trotter Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 At least we'll have the nukes though. Posession being 9/10ths of the law and all that. Two shiny new aircraft carriers (well half built ones anyway) too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I don`t trust the Government just now and i wouldn`t trust the SNP..... Scotland is well and truly recognised worldwide as a nation with its history and reputation, so its nothing to do with us being given our identity back... As pointed out by others, i think we could suffer as the business world takes a good shake-up...... And again, are we realy oppressed, poor and toiling? (bar the recession of recent times) we`re hardly hard done by and we have one of the most famous, flourshing capitals around. Just leave things alone and at peace ffs... Given that the ConDems (particularly the latter) are proven liars who immediately abandon their policies when they come to power, not trusting them is understandable. The SNP, however, haven't done much, if any, lying, objectively speaking. Why the mistrust? Because they present a message some find challenging to their sensibilities? Second point; simply incorrect, as much as we want to believe, Scotland is not currently a sovereign nation, we have no real control over tax and spending. We generate X in terms of tax and revenue, and are returned a lower number, Y, like a child receiving pocket money. The issue about self-governance and self-determination above all else. Businesses want opportunity - an Independent Scotland represents a new and potentially exciting opportunity if correctly managed. Certainly it's more exciting than a moribund UK whose major sector is being defibrillated after having died spectacularly in 2007. This notion that companies would suddenly stop trading with us is just a fallacy; they'll go where there is money to be made. Who has said anything about being oppressed? It's largely in the minds of Unionists who find it easier to reduce notions of Scottish self-determination to some sort of pantomime/Braveheart nationalism, because they haven't given due consideration of the arguments or facts. Funnily enough, they tend to ignore them who favour independence when we raise solid arguments. As for having 'one of the most famous, flourishing capitals' - I assume you mean London. Sorry, but their Olympic games, Crossrail projects and whatever else they decide to spend Scotland's net contribution to the UK on, are of absolutely no benefit to Scotland whatsoever. Why should our tax monies be spent there and not in Scotland? If humanity had your attitude generally, we'd make very little progress at all. Why not try opening your eyes and mind to the arguments, you may find things surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Nuclear subs shoved up the Thames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The SNP, however, haven't done much, if any, lying, objectively speaking. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_04_11_labourdoc.pdf I'm more than happy for SNP to be in power tbh, Lets face it they beat the alternatives hands down. The problem is when all the arguments and cases are put forward from both sides for independence, you can be guaranteed it will just be wave after wave of bullshit and spin. Personally, I'm not wanting to gamble on an unproven promise of a better standard of living. Unless it can be proven that I'll be better off, I'll always be against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Unless it can be proven that I'll be better off, I'll always be against it. I'd say that it is impossible to say whether you will or won't be better off as a result of Independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
After The Watershed Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What it means is that your Taxes will go up loads, all the big companies will move their offices south of the border and we, as a county will be fecked. As for the oil.. companies such as BP, Shell etc.. have already paid the UK for the right to take oil out of the ground. They paid billions for drilling rights in certain sectors in the north sea. They pay a tax on their profits as well. I have no idea what the SNP are meaning by oil money as we would not have that, it would still belong to shell/BP ect as they have already paid for it. ---- Council tax will have to increase to pay for the postal system. at the moment a stamp costs the same.. Most of the people are located south of england and it is cheaper to get a letter from London to Birmingham than it is from Edinburgh to Aberdeen.. Based on cost per unit etc... The cost of sending something from Orkeny will force a rise in these prices. It will also lead to road repairs / street lighting all costing more. Due to the population per square mile being a lot lower than that of the UK as a whole. Not to mention that we would have to raise our own army etc... As you can tell I am not a fan of this and I think I might get out of scotland if it was to go independent. I think the taxes that will have to be raised on the big companies and richer individuals will also force them out of Scotland. We can still be Scottish without having to have independence and as far as I am concerned the SNP is using peoples emotions as a vote winner (i.e. we hate the english etc etc..) rather than doing it for the good of the country. Remember Salmond saying that Scotland could be like Iceland... well they are fecked now.. He also talks about being like Norway.. They pay 60% tax, and a pint costs ?10.... No Thank you... (PS Norway actually owns the companies that drill there NorskHydro and Statoil...) Only an Idiot would vote for independence. Made me laugh. Has anyone else noticed that all the unionist supporters come out with negative scare mongering messages with no basis of fact? Using the tax rate in norway without also showing other facts like pay rates, standard of living etc. I started to wonder if I was reading the daily record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Good to see the hackneyed Daily Mail stereotypes getting trotted out. Passports The Euro Oil Monies Subsidy Junkies Great stuff If you want to find out a bit more about what Independence is really all about and what it would mean to Sctoland and her people you are sitting reading this with one of the worlds