Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications (Scotland) Bill

[Craig Herbertson]

If you hate the f........g hibees clap your hands, is this song never to be sung again ?

Is this a hate crime ? i presume it is. Bang goes another song.

 

No doubt the police will be out in force to hit the easy targets in the Hearts end, thanks

to Mr Salmond who has clearly had a big word in the ear of the police all over the country.

 

Perhaps the police should be out doing real police work instead of this nonsense.

 

Getting a bit silly here but I think you can maybe still sing this because in theory they don't belong to any of these groups. You could also possibly hate someone from the Lothian region or Yorkshire or an insurance company as long as you didn't identify it as hatred because of a feature mentioned in the list. Hibs or Hearts supporters are not identified as a group specifically characterised by any of the features on the list.

 

You could also do the time honoured classic and change the word hate to something silly but still mean hate - sort of like the Yankees adopting the word Yankee which was initially an insult.

 

I'm all in favour of not hating people at all but when the day comes that I feel insulted because someone's singing a song at me its time to give up the ghost.

[henry]

Getting a bit silly here but I think you can maybe still sing this because in theory they don't belong to any of these groups. You could also possibly hate someone from the Lothian region or Yorkshire or an insurance company as long as you didn't identify it as hatred because of a feature mentioned in the list. Hibs or Hearts supporters are not identified as a group specifically characterised by any of the features on the list.

 

You could also do the time honoured classic and change the word hate to something silly but still mean hate - sort of like the Yankees adopting the word Yankee which was initially an insult.

 

I'm all in favour of not hating people at all but when the day comes that I feel insulted because someone's singing a song at me its time to give up the ghost.

 

 

 

The problem i have is that Scottish football culture is going to be ruined and that our football grounds will

be places where people fear to raise a voice just in case what they say sees them arrested and their life ruined.

 

Our stadiums in Scotland are empty and this law will not help people come through the gate, fans have to be allowed to

be allowed to indulge in banter with opposition fans and do what they can to put off the opposition as well as encourage

their own team and sometimes that gets close to the bone for some. You can count me out of Scottish fitba if the day comes

when we have to sit on our hands for 90 mins.

 

This whole nonsense is basiclly one mans doing but none of the snp lot appear to realise that.

[southside1874]

What a waste of time - all of this can be dealt with quite simply with a breach of the peace charge. Talk about a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

 

Maybe the real problem is that the policing at football matches in certain grounds has been lax to say the least. We don't need more and more pointless legislation what we really need in more robust policing and proper efforts made to deal with the offenders.

 

Correct. The legislation is in place but the charge of breach of the peace doesn't hold the same stigma as racial or sectarian. Its more aimed at folk understanding what it is that they have done instead of it being confused with a simple breach of the peace.

 

As there has been a large amount of complaints about this behaviour then they have to be seen to act.. It is a poison.

 

 

[Guest C00l K1d]

I wonder how much they will actually enforce this though.

 

My guess is, not very.

[southside1874]

The problem i have is that Scottish football culture is going to be ruined and that our football grounds will

be places where people fear to raise a voice just in case what they say sees them arrested and their life ruined.

 

Our stadiums in Scotland are empty and this law will not help people come through the gate, fans have to be allowed to

be allowed to indulge in banter with opposition fans and do what they can to put off the opposition as well as encourage

their own team and sometimes that gets close to the bone for some. You can count me out of Scottish fitba if the day comes

when we have to sit on our hands for 90 mins.

 

This whole nonsense is basiclly one mans doing but none of the snp lot appear to realise that.

 

I'm sure they will have padded cells with TV's for folk who wish to build themselves up into a state.

[southside1874]

I wonder how much they will actually enforce this though.

 

My guess is, not very.

 

They'll pick out the bad boys. The ones who are actually venting anger at the opposite support and rather than watching the game.

[jumpship]

ALEX Salmond has warned that football in Scotland would go into terminal decline unless politicians in the Scottish Parliament united to crack down on sectarianism.

The First Minister said yesterday that European football authorities would take action against Scottish clubs and there would not be "a football game left" unless religious hatred was tackled effectively.

 

His apocalyptic vision of the game's future came to light at First Minister's Questions, when he was challenged over anti-bigotry laws currently going through parliament.

 

The Scottish Conservative leader Annabel Goldie questioned whether new laws were necessary, arguing that existing law would be strong enough if it was more robustly enforced.

 

Mr Salmond countered by citing evidence given to parliament by Scotland's most senior law officer, the Lord Advocate Frank Mulholland.

 

The Lord Advocate had said there had been cases of supporters shouting racial abuse at games, which had not been covered by breach of the peace legislation because it was not disturbing in the context of a football match.

 

Mr Salmond said: "Breach of the peace has changed and left these gaps. We have to be able, as a chamber and a parliament, to get into a state of thinking where we recognise that there are some things that we must tackle jointly as a society.

