18/20 Team League

[bigsuperslim1874]

With all the general apathy in football at the moment, i keep thinking what could get the thrill-factor back in the game?

 

As a nation we have far too many senior clubs, junior clubs etc. We cant expect to get rid of clubs so what do we do with the clubs we have?

 

The League Cup has proved there is enough in the 1st Division to enhance the SPL product. A lot of people have forgotten the social aspect of football - travelling to away games and having a drink at the local boozers. Travelling to the same boozers/stadiums umpteen times a season is hardly appealing but if you were only going to an away ground once, you would:-

 

A) appreciate the trip more if only visiting the once

 

enjoy visiting different grounds/boozers such as Falkirk, Raith, and Ayr.

 

Surely better that than Killie away umpteen times?

 

Potential SPL:-

 

Aberdeen

Ayr

Celtic

Dundee

Dundee Utd

Dunfermline

Falkirk

Hamilton

Hearts

Hibs

Inverness

Kilmarnock

Livingston

Motherwell

Partick

Raith

Rangers

Ross County

St Johnstone

St Mirren

 

With this you get derbys a plenty - ours, old firm, ayrshire, dundee, lanarkshire, highlands.

 

Also, any team who has come anywhere near the top 2 has usually beat most of the other teams but come unstuck against them more often than not. If you only played them 4 times instead of 8, you would not see the massive gap you usually get.

 

As for all the other teams, they go into a championship and whoever gains promotion gets it - no faffing about with stadiums etc. If you are top/win play offs, you have earned the right. How many clubs have nearly died due to being forced to build stadium (Airdrie did die......)?

 

This is something that really needs the fans - irrespective of what club you support - to take action and force the SFA/SPL to take us seriously as paying punters. Without us they are all knackered.

 

Whats peoples thoughts on this?

 

Would a survey issued to all major clubsites of all aforementioned teams with a wide ranging series of questions - pricing of games, SPL tv etc, and getting media attention via radio be enough to get the ball rolling? If we sit and do nothing then there may be no turning back.

[Jambof3tornado]

A bigger league is the only way forward!!!

 

Oh and a reserve or under 23 league.

[Tott]

Only way a team from outwith the OF will win the league again is by creating a bigger league.

Playing the OF twice a season can only improve ours (and others) chances.

 

Sadly bottomfeeder teams,Motherwell (OF season ticket a few seasons back!!)St Midden etc would be against it.

[bigsuperslim1874]

A bigger league is the only way forward!!!

 

Oh and a reserve or under 23 league.

 

Absolutely - totally bonkers that we have nothing.

[jambo19]

I agree that we need 18/20 teams. I think teams like livi, dundee, falkirk have decent stadiums, decent teams too so they should cope in a bigger spl.

The original proposal was 10 teams which was meant to improve the league but imo if we had 20 teams you would only play each other once at home and once away therefore it may be more exciting having one trip to certain grounds and therefore increasing attendances and making things more exciting. I think if hearts were to play livi or dunfermline away once a season we might get more fans going there. Also if the old firm lose at tynecastle or other places it may become more competitive at the top instead of beating a small team 3 or 4 times a season if it was a 10 team league. A few slip ups might have a greater effect. As for the championship you would raise interest through a play-off system which should generate money through media interest and attendances etc.

Also as you said more derbies in their so surely more media interest and also smaller teams playing the OF would get some tv money out of it.

But its all ifs and maybes. Hopefully there is some change to improve scottish football

[Swanny17]

Two 18 team leagues in Scotland would be the way forward IMO. I know we'd have to lose 6 clubs or so, but when you look at the likes of Clyde, some of the smaller teams need to merge to become more successful. Just look at ICT.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Only way a team from outwith the OF will win the league again is by creating a bigger league.

Playing the OF twice a season can only improve ours (and others) chances.

 

Sadly bottomfeeder teams,Motherwell (OF season ticket a few seasons back!!)St Midden etc would be against it.

 

Not so sure. Well are doing very well (at the moment) and if they felt it was going to benefit their cause to push on then why not? I dont think we can assume what these teams would vote for - even the old firm coming isn't the cash cow it once was. Having more local derbies helps compensate and most teams would fancy their chances of beating everyone outside the old firm - i know i would - which would get fans excited and coming back.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

18 would be great. They could really brainstorm and make it more interesting too. Play offs for the final Europa League Place involving 4th - 7th, or 4th-6th and the cup runners up if necessary. Bottom two down and next one or two and 3rd and 4th from 1st Div play promotion play off. Away trips to Dumfries, Arbroath, Alloa etc. It's exciting just typing it.

