Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 But Obua is the type we need to empty. I`d rather give a young lad a chance alongside the experience we have until we are in a position to go out and get new players in for that area. I don`t want simple sh ite 5 yard passes all the time. I want thrust, penetration and someone with a bit drive who makes things happen. I think many Hearts fans have come to accept mediocre players in midfield for some reason? You've said yourself it takes all sorts to make a team and we certainly need a player who can keep the ball moving with 5 yard passes because nae other ^^^^ can do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eckauskas Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 But Obua is the type we need to empty. I`d rather give a young lad a chance alongside the experience we have until we are in a position to go out and get new players in for that area. I don`t want simple sh ite 5 yard passes all the time. I want thrust, penetration and someone with a bit drive who makes things happen. I think many Hearts fans have come to accept mediocre players in midfield for some reason? Right, it's fairly simple that we're not good enough to be a team that is just attack, attack, attack. So, in terms of getting their foot on the ball and playing simple passes, who would you play? See if you even think of saying Robinson or Holt, then your whole point is void. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debut 4 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 You've said yourself it takes all sorts to make a team and we certainly need a player who can keep the ball moving with 5 yard passes because nae other ^^^^ can do it! Ye have to look at the bigger picture. We`ve been knocking it around not too bad without him in the team recently, maybe we were just out of sorts a little today....a sub , any sub normally brings a bit fresh impetus so doing this doesn`t make him a hero or suddenly the answer.... There`s been thread after thread on who people would like to get rid of, also talk of inflated wages for players who offer very little and people wouldn`t be bothered if they left amid the supposed crisis. He`s one for me. Over a season he isn`t a winner, doesn`t show consistency and really produces nothing of great note. If people think he`s the type of player to take Hearts forward, good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 A team like this? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14910228.stm No Black and no Mrowiec. A team full of attacking players. No, nothing like that team. That's wholesale changes, and I'm hardly suggesting that, am I? Kello Hamill Webster Zaliukas Grainger Templeton Jonsson Robinson Skacel Driver Stevenson is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm not one of these sorts who thinks that Mrowiec is horrific, never a footballer yada yada and he does do a decent job for us, but he's easily sacrificed without losing too much solidity. Especially given we have comfortably the second best defence in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 A team like this? http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/14910228.stm No Black and no Mrowiec. A team full of attacking players. How did Sutton play against Ayr Utd? I never made it to Broadwood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bistokid Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 No, nothing like that team. That's wholesale changes, and I'm hardly suggesting that, am I? Kello Hamill Webster Zaliukas Grainger Templeton Jonsson Robinson Skacel Driver Stevenson is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm not one of these sorts who thinks that Mrowiec is horrific, never a footballer yada yada and he does do a decent job for us, but he's easily sacrificed without losing too much solidity. Especially given we have comfortably the second best defence in the league. Agree with this, but get Stevenson tae feck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Crisis over it seems. In a space of days we have gone from "doomed" to identifying the next signing targets. The problem with the team is not the lack of a striker - it is getting the ball into the danger area quickly enough. Too many passes, too many twists and turns all of which mean that the defence has time to regroup. I lost count of the number of times that Templeton was robbed of possession by being predictable and cutting inside the defender. He should shift it first time or get to goal line where he can get the ball back across goal or win a corner. We rarely look to slip balls through behind defence - The pass out wide is always preferred. Again, this gives time to defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Agree with this, but get Stevenson tae feck. We don't have anyone else capable of playing up front on their own with Kyle out. Stevenson has proven this season that he is currently our best option up there and until someone steps up, he should be keeping his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 No, nothing like that team. That's wholesale changes, and I'm hardly suggesting that, am I? Kello Hamill Webster Zaliukas Grainger Templeton Jonsson Robinson Skacel Driver Stevenson is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm not one of these sorts who thinks that Mrowiec is horrific, never a footballer yada yada and he does do a decent job for us, but he's easily sacrificed without losing too much solidity. Especially given we have comfortably the second best defence in the league. Swap McGowan for Hammil and you've got a better and more balanced team than we've had at any point this season IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Wiseau Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Swap McGowan for Hammil and you've got a better and more balanced team than we've had at any point this season IMO. The interesting thing about that team is, it's really only one change - max 2 - away from our usual line up this season, but looks much more attacking. We'd lose more goals with it, I think, but we'd score a few more as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bistokid Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 We don't have anyone else capable of playing up front on their own with Kyle out. Stevenson has proven this season that he is currently our best option up there and until someone steps up, he should be keeping his place. Beyond running about a lot he brings nothing. Slow, cumbersome, not particularly good in the air or at holding the ball up and only 2 league goals. And in fairness to him, he isn't a striker. I'd rather see Sutton, Smith or even the much maligned Elliott given an extended run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 He seems to be stubbornly persevering with the system he has in place but surely he has to see that at the moment it isn't working. Playing well, making chances. Great. But we can't score goals. My worry is his seeming inflexibility of mind at the moment. We were criticising JJ fo sticking to his one trick last season as well. For me Sergio is not an improvement on JJ yet. Same old, same old... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 How did Sutton play against Ayr Utd? I never made it to Broadwood. 1 great effort early on but no service for anything else after. Suttom has looked pretty slow in the games he did play BUT he does have a track record of scoring in the SPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 No, nothing like that team. That's wholesale changes, and I'm hardly suggesting that, am I? Kello Hamill Webster Zaliukas Grainger Templeton Jonsson Robinson Skacel Driver Stevenson is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I'm not one of these sorts who thinks that Mrowiec is horrific, never a footballer yada yada and he does do a decent job for us, but he's easily sacrificed without losing too much solidity. Especially given we have comfortably the second best defence in the league. Good team actually but would prefer Sutton as the striker. Think he would score goals with two wingers playing and so would Rudi playing just in behind him. Doubt we will ever see that team TBH though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJGJ Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Slightly off topic but considering what Paulo got hauled up for will the same happen to Peter Houston He added: "I just saw an incident happening where Kyle Bartley has his two hands on him pulling him down. "Brian Winter is 10 yards from it, standing watching it. It's 3-1 at the time and, to me, he can clearly see it. in my opinion it's a penalty kick. But Brian chose not to see it - or didn't see it, he said." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freewheelin' Jambo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Slightly off topic but considering what Paulo got hauled up for will the same happen to Peter Houston He added: "I just saw an incident happening where Kyle Bartley has his two hands on him pulling him down. "Brian Winter is 10 yards from it, standing watching it. It's 3-1 at the time and, to me, he can clearly see it. in my opinion it's a penalty kick. But Brian chose not to see it - or didn't see it, he said." It never ends does it? Same old story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardboardcutout Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 maybe we signed sutton to stop him scoring a hattrick against us again because he destroyed us at the back that day with quality balls being placed with aplomb into the back of our net via his napper!! we dont need that do we!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Slightly off topic, but people who complain about only 1 up front especially at home don't really understand modern football and do my head in. Having 2 strikers doesn't equal more goals. I think a variation of 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 is fine but we lack a mobile target man who play up top on is own and bring others into play (if we could combine the good points in Sutton, Eliott and Stevenson we would have that player). Also for about a year we have been a lopsided formation with no right midfielder. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Newcastle play 4-4-2 and are doing well, but that is more down to a solid defence who have only conceeded 8 goals in 11 games, but scored 17 which is decent but not spectacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mintmyster Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I'm of the opinion that he needs his own players but the squad he has is not bad and he should be getting better out of it if he has any footballing savvy. Plenty of new managers come in and do well with existing squads. I'm not sure about this guy. And January windows have been disappointments in recent years. Wholeheartedly concur with this (having just returned from Paisley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Reaping what we sowed I think - changing manager after 2 games was always going to lead to inconsistency this season. My expectations were reset by the insane timing. However, while I thought the decision was harsh on JJ and I disagree with some of Paulo's decisions (three defensive mids, not giving Sutton a chance etc) I'd rather support him while he gets to know the league, opposition and our players. I also like his ideas and what he's done with our defence although would like to see more creativity. I certainly don't want him binned after shree months. The lack of time managers are given is one of the most depressing things about modern football. If Paulo had us bottom then change may be required but we look solid if unspectacular, which was about my expectation after changing manager so early in the season. It seems that many on here had somewhat unrealistic expectations, based bizarrely on our wage bill (failing to take into account that several players have large contracts that they shouldn't have been given - hardly Paulo's fault). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Brightside Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I like Stevenson, but every time I've seen him in the middle of the park I've thought he was hopeless. If he's not going to be getting played up top or supporting a striker then he should be on the bench. I agree, Stevenson has grown into the role of striker / advanced midfielder but don't think he is the answer in centre of midfield. Can't really remeber too many good passes or tackles from him in games to suggest that he would be suited to a centre midfield role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Seeing everybody is mentioning the game so much MOTM Poll Hearts vs Aberdeen John Sutton despite his 2 goals came 3rd in the poll with approx 13% of the votes that big Adrian got This was the only time he's been in the top 3 of the MOTM polls this season including games vs Paksi Personally I'd rather see Gordon SMith get a run out, in the game at WHL on a few occasions he gave two EPL level centre halfs the run around wih his movement If Sutton is given a run of games and repeats his form from earlier this season I hope the many folk calling for his inclusion will put their hands up and admit they were wrong, although I won't be holding my breath NB if Sutton plays I hope to feck he plays like a 17 goal a season striker and proves me wrong and I will be