 

"If I can just state that unless we face down what has happened in our football grounds and around our football grounds and have the courage and integrity to tackle it as a parliament, we won't have a football game left in Scotland."

 

Mr Salmond said European footballing authorities would take action against Scotland if unacceptable behaviour continued.

 

Last season, UEFA fined Glasgow Rangers ?35,000 and banned fans from attending an away game in Europe after finding them guilty of discriminatory behaviour during the Europa Cup clashes with PSV Eindhoven.

 

Rangers also received a suspended sentence which would see them play a European game behind closed doors if fans step out of line over the next three years.

 

Fans accused Mr Salmond of over-reacting. Stephen Smith, the former chairman of the Rangers Supporters' Trust, said: "It is fair to say that this is grossly overblown rhetoric that typifies this government's approach to this issue.

 

"There is an ever increasing body of people who are realising this is not a genuine attempt to deal with the problem in football. It is political grandstanding and for whatever reason - an exaggeration of the problem."

[Adi Dassler]

Has anyone ever seen Salmond at a Hearts game?

 

He's lost my vote anyway.

 

 

 

[GD_JAMBO]

which of the above counts as people going out of their way to be offended, please?

 

 

sexual orientation which is refering to basically hommosexuals nationality english and scottish people call each other names as banter disability dean shiels has 1 eye we were merely pointing it out i do not think he was offended so why are people in the stands offended it is a bit of banter

[wibble]

sexual orientation which is refering to basically hommosexuals nationality english and scottish people call each other names as banter disability dean shiels has 1 eye we were merely pointing it out i do not think he was offended so why are people in the stands offended it is a bit of banter

 

Calling colored people nignogs could be considered banter too then?

[wibble]

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/scotland/Antisectarian-jail-scheme-gets-funding.6842165.jp

 

Good to see that the training scheme for prisoners only deals with Old Firm fans. Looks like the Iona Community know the score.

[GD_JAMBO]

Calling colored people nignogs could be considered banter too then?

no stop trying to twist my post racism and sectarianism should be banned

[MacDonald Jardine]

no stop trying to twist my post racism and sectarianism should be banned

 

But homophobia and jibes about disabilities are okay.

[GD_JAMBO]

But homophobia and jibes about disabilities are okay.

 

 

oh forgodsake it is banter at the scottish cup final nearly every single 1 of our fans sang a song that could offend hommosexuals what should we all be arrested should we feel guilty

[The Gasman]

oh forgodsake it is banter at the scottish cup final nearly every single 1 of our fans sang a song that could offend hommosexuals what should we all be arrested should we feel guilty

 

Unfortunately with the way this legislation is worded - YES!

 

I'm struggling to think of a single song about opposition player(s) club(s) or fan(s) that would not now be illegal.

[GD_JAMBO]

Unfortunately with the way this legislation is worded - YES!

 

I'm struggling to think of a single song about opposition player(s) club(s) or fan(s) that would not now be illegal.

 

 

i know the new legislation is ridiculous

[CMc]

Unfortunately with the way this legislation is worded - YES!

 

I'm struggling to think of a single song about opposition player(s) club(s) or fan(s) that would not now be illegal.

 

"You're no very good"? Or would that be seen as likely to cause offense? "[insert name of latest horrific Hobo goalie] gie us a wave?" That would be ok surely?

[Rick Grimes]

oh forgodsake it is banter at the scottish cup final nearly every single 1 of our fans sang a song that could offend hommosexuals what should we all be arrested should we feel guilty

 

 

its banter to mock disability? if its one of your mates, fair enough, if its a stranger then its really not regardless of whether or not they're on a football pitch. you don't get carte blanche to shout what you want just because you're in a crowd.

 

the amount of folk unable to grasp this is unreal.

[MacDonald Jardine]

its banter to mock disability? if its one of your mates, fair enough, if its a stranger then its really not regardless of whether or not they're on a football pitch. you don't get carte blanche to shout what you want just because you're in a crowd.

 

the amount of folk unable to grasp this is unreal.

 

The point is while you don't get carte blanche to shout what you want there has always been a fair bit of latitude for football crowds. That's what makes them a football crowd.

This bill is taking all of that away.

 

Saying that there's a lot of hypocrites on here who become very self righteous about anything they can vaguely construe as "racist" or "sectarian" but become quite indignant when it's suggested they can't use their own chosen insults.

[Rick Grimes]

The point is while you don't get carte blanche to shout what you want there has always been a fair bit of latitude for football crowds. That's what makes them a football crowd.

This bill is taking all of that away.

 

Saying that there's a lot of hypocrites on here who become very self righteous about anything they can vaguely construe as "racist" or "sectarian" but become quite indignant when it's suggested they can't use their own chosen insults.

