Coco Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Interesting development. http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/hearts_owner_to_cut_losses_on_old_bank_building_1_2046269 I wonder if UBIG are strapped for cash or are merely trying to pull out of their various UK investments. What a lot of money they have lost in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beats Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Link isn't working for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Link isn't working for me Will try again. UBIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 worked for me. I suspect it is more just shedding any UK interest rtaher than being desperate for cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyjambo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Sniff,sniff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a joke figure and people on here espouse what a clever and astute businessman he is. Not only did he buy at or near the peak apparently he didn't do any proper due diligence on the building and/or what was required to do any work on it. Anyway only goes to prove what I said the other week - ubig obviously need cash and ARE prepared to take a haircut on its initial investment price to get it. Hopefully good news for us in getting rid of the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Sniff,sniff! The bad penny always turns up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a joke figure and people on here espouse what a clever and astute businessman he is. Not only did he buy at or near the peak apparently he didn't do any proper due diligence on the building and/or what was required to do any work on it. Anyway only goes to prove what I said the other week - ubig obviously need cash and ARE prepared to take a haircut on its initial investment price to get it. Hopefully good news for us in getting rid of the tool. that is proof now, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 that is proof now, is it? good enough for jammy todger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Anyway only goes to prove what I said the other week - ubig obviously need cash and ARE prepared to take a haircut on its initial investment price to get it. I'm not sure it does prove that, tbh. Yes, things will no doubt be tight but perhaps it could be seen as shedding the dead weight, rather than trying to raise capital? Even an empty building will cost UBIG so getting shot of it will take that expense out of the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 can someone copy and paste pls, can't get in to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a joke figure and people on here espouse what a clever and astute businessman he is. Not only did he buy at or near the peak apparently he didn't do any proper due diligence on the building and/or what was required to do any work on it. Anyway only goes to prove what I said the other week - ubig obviously need cash and ARE prepared to take a haircut on its initial investment price to get it. Hopefully good news for us in getting rid of the tool. Quite a dumb post JT when much of the global financial crisis is the fall out from the bursting of several property and assets bubbles and securities derivatives there-of ........... of course only Romanov has lost money right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No and didn't say it was - just what I've heard on legal/property circles. Proof that he arse the deal up will be in the purchase versus sale price. The irony is that building is probably more of an asset with more potential future value than Hearts... Ubig must have a great need for cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Apparently this was also one of the harbingers of Doomsday predicted in the Mayan calendar. Its PROOF, if PROOF is needed that the end of the world is night. I just hope you all have clean underwear on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Winstone Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a joke figure and people on here espouse what a clever and astute businessman he is. Not only did he buy at or near the peak apparently he didn't do any proper due diligence on the building and/or what was required to do any work on it. Anyway only goes to prove what I said the other week - ubig obviously need cash and ARE prepared to take a haircut on its initial investment price to get it. Hopefully good news for us in getting rid of the tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Quite a dumb post JT when much of the global financial crisis is the fall out from the bursting of several property and assets bubbles and securities derivatives there-of ........... of course only Romanov has lost money right? not at all. He's also screwed up 2 football clubs. Just commenting that he isn't half the business whizz he is made out to be on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No and didn't say it was - just what I've heard on legal/property circles. Proof that he arse the deal up will be in the purchase versus sale price. The irony is that building is probably more of an asset with more potential future value than Hearts... Ubig must have a great need for cash. You did. And even if he does take a loss, it proves nothing. Many businessmen take a hit on investments and lose money, especially at this time. The fact he is accepting it and big enough to cut his loss before it worsens is a sign of a good business man and he may just do the