most powerful research tools only a www. away. Don't be afraid. Open your mind. You may just find that the Daily Mail's fab 4 above are merely bullshit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Soneone please. Give me a reason to vote no. Just one. I see there's plenty unionists on here but all I read are silly little illinformed predictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Really? I thought it was Leeds for a minute there. Cameron claimed that we have at least 50 years of North Sea oil left, but thank you random Internet guy. I'm sure you are in a very informed position to make such a claim. Just seen this. I dunno who came out with the 10years comment but thats at best misleading and at worst factually incorrect. For starters he/she doesn't reference at what level of consumption (although I would presume they meant current). And second, there's a hell of a lot more than ten years left. BPs Claire Ridge field that they are plouging ?5bn into will produce an average of 100000bbl/d for longer than that by itself. What we are running out of is the cheap, easily accessible, already tapped reservoirs. All this means is that as these run low, the price goes up (supply and demand) until it becomes economical to go after the less easy, difficult to get at reserves. When these are brought on line the supply balance will be restored and the price will drop again. In fact, with the advent of new technologies, directional drilling being one, we are already seeing these 'stranded' reservoirs being tapped. graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Soneone please. Give me a reason to vote no. Just one. I see there's plenty unionists on here but all I read are silly little illinformed predictions. WULL NEED A PASSPORT TAE GO TAE ENGLAND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheiky Baby Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I really can't wait until the day we become independent. I do believe it's definitely going to happen, maybe not in our lifetimes but it will happen at some point. The whole 'Braveheart' arguement for people doing the intelligent thing of voting for an independent Scotland is beyong cringe worthy! I'm also sick of this failing attitude as a nation that we have. I believe we will be a better nation without the UK and to say we will be skint is very naive, it just isn't going to happen... Roll on independence and good riddance to those who jump ship because of this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Soneone please. Give me a reason to vote no. Just one. I see there's plenty unionists on here but all I read are silly little illinformed predictions. I am ambivalent to the whole thing and if I still lived in Scotland I would deliberately abstain but if you want a reason I would say it is the stated aim to join/rejoin the EU. Trade Westminster sovereignity for Brussels sovereignity, given the current farce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I am ambivalent to the whole thing and if I still lived in Scotland I would deliberately abstain but if you want a reason I would say it is the stated aim to join/rejoin the EU. Trade Westminster sovereignity for Brussels sovereignity, given the current farce? Given the UK is already a member state of the EU then there is no trade of Westminster to Brussels sovereignty as we must surely already have Brussels sovereignty? If we already have this then surely Westminster is simply another level of Govt that we don't need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I really can't wait until the day we become independent. I do believe it's definitely going to happen, maybe not in our lifetimes but it will happen at some point. The whole 'Braveheart' arguement for people doing the intelligent thing of voting for an independent Scotland is beyong cringe worthy! I'm also sick of this failing attitude as a nation that we have. I believe we will be a better nation without the UK and to say we will be skint is very naive, it just isn't going to happen... Roll on independence and good riddance to those who jump ship because of this issue. Completely agree with your first part. I hate the 'well we tried our best and that's all anyone can ask' attitude. I am broadly against independance but not with any particular reason. I enjoy being part of the UK (i await the 'you a hun??' shote chat). One question that i genuinely do not know the answer to is, would Scotland have coped at the height of the financial crisis a few years back? i.e. would we have been able to bail out RBS? (whether you think we should or should not have is not the point). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 One question that i genuinely do not know the answer to is, would Scotland have coped at the height of the financial crisis a few years back? i.e. would we have been able to bail out RBS? (whether you think we should or should not have is not the point). Had RBS been working in an independent Scotland would it have overstretched itself as far as it did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I am ambivalent to the whole thing and if I still lived in Scotland I would deliberately abstain but if you want a reason I would say it is the stated aim to join/rejoin the EU. Trade Westminster sovereignity for Brussels sovereignity, given the current farce? We'd more than likely have to rejoin the EU as a new accession state anaw. That would mean we would be legally obliged to adopt the Euro. Not a fan of that. Never been a fan of being in the EU tbh but I'm sure it must have its merits ie trade etc (I admittedly don't know much about it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Given the UK is already a member state of the EU then there is no trade of Westminster to Brussels sovereignty as we must surely already have Brussels sovereignty? If we already have this then surely Westminster is simply another level of Govt that we don't need? I'm prepared to be corrected but Scotland must reapply for EU membership as a "New" country, which is unsurprising given the likes of the Basque country, Flanders etc. The question then is that Scotland does not have the same opt-outs that the UK has and would therefore be expected to join the Euro as soon as is practicable. The best thing politically would be for the Euro to implode, otherwise by that stage