[peter_hmfc]

18 would be great. They could really brainstorm and make it more interesting too. Play offs for the final Europa League Place involving 4th - 7th, or 4th-6th and the cup runners up if necessary. Bottom two down and next one or two and 3rd and 4th from 1st Div play promotion play off. Away trips to Dumfries, Arbroath, Alloa etc. It's exciting just typing it.

 

They have an unusual way of Europa League qualification in (I think) Holland. They split the season into four sections and then whichever team has the best form in each section gets a Euro place.

 

So say, Roda JC Kerkrade could have a storming start to the season, top of the league after the first quarter, but then faulter and never win a game after that, but would still have a Euro place.

 

I'm not saying it's a great idea, but it would give a meaning to the boring end of season games where some teams can't be bothered and have no real motivation any more. It would also be interesting because then ANY team could have a dection quarter and get a place.

 

Just sayin' is all.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Already people are answering as i expected. I am going to press ahead with creating the survey (easy to do online nowadays) and will revert back when i have information or need input regarding requests for questions to be asked.

 

Cheers all - its time to force change.

[Francis Albert]

Because the last time it was as boring as hell and Hearts crowds were about half what they are today (except for OF and derbies).

[Francis Albert]

18 would be great. They could really brainstorm and make it more interesting too. Play offs for the final Europa League Place involving 4th - 7th, or 4th-6th and the cup runners up if necessary. Bottom two down and next one or two and 3rd and 4th from 1st Div play promotion play off. Away trips to Dumfries, Arbroath, Alloa etc. It's exciting just typing it.

 

 

Well maybe for a few hundred weirdos. .

 

It's not really going to transform the Scottish game, is it.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Because the last time it was as boring as hell and Hearts crowds were about half what they are today (except for OF and derbies).

I dont think we should just dismiss as it was boring in your opinion before (30+ years ago). Also, was it really as boring as it is now? I personally dont think so but everyone has an opinion which is fair doos.

 

At least a survey with a decent sample of voters would give some indication as to what was considered the favoured way forward - if 80% of people want the larger league then they obviously dont see it as boring.

[Francis Albert]

I dont think we should just dismiss as it was boring in your opinion before (30+ years ago). Also, was it really as boring as it is now? I personally dont think so but everyone has an opinion which is fair doos.

 

At least a survey with a decent sample of voters would give some indication as to what was considered the favoured way forward - if 80% of people want the larger league then they obviously dont see it as boring.

 

 

Much more so.

 

But I take your ponts in the rest of your post, although the majority who didn't suffer the last decade of the old 18 club league may be in for a surprise.

[B. Dynamite]

Well maybe for a few hundred weirdos. .

 

It's not really going to transform the Scottish game, is it.

 

How wouldn't it? Look at how the Scottish games changed since the move from an 18 team league to a 10/12 "Premier" division. Hardly an improvement.

[Rick Grimes]

I'd love an 18 team league, particularly now its 3 points for a win so would be a lot more fluid than last time it was in place.

 

One slight issue though - what would you have below it? An 18 team second division would be unlikely to be any good. Far too many wee teams for that scenario to be a remotely interesting or attractive league. Having relegation to a pyramid may help though along with Colt / B teams from the bigger clubs.

[Francis Albert]

How wouldn't it? Look at how the Scottish games changed since the move from an 18 team league to a 10/12 "Premier" division. Hardly an improvement.

 

 

Having experienced both, the 10/12 team league has been a definite improvement on the 18 team league, at least in the last 10-15 years of the latters existence.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Somebody needs to work out wtf was working between 1948 and 1965 and then again between 1980 and 1985. Then we can pick the best bits.

[stew mc]

Currently 4 OF derbies vs 2 OF derbies, here lies the problem!!

[Francis Albert]

Currently 4 OF derbies vs 2 OF derbies, here lies the problem!!

 

3 or 4 Edinburgh derbies against 2 games against East Fife is also part of the peroblem.

[B. Dynamite]

Having experienced both, the 10/12 team league has been a definite improvement on the 18 team league, at least in the last 10-15 years of the latters existence.

 

As have I and don't see any improvement. Certainly not in regard to quality, competition (both domestically and in Europe) and the national team.

