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The Rangers soap opera goes on and on.


Sergio Garcia

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niblick1874

Sums it up rather well, I think.

 

If we have a fair wind (i.e. no GFA skullduggery and they keep the fat imposter) and Craig Levein and Lady Budge at the helm next season I'm convinced we'll piss all over them.

Your hope falls flat on it's face at the first hurdle i.e.no GFA skullduggery.
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Geoff Kilpatrick

Hopefully this civil war doesn't stop them staying afloat for this season but causes admin for next season.

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Jambof3tornado

Hopefully this civil war doesn't stop them staying afloat for this season but causes admin for next season.

wishful thinking.

 

 

nice wish though!

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Hagar the Horrible

I read Craig Houston statement and was right behind him sticking it up to the man, even the man with ridiculous hair. But he came across as a bit of an arrogant knob, insisting Rangers with immediate effect should be back competing with Celtic. Lost me there

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Hagar the Horrible

I just want to get this right, King says to a group of money grabbing know all the dirty tricks in the book spivs....Give us the security over Ibrox or we will keep the season ticket money. He wants basically for the owners of Ibrox to give him Ibrox in exchange for season tickets? This Spiv on Spiv action is going to get very messy very quickly.

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Rick Grimes

With all their watp, unionist, militarist, proddy extremism they display nowadays they are actually worse now than they have ever been, they are like an extreme parody of themselves. They ate actually beyond hope, the thought that a nicer friendlier less bigoted Rangers would emerge has proven to be a false hope and in reality a pipe dream, the parts of them that is repulsive everyone else is actually the part that sustains them, it is their core identity and keeps them who they are. It is what attracts and keeps their followers. A good Rangers simply wouldn't hold the same attraction for them. Nobody likes them they don't care is truly how they think and see themselves.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. All clubs have varying issues with minorities of arseholes in their supports but Rangers are the only club who have ingrained them into their DNA to such an extent, from top to bottom, to sustain & grow the club that its no longer a minority. Even the other cheek aren't as bad - they at least seem to get on with the football in spite of the bile of their problem core, albeit they could be doing more to actively challenge them.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more. All clubs have varying issues with minorities of arseholes in their supports but Rangers are the only club who have ingrained them into their DNA to such an extent, from top to bottom, to sustain & grow the club that its no longer a minority. Even the other cheek aren't as bad - they at least seem to get on with the football in spite of the bile of their problem core, albeit they could be doing more to actively challenge them.

 

I despise the Orcs as much as anyone else... but your post is simply not true. Celtic are every bit as minky. Let's not pretend otherwise.

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Hagar the Horrible

So King met the investors in London and he said they were responsive to him! what for his idea of taking ownership of the stadium for the princely sum of heehaw, and he will give them the season ticket money? Laxley were apparently less responsive. NS Sherlock!

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niblick1874

I despise the Orcs as much as anyone else... but your post is simply not true. Celtic are every bit as minky. Let's not pretend otherwise.

When it comes to who has Scottish football by the balls, I have no hesitation in saying that it is the Orcs.
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Seems to me King has got them over a barrel. If the spivs do sell out hoping to rely on a good return from leaseback they will play into King's hands: if not the club goes into administration starved of funds. Either way they may have charge over the assets but Ibrox and associated properties are worthless as a saleable asset and I would expect that a New New Rangers plea to play at Hampden would be dealt with sympathetically by the GFA. King and the fans group can bide their time.

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Ron Swanson

Did king not reject the previous CVA? I know that HMRC were the main creditors but was he not fairly high up the list?

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kingantti1874

When it comes to who has Scottish football by the balls, I have no hesitation in saying that it is the Orcs.

 

Really? I would say at this point in time that Peter lawell pulls the strings... They are both vermin

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Geoff Kilpatrick

Did king not reject the previous CVA? I know that HMRC were the main creditors but was he not fairly high up the list?

I doubt it. It was irrelevant anyway as Hector had a veto one way or the other.

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Am I being a bit thick here? I cant seem to fathom the thoughts around the Rangers supporters paying money to get a season ticket, they don't hand over the money directly to Rangers but keep it in a trust fund and drip feed it to Rangers, so what do they expect the club to do in response? Would they expect to receive a season ticket without actually paying for it in full? Also,how can season ticket money warrant a security? Your buying a season ticket, if they crash before the season ends what happens to Ibrox? Do they get sent a brick in the post as recompense? surely you would just buy a ticket per game as a walk up? reminds me of that 80's American show "Soap" - "Confused. you will be after you watch the next episode of..."

