support for independence keeps growing.

[kinross jambo]

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2186407.0.SNP_hails_increased_support_for_Scottish_independence.php

[CompleteIdiot]

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2186407.0.SNP_hails_increased_support_for_Scottish_independence.php

 

Excellent stuff.

[Drew Busby !]

http://www.theherald.co.uk/politics/news/display.var.2186407.0.SNP_hails_increased_support_for_Scottish_independence.php

 

As a nationalist I'm not unhappy with that upswing although I know that in reality these polls are always highly variable.

 

On the plus side I think the general timing is right for Salmonds referendum in a couple of years. In Scotland, Labour are ongoing shambolic under Wendy and the Lib-dems a complete joke under Nicol Stephen. UK wide, Labour are 2 years away from being kicked out of office. Thats even assuming that Brown is still there to lead them, they're about to get their asses kicked in local elections down south in May which will damage him even further.

 

So it's all about timing. Fast forward a couple years. Labour on their uppers. Tories back as the UK government with perhaps a decade of power in front of them. Play all the right cards and we could yet have independence in the next 5 to 10 years...

 

Yup, it's all to play for.

[Toggie88]

As a nationalist I'm not unhappy with that upswing although I know that in reality these polls are always highly variable.

 

On the plus side I think the general timing is right for Salmonds referendum in a couple of years. In Scotland, Labour are ongoing shambolic under Wendy and the Lib-dems a complete joke under Nicol Stephen. UK wide, Labour are 2 years away from being kicked out of office. Thats even assuming that Brown is still there to lead them, they're about to get their asses kicked in local elections down south in May which will damage him even further.

 

So it's all about timing. Fast forward a couple years. Labour on their uppers. Tories back as the UK government with perhaps a decade of power in front of them. Play all the right cards and we could yet have independence in the next 5 to 10 years...

 

Yup, it's all to play for.

 

I agree, what will happen as well is that Labour down south will start campaigning for more left wing policies when the tories get in. They will be unable to that up here though, as the SNP is left of Labour.

 

Labour are Friar Tucked. I wouldn't be surprised if their were a few defections over the next couple of years.

[Csaba's Broon Shoes]

This SNP party rips ma knitting and it's tartan army supporters

 

How can people born in the United Kingdom decide many years later they

 

now want a new country without moving home

 

If anything we will be a weaker and poorer poxy little country without

 

the union .

 

It's just an anti-English demonstration party attention seeking .

 

Support for independance keeps growing - ma chorus and verse , naw it disnae

 

A bunch of pure heid the bawz

[Drew Busby !]

This SNP party rips ma knitting and it's tartan army supporters

 

How can people born in the United Kingdom decide many years later they

 

now want a new country without moving home

 

If anything we will be a weaker and poorer poxy little country without

 

the union .

 

It's just an anti-English demonstration party attention seeking .

 

Support for independance keeps growing - ma chorus and verse , naw it disnae

 

Scotland 5M people

...

Finland 5.3M people

Denmark 5.5M people

Norway 4.8M people

Sweden 9M people

Iceland 0.3M people

 

All neighbours of ours. Weak, poor and poxy countries would you say ?

[jambo121]

Scotland 5M people

...

Finland 5.3M people

Denmark 5.5M people

Norway 4.8M people

Sweden 9M people

Iceland 0.3M people

 

All neighbours of ours. Weak, poor and poxy countries would you say ?

 

Certainly weaker than the Union we have at the moment. I for one won't be staying in this country should the Gnats get there way.

 

Also a quick question, why in this so called referendum is there no option for the move back to the British Government and scrap this poxy waste of money parliament we have?

[luckydug]

This SNP party rips ma knitting and it's tartan army supporters

 

How can people born in the United Kingdom decide many years later they

 

now want a new country without moving home

 

If anything we will be a weaker and poorer poxy little country without

 

the union .

 

It's just an anti-English demonstration party attention seeking .

 

Support for independance keeps growing - ma chorus and verse , naw it disnae

A bunch of pure heid the bawz[/quote

 

 

 

 

Just wait until the Tories get in after the next UK election after they have shafted Scotland to appease the anti-Scottish feelings down south the UK will be historyIMO.