 

What is clear is that Scottish footballs dying on its arse and if nothings done then its only going to get worse. At least an 18 team league would inject a bit of excitement and enthusiasm for a few seasons at least. The way things stand at the moment the SPL will be dead with apathy within ten years.

[Francis Albert]

As have I and don't see any improvement. Certainly not in regard to quality, competition (both domestically and in Europe) and the national team.

 

What is clear is that Scottish footballs dying on its arse and if nothings done then its only going to get worse. At least an 18 team league would inject a bit of excitement and enthusiasm for a few seasons at least. The way things stand at the moment the SPL will be dead with apathy within ten years.

 

Yes, we might be back to the days when we packed in 6000 or 7000 for games like last Saturday, instead of the apathetic 13,000 who turned up and paid about 5 times as much.

[Optimus Prime]

I've been saying this for years but this is how i would go.

 

- 16 team SPL

 

- 16 team Div 1

 

- Amalgamation of the remainder of the SFL, SJFA, Highland League and Seniors into a regionalised pyramid system.

[Charlie-Brown]

Francis Albert,

 

Are your opinions on the 18 team league clouded by the fact Hearts were rotten during that period and when we moved to a 10 team SPL we then spent 4 of the next 8 seasons in the Division below.

 

Do Celtic, Hibs & Aberdeen fans of a certain age also complain about the last decade of the 18 team league as they had winning teams in that era?

[heartsfc_fan]

I've been saying this for years but this is how i would go.

 

- 16 team SPL

 

- 16 team Div 1

 

- Amalgamation of the remainder of the SFL, SJFA, Highland League and Seniors into a regionalised pyramid system.

 

I would agree with that aswell.

 

Problem is, Sky/ESPN money would be diluted. Old Firm wouldn't go along with it.

[B. Dynamite]

Yes, we might be back to the days when we packed in 6000 or 7000 for games like last Saturday, instead of the apathetic 13,000 who turned up and paid about 5 times as much.

 

We're the exception not the norm...13k all stems from the ST rush of 05/06. Sure we're also charged a lot more than 5 times what is cost back then as well. Every other club has falling attendances.

 

Maybe we could get back to the days of actually having a sustained league challenge by ourselves and other non OF clubs. The only way thats going to happen is a bigger league. Or would you be too upset at having to travel to Dingwall once a year?

[fabienleclerq]

I think the two 16 team idea and a pyramid system with "b teams" is the way forward too.

 

While we are at it get the champions league to feck as its boring now and go back to a european cup format, uefa has forgotten what football should be about.

[Francis Albert]

Francis Albert,

 

Are your opinions on the 18 team league clouded by the fact Hearts were rotten during that period and when we moved to a 10 team SPL we then spent 4 of the next 8 seasons in the Division below.

 

Do Celtic, Hibs & Aberdeen fans of a certain age also complain about the last decade of the 18 team league as they had winning teams in that era?

 

To some extent, probably.

 

But to contrast today's "apathy" with the exciting competiveness of the old 18 club league seems simplistic. With much cheaper prices Celtic were pulling in significantly lower attendances than in recent years, even when they were one of Europe's top club sides. Aberdeen were maybe getting 10,000 to 12,000. I don't remember Hibs crowds being much higher, if at all than they are today. (I am excepting OF games and derbies when cheap prices and much larger ground capacities played their part).

 

I really don't see replacing games against Rangers, Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen with games against the likes of East Fife as being the panacea some do.

 

Why don't cup ties against unfamiliar lower tier clubs not attract more punters eager for novelty?

[B. Dynamite]

I think the two 16 team idea and a pyramid system with "b teams" is the way forward too.

 

While we are at it get the champions league to feck as its boring now and go back to a european cup format, uefa has forgotten what football should be about.

 

Yeah mate, two leagues of 16 with a national conference league under that then three regional setups (East, West & North). As someone said, if they could amalgamate the SJFA into the SFA along with Highland league and EoS then there would be more than enough depth for the regionals. Would also allow small clubs with ambition to progress and get rid of the deadwood. The setup in this countrys a joke.

[Charlie-Brown]

To some extent, probably.

