john brownlee Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 here's a solution if the sfa and spl want to help give us back the fines they were encoured by the same players who now need paid'If Whisart was soo concerned and wanting to help players he should be going down that line or at least get the fines stopped IMO its just another union leader wanting to see his name in print and as usual nothing will happen because of it. The players will in the end get paid but not because of whishart, spl or the sfa, but when Hearts have the finances to pay them. I think the players are sensible enough to realise this and thats why there's not to much noise coming from the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Are you automatically in the SPFA when you register as a senior player? Is it a closed shop? Or is it a voluntary membership scheme? I really do not know but if voluntary may explain why some might not want to sign as not represented by the union. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Why do the players not wish to complain seems the biggest question to me. I may be wrong here but I think the players are trying to distinguish between Heart of Midlothian Football Club and Vladimir Romanov. Some will say the players have no loyalty to the club, without asking them we will never know, but I do think the players can and do understand that the recent actions are not indicative of HMFC as a football club, they are indicative of the erse who just happens to be pulling the strings at the moment. The players have nothing to gain by dropping HMFC in the shit. It is people at Tynecastle who have been trying to get money for them, because the parent company is refusing to honour the contracts they gave to them. You can argue til your blue in the face whether or not they are overpaid, but that still doesn't give UBiG/Vladimir Romanov the right to stop paying them. If he doesn't wish to pay people in his employ he needs to terminate their contracts and give them an appropriate pay off. If he doesn't want to do that they are entitled to receive their monthly salary at the due date each month. There is absolutely no defence for not paying them, none whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Nothing shocking about that at all. By way of reminder, this is a club which imposed an oh-so-convenient media blackout just before all this trouble began. By further way of reminder, this move was applauded by the vast majority on here: most of whom said in genuine seriousness that they could get all the Hearts-related info they needed from the official website, pravda.com. The media ban has indeed been most convenient. I can't even remember which episode in the ongoing worldwide conspiracy against Hearts sparked it. There are a lot of people on this thread who've been wandering around with clothes-pegs on their noses for years now and still haven't located the source of the smell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samster Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 ?Under the UEFA licencing system clubs cannot owe monies to players or other clubs at the end of December. Failure to deal with all outstanding football debt may result in the club being unable to play in Europe. UEFA will have to be informed of the wages debt. Pretty confident Rangers will be in breach of this with regards Lee Wallace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven100 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It would be interesting to see if Zal and Nov...... have been paid??? And i am talking about the Lith connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Brian MacLaughlin reporting that players want to stop training, some can't afford to put petrol in cars and some considering having to take up part time jobs. Players also walking off training as people ready to come to blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.J Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Why is it when other clubs have financial problems, plymouth/motherwell/dundee/portsmouth...all who had to endure longer payment problems etc, other clubs/authorities/unions etc try to work with the club through its problems. Here we seem to have every tom dick and harry looking to stick the knife in deep and twist it, by finding a way out for the players or expulsions etc for the club. Can someone tell me what good this will do the players/club in the short/long term? Thr club have financial problems, they have allegedly offered ways out for some, and are looking to drastically cut our wage bill by Jan, why does no-one want to help us work through the next few weeks? Let me say though, non payment of wages is wrong. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwaysinourshadows Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Would anybody like to explain what trading while insolvent means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adi Dassler Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Still can't believe folk trotting out bias, and that the players don't deserve their money because they are overpaid. Almost beyond belief. Except it's so believable because this place is just absolutely mental. I can half understand people adopting the old siege mentality routine. No one likes is we don't care. Us v the World. Etc etc. It is simply their way of dealing with things. A self defence mechanism of sorts. It's wrong, but they can't rationalise this any other way. We are Donald Ducked. That is the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 The media ban has indeed been most convenient. I can't even remember which episode in the ongoing worldwide conspiracy against Hearts sparked it. There are a lot of people on this thread who've been wandering around with clothes-pegs on their noses for years now and still haven't located the source of the smell. Yep. Still mugs are directing frustration at the wrong outlets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 'This places a huge burden upon our members upon whose shoulders the future of this club rests.' Sorry Fraser but your members will be off in a shot -- the burden rests with us fans who will be here long after the players have left -- the clubs future is not dependent on your members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Brian MacLaughlin reporting that players want to stop training, some can't afford to put petrol in cars and some considering having to take up part time jobs. Players also walking off training as people