It depends where your heart lies.I'm Scottish and I want Scotland to take responsibility for itself. Its a matter of self respect and is it not the case that Scotland is a nation and the the UK is a collection of countries so the jibe about wanting a new country is the wrong way round.

[Deek]

Certainly weaker than the Union we have at the moment. I for one won't be staying in this country should the Gnats get there way.

 

Also a quick question, why in this so called referendum is there no option for the move back to the British Government and scrap this poxy waste of money parliament we have?

 

You will be a sad loss.

 

I for one am proud to be Scottish then British.

 

If independence did come around (which I doubt) I would be a proud member of the commenwealth.

 

We are a democracy and we should stand by this.

[Tott]

Scotland 5M people

...

Finland 5.3M people

Denmark 5.5M people

Norway 4.8M people

Sweden 9M people

Iceland 0.3M people

 

All neighbours of ours. Weak, poor and poxy countries would you say ?

 

Weaker yes..insignificant countries.....totally

 

 

 

SNP crap on here is more repetitive than "manager threads" on the main board.

[jambo121]

You will be a sad loss.

 

I for one am proud to be Scottish then British.

 

If independence did come around (which I doubt) I would be a proud member of the commenwealth.

 

We are a democracy and we should stand by this.

 

I will mate honest.

 

I too am a proud Scot but don't need independence to prove it.

 

We are a democracy, you are correct and if the democratic process was followed then would we have the Scottish Government we have at the moment given the lost votes??????

 

Democracy is overated and a card people like to pull when it suits.

 

Joke County's such as Italy and now Scotland use PR and that is the only reason the Gnats have got close to governing.

[southlondonjambo]

This SNP party rips ma knitting and it's tartan army supporters

 

How can people born in the United Kingdom decide many years later they

 

now want a new country without moving home

 

If anything we will be a weaker and poorer poxy little country without

 

the union .

 

It's just an anti-English demonstration party attention seeking .

 

Support for independance keeps growing - ma chorus and verse , naw it disnae

 

A bunch of pure heid the bawz

 

So I've got to continually work 12-14 hour shifts in order to fund your free council housing and drink and drug habit? All under the pretenses of this 'union'? Cheers.

 

I Would love to be able afford some luxuries - sadly all my hard-earned money is being shipped northwards to pay for the feckless likes of you who continually leech off London....

 

The Scottish Nationalists up there have my grudging respect because at least they seem to be taking some responsiblity and are trying to make Scotland stand on its own two, as opposed to the the likes of who are content to sponge and scrounge of me so you can sit on your arse and watch Jeremy Kyle all day. "Keep The UK", you say - yes, because it's us who's paying for it!

 

You remind me of the bloke down the pub who, as soon as it's his round, announces he's gotta catch the last train home.....

[luckydug]

So I've got to continually work 12-14 hour shifts in order to fund your free council housing and drink and drug habit? All under the pretenses of this 'union'? Cheers.

 

I Would love to be able afford some luxuries - sadly all my hard-earned money is being shipped northwards to pay for the feckless likes of you who continually leech off London....

 

The Scottish Nationalists up there have my grudging respect because at least they seem to be taking some responsiblity and are trying to make Scotland stand on its own two, as opposed to the the likes of who are content to sponge and scrounge of me so you can sit on your arse and watch Jeremy Kyle all day. "Keep The UK", you say - yes, because it's us who's paying for it!

 

You remind me of the bloke down the pub who, as soon as it's his round, announces he's gotta catch the last train home.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

As I was saying!

[Drew Busby !]

Just wait until the Tories get in after the next UK election after they have shafted Scotland to appease the anti-Scottish feelings down south the UK will be historyIMO.

It depends where your heart lies.I'm Scottish and I want Scotland to take responsibility for itself. Its a matter of self respect and is it not the case that Scotland is a nation and the the UK is a collection of countries so the jibe about wanting a new country is the wrong way round.