 

 

 

this is very much the issue I'm afraid. and you're right that there has been some latitude in the past but those taking it too far are the ones to blame for more draconian measure having to be introduced.

[GD_JAMBO]

its banter to mock disability? if its one of your mates, fair enough, if its a stranger then its really not regardless of whether or not they're on a football pitch. you don't get carte blanche to shout what you want just because you're in a crowd.

 

the amount of folk unable to grasp this is unreal.

 

 

i know a person with 1 eye and he makes the jokes about it did you really get angry when we sang about dean shiels having 1 eye i mean come on you would have to be a bit touchy to get angry

[Nelly Terraces]

Gives plod the perfect excuse to carry out some high profile 'sexy' arrests. So much easier to do that than try bother with all that bothersome real crime taking place everywhere.

 

Wanx.

[Enzo Chiefo]

this is very much the issue I'm afraid. and you're right that there has been some latitude in the past but those taking it too far are the ones to blame for more draconian measure having to be introduced.

 

The whole issue here is about perspective. If we were living in a virtually crime free country, like Saudi Arabia, then fair enough. But there are cases every day of knife carrying thugs, rapists and murderers being treated with incredible leniency. We also have a Justice Minister who has made a number of incredible statements and proposals - even suggesting that knife thugs sentences should be dependent upon the number of stitches their victims require. So, in the scheme of things, anything that is sung, said or chanted in a football stadium is unimportant. On a scale of triviality it's right up there with the over-hyped phone hacking investigation. What the naive, out-of-touch SNP government should realise is that songs and banners don't injure or kill people - knife carriers and thugs do. The comments of tommorow's match commander in today's EEN beggar belief - it appears to be OK to fly flags and sing songs as long as it's not intended to be "deliberately offensive". Prove the "intention" in court then!! Obviously they have not learned anything from the John Wilson case.

 

Start hammering real criminals and leave football fans alone.

[Rick Grimes]

i know a person with 1 eye and he makes the jokes about it did you really get angry when we sang about dean shiels having 1 eye i mean come on you would have to be a bit touchy to get angry

 

that was my point in saying its a different matter between friends. if you can't distinguish between that & thousands of people barracking you then you're severely lacking in empathy.

[Rick Grimes]

The whole issue here is about perspective. If we were living in a virtually crime free country, like Saudi Arabia, then fair enough. But there are cases every day of knife carrying thugs, rapists and murderers being treated with incredible leniency. We also have a Justice Minister who has made a number of incredible statements and proposals - even suggesting that knife thugs sentences should be dependent upon the number of stitches their victims require. So, in the scheme of things, anything that is sung, said or chanted in a football stadium is unimportant. On a scale of triviality it's right up there with the over-hyped phone hacking investigation. What the naive, out-of-touch SNP government should realise is that songs and banners don't injure or kill people - knife carriers and thugs do. The comments of tommorow's match commander in today's EEN beggar belief - it appears to be OK to fly flags and sing songs as long as it's not intended to be "deliberately offensive". Prove the "intention" in court then!! Obviously they have not learned anything from the John Wilson case.

 

Start hammering real criminals and leave football fans alone.

 

 

ah, the old go after the real criminals argument.

 

what you're missing is that many forms of hate speech, including but not limited to sectarianism, racism & discrimination against disabled people, stoke the fires for the very crimes you're speaking out against in larger society.

 

this isn't about making football fans uncomfortable, its about trying to address the roots of real criminality on a much larger scale. football isn't to blame for all of these issues but it does have a role to play in tackling them.

[Guest C00l K1d]

Sounds like they're trying to turn it into a rugby type atmosphere

[The Gasman]

its banter to mock disability? if its one of your mates, fair enough, if its a stranger then its really not regardless of whether or not they're on a football pitch. you don't get carte blanche to shout what you want just because you're in a crowd.

 

the amount of folk unable to grasp this is unreal.

 

You referring to homosexuals as having a "disability" suggests you have your own problems in grasping reality!

[Rick Grimes]

You referring to homosexuals as having a "disability" suggests you have your own problems in grasping reality!

 

 

 

nice try

[mrrossy]

I can't see a problem with what this bill is trying to do. Thinking back to the atmosphere the night Lennon was attacked, It was verging on insanity. Too many people

get carried away at the football and forget that there are boundaries which should not be crossed no matter how much you think you might hate someone.. The sad fact is that too many people still see it as a place to vent what can only be described as irrational hatred. If this bill cuts down on that then it's all good as far as I'm concerned.

[GD_JAMBO]

that was my point in saying its a different matter between friends. if you can't distinguish between that & thousands of people barracking you then you're severely lacking in empathy.

 

 

the diffrence is obvious but as i said why would someone who has got 2 eyes take offence to it when the person with 1 eye doesnt anyway we are going in circles now

[Midfield Dynamo]

We hate jimmy hill song would be banned

 

In yer Gorgie slums - Making fun of people in poverty, thats just shocking !