 

But to contrast today's "apathy" with the exciting competiveness of the old 18 club league seems simplistic. With much cheaper prices Celtic were pulling in significantly lower attendances than in recent years, even when they were one of Europe's top club sides. Aberdeen were maybe getting 10,000 to 12,000. I don't remember Hibs crowds being much higher, if at all than they are today. (I am excepting OF games and derbies when cheap prices and much larger ground capacities played their part).

 

I really don't see replacing games against Rangers, Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen with games against the likes of East Fife as being the panacea some do.

 

Why don't cup ties against unfamiliar lower tier clubs not attract more punters eager for novelty?

 

Season tickets as opposed walk up attendance is what keeps current average attendances higher - people pay their 400 quid and most go to the majority of games as a result - cup ties aint included in the ST anymore and many people baulk at the one off additional cost of games. Contrast that to Cup games that historically attracted bigger attendances than league matches.

 

Season tickets today would also keep average attendances up in a bigger league so Hearts v Ayr Utd would probably attract 12K+ today as opposed to say maybe only 7K walk up attendance 30 years ago.

[B. Dynamite]

To some extent, probably.

 

But to contrast today's "apathy" with the exciting competiveness of the old 18 club league seems simplistic. With much cheaper prices Celtic were pulling in significantly lower attendances than in recent years, even when they were one of Europe's top club sides. Aberdeen were maybe getting 10,000 to 12,000. I don't remember Hibs crowds being much higher, if at all than they are today. (I am excepting OF games and derbies when cheap prices and much larger ground capacities played their part).

 

I really don't see replacing games against Rangers, Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen with games against the likes of East Fife as being the panacea some do.

 

Why don't cup ties against unfamiliar lower tier clubs not attract more punters eager for novelty?

 

It generally does. Plenty fans make trips to grounds they've never been to before.

 

I'm not saying it would change overnight or that all of a sudden we'd have "exciting competiveness" but whats clear to everyone is the current setups not working and drastic reform is needed.

[Francis Albert]

It generally does. Plenty fans make trips to grounds they've never been to before.

 

I'm not saying it would change overnight or that all of a sudden we'd have "exciting competiveness" but whats clear to everyone is the current setups not working and drastic reform is needed.

 

 

Basing plans for the future structure of the game on the wishes of the small minority who travel to away games doesn't seem to me to make much sense. And, yes there were more away fans following some clubs in the 60s and 70s including Hearts (not as I recall the likes of St Johnstone or St Mirren) but as my previous post said crowds were not bigger and in some cases significantly smaller despite this.

[Francis Albert]

Season tickets as opposed walk up attendance is what keeps current average attendances higher - people pay their 400 quid and most go to the majority of games as a result - cup ties aint included in the ST anymore and many people baulk at the one off additional cost of games. Contrast that to Cup games that historically attracted bigger attendances than league matches.

 

Season tickets today would also keep average attendances up in a bigger league so Hearts v Ayr Utd would probably attract 12K+ today as opposed to say maybe only 7K walk up attendance 30 years ago.

 

 

True but one of the reasons people buy STs is to guarantee a seat for big games. Hence the big upturn in ST sales after 2005/06 (and even a waiting list) and why the OF sell so many STs. In an 18 club league the number of big games would be halved. I think that would impact ST sales to some extent.

[SUTOL]

18 might be too many teams.

There would probably be too many meaningless matches in the second half of the season for the mid-table teams, unless there was 'something' for the to play for. It's not too bad in England due to the number of Euro places they get, so the team in 12th for example who is safe from relegation at Christmas still has a chance of getting into Europe by coming 8th (or whatever) whereas in an 18 team SPL with potentially only the top 4 getting into Europe then a similar 12th place team will have virtually no chance of making Europe etc and will be safe from relegation.

 

Maybe something radical like a 14 team league playing each other 3 times (one home, one away, one TBC?? ) would maybe liven things up.

Could we also look at awarding an extra point for scoring more than 2 goals for example?....

[JamboX2]

With all the general apathy in football at the moment, i keep thinking what could get the thrill-factor back in the game?

 

As a nation we have far too many senior clubs, junior clubs etc. We cant expect to get rid of clubs so what do we do with the clubs we have?

 

The League Cup has proved there is enough in the 1st Division to enhance the SPL product. A lot of people have forgotten the social aspect of football - travelling to away games and having a drink at the local boozers. Travelling to the same boozers/stadiums umpteen times a season is hardly appealing but if you were only going to an away ground once, you would:-

 

A) appreciate the trip more if only visiting the once

 

enjoy visiting different grounds/boozers such as Falkirk, Raith, and Ayr.