 

Indeed it is. And the long-term corrosive effect on the Scottish psyche and national self-confidence has been a depressing one. I mentioned these neighbour states of ours because they are similar in population and natural resources. I've been to all their capital cities, most recently Oslo.

 

Now Edinburgh is a beautiful city but nowhere in the streets of Oslo did I see beggars every 100 yards or so as we have seen this past 20 years or so in Edinburgh. It seems that the "benefits" of the union have been more hard-core poverty, poor housing estates and social deprivation that is simply NOT socially acceptable in these other social-welfare, high living standard countries.

 

Worse that that, it seems that many otherwise intelligent Scots believe that we should maintain this "dependency", this supposedly "hand-out" relationship with our larger neighbour, in order to maintain the status quo that sees large sections of our major cities blighted with social and health problems that are almost 3rd world in their extent. This dependency has such an effect on so many institutionalised Scots, that they simply cannot envisage any other way.

 

Norway, Denmark, Finland ... all excellent role models to aspire to. This current relationship, this "union" is more like one of these bad marriages that no-one has the guts to pull the plug on - despite the fact it would be better for both parties if it was all over.

[jambo121]

So I've got to continually work 12-14 hour shifts in order to fund your free council housing and drink and drug habit? All under the pretenses of this 'union'? Cheers.

 

I Would love to be able afford some luxuries - sadly all my hard-earned money is being shipped northwards to pay for the feckless likes of you who continually leech off London....

 

The Scottish Nationalists up there have my grudging respect because at least they seem to be taking some responsiblity and are trying to make Scotland stand on its own two, as opposed to the the likes of who are content to sponge and scrounge of me so you can sit on your arse and watch Jeremy Kyle all day. "Keep The UK", you say - yes, because it's us who's paying for it!

 

You remind me of the bloke down the pub who, as soon as it's his round, announces he's gotta catch the last train home.....

 

Hahahahaha great love it a South Londoner slagging off someone from Edinburgh for being a scrounger lol, brilliant m8.

 

Lets me just put one question to you, if the rest of the country is subsidised by London then how the feck can you not pay for the Olympics without the rest of the country's lottery money and taxes sudsididsing it.

[southlondonjambo]

I will mate honest.

 

I too am a proud Scot but don't need independence to prove it.

 

.

 

 

So essentially what you're saying is that you have no shame in having one hand wave the saltire whilst having the other hand in my pocket?

[southlondonjambo]

Hahahahaha great love it a South Londoner slagging off someone from Edinburgh for being a scrounger lol, brilliant m8.

 

Lets me just put one question to you, if the rest of the country is subsidised by London then how the feck can you not pay for the Olympics without the rest of the country's lottery money and taxes sudsididsing it.

 

Let me put a question to you - if we're NOT subsiding you, then why don't you vote for independence? Because you, like all Scottish unionists, are content to have someone else foot the bill for you....

 

At least Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists are taking some kind of responsibility and looking at ways of Scotland standing on its own two feet in the world....

[Drew Busby !]

Let me put a question to you - if we're NOT subsiding you, then why don't you vote for independence? Because you, like all Scottish unionists, are content to have someone else foot the bill for you....

 

At least Salmond and the Scottish Nationalists are taking some kind of responsibility and looking at ways of Scotland standing on its own two feet in the world....

 

The prevailing unionist mentality seems to be that we should stick with it because they think we get a good deal. Now if Scotland and England are both fiscal partners, then that to my mind can only mean England is getting a bad deal. ...By that argument, then if we're favoured, then England is surely disfavoured...

 

So I guess their mentality is that they don't want this apparent "handout" to stop. I guess it's the same mentality that persuades some people not to take up work because why should they work for 1000 pounds a month if the government is giving them 900 quid a month to sit on their arse.

 

No pride.

[Csaba's Broon Shoes]

So I've got to continually work 12-14 hour shifts in order to fund your free council housing and drink and drug habit? All under the pretenses of this 'union'? Cheers.

 

I Would love to be able afford some luxuries - sadly all my hard-earned money is being shipped northwards to pay for the feckless likes of you who continually leech off London....