Scotland's fiscal powers would be subservient to Brussels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Had RBS been working in an independent Scotland would it have overstretched itself as far as it did? Obviously we have no idea whether is would have or not. Say it had.......... Would we have had the reserves to save it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Had RBS been working in an independent Scotland would it have overstretched itself as far as it did? RBS would never have been able to buy NatWest, let alone expand the way it did into the States and Asia. More likely it would have been like Clydesdale and owned by a foreign bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Obviously we have no idea whether is would have or not. Say it had.......... Would we have had the reserves to save it? No, Scotland would have defaulted like Iceland. They are on the road to recovery, funnily enough. Such is the importance of being sovereign in your own currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsmak Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I just haven't seen any reasons on this thread yet to think that independence would be a good idea. My fav post is about the SNP and the fact they haven't lied, great retort with the labour 100 promises document. ---------- Has there been any independent studies (I.e.. not involving the SNP) about the financial implications of independence. Also - with regard to the oil.... Yes it will run out.. and it is getting more expensive to find... and as a result the big guns may put their efforts elsewhere to get easier and cheaper oil before returning to the North sea down the line on mass.. The Coil Tubing directional method is great. But very expensive. what would be the conditions of Independence? .. Where would the borders be with regard to seas and who gets what. Where would the taxes be paid if the head office of the oil company filing accounts is in England and not in Scotland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If Scotland does become independent, I am getting my kids Scottish passports to add to their collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If Scotland does become independent, I am getting my kids Scottish passports to add to their collection. Carpetbagger! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Carpetbagger! Land of their birth Boris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Land of their birth Boris! Fair do's Geoff. Geoff gets a.n.other passport... Here's the photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychocAndy Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi, I'm a bit of a windae licker when it comes to tax and the like, but what, if any, benefits would we have if an independent Scotland had a 0% income tax. I take it that the tax would then go on goods and import tax would be high, but then you are taxed on what you spend. Or The abolition of rates, adding a % or 2 on income tax to offset the rates. What I'm asking is because we would be independent we don't have to keep the tax status quo, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi, I'm a bit of a windae licker when it comes to tax and the like, but what, if any, benefits would we have if an independent Scotland had a 0% income tax. I take it that the tax would then go on goods and import tax would be high, but then you are taxed on what you spend. Or The abolition of rates, adding a % or 2 on income tax to offset the rates. What I'm asking is because we would be independent we don't have to keep the tax status quo, do we? The Scottish Govt would set it's own rates on income tax, VAT etc etc etc etc Actually, independence aside, I think this is what it's asking for in Devo-Max, were that to be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD_JAMBO Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Really? I thought it was Leeds for a minute there. Cameron claimed that we have at least 50 years of North Sea oil left, but thank you random Internet guy. I'm sure you are in a very informed position to make such a claim. Cameron talks shite there isn't as confirmed by several people who disagree with the north sea oil, and that's for Britain aswell as a independent scotland it doesn't go to Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 We would not have oil money? Surely all oil and gas extracted from our territorial waters and taxes generated will flow into Scotlands coffers as opposed to Westminster and all new drilling licences will be applied for via Edinburgh. It's immaterial who drills for it, it's all about where the tax goes and the vast majority will be to us. That's my understanding anyway. Im sure others can clarify if thats the case. Say that does happen, that's a big hole in the English finances, they'll need to raise taxes just in time for you flitting. :greggy: How much is be drilled out of UK territorial waters? How much is extracted in international waters but piped ashore in the UK (which is the point you can tax the product). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The economy is in a bit of a mess just now. Partly because when things were going well no-one seemed to bother about a plan B If The Independent Socialist Republic of Scotlands Plan A is oil, what is the plan B? Whisky? Panda's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GD_JAMBO Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The economy is in a bit of a mess just now. Partly because when things were going well no-one seemed to bother about a plan B If The Independent Socialist Republic of Scotlands Plan A is oil, what is the plan B? Whisky? Panda's? Exactly there is no solid foundation to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The economy is in a bit of a mess just now. Partly because when things were going well no-one seemed to bother about a plan B If The Independent Socialist Republic of Scotlands Plan A is oil, what is the plan B? Whisky? Panda's? Loving the mammoth step you have taken from independence to Socialist Republic! Still, we can all dream...