same at Hearts at some point. There is also the fact his bank has not been bailed out by his Government, unlike some of the bigesst banks in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loveofthegame Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Has that building not been empty since VR/UBIG bought it?! Another complete waste of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 No and didn't say it was - just what I've heard on legal/property circles. Proof that he arse the deal up will be in the purchase versus sale price. The irony is that building is probably more of an asset with more potential future value than Hearts... Ubig must have a great need for cash. Their St Andrew Square property investment will be far easier to liquidate than HMFC - as you say it's still a prime property - Motel One are building a new hotel in the adjacent former Woolworths building and raising a sale of that site is probably a far easier and quicker sale than HMFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Ubig must have a great need for cash. Again, you are making that assumption. Every business, more or less, is cutting its cloth during this economic period. If I were UBIG and was looking at my portfolio of assets and saw one that was dormant and eating money I'd be tempted to cut my losses on it too. Why throw good money after bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Has that building not been empty since VR/UBIG bought it?! Another complete waste of money. I don't know, but I know his other one on Castle Street has not been,(having been in it on a few occassions), despite the claims of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The fact he is accepting it and big enough to cut his loss before it worsens is a sign of a good business man and he may just do the same at Hearts at some point. There is also the fact his bank has not been bailed out by his Government, unlike some of the bigesst banks in the world. your first para is part of the point I was making re the second - the bank is tiny by global scales. It wouldn't have been bailed out, it's a tiddler. Although it hasn't gone bust, granted. Not sure what the relevance is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Their St Andrew Square property investment will be far easier to liquidate than HMFC - as you say it's still a prime property - Motel One are building a new hotel in the adjacent former Woolworths building and raising a sale of that site is probably a far easier and quicker sale than HMFC. Agree and obviously the price will now be more sensible than in 2007. Putting one of the buildings up for sale and not the other also suggests that the situation is a more orderly disposal of assets than a rush for cash. That said UBIG's actions in the UK - running out of cash at Hearts and beginning the sale of their real estate assets can also be easily construed as a state of incipient financial distress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 not at all. He's also screwed up 2 football clubs. Just commenting that he isn't half the business whizz he is made out to be on here Perhaps not but Iam sure he still has far more money than you or I ever will (barring mass or hyper-inflation) and he still provided us with some of the fondest HMFC memories since 1998 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 your first para is part of the point I was making re the second - the bank is tiny by global scales. It wouldn't have been bailed out, it's a tiddler. Although it hasn't gone bust, granted. Not sure what the relevance is? It is very relevant, in that, it may be small by global standards, but not by its respective country's standard, and the fact it has rode the storm far better than some of the world's biggest banks, at least for now, despite having less resource or ability to soak up the bad times, suggests he is not incompetent - so it is very relevant and if you can not see this, then I am sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Agree and obviously the price will now be more sensible than in 2007. Putting one of the buildings up for sale and not the other also suggests that the situation is a more orderly disposal of assets than a rush for cash. That said UBIG's actions in the UK - running out of cash at Hearts and beginning the sale of their real estate assets can also be easily construed as a state of incipient financial distress. Or simply a desire to dispose of unprofitable and non-performing parts of their portfolio? The UK market hasn't and won't recover quickly so it has been a dud investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 That said UBIG's actions in the UK - running out of cash at Hearts and beginning the sale of their real estate assets can also be easily construed as a state of incipient financial distress. UBIG haven't run out of cash at Hearts though. It is Hearts who have run out of cash and their sugar daddy is unwilling to bail them out again. Re selling off property, I'm sure there is belt tightening going on throughout the business world. As I said, why keep an asset that is costing you money and you have no wish to develop that asset? Getting rid seems a smart move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Again, you are making that assumption. Every business, more or less, is cutting its cloth during this economic period. If I were UBIG and was looking at my portfolio of assets and saw one that was dormant and eating money I'd be tempted to cut my losses on it too. Why throw good