 

The Scottish Nationalists up there have my grudging respect because at least they seem to be taking some responsiblity and are trying to make Scotland stand on its own two, as opposed to the the likes of who are content to sponge and scrounge of me so you can sit on your arse and watch Jeremy Kyle all day. "Keep The UK", you say - yes, because it's us who's paying for it!

 

You remind me of the bloke down the pub who, as soon as it's his round, announces he's gotta catch the last train home.....

 

 

Scotland has always been part of the union for the last 405 year

 

Why change now ? Or do you remember being independant and Hibs last

 

Scottish Cup win

 

How do you know i have a drink and drug habbit , besides you want new

 

drinking pals if they bump their round , maybe it was something you said .

[jambo121]

If I'm honest, I think we have a lot areas in which each area of the country compliments the other, yes the Nats have a point with the Oil that has been produced from Scotland but it is not a resource that will be there for years to come. However the money from the Scottish oil went straight into the Uk governments coffers. Now there is no getting away from the fact that Scotland does get a subsidy from the UK government which in no way has ever gone to replacing the lost revenue from the oil fields or ever will, but this is part of being a Union we all pull our resources.

 

On your point of Scrounging Scots, to be honest if there is a saving in the whole of the UK economy rather than taxing the hard working punter heavily it is to cut the benefits system we have drastically, but I think that you would find that hitting places like South London harder than the majority of Scotland.Now to think that it is only Londoners that earn high wages and pay a lot of tax is very Naive, but to be honest its what most Londoners think so feel free. Now to think that it is only Londoners that earn high wages and pay a lot of tax is very Naive, but to be honest its what most Londoners think so feel free.

 

As a Union we have a much bigger bargaining and bidding power (When used properly) on a global scale than we would ever have as England, Scotland, Ireland or Wales independently, lets face it does anyone ever really care what is said by the Norwegians or the Danes, in fact could you name there leaders.

 

I have no confidence in the nats to be able to run an economy without taxing people out of existence ie the local council tax, and with one, possibly two serious politicians in a party, how can anyone have anyone take them seriously.

 

One other thing to dwell on is the economic migrant situation, this effects England much more than it ever will Scotland. We have a need for economic migrants as our population has reduced over the past 20 years. England in certain areas maybe doesn't have as big a need but will have more people coming from these countries as it is easier to get to and settle in. If England was free of Scotland you would have that additional expense which could quickly become the size of Scotland in population terms and mostly on low incomes, claiming benefit, without any of the income but with added expenses.

[luckydug]

Scotland has always been part of the union for the last 405 year

 

Why change now ? Or do you remember being independant and Hibs last

 

Scottish Cup win

 

How do you know i have a drink and drug habbit , besides you want new

 

drinking pals if they bump their round , maybe it was something you said .

 

 

 

 

 

Whether you like it or not an increasing number of English people want us out of the UK and an increasing number of Scottish people want us out of the UK so the only way to sort it is to put it to the vote .If you dont like the result you can always relocate to London to cling to the coat tails of your English pals .Assuming they want to drink with a scrounging Jock that is.

[Csaba's Broon Shoes]

Whether you like it or not an increasing number of English people want us out of the UK and an increasing number of Scottish people want us out of the UK so the only way to sort it is to put it to the vote .If you dont like the result you can always relocate to London to cling to the coat tails of your English pals .Assuming they want to drink with a scrounging Jock that is.

 

Scrounging Jock , is that right you can't type that it's not pc , that is

 

racist , besides i dinnae have any pals to drink with .

 

Where is your source of your research of Engish wanting us Scots out

 

of the UK ? It's a lot of cobblers

[southlondonjambo]

but this is part of being a Union we all pull our resources.

 

.

 

Or, more acurately, the Scotch sit on their collective arses and do nothing and live off English handouts and deep-fried crack cocaine, while muggins here down in London does all the work....

 

But, hey, we're all pooling our resources, right??? We're all British after all?

 

You've got a bloody cheek to talk about pooling resources when you've never done a day's work in your life....

 

The sooner England gets shot of this union the better.