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Loving the mammoth step you have taken from independence to Socialist Republic! Still, we can all dream...... Indeed, kinda Animal Farm but with Panda's instead of Pigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutley Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The economy is in a bit of a mess just now. Partly because when things were going well no-one seemed to bother about a plan B If The Independent Socialist Republic of Scotlands Plan A is oil, what is the plan B? Whisky? Panda's? Drunken panda fights. I would pay to watch that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've yet to be told a good reason for Independence. What good will independence do us as individuals? Other than "we'll control oor own destiny" - eh no, some tool of a politician will control our destiny, exactly like happens now, the only difference being he'd be based in Edinburgh and not in London. A lot more negatives banded about than positives. I don't know a lot about politics, but isn't there also a real danger we could go the way of Ireland i.e. bust. Very against independence, quite happy as things are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gershwin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_04_11_labourdoc.pdf I'm more than happy for SNP to be in power tbh, Lets face it they beat the alternatives hands down. The problem is when all the arguments and cases are put forward from both sides for independence, you can be guaranteed it will just be wave after wave of bullshit and spin. Personally, I'm not wanting to gamble on an unproven promise of a better standard of living. Unless it can be proven that I'll be better off, I'll always be against it. This is the key thing for me. Once it's decided, there really is no going back. Another thing - I presume I wouldn't get a vote as I live in London. But would English people living in Scotland get a vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This is the key thing for me. Once it's decided, there really is no going back. Another thing - I presume I wouldn't get a vote as I live in London. But would English people living in Scotland get a vote? i assume it should be anyone who is registered to vote in scotland would get a vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I just haven't seen any reasons on this thread yet to think that independence would be a good idea. My fav post is about the SNP and the fact they haven't lied, great retort with the labour 100 promises document. ---------- Has there been any independent studies (I.e.. not involving the SNP) about the financial implications of independence. Also - with regard to the oil.... Yes it will run out.. and it is getting more expensive to find... and as a result the big guns may put their efforts elsewhere to get easier and cheaper oil before returning to the North sea down the line on mass.. The Coil Tubing directional method is great. But very expensive. what would be the conditions of Independence? .. Where would the borders be with regard to seas and who gets what. Where would the taxes be paid if the head office of the oil company filing accounts is in England and not in Scotland? Based upon the rather simplistic assumption that seeing as the oil is predominantly in what would become Scottish territorial waters then the taxes would be ours, regardless of where the head office was based. However, we would lose access to the UKs sizable gas reserves that are in 'English' territorial waters. (Northern North Sea is mostly oil, Southern North Sea is mostly gas, the bit in the middle near Teeside is a mixture). I imagine deals would be required to supplement the gas that comes in to St Fergus if that wasn't enough for us (can't remember the production vs consumption figures off the top of my head). graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What would happen to the national (UK) deficit? If we're around 1.8 trillion in debt would an independent Scotland have to take a % of this with us?Too many unanswered questions for me. If the SNP could win the support of the 'undecided' punters out there they'd win any referendum but they'll only win that support if they give a clear and detailed indication (backed up by independent evidence) of how the country will be run and what it would mean for its citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trotter Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How much is be drilled out of UK territorial waters? How much is extracted in international waters but piped ashore in the UK (which is the point you can tax the product). All of it. The gas from the Northern North Sea comes ashore via St Fergus (some is produced at Sullom Voe and Cruden Bay but not massive amounts). Gas from the Norwegian, Danish, and Dutch sectors go to the respective countries first. Gas is piped to the UK from Norway via the Langeled pipeline but that is a top up for winter usually. Other pipelines arrive here at Bacton from Belgium (the Interconnector)and the Netherlands (BBL Pipeline) but again, the gas is processed in the respective countries first. To answer your question, yes, we can tax the product arriving here, but can't take production tax as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
After The Watershed Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The economy is in a bit of a mess just now. Partly because when things were going well no-one seemed to bother about a plan B If The Independent Socialist Republic of Scotlands Plan A is oil, what is the plan B? Whisky? Panda's? It's not all about the oil. In Scotland we have enough renewable sources to generate enough power for the country given its wind levels and rainfall. Windfarms, Sea turbines and Hydro would be enough allowing the country to look into the export of Gas rather than consumption. Hate to bring up norway again but I do believe in 2010 they exported 92% of the gas they produced. Probably much of it to us! The Whisky industry is still a growing export to Asia in particular which would bring more economic benifits. Tourism is another industry that would help the economy of Scotland. I'm not against joining the Euro for business reasons. This being one of them. In previous years a strong pound has hurt tourism from Europe and the USA. On the RBS question and any other bank we should be asking why did the government step in? Would it not have been better to safe guard all the customers savings rather than bail out the bank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy_Jambo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If