Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You've mooted that Vlad holds onto Tynecastle while property and land value increases so he can re-coup more of his initial outlay and subsequent reckless spending. Surely UBIG can do the same with this site? I'm not sure why they are happy enough to wipe 10m off a bad property purchase but seem to want silly money for a football club which is draining their funds just as much, probably more so. UBIG could quite easily charge HMFC a rental for the use of Tynecastle if they exercised that option - the problem with St Andrew Square is that it is vacant and therefore not generating any rental income plus vacancy costs are also about to rise steeply therefore in the absence of finding a tenant or other use for the building cashing in is probably the best strategy at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 it was never an operating bank for Vlad nor was it bought as one Correct Teasy They did however hire recruitment people to do some headhunting. Given the financial situation after their failed application in Edinburgh they were lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Off course I would ..you meet much more interesting people in Shepherds market boozers than you do in The Hilton for example Hahaha - fair play. Personally, I'd be happy with company I was having dinner with, but when it's table for one I can see where you're coming from.... Only teasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was reliably informed over Christmas that Ukio owe the European Central Bank ?15 BILLION. This is quite obviously proof of this. Get some new underwear people, this is going to get messy nonsense The ECB dont fulfill that service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 UBIG could quite easily charge HMFC a rental for the use of Tynecastle if they exercised that option - the problem with St Andrew Square is that it is vacant and therefore not generating any rental income plus vacancy costs are also about to rise steeply therefore in the absence of finding a tenant or other use for the building cashing in is probably the best strategy at the moment. Ach well, it's only another 10 million flushed down the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Correct Teasy They did however hire recruitment people to do some headhunting. Given the financial situation after their failed application in Edinburgh they were lucky cheers TC I posted back in July that the building was being prepared for sale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ach well, it's only another 10 million flushed down the toilet. It's only flushed down the toilet if they can't consolidate the loss and offset it against corporation taxes due on the profitable parts of their business ..... if they can use some or all of he loss to offset taxes then it would be the LT tax-payer that suffers the loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you were staying at a 5 Star Hotel, why would you "nip out" for a pre-dinner cocktail, rather than use the bar of said 5 Star establishment? Showing your lack of breeding there Col.! It was never intended to be a 5 star hotel in the first place. The actual status would depend on which hotel operator took it on and fitted it out but according to the people I talked to at the open day they were looking at three, maybe four stars to be operated by Great Western, Novotel or some such. But again we shouldn't let the facts get in the way of the Colonel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 nonsense The ECB dont fulfill that service No underwear department in the ECB? What's the world coming to!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinger Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 can someone copy and paste pls, can't get in to it Hearts owner Vladimir Romanov is set to take a multi-million pound hit as he prepares to sell off a historic bank building he bought at the height of the economic boom. Romanov?s investment company UBIG bought the former Royal Bank of Scotland headquarters ? which includes one A-listed building in St Andrew Square that is linked by a bridge to another more modern building in West Register Street ? for around ?20 million in 2007 in order to turn them into a boutique hotel. But the company is now selling off the West Register Street part of the site to a hotel developer and is also understood to be willing to listen to offers for the historic main building next door as it attempts to bring in much-needed funds. The Evening News understands the buildings at 38-52 West Register Street are now under offer to a hotel developer, with a deal expected to be concluded in the coming months. Property experts say that the buildings ? which have been lying empty for years ? will be lucky to bring in half the ?20m figure they were bought for. Charles Guest, a partner at property firm Ryden, said: ?It is a magnificant site and if it was in London it would, ironically, be the headquarters of some foreign bank but there?s not a lot of demand for that here. He [Romanov] paid a top of the market price for it at the top of the market and hence lies the problem. He?ll be lucky if he gets as much as half that now.? The main building dates back to 1942 and remained the headquarters of RBS until 2006, when it opened its new Gogarburn campus. The West Register Street building, which was used for RBS administrative functions, is a more modern addition and was expected to be refurbished by UBIG, but a planning application has never been submitted. Mark Jones, a director at property firm DTZ, which is responsible for selling the West Register Street building on behalf of UBIG, said: ?It is a good quality core city centre site close to the station and the trams when they are operational, with links to the airport. ?It is also an internationally well-known location and all these factors make it attractive to retail, hotel, office or whatever else.? The West Register Street building includes a retail unit on the ground floor and offices above, as well as a Greggs bakery, and stretches back as far as the Cafe Royal. The other building, at 42 St Andrew Square, was added to Scotland?s Buildings At Risk Register because of concerns about ?signs of deterioration? and its lengthy spell of being vacant. Cllr Tom Buchanan, the city?s economic development leader, said: ?Like gap sites, you don?t want buildings lying empty for considerable amounts of time. ?We would be keen to see some form of development around that site and if a hotel operator came forward we would not discourage that. ?It would add to the living nature of the street because more people would be about the street for longer. ?I am sure UBIG would also be keen to get some return on the investment they made at the top of the market.