[jambo121]

Or, more acurately, the Scotch sit on their collective arses and do nothing and live off English handouts and deep-fried crack cocaine, while muggins here down in London does all the work....

 

But, hey, we're all pooling our resources, right??? We're all British after all?

 

You've got a bloody cheek to talk about pooling resources when you've never done a day's work in your life....

 

The sooner England gets shot of this union the better.

 

Dearie me, you do have a wee bit of a chip on your shoulder don't you, and here was me thinking that was a Scottish trait. Luckily I do know you are not typical of the English, just a blemish.

 

How do you presume to say I have never done a day's work in my life?

 

You just go on pooling your pudin pal, no bites here!!!

[Csaba's Broon Shoes]

Or, more acurately, the Scotch sit on their collective arses and do nothing and live off English handouts and deep-fried crack cocaine, while muggins here down in London does all the work....

 

But, hey, we're all pooling our resources, right??? We're all British after all?

 

You've got a bloody cheek to talk about pooling resources when you've never done a day's work in your life....

 

The sooner England gets shot of this union the better.

 

Don't come running up the road to us when climate change really kicks in

 

ha ha , better look oot yer wellies ya soft southern G&T girls blouse

[Tott]

Or, more acurately, the Scotch sit on their collective arses and do nothing and live off English handouts and deep-fried crack cocaine, while muggins here down in London does all the work....

 

But, hey, we're all pooling our resources, right??? We're all British after all?

 

You've got a bloody cheek to talk about pooling resources when you've never done a day's work in your life....

 

The sooner England gets shot of this union the better.

 

What a complete tool

[southlondonjambo]

But, alas, at the end of the day - you still don't have the guts to vote for independence though, do you?

 

England - bailing out the Scotch since 1707....

[Denny Crane]

Scotland has always been part of the union for the last 405 year

 

Why change now ? Or do you remember being independant and Hibs last

 

Scottish Cup win

 

How do you know i have a drink and drug habbit , besides you want new

 

drinking pals if they bump their round , maybe it was something you said .

 

The actual political union happened 301 years ago (1707). You're obviously thinking of the Union of the Crowns act of 1603 when James VI became James I of England as well. We may have had one king but we were still seperate nations (as so forcefully pointed out during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms later on that century).

[jambo121]

But, alas, at the end of the day - you still don't have the guts to vote for independence though, do you?

 

England - bailing out the Scotch since 1707....

 

I would give you a history lesson if i thought it would do any good.

[Denny Crane]

But, alas, at the end of the day - you still don't have the guts to vote for independence though, do you?

 

England - bailing out the Scotch since 1707....

 

So cut us loose if we're such a burden.

[Csaba's Broon Shoes]

But, alas, at the end of the day - you still don't have the guts to vote for independence though, do you?

 

England - bailing out the Scotch since 1707....

 

Away and chase yourself

 

We have bailed you lot out on the front line of many conflicts for hundreds

 

of years , you cannae even beat us at egg chasing

[luckydug]

[quote=southlondonjambo;

 

The sooner England gets shot of this union the better.[/quote]

 

 

 

 

We will do the getting shot of if you dont mind.

[Csaba's Broon Shoes]

The actual political union happened 301 years ago (1707). You're obviously thinking of the Union of the Crowns act of 1603 when James VI became James I of England as well. We may have had one king but we were still seperate nations (as so forcefully pointed out during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms later on that century).

 

Spot on Matt you intelligent person

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I've said before that the Tories should have called the SNP's bluff the minute the Scottish elections were over. They should have demanded a border poll, which there is precedent for in Northern Ireland in the 70s, so that there was an affirmative referendum over the United Kingdom.

 

i.e. The question would have been "Should Scotland remain part of the United Kingdom?" Yes/No

 

We would then have been treated to the sight of the new government having to campaign for a 'No' vote, because would there have been any way that the SNP could turn down this referendum opportunity since it is what they campaigned on?