 

Surely better that than Killie away umpteen times?

 

Potential SPL:-

 

Aberdeen

Ayr

Celtic

Dundee

Dundee Utd

Dunfermline

Falkirk

Hamilton

Hearts

Hibs

Inverness

Kilmarnock

Livingston

Motherwell

Partick

Raith

Rangers

Ross County

St Johnstone

St Mirren

 

With this you get derbys a plenty - ours, old firm, ayrshire, dundee, lanarkshire, highlands.

 

Also, any team who has come anywhere near the top 2 has usually beat most of the other teams but come unstuck against them more often than not. If you only played them 4 times instead of 8, you would not see the massive gap you usually get.

 

As for all the other teams, they go into a championship and whoever gains promotion gets it - no faffing about with stadiums etc. If you are top/win play offs, you have earned the right. How many clubs have nearly died due to being forced to build stadium (Airdrie did die......)?

 

This is something that really needs the fans - irrespective of what club you support - to take action and force the SFA/SPL to take us seriously as paying punters. Without us they are all knackered.

 

Whats peoples thoughts on this?

 

Would a survey issued to all major clubsites of all aforementioned teams with a wide ranging series of questions - pricing of games, SPL tv etc, and getting media attention via radio be enough to get the ball rolling? If we sit and do nothing then there may be no turning back.

 

This is the exact point I always argue. There are barely any derbies in the top league out with Edinburgh and Glasgow. Bringing more into the top league would be a definate way to raise the attendances at other clubs.

[DalryJambo]

Whilst I do think we need to change, the thing I like about the current set-up is that it normally means you will see Hibs, Celtic, Rangers, Dundee Utd, plus the other best performing team/s twice a season at Tynecastle. This normally equates to at least 10 sometimes 12 'big' games you look forward to. If you go to a bigger league, all of a sudden you only have one visit from the big teams (so say 5 or 6 must see games) and then the other 12-11 home games are against the so called 'wee' teams.

 

TBF to the rest of the teams, they might perform to the same standard as the ones I've mentioned and the games might be just as entertaining, but I find if because of work or other commitments I am going to miss a St.Johnston or St.Mirren game i'm not that2 bothered, but the 'big' games I'll always do my best to attend.

[B. Dynamite]

Basing plans for the future structure of the game on the wishes of the small minority who travel to away games doesn't seem to me to make much sense. And, yes there were more away fans following some clubs in the 60s and 70s including Hearts (not as I recall the likes of St Johnstone or St Mirren) but as my previous post said crowds were not bigger and in some cases significantly smaller despite this.

 

I wasn't. It was in response to your previous post.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Im liking the chat and the other possibilities that are being proposed. When i get round to building the survey, i will build all these in.

 

There was another survey kicking about in which the results were often quoted when discussing reconstruction. Problem is, no-one seemed to know about it until it closed. I want to make sure it is comprehensive and publicised and not let it disappear - the more we keep banging on about it the better.

 

Although, with eveything going on today, knowing our luck the structure will change for the better and we will be in the lower league fighting back from administration!!

[Debut 4]

With all the general apathy in football at the moment, i keep thinking what could get the thrill-factor back in the game?

 

As a nation we have far too many senior clubs, junior clubs etc. We cant expect to get rid of clubs so what do we do with the clubs we have?

 

The League Cup has proved there is enough in the 1st Division to enhance the SPL product. A lot of people have forgotten the social aspect of football - travelling to away games and having a drink at the local boozers. Travelling to the same boozers/stadiums umpteen times a season is hardly appealing but if you were only going to an away ground once, you would:-

 

A) appreciate the trip more if only visiting the once

 

enjoy visiting different grounds/boozers such as Falkirk, Raith, and Ayr.

 

Surely better that than Killie away umpteen times?

 

Potential SPL:-

 

Aberdeen

Ayr

Celtic

Dundee

Dundee Utd

Dunfermline

Falkirk

Hamilton

Hearts

Hibs

Inverness

Kilmarnock

Livingston

Motherwell

Partick

Raith

Rangers

Ross County

St Johnstone

St Mirren

 

With this you get derbys a plenty - ours, old firm, ayrshire, dundee, lanarkshire, highlands.

 

Also, any team who has come anywhere near the top 2 has usually beat most of the other teams but come unstuck against them more often than not. If you only played them 4 times instead of 8, you would not see the massive gap you usually get.