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niblick1874

Am I being a bit thick here? I cant seem to fathom the thoughts around the Rangers supporters paying money to get a season ticket, they don't hand over the money directly to Rangers but keep it in a trust fund and drip feed it to Rangers, so what do they expect the club to do in response? Would they expect to receive a season ticket without actually paying for it in full? Also,how can season ticket money warrant a security? Your buying a season ticket, if they crash before the season ends what happens to Ibrox? Do they get sent a brick in the post as recompense? surely you would just buy a ticket per game as a walk up? reminds me of that 80's American show "Soap" - "Confused. you will be after you watch the next episode of..."

They know that the people in charge will **** over Scottish football for them,.
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Am I being a bit thick here? I cant seem to fathom the thoughts around the Rangers supporters paying money to get a season ticket, they don't hand over the money directly to Rangers but keep it in a trust fund and drip feed it to Rangers, so what do they expect the club to do in response? Would they expect to receive a season ticket without actually paying for it in full? Also,how can season ticket money warrant a security? Your buying a season ticket, if they crash before the season ends what happens to Ibrox? Do they get sent a brick in the post as recompense? surely you would just buy a ticket per game as a walk up? reminds me of that 80's American show "Soap" - "Confused. you will be after you watch the next episode of..."

 

orcs do not trust the Spivs

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i wish jj was my dad

Incidentally, I took a bit of stick from some hun sympathisers who said I was making false points about Rangers crowds in the 80s. I offered some evidence to support that thinking when challenged:

http://www.fitbastat...ttendance.php??

 

I don't expect an apology but I'd love to hear why they think we will see 40k crowds when they join the also rans.

Edited by i wish jj was my dad
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Harry Palmer

Really? I would say at this point in time that Peter lawell pulls the strings... They are both vermin

 

Correct.

 

Lawwell has a finger in every pie.

 

But it's good for Scottish football...(that should probably be in the "football cliches" thread).

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niblick1874

Him being a part of it dose not mean that he is the big boss. It just means that he is in the loop..

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Correct.

 

Lawwell has a finger in every pie.

 

But it's good for Scottish football...(that should probably be in the "football cliches" thread).

Lawell is just an employee, thats all.

 

The power behind the public face lies in a little part of Ireland or some lovely tax haven but not at an office next to a graveyard in glorious. glamorous Parkhead even with the cosmetic Commonweath Games upgrades.

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Footballfirst

You may recall a letter that was sent around three weeks ago by a TSFM poster "Auldheid" to Harper MacLeod, solicitors for the SPL, alleging that they had misled the SPL Commision (LNS) looking at EBT payments and player registrations.

 

http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/106910-the-rangers-soap-opera-goes-on-and-on-see-admin-note-in-post-1/page__st__56050#entry4069430

 

He received an answer (of sorts) last night. It is at least an acknowledgement of the letter, but only serves to obfuscate the situation regarding the DOS scheme (wee tax case) being different from the EBT scheme and fails to answer the point why the start date for the investigation was changed from 1st July 1998 to 23 Nov 2000. This is the period where Campbell Ogilvie was personally involved in the operation of the scheme, but was never questioned about it.

 

The letter also encourages further response and clarification from "Auldheid", so there may be some mileage yet in following it up.

 

Dear Sir,

 

I confirm receipt of your undated letter, addressed to me and copied to Mr Doncaster which I have discussed with my client. I do not know your name or address or the position which you have with the TSFM and am unable to address you as other than ?Sir?.

 

The SPL Commission Decision of 28 February 2013 (?the Decision?) deals, amongst other matters, with the failure by ?Oldco? (as defined in the Decision) to provide relevant information at Issue 4 on page 33 of the Decision. Whilst I was only able to secure and provide to the Commission copies of a number of the ?side letters? the list of those players who had received such letters was in the public domain and for the purposes of the ?Issues? before the Commission it was not suggested by Oldco or Newco that the fundamentals of the side letters were significantly different over the 10 years or so that Oldco had given such letters to each of the individual players involved.