 

Sadly, the Tories didn't have the bottle to do that. Meanwhile, with Labour in a complete mess and the country starting to feel like its on its uppers, the SNP, now home of the anti-Labour protest vote, benefits. I happen to think that polls on independence are pointless. For the 15 years I lived in Scotland, they exceeded 50% to hitting as low as 10% and I think the response to the question varies by as much as the weather.

 

I do think, though, that believing that a Tory government at Westminster will bring anti-Scottish sentiment is wrong. They may pass an "English votes for English laws" Act which nobody can really dispute and is hardly anti-Scottish. I also think that, unlike Brown, that there will be a mild disinterest in what the SNP are up to. It is Labour causing all the rows at present because Brown's personal fiefdom has been lost and he's a complete control freak. The difference is that he is causing more damage than he realises.

 

I will enjoy Salmond's forthcoming humbug though on the economic downturn as he pretends that Scotland can buck the global trend, which it can't. The only countries who can offset it at present are those supplying China and India until they run out of steam. The "Celtic Tiger" of Ireland has hit the buffers badly. Their goods have been priced out of their two main export markets, the UK (including NI) and the US, thanks to the Euro's appreciation against the pound. Now even if Scotland were independent, they would still face the fact that the economy would be controlled by London since Scotland plans to keep the pound. Still, it will give Salmond someone to blame.

 

Either way, independence, which I was never bothered about when I lived there and even less bothered now, shouldn't be regarded as a panacea as it is by those numpties that haunt the comments board of The Hootsmon.

[Chester™]

 

England - bailing out the Scotch since 1707....

 

Didnt realise the English thought they have been bailing out the Whisky industry? Did I miss something......???

[djf]

Or, more acurately, the Scotch sit on their collective arses and do nothing and live off English handouts and deep-fried crack cocaine, while muggins here down in London does all the work....

 

But, hey, we're all pooling our resources, right??? We're all British after all?

 

You've got a bloody cheek to talk about pooling resources when you've never done a day's work in your life....

 

The sooner England gets shot of this union the better.

 

You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

 

I'd be embarrassed for you if I didn't think you were a troll.

 

Go do some real research as opposed to regurgitating the front page of the Telegraph.

[Eggo]

So I've got to continually work 12-14 hour shifts in order to fund your free council housing and drink and drug habit? All under the pretenses of this 'union'? Cheers.

 

I Would love to be able afford some luxuries - sadly all my hard-earned money is being shipped northwards to pay for the feckless likes of you who continually leech off London....

 

The Scottish Nationalists up there have my grudging respect because at least they seem to be taking some responsiblity and are trying to make Scotland stand on its own two, as opposed to the the likes of who are content to sponge and scrounge of me so you can sit on your arse and watch Jeremy Kyle all day. "Keep The UK", you say - yes, because it's us who's paying for it!

 

You remind me of the bloke down the pub who, as soon as it's his round, announces he's gotta catch the last train home.....

 

 

 

Do you spell ****** with a "c" or a "k"...as in knob?

[Eggo]

Heres an interesting policy that was derived in the 70's that I think would still stand today.

 

"Hire 200 brickies to build a wall along the border,and 1 joiner to put a gate in,so we could go to Wembley every 2 years and boot the ****** out the mouthy Londoners"

 

Not my suggestion,I remember people talking about it;)

[Denny Crane]

Spot on Matt you intelligent person

 

 

Well....not every waking hour of my uni life was spent in the boozer!

[Toggie88]

London does bringing in more income than the rest the of UK (not just Scotland, but everywhere). This isn't because Londoners are harder working, it's because that is where the population is based and that is where most business is based.

 

I don't understand the argument that we would be unable to support oursleves. Lets ignore the oil just now, how does every nation on earth (without oil) support themselves? General taxation. We would still have taxation to fund ourselves. I know we wouldn't be bringing in as much as we currently do being in the UK with a population of 60 million plus, but we would also have a lot less folk to care for. If you then add in the oil, which is estimated to last for at least another 50 years then we would have a "chronic surplus*" of cash. If you then add in other forms of income streams - we can be the power house of Europe with amount of wind and tidal power we could produce.

 

*not my words, but the words of the UK govt.