the first to put my hands up but based on performances to date I'm not convinced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I have stuck to the mantra that he needs to bring in his own players in January or pre-season. Such is our finances we don't look like bringing anybody in. Potentially his had will be forced and the team will get a freshness with players going out. Defensively we are sound however he is up against it now with regards to quality of spectacle and goals to win games. Could be alot better. In his first 12 league games, he's got more points that JJ got and his team has scored the same amount of goals as JJ managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 In his first 12 league games, he's got more points that JJ got and his team has scored the same amount of goals as JJ managed. Are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven.Hodge Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I reckon it'd be a good idea to see what happens with the players Sergio brings in that can play his game (if he gets to); I would imagine that a central midfielder would be one of his top priorities. As of right now I think he's a decent manager, still finding his feet with the team he has at his disposal though. I'll reserve my full judgement until January though, where hopefully he'll get a wee chance to get things going for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 The point should be that we are not getting either the goals or results we need. A point away to St Mirren isn't exactly a bad result BUT if Hearts have aspirations for 3rd place then that's the kind of game we need to be winning. Any good manager will utilise the players he has, play formations that suit the players and will work best against the tactics he thinks the other team will play. There are few teams that don't really adapt their team to what they have and most will vary their approach I.e not just a passing game but the long ball when it's to their advantage. When it goes wrong and isn't working they should be able to change things and freshen up the first 11. JJ was lucky in that he brought in Kyle and his formation and tactics worked well for a while but equally when we lost Kyle, you can see that he struggled to adapt to a new approach. Sergio seems to be forcing a formation on the team and it simply isn't working. He needs to use all of the squad be it Sutton or at least one of the other strikers or at least change things to try and improve our scoring rate. However he seems unwilling to change anything at all and that's what I don't like about him as a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radge21 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Would love to see the players Paulo would bring in. With our money troubles just now I dont think we will ever see it. Why did Vlad bring him in if he is not going to be given a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 mellow-dramatics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Slightly off topic but considering what Paulo got hauled up for will the same happen to Peter Houston He added: "I just saw an incident happening where Kyle Bartley has his two hands on him pulling him down. "Brian Winter is 10 yards from it, standing watching it. It's 3-1 at the time and, to me, he can clearly see it. in my opinion it's a penalty kick. But Brian chose not to see it - or didn't see it, he said." peter houston is exactly the kind of sleekit, disingenuous **** that would defend the integrity of scottish football to the hilt... when the occasion suits. but that one snippet of his quote tells a story about what he knows full well about scottish football. all of them know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I know this is a bit tongue in cheek but Newcastle are second in the Premiership playing 4-4-2 Life in the old dog yet. A wee team from Salford does alright with that formation as well. Obviously not proof that it always works, but it is still a valid formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Purposely posted this separate from responses, my biggest issues with Sergio... He seems unwilling to change. He has his favourite players and players he doesn't like. Neither of these sound like attributes of a successful manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 IMO, it's the central midfield balance we need to change to score more, not necessarily the system. It should be Jonsson plus one, then another further forward. I'd like to see Robinson given a proper chance - I know he wasn't particularly great earlier in the season when he got a couple of starts, but I think his energy could open things up for us further forward in a way that Black and Mrowiec can't manage. No doubt I'll be subject to dogs abuse for this, but Obua is a much better option than Black or Mrowiec. We need a player who will get the ball and play simple passes in order to keep the ball, something Obua does. Black is alright at doing this, when he's not chasing down a possible booking. Working backwards, you have Jonsson who will break up the play, Obua who will keep it moving and ??? to support the attack. The major problem is finding our who ??? is. Central midfield problem raised on page 1 guys Agree with both of you btw, Robinson and Obua in for Black and Mrowiec would be a vast improvement IMO. Taouil needs to be played further forward instead of Rudi or Temps, if he is to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Purposely posted this separate from responses, my biggest issues with Sergio... He seems unwilling to change. He has his favourite players and players he doesn't like. Neither of these sound like attributes of a successful manager. There was a lot of tinkering around with the front 3 or 4 today at different times of the game. But no change in the effectiveness. Big part of that is due in my opinion to his playing Mrowiec in an attacking midfield position. I cannot understand why Sergio does not trust the young players to do better in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Benoit Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Out of interest does anyone know how many goals Sutton scored last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Out of interest does anyone know how many goals Sutton scored last season? 17 i think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossthejambo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Out of interest does anyone know how many goals Sutton scored last season? 