 

The Commission was provided with evidence regarding the existence of both the Murray Group Management Remuneration Trust and the Rangers Employee Benefit Trust. This is referred to at paragraph 35 of the Decision. The Commission chose in its Decision to group these together as ?MGMRT?. Both are referred to in the published accounts of Oldco and copies of those accounts were provided to the Commission.

 

I refer you to the Annex to the Decision which includes six lists of Specified Players, 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A and 3B. The numbering relates to 3 periods during which different regulatory regimes applied. The A reference is to players for whom we had a copy ?side letter? and the B reference is to players for whom we did not have a copy of a side letter but in respect of whom there was other evidence that a side letter had been issued by Oldco. The Commission proceeded on the basis that with respect to the Issues the position of all of the Specified Players was the same except where specifically identified in the documents and other evidence.

 

The Commission was provided with copies of ?side letters? relating to the players whose names appears in the A lists of Specified Players and whilst the Commission and I did not have copies of the side letters for those players whose names appear on the B lists, the evidence of side letters having been issued by Oldco to each of the players listed in the three groups of B Specified Players was also disclosed to the Commission.

 

At paragraph 36 of the Decision the Commission held that the same general arrangements applied in respect of all of the Specified Players whilst the details and precise form of the individual side letters varied over the years.

 

Since the involvement of Specified Players in EBT Payments and Arrangements with Oldco and the existence of side letters given to each of them was known to the Commission and included in the Decision it is not readily apparent what substantive new allegations with respect to the actions of Oldco in relation to EBT Payments and Arrangements under the earlier Rangers Employee Benefit Trust so far as relates to the Issues are now being made. Your letter does not suggest that the scheme of the EBT Payments and Arrangements was different as between the first and second trusts and associated sub-trusts so far as concerns the player registration matters with which Issues 1, 2 & 3 were concerned. The Commission does not suggest in the Decision that it determined the Issues before it on the basis that any of the Specified Players had not been part of EBT Payments and Arrangements during the period of their employment by Oldco and/or that one or more of them had not received a side letter from Oldco.

 

Accordingly, I am not clear in what respects it is being suggested that the Commission was ?misled? as regards any of the Specified Players in particular and/or in relation to the participation of Specified Players in EBT Payments and Arrangements in connection with the Rangers Employee Benefit Trust. For the Commission to have been misled it would be necessary for it to have been induced into a false belief by the actions or inactions of a party and/or third party and for it to have relied on that false belief in coming to its various decisions.

 

You will note that the Commission determined at paragraph [111] (1) that there had been breaches by Oldco with respect to all of Issues 1, 2 and 4 and in respect of most of 3. The excerpted parts of 3 are stated in the paragraph. The finding of breach extends to the Registrations with the SPL, as it then was, of all of the Specified Players; i.e. all of those for whom we had copy side letters and for those for whom we did not but in relation to whom it was known that side letters had been given by Oldco and that whether in respect of the first and/or second trusts.

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...a bit disco

Fans and saviour not on the same page it seems

  1. 12:32:
     
    Craig Houston, from Rangers fans' group Sons of Struth: "Dave King met the fans' groups yesterday and then he was meeting the directors after that. He has the same concerns as us but he has more money than me and more contacts than me. I don't have any worries about his involvement. I'd be surprised if he wasn't here (at Ibrox) today."
     
    12:35: BBC Scotland reporter Richard Wilson at Ibrox: "Dave King won't be at Ibrox today.

Edited by ...a bit disco
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Boomtown Jambo

Just seen this on BBC website...

 

 

Now to the story from Jim Spence. He reports that Dundee United have been refused their request to have their Scottish Cup semi-final on 12 April moved to a neutral venue, if their opponents are Rangers.

The Tannadice club made an official request to the SFA that the match be played at a neutral venue, but say the governing body has rejected the request, citing examples from Uefa as a precedent for a club playing a semi-final on its own ground.

Dundee United chairman Stephen Thompson said: "This of course is all dependent on the result of Albion Rovers v Rangers. If it is to be Rangers, then we are not happy with the fact that it is not a neutral venue. A semi-final or final should be at a neutral venue.

"This is not an issue with Rangers, it's with the SFA and putting commercial and sponsors' interests before that of fans. We wanted to play the match at Celtic Park but that was flatly denied."