 

Take out the whole cash matter. Do the rest of you agree that Scotland is her own country? A seprate nation who should have it's own football team, national identidy? Then surely she should have the power to make decisions for themselves? It's time to stand on our two feet and release our potential as a nation.

[leginten]

So I've got to continually work 12-14 hour shifts in order to fund your free council housing and drink and drug habit? All under the pretenses of this 'union'? Cheers.

 

I Would love to be able afford some luxuries - sadly all my hard-earned money is being shipped northwards to pay for the feckless likes of you who continually leech off London....

 

The Scottish Nationalists up there have my grudging respect because at least they seem to be taking some responsiblity and are trying to make Scotland stand on its own two, as opposed to the the likes of who are content to sponge and scrounge of me so you can sit on your arse and watch Jeremy Kyle all day. "Keep The UK", you say - yes, because it's us who's paying for it!

 

You remind me of the bloke down the pub who, as soon as it's his round, announces he's gotta catch the last train home...

 

Hmm. High time there was a full - and open - review of the way public money in the UK is spent, particularly with reference to the funding disbursed to the individual component countries.

 

But this will never happen, for two reasons:

 

- no London government really wants to address the huge discrepancy in funding per head of population between London and, say, the north-east of England.

 

- more importantly, no London government will ever want to come clean about the Treasury black hole which is classified as "unidentifiable" public expenditure, which constitutes around 17.5p of every ?1 collected in tax. Most of this colossal sum of money goes either towards maintaining the status quo in the UK - i.e. funding government institutions which are situated in and around London and benefit the south-east of England, funding massive public projects such as the Channel Tunnel, Limehouse Link (and any number of other high-spend projects) also of benefit purely to the south-east of England.

 

There is a big, bad subsidy junkie in the UK. There always has been. But you won't find it north of Watford.

[Toggie88]

I will mate honest.

 

I too am a proud Scot but don't need independence to prove it.

 

We are a democracy, you are correct and if the democratic process was followed then would we have the Scottish Government we have at the moment given the lost votes??????

 

Democracy is overated and a card people like to pull when it suits.

 

Joke County's such as Italy and now Scotland use PR and that is the only reason the Gnats have got close to governing.

 

You go on about democracy...then attack PR.

 

Make your mind up - do you want democracy or first past the post?

 

You said that the only way the nats got in was due to PR, which is true. The reason they got in is because the majority of Scots VOTED FOR them. If that's not democracy then I don't know what is.

[John Findlay]

I have to confess. I see threads like this and the other thread with regards to the SNP's tax plans. The same old faces come on to defend the Union.

 

The union is dead. It died on January the first 1973 when then conservative primeminister Edward Heath signed up the UK for the then EEC(this stood for the European Economic Community). Now if Scotland was to gain independence from the rest of the UK contrary to the scaremongering etc. Scotland would gain membership of the now EU(European Union) or currency would overnight become the Euro. The rest of Britain would follow suit or will be using the Euro before Scotland gains independence.

 

Scotland will survive on it's own. Whether it prospers is indeed another question but, it is a question that unionist fear the answer to most.

A vibrant Scotlan within the EU is their nightmare scenario.

 

 

 

 

John

[bean counter]

Interesting debate, I did not see who commissioned the poll, probably the SNP. The SNP have since they won the election played at being a government.

 

It is always very easy in opposition to say what you would do if you were in power it's often a different story when you get into power.

 

Changing the name from Scottish Executive to Scottish Government is petty its a symbolic statement similar to the anti fox hunting law that Labour passed when it came to power in 97. In the overall scheme of things irrelevant but done to annoy people and because they could.

 

There have been at least 2 referendums on Independance that I can remember and the SNP have lost them both heavily. Their plan seems to be blame everything bad on Westminister or the lack of funds from Westminister and promise the earth.

 

If they were that confident that the majority of Scots wanted Indepenance they would have held a vote by now they are now engaged in trying to engineer the circumstance and the contrive the wording on any referendum to ensure a yes vote ( transferable voting is a joke )

[leginten]

Interesting debate, I did not see who commissioned the poll, probably the SNP. The SNP have since they won the election played at being a government.