 

As for all the other teams, they go into a championship and whoever gains promotion gets it - no faffing about with stadiums etc. If you are top/win play offs, you have earned the right. How many clubs have nearly died due to being forced to build stadium (Airdrie did die......)?

 

This is something that really needs the fans - irrespective of what club you support - to take action and force the SFA/SPL to take us seriously as paying punters. Without us they are all knackered.

 

Whats peoples thoughts on this?

 

Would a survey issued to all major clubsites of all aforementioned teams with a wide ranging series of questions - pricing of games, SPL tv etc, and getting media attention via radio be enough to get the ball rolling? If we sit and do nothing then there may be no turning back.

It will come because Scottish Football has now went full circle. It`s dead on its feet with major clubs having financial difficulty in trying to keep up with the Jones`s.

 

It may be painful at first, standards won`t go sky high just solely down to a structure change...but lets cut the wages, pour more money into developing homebred players and actually play them. Clubs go back to spending wages they can really afford, this may mean not being able to go for a higher standard of player from another league...but haven`t we had enough of diddies being paid 8, 9 k a week anyway?

 

Time for MAJOR change. Let`s spread the wealth among more clubs, lets have a long term aim to breed better players and give them a chance. It`ll take a hell of a time to do it but short term a league structure change might inspire a bit more interest from more fans.

[Francis Albert]

I wasn't. It was in response to your previous post.

 

Sorry, I thought you were saying more fans travel to unfamiliar grounds' countering my point that there is no great upsurge in demand or interest when an unfamiliar lower league team visits Tynecastle .

 

It makes life more interesting to visit different grounds and boozers is certainly an argument some use for a bigger league, including on this thread. It doesn't seem to me a particularly compelling one, unless you see away fans making a much bigger contribution to the finances and general health of the game than I foresee, whatever the structure.

 

I am not really opposed to bigger league, I just think in itself it doesn't begin to address and may even exacerbate the Scottish league's biggest problem - the lack of competition. 18 club leagues worked and 10 club leagues worked when a third or more of the league could realistically compete for at least the occasional title.

[fabienleclerq]

18 might be too many teams.

There would probably be too many meaningless matches in the second half of the season for the mid-table teams, unless there was 'something' for the to play for. It's not too bad in England due to the number of Euro places they get, so the team in 12th for example who is safe from relegation at Christmas still has a chance of getting into Europe by coming 8th (or whatever) whereas in an 18 team SPL with potentially only the top 4 getting into Europe then a similar 12th place team will have virtually no chance of making Europe etc and will be safe from relegation.

 

Maybe something radical like a 14 team league playing each other 3 times (one home, one away, one TBC?? ) would maybe liven things up.

Could we also look at awarding an extra point for scoring more than 2 goals for example?....

You can look at end of season mid-table clashes as a positive aswell.Let's face it 5/6 in the current set up try to avoid getting relegated,so go with experienced players who grind out results rather than giving younger players a chance.Once teams know they are safe These games at the end could be used to blood younger players so they can stake a claim for the year after and improving the future of the game.

 

On the extra point for two goals, the old firm would swallow these up week in week out ruining the chance of others challanging so IMO would be almost counter productive.I know its to encourage more attacking play but i think givin a bigger league more teams will ditch the negative tactics anyway.

[Sydney]

An 18/20 team league will be as pish as a 10 or a 12 team league, only we'll play more shit teams more often and have smaller crowds.

 

Rangers and Celtic will still finish in the top 2 every season.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Doncaster was on the radio being questioned about an expanded league again. He conceded that was what the majority of the paying public wanted but that it wouldn't work as the game would lose ?20 million with a 16 team league.

 

Firstly, were these financials ever released to the public - if not, then he surely cannot stand behind that figure. I - and im sure most - would be keen to see how they came to that figure and if there was potential amendment opportunities.

 

Secondly, how many other aspects of the entertainment/sport industry totally disregard what the paying public want as the SPL are doing? Most industries would find a way of making the 16 or whatever work thus keeping the paying public happy and more likely to part with their dosh. But no, not the SPL - the specialise in doing the opposite and driving punters away. Tossers.

[skinnybob72]

While I like the idea of the bigger league I cant help thinking it's a case of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Scottish football is heading one way at present and it's not upwards.