Thompson also said that he would not be sitting in the directors' box at Ibrox for the match if United do meet Rangers, but would instead be in with his own supporters.

United say they have been given a maximum ticket allocation of 13,100 for the semi at Ibrox if their opponents are Rangers and say that initially they were offered only 11,000 tickets.

Albion Rovers meet Rangers next Monday night at New Douglas Park in the quarter-final replay for a place in the last four.

An SFA spokesperson said: "The clubs were informed of the venue just after the first round of the cup, due to Hampden Park being out of commission because of the Commonwealth Games.

"There were no issues raised then at that early stage."

 

Meanwhile, Arab Trust board member Mike Barile says that, if Rangers do make the last four, the game should not be played on the Glasgow side's ground.

 

The former chairman of the fans' group said: "I was active in the supporters movement when United and Dundee met in the Scottish Cup semi-final in 1987.

 

"Both clubs were prepared to play the game at Tannadice or Dens Park on the toss of a coin, but the SFA insisted that the game had to be played at a neutral stadium.

Edited by mixorcist
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Toxteth O'Grady

The SFA make up the rules as they go along.

 

 

A semi final should always be at a neutral ground.

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Thats pish poor from thw SFA. Cup games should always be neutral. Typical of our beaks though

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The SFA make up the rules as they go along.

 

 

A semi final should always be at a neutral ground.

Or you go down the route for this one season only then up to the final whoever comes out of the draw first is at home.

 

Then again this was agreed back in November and none of the clubs thought to raise concerns.

 

Our club owners are either spineless, thick or a combination of both.

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Fans and saviour not on the same page it seems

  1. 12:32:
     
    Craig Houston, from Rangers fans' group Sons of Struth: "Dave King met the fans' groups yesterday and then he was meeting the directors after that. He has the same concerns as us but he has more money than me and more contacts than me. I don't have any worries about his involvement. I'd be surprised if he wasn't here (at Ibrox) today."
     
    12:35: BBC Scotland reporter Richard Wilson at Ibrox: "Dave King won't be at Ibrox today.

 

Well the rangers board aren't going to give him tickets in the Box and he's not exactly going to spend his own money!

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The other clubs in the SPL had a great opportunity to break the dominance of the Old Firm - but as usual bottled it. The are far too many people involved in clubs at the. Lower levels who are actually Old Firm Supporters to do anything about the SFA. What is actually needed is a break away.

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Hungry hippo

 

 

Knowing hampden was going to be out of commission it maybe would have been wiser to wait until who the semi finalists were before deciding the venues .

 

Conspiracy theorists might say the Sfa engineered this scenario of using ibroke for 2 semi's to ensure a bumper payday for sevco.

 

When was the last time a team played a cup semi final at its own ground ?. The Sfa have always insisted in the past that it must be a neutral venue ..

 

 

Hmfc the team for me ...

 

My guess about the reason for predetermining the venues is the opposite of what you suggest. They assumed Celtic would be the ones that would make both finals and I think they didn't want Ibrox getting both finals and Celic's semi. The plan has massively backfired

 

Regardless of the logic there is no reasonable justification for the decision.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

Murrayfield would have been the best choice of neutral venue, it would not offer home advantage to anyone and it is big enough to accommodate even the biggest sides.

 

 

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My guess about the reason for predetermining the venues is the opposite of what you suggest. They assumed Celtic would be the ones that would make both finals and I think they didn't want Ibrox getting both finals and Celic's semi. The plan has massively backfired

 

Regardless of the logic there is no reasonable justification for the decision.

 

If they assumed Celtic would make both finals, then the decison is just as bad, since Parkhead is to host the final.

 

It is pandering to the Siamese Twins. It is obvious, and it is the norm for Scottish Football.

 

The sooner the gruesome twosome leave, the better. I despise them both, and would not miss them one bit.

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Barney Rubble

The only way the sfa would listen is for scotland supporters to boycott games ! that wll never happen !

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Gigolo-Aunt

The only way the sfa would listen is for scotland supporters to boycott games ! that wll never happen !

 

:cornette:

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Hungry hippo

 

 

If they assumed Celtic would make both finals, then the decison is just as bad, since Parkhead is to host the final.

