folk insist the only possible position is to absolve any Liverpool fan of any blame.

[Paolo]

Look, they're two separate events involving the same club. I do think Liverpool's attitude towards Heysel and Hillsborough is selective and disproportionate but that doesn't make the debate about Hillsborough less valid.

I agree but a debate has to be two sided. Some on here do not seem to recognise this.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

I agree but a debate has to be two sided. Some on here do not seem to recognise this.

 

True enough

[Denny Crane]

So it is OK to list the Hillsborough deaths but not the Heysel deaths?

 

It is but not in the context of cheap point scoring on an internet debate. Feel free to check through my posts where I have given my opinion of the shameful events of Heysel.

[Denny Crane]

It does when certain folk insist the only possible position is to absolve any Liverpool fan of any blame.

 

As I've said to another poster, feel free to trawl through my previous posts. When it comes to Heysel, I do no such thing.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

As I've said to another poster, feel free to trawl through my previous posts. When it comes to Heysel, I do no such thing.

 

I think he means absolving Liverpool's fans of any blame for Hillsborough