ready to come to blows. As much as I feel sorry for the players that haven't been paid, the above must be rubbish. If you're being paid ?1-2k a week after tax and don't have savings you deserve shot. Especially when your career ends at 35. I can really see Skacel, Webster, Zali and Kello at your local Asda on the check outs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tevo Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Well if he does need another op then its safe to say we will never see him in maroon again. He does need another op and Hearts are refusing to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 As much as I feel sorry for the players that haven't been paid, the above must be rubbish. If you're being paid ?1-2k a week after tax and don't have savings you deserve shot. Especially when your career ends at 35. I can really see Skacel, Webster, Zali and Kello at your local Asda on the check outs. That's just not a logical way of looking at things. Many, many people are generally shite at saving money, irrespective of how much they earn. And some live outwith their means, irrespective of how much they earn. I earn a pretty reasonable wage, and I have zero savings. Sounds like you have some money put away - that's great, but not everyone's like you. I can completely believe that some of the players are running out of cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy-y Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Now an SPL statement. http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=10880 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboSean Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 That's just not a logical way of looking at things. Many, many people are generally shite at saving money, irrespective of how much they earn. And some live outwith their means, irrespective of how much they earn. I earn a pretty reasonable wage, and I have zero savings. Sounds like you have some money put away - that's great, but not everyone's like you. I can completely believe that some of the players are running out of cash. I wish I had savings! Thing is, I fully expect to work until I'm 68-70. These players have to find themselves a job as soon as they retire from football. If they've not got money saved up for this, or a very good pension they're idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 As much as I feel sorry for the players that haven't been paid, the above must be rubbish. If you're being paid ?1-2k a week after tax and don't have savings you deserve shot. Especially when your career ends at 35. I can really see Skacel, Webster, Zali and Kello at your local Asda on the check outs. It's what he said - does seem farcical that even guys on goodish wages wouldn't have at least a month or two (I'd have thought at least 4-6 for someone on that sort of dough - christ they don't even have to pay for 2 of their daily meals) set aside. Plus all outstanding bonuses were paid up to date 3 weeks ago. Maybe agents and the PFA haven't been educating their players enough on the consequences of being footballer in such hard times when it is clearly obvious many football clubs are struggling. VR is completely in the wrong here - and as a point of principle the players are entitled to complain - but a bit of real life hardship does no-one any harm. They could consider a car share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 'This places a huge burden upon our members upon whose shoulders the future of this club rests.' Sorry Fraser but your members will be off in a shot -- the burden rests with us fans who will be here long after the players have left -- the clubs future is not dependent on your members. Try reading that again, and see if you can read a different meaning into it. Many fans feel that if Romanov gets to a certain stage he could, if he chose, kill the club, by his subsequent actions. Do you not think it is possible that the players also realise that if they were to take an action which he found objectionable it is possible his reaction could simply be to wind the club up. It would be an extreme reaction by Romanov, but neither you nor I, or the players, know if it is a route Romanov would go down, but it is an option. And just maybe the players don't want to be the ones that do something which drives him in that direction. The players will all eventually leave HMFC as you say, but I'm guessing when they do leave they would like to leave in a manner which ensures there is still an HMFC there for future players to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:shitwine: Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Now an SPL statement. http://www.scotprem.com/content/default.asp?page=s2&newsid=10880 For not going to the SFA when they have every right to, the players dedication cannot be called into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 A few generalities: - Fraser Wishart is still a tosser, irrespective of this statement's contents Vladimir Romanov is still the only person who can sort this out, irrespective of personal feelings towards him The players of Heart of Midothian Football Club remain the only people who can force actions against the club. If they did so, they would have my full support. To Coco's point above, I would love to see the board in the chokey because that might actually slap Vlad in the face more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Try reading that again, and see if you can read a different meaning into it. Many fans feel that if Romanov gets to a certain stage he could, if he chose, kill the club, by his subsequent actions. Do you not think it is possible that the players also realise that if they were to take an action which he found objectionable it is possible his reaction could simply be to wind the club up. It would be an extreme reaction by Romanov, but neither you nor I, or the players, know if it is a route Romanov would go down, but it is an option. And just maybe the players don't want to be the ones that do something which drives him in that direction. The players will all eventually leave HMFC as you say, but I'm guessing when they do leave they would like to leave in a manner which ensures there is still an HMFC there for future players to join. That's a pisspoor argument for no action though, particularly as Romanov has most to lose (after all, the same players are valued at ?25M by him ). Strike now and force him to take action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 What is