 

It is pandering to the Siamese Twins. It is obvious, and it is the norm for Scottish Football.

 

The sooner the gruesome twosome leave, the better. I despise them both, and would not miss them one bit.

 

I agree.

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If they assumed Celtic would make both finals, then the decison is just as bad, since Parkhead is to host the final.

 

It is pandering to the Siamese Twins. It is obvious, and it is the norm for Scottish Football.

 

The sooner the gruesome twosome leave, the better. I despise them both, and would not miss them one bit.

 

I would tend to agree with you , but Rangers and Celtic would still be playing football here , and the press coverage afforded to the remaining clubs would be comparable to what junior football receives at present.

Scottish football wouldn't neccassrily die but I feel it's decline would be terminal, the chance to change the situation with Rangers out the picture has been missed and that is truly a scandal

Make no mistake the bigot twins will ditch Scotland at the first opportunity .

Edited by jbee647
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I would tend to agree with you , but Rangers and Celtic would still be playing football here , and the press coverage afforded to the remaining clubs would be comparable to what junior football receives at present.

Scottish football wouldn't neccassrily die but I feel it's decline would be terminal, the chance to change the situation with Rangers out the picture has been missed and that is truly a scandal

Make no mistake the bigot twins will ditch Scotland at the first opportunity .

While they may want to ditch Scotland, they are no closer today to the golden goose of the EPL than they were 20 years ago.

 

What Scottish football lacks is strong leadership to bring both OF clubs down a real peg or ten.

 

God it was only David Murray and Rangers own greed that led to their demise..

Edited by DETTY29
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The future is leagues that families can actually afford to attend. The big boys have waved goodbye to the rest already. Yes, rangers and celtic might get out eventually, say 2050, but their fans will be paying big prices to watch their clubs make up the numbers. Enjoy.

 

 

Supporters of other clubs want to go and watch football in this country at sensible prices, not some sort of freak show dictated by satellite TV. Even with players still being paid inflated wages here, our European efforts are risible. It is a stage too far.

 

 

 

 

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The people to blame over the past couple of years are the owners of all premier clubs outside the old firm. They've had a chance to rid the stupid voting system, and should have called a meeting for a vote of no confidence in whoever is running our football in this country over the handling of Sevco and all attempts to railroad them back to the top league. These people in my opinion have bottled it and thrown away a golden opportunity to rid this country of the bias that is shown to only two teams. Hopefully in the future more teams will come under fan ownership and listen to the paying customer. First thing I would do is bin any live TV as it only panders again to the old Firm.

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The future is leagues that families can actually afford to attend. The big boys have waved goodbye to the rest already. Yes, rangers and celtic might get out eventually, say 2050, but their fans will be paying big prices to watch their clubs make up the numbers. Enjoy.

 

 

Supporters of other clubs want to go and watch football in this country at sensible prices, not some sort of freak show dictated by satellite TV. Even with players still being paid inflated wages here, our European efforts are risible. It is a stage too far.

 

European football for the majority of Scottish football clubs has been reduced to the level of pre season friendlies , there is no appeal in getting beat by a mid table Slovakian side in the last week of July

If the League Cup is a Mickey Mouse cup what does that make the Europa League ?

It's become a distraction till the real football starts

I'd rather have a friendly against a decent English side than waste my time going to some East European hole, where the club is likely to be out of pocket

There is no glory for Scottish clubs in Europe any more

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The people to blame over the past couple of years are the owners of all premier clubs outside the old firm. They've had a chance to rid the stupid voting system, and should have called a meeting for a vote of no confidence in whoever is running our football in this country over the handling of Sevco and all attempts to railroad them back to the top league. These people in my opinion have bottled it and thrown away a golden opportunity to rid this country of the bias that is shown to only two teams. Hopefully in the future more teams will come under fan ownership and listen to the paying customer. First thing I would do is bin any live TV as it only panders again to the old Firm.

The people to blame over the past couple of years are the owners of all premier clubs outside the old firm. They've had a chance to rid the stupid voting system, and should have called a meeting for a vote of no confidence in whoever is running our football in this country over the handling of Sevco and all attempts to railroad them back to the top league. These people in my opinion have bottled it and thrown away a golden opportunity to rid this country of the bias that is shown to only two teams. Hopefully in the future more teams will come under fan ownership and listen to the paying customer. First thing I would do is bin any live TV as it only panders again to the old Firm.