money after bad? of course it is supposition clearly it was a bad deal and clearly ubig are not hanging around to get better value. Personally I am happy that this indicates we will be rid of Romanov from hearts sooner than later. Ubig will take a hit on what they paid/perceived value. It's all positive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 European Banks have to raise their tier-1 capital levels it's probably related to that imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re selling off property, I'm sure there is belt tightening going on throughout the business world. As I said, why keep an asset that is costing you money and you have no wish to develop that asset? Getting rid seems a smart move. just as is the case with hearts - which is the good bit. Not sure we are disagreeing about much, possibly other than how big a tool and how bad a bussonessman Romanov is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 European Banks have to raise their tier-1 capital levels it's probably related to that imo. so ubig do need to raise cash.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 so ubig do need to raise cash.... Or conversely reduce their assets - it's a ratio afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 UBIG haven't run out of cash at Hearts though. It is Hearts who have run out of cash and their sugar daddy is unwilling to bail them out again. How do you know that? The company has only been kept alive for years due to UBIG providing financial support. They appear to have cut that off. Did they want to cut it off or did they have to? That isn't clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Changes to Empty Property Rates Relief will see more such sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rods Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a joke figure and people on here espouse what a clever and astute businessman he is. Not only did he buy at or near the peak apparently he didn't do any proper due diligence on the building and/or what was required to do any work on it. Anyway only goes to prove what I said the other week - ubig obviously need cash and ARE prepared to take a haircut on its initial investment price to get it. Hopefully good news for us in getting rid of the tool. Where is agree on wanting to get rid of the tool I dont beleive your argument to be fair. I use the example of RBS they bought ABN Amro bank at its peak in a bidding war and now that side of the company is worth less than half. I would say the people involved in that deal were astute buisness men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fermit the Krog Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The apparent desperation to see him fail and the subsequent glee taken by some Hearts supporters is sickening. The man never stood a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 How do you know that? The company has only been kept alive for years due to UBIG providing financial support. They appear to have cut that off. Did they want to cut it off or did they have to? That isn't clear. Obviously I don't know, just as you don't know that they have run out of cash. Personally I think they have the ability to fund if they want but at the moment UBIG are "streamlining" their asset portfolio i.e. getting rid of the millstones round their neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share Posted January 10, 2012 Obviously I don't know, just as you don't know that they have run out of cash. Personally I think they have the ability to fund if they want but at the moment UBIG are "streamlining" their asset portfolio i.e. getting rid of the millstones round their neck. Thats why I have been putting both arguments forward on this thread. As for UBIG, I think that the last time they made their accounts public - for 2008 - from memory their total assets were worth c. ?160m. A combination of Hearts and the St Andrew Square buildings were a big proportion of this and if there are big losses on both then it will leave a big hole in that company's balance sheet. There has been a website showing a subsidiary of UBIG which says that the parent company's assets are now worth c. E900m or so. Find it hard to believe that there was such a big rise during the recession (though maybe assets were injected from elsewhere in the Romanov portfolio?), but if it is the case it will make it easier to get out of the Edinburgh businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Re selling off property, I'm sure there is belt tightening going on throughout the business world. As I said, why keep an asset that is costing you money and you have no wish to develop that asset? Getting rid seems a smart move. The cost of keeping empty properties, waiting for the Market to recover, is about to take a big jump. UBIG will only be one of many businesses trying to move empty comercial properties out of their portfolio over the next two or three months. http://www.alexandersloan.co.uk/news-item/empty-property-rate-relief-be-cut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Or simply a desire to dispose of unprofitable and non-performing parts of their portfolio? The UK market hasn't and won't recover quickly so it has been a dud investment. You've mooted that Vlad holds onto Tynecastle while property and land value increases so he can re-coup more of his initial outlay and subsequent reckless spending. Surely UBIG can do the same with this site? I'm not sure why they are happy enough to wipe 10m off a bad property