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs another example of the business nous of Mr Romanov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john brownlee Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No and didn't say it was - just what I've heard on legal/property circles. Proof that he arse the deal up will be in the purchase versus sale price. The irony is that building is probably more of an asset with more potential future value than Hearts... Ubig must have a great need for cash. wrong its a one purpose building cant be used for anything else than offices do you know how long some office buildings in edinburgh have been lying empty (murray buildings for one) so just another thinly disguised envey post btw everybody has a need for cash its called being in business and not everybody can wander down to the bruo to collect theirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adeb74 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Would make a braw theatre! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was reliably informed over Christmas that Ukio owe the European Central Bank ?15 BILLION. This is quite obviously proof of this. As they say in the plumbing trade - ballcocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 A promienent poster told me before Xmas it was going to sold to a down market hotel chain.... i.e travelodge etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 A promienent poster told me before Xmas it was going to sold to a down market hotel chain.... i.e travelodge etc.. Cockburn Street, Topshop Princes Street & Woolworths are already all to open shortly as budget-stay hotels in the coming months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 As they say in the plumbing trade - ballcocks! :'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Is it not the case that the St Andrew's Square property is not being sold in this deal - it is the adjacent building in West Register Street. The approach has been made by the development company on behalf of their client (hotel chain). So much of this thread is the usual pish ignoring the facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The St Andrews sq deal is held up as the worst in Edinburgh..Ubig are considered a joke, with that and trying to raise finance for a development at Tynecastle which included a 5 star hotel...You can just see guests nipping out of The Gorgie Hyatt Regency to the Tynie Arms for a predinner cocktail. The value of Ubigs assets is as illusory as the value of their people. Don't remember it ever being referred to as a 5 star hotel. And UBIG are a joke compared to what? RBS? HBOS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Is it not the case that the St Andrew's Square property is not being sold in this deal - it is the adjacent building in West Register Street. The approach has been made by the development company on behalf of their client (hotel chain). So much of this thread is the usual pish ignoring the facts Yes. It does help if you read the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 A promienent poster told me before Xmas it was going to sold to a down market hotel chain.... i.e travelodge etc.. I read somewhere yesterday that Travelodge are opening 2 new hotels in Edinburgh. Not in St Andrews Square but Queens street and Princes Street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I read somewhere yesterday that Travelodge are opening 2 new hotels in Edinburgh. Not in St Andrews Square but Queens street and Princes Street That was probably here http://local.stv.tv/...urgh-locations/ The Queen Street one will be at 30 Queen Street http://www2.travelodge.co.uk/search_and_book/hotel_overview.php?hotel_id=543 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowie2369 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm not sure it does prove that, tbh. Yes, things will no doubt be tight but perhaps it could be seen as shedding the dead weight, rather than trying to raise capital? Even an empty building will cost UBIG so getting shot of it will take that expense out of the equation. The proof is that he seems unable to pay the wages he is responsible for paying. If someone at the club decided to steer the club in this direction then i would have expected sackings, however despite massive losses there have been no sackings. Buying properties and letting them lie empty, selling them at knockdown rates after four years of nought? Ok maybe he doesnt have a cashflow problem but there most certainly is a problem. Personally I think it's a bit of both. Hearts contracted to pay these wages, why has Romanov suddenly decided not to pay? If this was my company and i did not sanction these wages id be sacking the people responsible, I would then pay the wages, unless of course i didnt have the money. It's quite simple really. He either pays or does not pay. Unless he pays people can rightly assume he does not have the money. The only other option is that he is a complete fool, unless wages are paid, which he seems to manage when the sh1t really hits the fan, the club could be put into admin. FACT. The players will always be entitled to their contracts and VR messing around costs more money for an inevitable outcome. Example: If you bought a car for ?15k for your daughter to use you are still liable for the payments. The finance company will chase you as the owner if payments fall behind. Eventually they will take your car, or your house, whatever is required to pay for what you signed up for. He's dishonest and continually makes libelous statements against all sorts. He's already had a pop at players and mgrs, at some point it will be the supporters. Best thing folks can do is not renew season tickets until he pays the wages. He needs to accept responsibility for what he is liable for, regardless of who ran up the debt, that is part of his role as owner. Its an idea - tin helmet on :-) I think VR is far more likely to knock down his price if he loses the support. This will not be an issue for the new owner as the support will buycott VR - NOT HEARTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Actually the Lithuanian Government did step in to intervene when "Snoras" another independantly