There were 'accusations' at one point that the SFL clubs voted for Rangers into SFL 3 instead of SFL 1 because it would gaurantee most clubs the windfall of 2 home games against Rangers during the 3 year period they were in the lower leagues. Now that would seem fair enough however the Stenhousemuir chairman was on Sportsound saying that while there is a welcome increase in turnover, the net impact isn't anything like as much as has been made out. At an average Stenhousemuir game thay have one police man and 8 stewards, which increases to 8 police and 80 stewards when Rangers are in town.

 

And if you take the Premiership clubs is the income from OF fans life or death for them? Was ?200k to ?250k income from Rangers fans that led us towards administration? Maybe our parent group no longer funding sometimes upwards of ?10m in a seaon had something to do with it. ;)

 

It makes me angry how our club owners pander to them and even worse, some fans of other clubs can bide them.

 

I certainly hope that neither of them win a tie in Europe for for the forseeable future.

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While they may want to ditch Scotland, they are no closer today to the golden goose of the EPL than they were 20 years ago.

 

What Scottish football lacks is strong leadership to bring both OF clubs down a real peg or ten.

 

God it was only David Murray and Rangers own greed that led to their demise..

If there had been any strong leadership in Scottish Football Campbell Ogilvie would have been removed from his position within the SFA last year. The sad truth is that the organisation that supposedly runs the game here is rotten to the core and has been for decades. A complete clear out is needed - or more a fresh start without the cancer like presence of the Old Firm. The problem is that every club out with them is actually run by cowards who would rather cling to the Old Firms coat tails than see the game here run honestly and properly .
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If there had been any strong leadership in Scottish Football Campbell Ogilvie would have been removed from his position within the SFA last year. The sad truth is that the organisation that supposedly runs the game here is rotten to the core and has been for decades. A complete clear out is needed - or more a fresh start without the cancer like presence of the Old Firm. The problem is that every club out with them is actually run by cowards who would rather cling to the Old Firms coat tails than see the game here run honestly and properly .

 

Absolutely Spot on!

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If there had been any strong leadership in Scottish Football Campbell Ogilvie would have been removed from his position within the SFA last year. The sad truth is that the organisation that supposedly runs the game here is rotten to the core and has been for decades. A complete clear out is needed - or more a fresh start without the cancer like presence of the Old Firm. The problem is that every club out with them is actually run by cowards who would rather cling to the Old Firms coat tails than see the game here run honestly and properly .

Whether we like it or not, or they like it or not, the OF are here to stay for the significant future.

 

So there is your starting point on where the clubs want to go.

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If there had been any strong leadership in Scottish Football Campbell Ogilvie would have been removed from his position within the SFA last year. The sad truth is that the organisation that supposedly runs the game here is rotten to the core and has been for decades. A complete clear out is needed - or more a fresh start without the cancer like presence of the Old Firm. The problem is that every club out with them is actually run by cowards who would rather cling to the Old Firms coat tails than see the game here run honestly and properly .

 

 

 

100%

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If there had been any strong leadership in Scottish Football Campbell Ogilvie would have been removed from his position within the SFA last year. The sad truth is that the organisation that supposedly runs the game here is rotten to the core and has been for decades. A complete clear out is needed - or more a fresh start without the cancer like presence of the Old Firm. The problem is that every club out with them is actually run by cowards who would rather cling to the Old Firms coat tails than see the game here run honestly and properly .

As part of the review in to Scottish football it was decided that as well as having a ?200k+ a year Chief Executive, we also needed a full time President on ?250k+ per year.

 

Everyone knows Campbell Ogilvie should have been put on garden leave during the LNS enquiry but the game couldn't really justify paying him and extending another employee's duties and recompensing that employee accordingly. I have no doubt in my mind that the LNS enquiry timescales were specifically set up to avoid Ogilvie being investigated and the costs the game would have to incur and the end embarrassment of how complicit he was in it all.

 

As an edit - As a significantly paid employee, the clubs probably can't vote him out without him being significantly recompensed.

 

And Ogilvie knows this. As do Regan and Doncaster on their positions.

Edited by DETTY29
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