purchase but seem to want silly money for a football club which is draining their funds just as much, probably more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 of course it is supposition clearly it was a bad deal and clearly ubig are not hanging around to get better value. Personally I am happy that this indicates we will be rid of Romanov from hearts sooner than later. Ubig will take a hit on what they paid/perceived value. It's all positive The St Andrews sq deal is held up as the worst in Edinburgh..Ubig are considered a joke, with that and trying to raise finance for a development at Tynecastle which included a 5 star hotel...You can just see guests nipping out of The Gorgie Hyatt Regency to the Tynie Arms for a predinner cocktail. The value of Ubigs assets is as illusory as the value of their people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Where will all that branch's customers do their banking now? :'> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 your first para is part of the point I was making re the second - the bank is tiny by global scales. It wouldn't have been bailed out, it's a tiddler. Although it hasn't gone bust, granted. Not sure what the relevance is? Actually the Lithuanian Government did step in to intervene when "Snoras" another independantly owned Lithuanian bank ran into trouble. Like Northern Rock it's was nationalised in order to protect depositors. You can read more about it in the FT or look at the FAQ on their website http://www.snoras.com/en/about/news?item=3415 Investigations were ongoing last time I saw but there appeared to have been fraud going on at a fairly high level with assets being claimed that either didn't exist or weren't worth that much. Portsmouth FC "owner" Vladimir Antonov was arrested and bailed in connection with the case. I'm guessing that if you've seen the occasional "Vlad's bank in Lithuania has gone bust" rumour then it was probably a case of chinese whispers starting with this story. Ukio Bankas wasn't implicated and in fact got the contract to handle reimbursing Snoras customers on behalf of the government the Ukio share price dipped dramatically amid fears of contagion but then recovered to roughly where it had been. There was a brief rush of funds out of Lithuanian banks but as the panic about contagion receded this was reversed. This is the backdrop we should put Vladimir Romanov's recent actions against. More than ever Ukio Bankas and by extension Vlad will have to be running a pretty tight ship and handing bucketloads of easy credit to the owners vanity projects abroad is going to be less of an affordable luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynie b Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The apparent desperation to see him fail and the subsequent glee taken by some Hearts supporters is sickening. The man never stood a chance. I wil take great delight in seeing him Fail, AFTER he leaves us. Once the wee lunatic has ****** Off I hope all his businesses go down the tubes. I hope he is treated with the same contempt as he treats everyone else....Karma!! Never trusted the man, never will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The St Andrews sq deal is held up as the worst in Edinburgh..Ubig are considered a joke, with that and trying to raise finance for a development at Tynecastle which included a 5 star hotel...You can just see guests nipping out of The Gorgie Hyatt Regency to the Tynie Arms for a predinner cocktail. The value of Ubigs assets is as illusory as the value of their people. If you were staying at a 5 Star Hotel, why would you "nip out" for a pre-dinner cocktail, rather than use the bar of said 5 Star establishment? Showing your lack of breeding there Col.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Changes to Empty Property Rates Relief will see more such sales. Come on now, let's not allow some inconvenient facts to get in the way of the rants, knicker wetting, and drama queens, - that's not how things are done on JKB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel Kurtz Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you were staying at a 5 Star Hotel, why would you "nip out" for a pre-dinner cocktail, rather than use the bar of said 5 Star establishment? Showing your lack of breeding there Col.! Off course I would ..you meet much more interesting people in Shepherds market boozers than you do in The Hilton for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Where will all that branch's customers do their banking now? :'> it was never an operating bank for Vlad nor was it bought as one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the general Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 The St Andrews sq deal is held up as the worst in Edinburgh..Ubig are considered a joke, with that and trying to raise finance for a development at Tynecastle which included a 5 star hotel...You can just see guests nipping out of The Gorgie Hyatt Regency to the Tynie Arms for a predinner cocktail. The value of Ubigs assets is as illusory as the value of their people. to be fair Stevie and Nod rustle up a mean mojito but their Tom Collins is gash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I was reliably informed over Christmas that Ukio owe the European Central Bank ?15 BILLION. This is quite obviously proof of this. Get some new underwear people, this is going to get messy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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