owned Lithuanian bank ran into trouble. Like Northern Rock it's was nationalised in order to protect depositors. You can read more about it in the FT or look at the FAQ on their website http://www.snoras.co.../news?item=3415 Investigations were ongoing last time I saw but there appeared to have been fraud going on at a fairly high level with assets being claimed that either didn't exist or weren't worth that much. Portsmouth FC "owner" Vladimir Antonov was arrested and bailed in connection with the case. I'm guessing that if you've seen the occasional "Vlad's bank in Lithuania has gone bust" rumour then it was probably a case of chinese whispers starting with this story. Ukio Bankas wasn't implicated and in fact got the contract to handle reimbursing Snoras customers on behalf of the government the Ukio share price dipped dramatically amid fears of contagion but then recovered to roughly where it had been. There was a brief rush of funds out of Lithuanian banks but as the panic about contagion receded this was reversed. This is the backdrop we should put Vladimir Romanov's recent actions against. More than ever Ukio Bankas and by extension Vlad will have to be running a pretty tight ship and handing bucketloads of easy credit to the owners vanity projects abroad is going to be less of an affordable luxury. You are correct that Snoras was nationalised on 16th November, but the government declared it bankrupt a week later. The news item you linked to was from the day before it went bankrupt. Ukio Bankas however has benefited as you say from the demise of a competitor bank, both in picking up business from the government tidy up of Snoras and ex-customers of Snoras opening new accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Independence Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 1326207325[/url]' post='2646634']Don't remember it ever being referred to as a 5 star hotel. And UBIG are a joke compared to what? RBS? HBOS? Spot on thank the stars that Fred the Shred was not a Hearts fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The proof is that he seems unable to pay the wages he is responsible for paying. If someone at the club decided to steer the club in this direction then i would have expected sackings, however despite massive losses there have been no sackings. Buying properties and letting them lie empty, selling them at knockdown rates after four years of nought? Ok maybe he doesnt have a cashflow problem but there most certainly is a problem. Personally I think it's a bit of both. Hearts contracted to pay these wages, why has Romanov suddenly decided not to pay? If this was my company and i did not sanction these wages id be sacking the people responsible, I would then pay the wages, unless of course i didnt have the money. It's quite simple really. He either pays or does not pay. Unless he pays people can rightly assume he does not have the money. The only other option is that he is a complete fool, unless wages are paid, which he seems to manage when the sh1t really hits the fan, the club could be put into admin. FACT. The players will always be entitled to their contracts and VR messing around costs more money for an inevitable outcome. Example: If you bought a car for ?15k for your daughter to use you are still liable for the payments. The finance company will chase you as the owner if payments fall behind. Eventually they will take your car, or your house, whatever is required to pay for what you signed up for. He's dishonest and continually makes libelous statements against all sorts. He's already had a pop at players and mgrs, at some point it will be the supporters. Best thing folks can do is not renew season tickets until he pays the wages. He needs to accept responsibility for what he is liable for, regardless of who ran up the debt, that is part of his role as owner. Its an idea - tin helmet on :-) I think VR is far more likely to knock down his price if he loses the support. This will not be an issue for the new owner as the support will buycott VR - NOT HEARTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Travelodge are opening at 30 Queen Street and above Topshop in Princes Street, Motel One are opening in the upper floors of the Old Woolworths Building at Princes Street East End, work is also currently ongoing to open a new budget hotel chain at the foot of Cockburn street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 You are correct that Snoras was nationalised on 16th November, but the government declared it bankrupt a week later. The news item you linked to was from the day before it went bankrupt. Ukio Bankas however has benefited as you say from the demise of a competitor bank, both in picking up business from the government tidy up of Snoras and ex-customers of Snoras opening new accounts. But suffered from the dent in confidence in a sector that was already pretty dented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 But suffered from the dent in confidence in a sector that was already pretty dented. Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The proof is that he seems unable to pay the wages he is responsible for paying.......Best thing folks can do is not renew season tickets until he pays the wages. How can he pay the wages if, as you state at the very beginning of your post, he is unable to do so? Surely the best way to get the wages paid, as you state Vlad is unable to do so, would be to encourage people to buy their season tickets sooner rather than later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can't be bothered reading. Can someone tell me - concisely - why I should give the slightest shiny shite about this? Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can't be bothered reading. Can someone tell me - concisely - why I should give the slightest shiny shite about this? Cheers! End is nigh, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't.... repeat to fade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can't be bothered reading. Can someone tell me - concisely - why I should give the slightest shiny shite about this? Cheers! Ermmm.. Naw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 End is nigh, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't.... repeat to fade Ermmm.. Naw That's what I thought. Thank-you kindly, good chaps. Enjoy your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can't be bothered reading. Can someone tell me - concisely - why I should give the slightest shiny shite about this? Cheers! I'm playing POP bingo. I've got JR & JT scored off. I'm just waiting on MT and I'll be shouting "house". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Can't be bothered reading. Can someone tell me - concisely - why I should give the slightest shiny shite about this? Cheers! I'm struggling to understand why this is in the Terrace as it is not directly related to Hearts FC at all. A comparison would be a massive thread on some Aberdeen FC forum because Stewart Milne had sold a house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How can he pay the wages if, as you state at the very beginning of your post, he is unable to do so? Surely the best way to get the wages paid, as you state Vlad is unable to do so, would be to encourage people to buy their season tickets sooner rather than later? The wages were actually paid last week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Personally, I believe that UBIG does have finacial issues. Whether or not they are terminal is open to debate but Vlad appears to be taking a number of actions to relieve or correct the risks to the business. Restricting Hearts cashflow is one part of it. The sale of non-performing assets is another. Moving the bulk of Hearts debt from Ukio to UBIG may well have been done to protect the balance sheet of Ukio, but may have been little more than a paper shuffling exercise.. I looked at Ukio's position a couple of months ago and I believe that something like 23% or 24% of their loans were to its parent company (UBIG). Lithuanian banking law limits such lending to 25%. Vlad has also sold or transferred 15% of Hearts shares to a Swiss based company, Quantum Holding SA. I don't know if this is another company in the UBIG portfolio, although Julia Gornacuk was a director for a few months when it was first formed around 7 years ago. Before anyone asks, I can't be bothered digging out the sources I used previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowie2369 Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How can he pay the wages if, as you state at the very beginning of your post, he is unable to do so? Surely the best way to get the wages paid, as you state Vlad is unable to do so, would be to encourage people to buy their season tickets sooner rather than later? No because he will squander more money, just as he has done to get us where we are. The best thing for both parties is for this clown to bugg3r off, the longer he stays the more damage will be done. Im embarrased by the p1sh that man releases to the media. Not once has he commented on our current finances, how we got here and his role in that. It's always monkey this mafia that. How about telling us who was asleep at the wheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How about telling us who was asleep at the wheel? Was it Pat Stanton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 No sign in the interbank offered market in Lithuania that there is any problem with banks there at the moment - rates very low compared to historic levels. Ukio Bankas appear to have got an equity issue away too so unlikely to be any problems there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasha Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 i have been dancing round my laptop trying to work out WTF this was..... Drunken YMCA???? Just spotted the link where u got the image from. for me........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It was never intended to be a 5 star hotel in the first place. The actual status would depend on which hotel operator took it on and fitted it out but according to the people I talked to at the open day they were looking at three, maybe four stars to be operated by Great Western, Novotel or some such. But again we shouldn't let the facts get in the way of the Colonel Yes it was It was pitched for finance at a presentation at Cannes as a 5 star hotel..maybe you should stick to open days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm playing POP bingo. I've got JR & JT scored off. I'm just waiting on MT and I'll be shouting "house". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Was it Pat Stanton? Arf...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Oh, how I would laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daydream Believer Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 It's only flushed down the toilet if they can't consolidate the loss and offset it against corporation taxes due on the profitable parts of their business ..... if they can use some or all of he loss to offset taxes then it would be the LT tax-payer that suffers the loss. Only if the Lithuanian corporation tax rate is 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The apparent desperation to see him fail and the subsequent glee taken by some Hearts supporters is sickening. The man never stood a chance. Sadly this is true and possibly one of the reasons he is now heading off. As regards comments re his business acumen I would say buying the Hearts was his worst business decision by some distance..just how bad time will probably show. Funnily the glee may not last when our pool of amazingly talented Scottish boys also fail to win the Champions League , SPL, Cups etc and we try to keep going while servicing our debts. For those of us who have seen years of below mediocrity and don't have 50 years left to see us eventually win the league it is all a bit sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Correct Teasy They did however hire recruitment people to do some headhunting. Given the financial situation after their failed application in Edinburgh they were lucky They employed a number of staff in Edinburgh. I met some of them and they were based in Castle Street, which I have been in. This building was never earmarked as a branch or office for UKIO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornhillHearts Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a joke figure; it is indeed a joke figure and people on here espouse what a clever and astute businessman he is. Not only did he buy at or near the peak apparently he didn't do any proper due diligence on the building and/or what was required to do any work on it. Anyway only goes to prove what I said the other week - ubig obviously need cash and ARE prepared to take a haircut on its initial investment price to get it. Hopefully good news for us in getting rid of the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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