 

If you take away the 'die hards' or season ticket holders from each clubs average attendance how many are actually turning up on the day. In other words how many folk get up on a Saturday and think 'I fancy going to an SPL match today'.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Doncaster was on the radio being questioned about an expanded league again. He conceded that was what the majority of the paying public wanted but that it wouldn't work as the game would lose ?20 million with a 16 team league.

 

Firstly, were these financials ever released to the public - if not, then he surely cannot stand behind that figure. I - and im sure most - would be keen to see how they came to that figure and if there was potential amendment opportunities.

 

Secondly, how many other aspects of the entertainment/sport industry totally disregard what the paying public want as the SPL are doing? Most industries would find a way of making the 16 or whatever work thus keeping the paying public happy and more likely to part with their dosh. But no, not the SPL - the specialise in doing the opposite and driving punters away. Tossers.

 

What he really means is that Rangers and Celtic would lose out big time by only playing each other twice.

[Debut 4]

While I like the idea of the bigger league I cant help thinking it's a case of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Scottish football is heading one way at present and it's not upwards.

 

If you take away the 'die hards' or season ticket holders from each clubs average attendance how many are actually turning up on the day. In other words how many folk get up on a Saturday and think 'I fancy going to an SPL match today'.

Undoubtedly money is the big thing.....There are still thousands of fans out there who would like to go to football all around scotland.

 

In recent years we`ve seen Motherwell get 12, 13,000 v Dundee United because they done a one off cut price deal.....

 

So, is drastic financial change the answer? yes, it may mean a drop in standards even more for a while if clubs cut back wages etc.... but in turn it may force teams to play more homebred players and put more focus on this side of things.

[skinnybob72]

Undoubtedly money is the big thing.....There are still thousands of fans out there who would like to go to football all around scotland.

 

In recent years we`ve seen Motherwell get 12, 13,000 v Dundee United because they done a one off cut price deal.....

 

So, is drastic financial change the answer? yes, it may mean a drop in standards even more for a while if clubs cut back wages etc.... but in turn it may force teams to play more homebred players and put more focus on this side of things.

 

I remember going up to Aberdeen for the first time in 1990 or thereabouts (was the 2-2 game where Jimmy Sandison scored) and there was a crowd of over 15,000 there. I also think we were 2nd / 3rd at the time which no doubt swelled the crowd but look at the crowds this fixture sees nowadays - lucky to top 9,000. And I'm not convinced that dropping the prices will get us back to those numbers.

[Debut 4]

I remember going up to Aberdeen for the first time in 1990 or thereabouts (was the 2-2 game where Jimmy Sandison scored) and there was a crowd of over 15,000 there. I also think we were 2nd / 3rd at the time which no doubt swelled the crowd but look at the crowds this fixture sees nowadays - lucky to top 9,000. And I'm not convinced that dropping the prices will get us back to those numbers.

I think it would help mate but of course, people want to see good football too. But ask yerself, despite all the doom and gloom about our game, what sort of crowds would Hearts get if prices were quite low? We already get 12, 13 for CAT B games. Ok, if prices are low, wages are low etc.... but if this was across the board i`d still expect Hearts to be one of the leading lights in Scottish Football.

 

 

 

I think each club would get a respectable number of fans back, unless you are toiling at the wrong end of the table.

[skinnybob72]

I think it would help mate but of course, people want to see good football too. But ask yerself, despite all the doom and gloom about our game, what sort of crowds would Hearts get if prices were quite low? We already get 12, 13 for CAT B games. Ok, if prices are low, wages are low etc.... but if this was across the board i`d still expect Hearts to be one of the leading lights in Scottish Football.

 

 

 

I think each club would get a respectable number of fans back, unless you are toiling at the wrong end of the table.

 

Clubs need to reduce prices drastically for a long period of time, not just one-off games here and there. Obviously they will need to reduce costs in order to do so, like pay less in wages, but they can only say it does / doesnt work if they have tried it. But none will be willing to do so. We should be able to fill Tynecastle every home game if we get the pricing right.

[bigsuperslim1874]

Expanding the league will not solve all of the woes but it would be a good start. As has been said we need the likes of falkirk, dundee up with us along with the others like ross county to give us a few more derbies - that alone would inject some enthusiasim and swell crowds. The edinburgh and glasgow derbies are great - but what about highland, ayrshire and dundee derbies? Those fans would go nuts for them and rightly so.