shocking, again, is the lack of communication from the club. The official Hearts website continues to provide news stories, as if nothings wrong! What do you want? A little clock that says Day X, players still not paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Meanwhile we all expect 3 points on a Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Meanwhile we all expect 3 points on a Saturday. I don't. Anything we get at Fawlty Towers is a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Because they are professional and loyal to the football club and the supporters. They should be applauded for not kicking and screaming about it all. Its reactions like this to the shambles the club is in which makes Hearts fans seem like gullable fools lapping up Vlad's line. The players are like any other man or woman in the nation, in that for their services to their employer they deserve reimbursement in the form of wages. The fact they're not, or for some only a tiny amount, is a shambles and a disgrace to the history of our club (even though Vlad is not the only terrible owner we've had, none of the guys before would've done this). If it's so bad that they feel the PFA should be contacted then good, if you were a Union member and hadn't been paid on time and regularly as per your contract then you'd no doubt go to them and complain. The fact David Southern has said the ?1,000 offer was made through the gate receipts against St.Johnstone is a clear sign UBIG have pulled the plug and Vlad isn't doing much about it. We are being hung out to dry and it's a disgrace. Sooner that lot get the heave the better. The fact there might be retribution from the SPL, SFA and action from our players may address the real issue here, and that's board ineptitude at running the club. Sooner action is taken and we move back to being a respected institution who is revered for it's history and traditions the better. All this negative press is self inflicted by our owners (all the way back to the monkeys comment). Those who think it's some sort of 'conspiracy' or specific anti-Hearts bias are clearly far removed from reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chat Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Brian MacLaughlin reporting that players want to stop training, some can't afford to put petrol in cars and some considering having to take up part time jobs. Players also walking off training as people ready to come to blows. I'd take anything that fat ****er says with a gargantuan piece of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It would be interesting to see if Zal and Nov...... have been paid??? And i am talking about the Lith connection. Be interesting to know who has and who has not been paid full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Now an SPL statement. http://www.scotprem....s2&newsid=10880 Interesting statement, the contents of which just go to prove that someone earlier this afternoon was talking shite about Hearts players meeting Neil Doncaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 We are. The media treat us differently to everyone else. Remember how the treated Miko? I'm glad the PFA are worried for the players. Thats a good thing. The media didn't treat Motherwell and Dundee like they are treating us. It needs to be sorted out though. Vlad's comments on the media have never been anything but scorn since 2006. Fact is, if you want good media coverage then don't rile up the press by calling them 'those in the pockets of the OF' or part of some conspiracy against Hearts etc. The scottish press cater to their market, which is predominantly old firm fans. It'd be like a UK wide paper devoting a 5 page section on the SPL and not the EPL. Pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 VR has really left us in a right old mess. I absolutely despise that little man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Vlad's comments on the media have never been anything but scorn since 2006. Fact is, if you want good media coverage then don't rile up the press by calling them 'those in the pockets of the OF' or part of some conspiracy against Hearts etc. The scottish press cater to their market, which is predominantly old firm fans. It'd be like a UK wide paper devoting a 5 page section on the SPL and not the EPL. Pointless. I agree but we have the 3rd biggest support in Scotland. Why rile that readership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbo Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I say its because we upset the apple cart in 06 and are still the most likely club to do it again despite the problems. Instead of the media etc. applauding us they despise us because of it. Too many OF sympathisers in this country. We need to get the players paid asap. Its beyond a joke. When we were ripping teams apart at the start of THAT season, the press and media were raving about us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertonian_II Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 VR has really left us in a right old mess. I absolutely despise that little man. It might be a mess but it's a better mess than we would have been had he not turned up..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Currahee! Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 When we were ripping teams apart at the start of THAT season, the press and media were raving about us! What changed though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It might be a mess but it's a better mess than we would have been had he not turned up..... That doesn't make me feel much better tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 What changed though? We have acted in a manner deserving of ridicule. Therefore we have been ridiculed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 What changed though? In one fell swoop, the owner revealed that he was a complete lunatic. Given the strangeness of him buying HMFC in the first place, naturally, this meant people started asking loud questions... and worrying about the club's future. To put it mildly, these concerns were not exactly abated by subsequent utterances from said lunatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 We have acted in a manner deserving of ridicule. Therefore we have been ridiculed. Heh heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottg71 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 It might be a mess but it's a better mess than we would have been had he not turned up..... We'll never