71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavieG Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Purposely posted this separate from responses, my biggest issues with Sergio... He seems unwilling to change. He has his favourite players and players he doesn't like. Neither of these sound like attributes of a successful manager. Sounds exactly like his predecessor to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I thought we played not bad today for the third week running. How we have only got 1 point out of the last 9 and scored no goals in that time is astonishing in terms of the chances we have created in those games. The thing is, playing well but not winning is a bad bad habit to get into - its much better to be playing indifferently and grinding out wins - which is what we did time and again away from home last season. I think Paulo does need to be given time though. I'm sure he is well aware of the lack of goals and will be giving the set-up of the team some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighusref Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 There was a lot of tinkering around with the front 3 or 4 today at different times of the game. But no change in the effectiveness. Big part of that is due in my opinion to his playing Mrowiec in an attacking midfield position. I cannot understand why Sergio does not trust the young players to do better in that position. Has been doing that recently. Watch for him revert to the starting line up next week though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mintmyster Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Lost count of the number of times that two of our players went for the same ball today - just can't help thinking they still don't understand their roles under Sergio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 What ever you guys say, personally, i cannot judge him until he has been given the chance to build his own team Perhaps even he thinks most of the players are garbage and just wants to get to January scraping as many points as he can until then Dream on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 What ever you guys say, personally, i cannot judge him until he has been given the chance to build his own team Perhaps even he thinks most of the players are garbage and just wants to get to January scraping as many points as he can until then Dream on ? Do you think he'll be allowed to buy a whole new team? He'll get one or two players if he gets any at all. He'll still mainly have to rely on the same garbage players that he has now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORGIE MONK Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I'm sure Sutton Robinson & Holt would increase our chances of hitting the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I'm sure Sutton Robinson & Holt would increase our chances of hitting the net. Seen Holt play much then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Do you think he'll be allowed to buy a whole new team? He'll get one or two players if he gets any at all. He'll still mainly have to rely on the same garbage players that he has now. Dont think he'll need to buy a whole team just 2 or 3 (maybe 4 if hes allowed) key players, at least 1 midfielder and 1 striker preferably 2 of each Could bring the best out of the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Seen Holt play much then? I have- and he's better than mrowiec as is Robinson - its not even close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORGIE MONK Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Only 3 times. Against Rangers last season, & against Celtic & Hibs this season. Looks ready for the step up to me. Seems to read the game well, looks around himself & brings guys into the game. Obviously a big ask to influence in SPL but I think he could help the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I have- and he's better than mrowiec as is Robinson - its not even close You've seen him do well in U-19 games and have decided that makes him a better player than a senior member of the squad who does a different job in midfield? Better than Mrowiec at what? Passing and picking out a pass? That's possible. Finishing? That's quite likely. How about closing down the opposition, tackling, heading and strength? You'll have a hard time convincing me that an 18 year old kid is better in those respects and those are the ones I tend to associate with a defensive midfielder. He's there to do a job and it's a dirty and ugly job but he does it well. Also, for the 1000th time, there is a colossal difference between doing well at youth level and starring in the first team. I used to watch all the reserve games at Forthbank - players like Eddie Mearns, Jamie Mole, Sean Mackle and Matthew Doherty were all stand-outs most weeks. But none were even close to good enough. I'm not saying Holt can't possibly be a good player but building up someone who's barely featured in the team as some kind of messiah is ridiculous. This happens all the time on kickback, wasn't Rocky Visconte meant to be the next Harry Kewel? Copil the next Haghi? Rapnik was meant to be a star in the making. Most don't even make the first team and the few who do get written off for not being the superstars they were supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GORGIE MONK Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Teenwolf, you may well be right. Spot on what you say in many respects. Occasionally it is worth pitching in a few young guys though. Hearts first team looks a bit stale. I enjoyed the trip to London for the Spurs game, Smith & Robinson looked good. Motherwell won't last the distance so we can afford to gamble a bit with the squad surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Teenwolf, you may well be right. Spot on what you say in many respects. Occasionally it is worth pitching in a few young guys though. Hearts first team looks a bit stale. I enjoyed the trip to London for the Spurs game, Smith & Robinson looked good. Motherwell won't last the distance so we can afford to gamble a bit with the squad surely. I appreciate what you're saying and it would be great if the likes of Holt and Robinson were the answer (and they might well be). I also see no harm in them getting game time, what I argue against is the suggestion that they are the answer to all our problems. It would be great if Holt could do at senior level what he does in U-19 games, but its just not fair to pin so much expectation on an 18 year old. In your case you're talking up the merits of a promising youngster and there's no harm in that. What gets on my tits is people using youth players they've barely seen to make attacks on unfavoured first team players. e.g 'Holt must be better than Mrowiec/Black/Obua' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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