 

It is always very easy in opposition to say what you would do if you were in power it's often a different story when you get into power.

 

Changing the name from Scottish Executive to Scottish Government is petty its a symbolic statement similar to the anti fox hunting law that Labour passed when it came to power in 97. In the overall scheme of things irrelevant but done to annoy people and because they could.

 

There have been at least 2 referendums on Independance that I can remember and the SNP have lost them both heavily. There plan seems to be blame everything bad on Westminister or the lack of funds from Westminister and promise the earth.

 

If they were that confident that the majority of Scots wanted Indepenance they would have held a vote by now they are now engaged in trying to engineer the circumstance and the contrive the wording on any referendum to ensure a yes vote ( transferable voting is a joke )

 

 

If you're referring to the 1979 referendum, which I believe was not fought along the party political lines you suggest, and was not on the topic of independence, more people voted for an assembly than voted against.

The referendum had, though, been rigged in advance by Labour with their "40% ruling" - an unprecedented measure.

 

As far as I know, there has never been a referendum on independence in Scotland.

[bean counter]

If you're referring to the 1979 referendum, which I believe was not fought along the party political lines you suggest, and was not on the topic of independence, more people voted for an assembly than voted against.

The referendum had, though, been rigged in advance by Labour with their "40% ruling" - an unprecedented measure.

 

As far as I know, there has never been a referendum on independence in Scotland.

 

You're right it was a referendum on devolving powers and was not only about Independence.

 

Why is it, if support for Independence is so high, that a straight forward referendum asking " Do you want an Independent Scotland " has not been held.

[John Findlay]

You're right it was a referendum on devolving powers and was not only about Independence.

 

Why is it, if support for Independence is so high, that a straight forward referendum asking " Do you want an Independent Scotland " has not been held.

 

The referendum of 1979 WAS NOT ABOUT INDEPENDENCE WHATSOEVER.

 

It was a referendum with regards to a devolved parliament. The yes vote was actually greater than the no vote but because the yes vote was not 40% of the total vote then it was deemed that the Scottish people did not want a devolved parliament.

 

 

 

 

John

[leginten]

You're right it was a referendum on devolving powers and was not only about Independence.

 

Why is it, if support for Independence is so high, that a straight forward referendum asking " Do you want an Independent Scotland " has not been held.

 

 

I think the straightforward answer to this is that the SNP would never hold a referendum on this unless it thought it would win - so I suppose it will wait until the time is right, which it may of course never be.

The other factor is that the SNP is an incredibly broad church - it contains people from all points of the political spectrum, and there are people in there who may have only voted SNP in the past in order to achieve devolution of powers. Now that this has happened, there is an inbuilt "brake" in the SNP which will look to see how things settle down under devolution.

Ironically I would say that the party actually contains many people who simply wish that the Union worked better than it does and have voted accordingly to put pressure on the other parties; a lot of these people are, in a real sense, probably better Unionists than some of the people who have voted tribally in Scotland for Labour, the party of eternal mediocrity.

[husref musemic]

But, alas, at the end of the day - you still don't have the guts to vote for independence though, do you?

 

England - bailing out the Scotch since 1707....

 

Where exactly are you bailing 'scotch' from ? can I have glass.

 

Ignoramous.

[Boris]

As a nationalist I'm not unhappy with that upswing although I know that in reality these polls are always highly variable.

 

On the plus side I think the general timing is right for Salmonds referendum in a couple of years. In Scotland, Labour are ongoing shambolic under Wendy and the Lib-dems a complete joke under Nicol Stephen. UK wide, Labour are 2 years away from being kicked out of office. Thats even assuming that Brown is still there to lead them, they're about to get their asses kicked in local elections down south in May which will damage him even further.

 

So it's all about timing. Fast forward a couple years. Labour on their uppers. Tories back as the UK government with perhaps a decade of power in front of them. Play all the right cards and we could yet have independence in the next 5 to 10 years...

 

Yup, it's all to play for.

 

So Independence due to other parties inabilities, not because of the SNP's abilities?