know that for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Why is it when other clubs have financial problems, plymouth/motherwell/dundee/portsmouth...all who had to endure longer payment problems etc, other clubs/authorities/unions etc try to work with the club through its problems. Here we seem to have every tom dick and harry looking to stick the knife in deep and twist it, by finding a way out for the players or expulsions etc for the club. Can someone tell me what good this will do the players/club in the short/long term? Thr club have financial problems, they have allegedly offered ways out for some, and are looking to drastically cut our wage bill by Jan, why does no-one want to help us work through the next few weeks? Let me say though, non payment of wages is wrong. I beleive this is an attempt to flush Vlad out, I don't believe we are as skint as he's making out. A deliberate attempt to flush out the chronic non triers and perma-injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky chick Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I beleive this is an attempt to flush Vlad out, I don't believe we are as skint as he's making out. A deliberate attempt to flush out the chronic non triers and perma-injured Really? Like proper really? wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Most of the unpaid players get ripped a new one and criticised here after every match.....however once the squad is cut down to what we can afford things will improve financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Most of the unpaid players get ripped a new one and criticised here after every match.....however once the squad is cut down to what we can afford things will improve financially. Do you reckon when we cut back to what we can afford financially it will be in terms of income brought in only and nothing like servicing the debt going out the way only wages and club expenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossgates jambo Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I may be wrong here but I think the players are trying to distinguish between Heart of Midlothian Football Club and Vladimir Romanov. Some will say the players have no loyalty to the club, without asking them we will never know, but I do think the players can and do understand that the recent actions are not indicative of HMFC as a football club, they are indicative of the erse who just happens to be pulling the strings at the moment. The players have nothing to gain by dropping HMFC in the shit. It is people at Tynecastle who have been trying to get money for them, because the parent company is refusing to honour the contracts they gave to them. You can argue til your blue in the face whether or not they are overpaid, but that still doesn't give UBiG/Vladimir Romanov the right to stop paying them. If he doesn't wish to pay people in his employ he needs to terminate their contracts and give them an appropriate pay off. If he doesn't want to do that they are entitled to receive their monthly salary at the due date each month. There is absolutely no defence for not paying them, none whatsoever. I don't visit this site often however this is by far and away the best post I've read about the situation. I know 2 first team players very well, and they are finding this situation very very difficult. On the one hand they have a genuine affection for the club, for their team-mates, the backroom staff etc, and do not have any desire to harm the club in any way at all. This, they tell me, is the sole reason they have not complained officially as yet. There have been many discussions between the players with several wanting to complain, but there is a genuine fear that Mr Romanov will make the situation worse for everyone if they do. What is annoying the players the most though is that there is a real feeling that Mr Romanov could pay them at any point if he chose to or if his hand was forced. They acknowledge that the club doesn't have the money but they can't accept that it's not possible for them to receive their basic salaries. It's not nice for them seeing comments about being wage-thieves and dead wood either. Great post portobellojambo and I agree with every single word of it. Crossgates Jambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Do you reckon when we cut back to what we can afford financially it will be in terms of income brought in only and nothing like servicing the debt going out the way only wages and club expenses? HMFC haven't serviced their debt since 2005 - all the interest & repayment due to UKIO & UBIG over the period have simply been rolled over and added to the debt then either partially or in full written off via debt for equity swaps or debt forgiveness. Hearts can only service or repay debt or pay stadium rent if they generated a surplus which they don't and haven't for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 HMFC haven't serviced their debt since 2005 - all the interest & repayment due to UKIO & UBIG over the period have simply been rolled over and added to the debt then either partially or in full written off via debt for equity swaps or debt forgiveness. Hearts can only service or repay debt or pay stadium rent if they generated a surplus which they don't and haven't for a long time. Ok thanks. Do you think as the first step is Romanov making the club self sufficient an not depending on bail outs from UBIG any longer the next stage might be starting to pay back the debts owed to them? Or do you think the plan is to become self sufficient and keep the debt as it is until a buyer is found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denny Crane Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 It might be a mess but it's a better mess than we would have been had he not turned up..... Very true but there is only so many times Romanov can go to the well with that deed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboy81 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al The Jambo Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 We may not like whats happening but as "supporters" we have to keep supporting the team, unless you have a few million hidden away that you are prepared to donate. You can say what you want on here its not going to change anything, its Hearts, thats the way its been for years, I know I took Mercer to court for unpaid bills, but I'm still a Jambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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