Scotland goes independent will we still get the queens speech at xmas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've yet to be told a good reason for Independence. What good will independence do us as individuals? Other than "we'll control oor own destiny" - eh no, some tool of a politician will control our destiny, exactly like happens now, the only difference being he'd be based in Edinburgh and not in London. A lot more negatives banded about than positives. I don't know a lot about politics, but isn't there also a real danger we could go the way of Ireland i.e. bust. Very against independence, quite happy as things are. To be fair, UK PLC is pretty much bust at the moment too. As I've said before, I would back the devo-max option. I like devolution and think we are lucky to have Holyrood and so aren't as hit by the excesses of the Coalition Govt's ideological cull of the public services and their obvious pandering to financial institutions etc. This actually affords the chance to redesign the Union, by giving the rest of the UK devolution at the same level as Holyrood. A sort of federal UK would, imo, make the UK stronger, would extinguish the nationalist genie and bring prosperity to not just Scotland but all areas of the UK. However, if all that's on the table is a yes/no, I am so disillusioned by Westminster, especially this current mob who have no mandate at all imo, that I would seriously considered voting for independence. I'd rather we tried ourselves and if we fail so be it. Rather that than be bled to death by a bunch of arrogant, pseudo aristocratic toffs who quite frankly couldn't give a tinker's fart about anywhere outwith the South. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's okay folks, the Mail are here to put us all in our place: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2084464/Scotland-referendum-Like-need-need-us.html Wow. Some mind-boggling contradictions and hypocrisy in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Rothstein Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It's not all about the oil. In Scotland we have enough renewable sources to generate enough power for the country given its wind levels and rainfall. Windfarms, Sea turbines and Hydro would be enough allowing the country to look into the export of Gas rather than consumption. Hate to bring up norway again but I do believe in 2010 they exported 92% of the gas they produced. Probably much of it to us! The Whisky industry is still a growing export to Asia in particular which would bring more economic benifits. Tourism is another industry that would help the economy of Scotland. I'm not against joining the Euro for business reasons. This being one of them. In previous years a strong pound has hurt tourism from Europe and the USA. On the RBS question and any other bank we should be asking why did the government step in? Would it not have been better to safe guard all the customers savings rather than bail out the bank? I didn't really want to get into the 'should RBS have been bailed out?' argument more the 'could we have done it as an independent Scotland?'. But as an aside if we had been independent at the time and only safeguarded the savings instead of bailing them out, what about the thousands of people suddenly out of work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What would happen to the national (UK) deficit? If we're around 1.8 trillion in debt would an independent Scotland have to take a % of this with us?Too many unanswered questions for me. If the SNP could win the support of the 'undecided' punters out there they'd win any referendum but they'll only win that support if they give a clear and detailed indication (backed up by independent evidence) of how the country will be run and what it would mean for its citizens. I'm afraid that they can't give that indication because nobody would be bound to carry out policies on how the country will be run. What should be voted on is: 1) should the Scottish Government negotiate with HMG on terms for Scottish independence. That would allow a settlement on both assets and liabilities (share of the UK national debt etc) and the arrangements for joint actions etc. Domesday book for a new Scotland in other words. That should then be put to the public as such: 2) On the basis of the terms from 1) do you want Scotland to be an independent country. [i would prefer a 3rd referendum if Scotland does become independent on whether we should join the EU] - an example of how difficult it is to predict the future for an independent Scotland. Those with very strong convictions are all over this and other threads about how great/horrific the future for an independent Scotland would be. But the political environment following independence is not certain - and for example a decision to join/not join the EU could have significant effects. Myriad other examples - for example a low tax small Government economy could be a high growth economy in Scotland raising living standards substantially - but that is unlikely to be the outcome at least in the first few years when 'free mince' is likely to be the prevailing policy and there will be Big Government with big deficits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 We need to have a fran and open discussion on what the national anthem will be, if its as been mooted in the past 500 miles, it'll be a no from me. Im all for independance, **** it eh game for a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Grimes Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If further proof were need that independence is a serious option, Salmond demonstrates the smuggy whilst Cameron adopts the opposite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 That guy Luckhurst was on 5Live debating the issue yesterday. My ears couldn't take the condescending and I had to switch over. An absolute pleb. 'Tis quite incredible the venom which has come out of the UK media in the last day or so. Even the Grauniad are running similarly frothing stories! I guess this is the way it'll be for the next couple of years, in the absence of any real facts to base a decision on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Smashing headlines 'Independence = Hitler won' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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