 

Songs by the hobos about our pink bus shelter-especially when they do it in an aggressive manner.

 

Alex Salmond and the snp are a total disgrace, maybe he and his lot should get the police doing work

like catching real criminals instead of ruining scottish fitba by picking on easy targets and making scottish fitba

a joke to the rest of the fans around the world.

 

I liked your post until you started calling ALex SAlmond a disgrace.

Something has got to be done about the cancer that is bigotry in SCotland.

The Celtic game at the end of last season was sickening.

I have been to a few PRemiership games and the atmosphere is far more suitable to take your kids with you. We need to get rid of the ULster guff for good.

As far as the homophobic and disability law.........I don't think we have a problem with that at Hearts. A wee bit of banter should be acceptable.

[Enzo Chiefo]

I liked your post until you started calling ALex SAlmond a disgrace.

Something has got to be done about the cancer that is bigotry in SCotland.

The Celtic game at the end of last season was sickening.

I have been to a few PRemiership games and the atmosphere is far more suitable to take your kids with you. We need to get rid of the ULster guff for good.

As far as the homophobic and disability law.........I don't think we have a problem with that at Hearts. A wee bit of banter should be acceptable.

 

Alex Salmond is a failed Westminster politician who loves the sound of his own voice Dangerously, however, he is leading a government that is intent on telling us what to eat, drink, smoke, sing, recycle and think. He has interfered in just about every aspect of our lives. This all came about because of a bit of handbags after the OF game last season which was nothing compared to the scenes after the recent Barca v Real Madrid clash. That game is all about hatred due to territorial, national and political differences. I don't see the Spanish government calling emergency summits and deploying the thought police!!! They police violent criminals and do it severely...we do it the wrong way here, hit the easy targets and stand back and watch thugs riot and smash up property. Also, I dont think David Cameron will be getting involved after the scenes at Goodison yesterday with coins and bottles being thrown at Suarez!!

[I.J]

Alex Salmond is a failed Westminster politician who loves the sound of his own voice Dangerously, however, he is leading a government that is intent on telling us what to eat, drink, smoke, sing, recycle and think. He has interfered in just about every aspect of our lives. This all came about because of a bit of handbags after the OF game last season which was nothing compared to the scenes after the recent Barca v Real Madrid clash. That game is all about hatred due to territorial, national and political differences. I don't see the Spanish government calling emergency summits and deploying the thought police!!! They police violent criminals and do it severely...we do it the wrong way here, hit the easy targets and stand back and watch thugs riot and smash up property. Also, I dont think David Cameron will be getting involved after the scenes at Goodison yesterday with coins and bottles being thrown at Suarez!!

 

I didn't like it when Alex Salmond told me I couldn't have sausages this morning.

[davemclaren]

I didn't like it when Alex Salmond told me I couldn't have sausages this morning.

 

 

The police came and confiscated my black pudding. I think the neighbours reported me for eating racist fried food. :ninja:

[Enzo Chiefo]

The police came and confiscated my black pudding. I think the neighbours reported me for eating racist fried food. :ninja:

 

If you were eating it before 10am then the neighbours were probably right to report you. That would constitute a breach of the strict Sunday breakfast laws introduced by the Offensive and Dangerous Fried Food (Scotland) Act 2011. They would also be concerned about the passive fumes coming from your frying pan.

[Nelly Terraces]

Alex Salmond is a failed Westminster politician who loves the sound of his own voice Dangerously, however, he is leading a government that is intent on telling us what to eat, drink, smoke, sing, recycle and think. He has interfered in just about every aspect of our lives. This all came about because of a bit of handbags after the OF game last season which was nothing compared to the scenes after the recent Barca v Real Madrid clash. That game is all about hatred due to territorial, national and political differences. I don't see the Spanish government calling emergency summits and deploying the thought police!!! They police violent criminals and do it severely...we do it the wrong way here, hit the easy targets and stand back and watch thugs riot and smash up property. Also, I dont think David Cameron will be getting involved after the scenes at Goodison yesterday with coins and bottles being thrown at Suarez!!

 

 

Please PM me where you drink, I'd like to buy you several pints for that. Nail on head, top post.

 

If you were eating it before 10am then the neighbours were probably right to report you. That would constitute a breach of the strict Sunday breakfast laws introduced by the Offensive and Dangerous Fried Food (Scotland) Act 2011. They would also be concerned about the passive fumes coming from your frying pan.

 

Blinding.

[The Shed Floodlight]

I am afraid the government want us all to be like Fulham fans, and share an end and shake hands with the opposition fans, whilst taking along a good book to read so we don't make any noise. That is what the game is going to become like. With the plod spying on the paying customers and one false move or wrong word then marched off out the ground faster than the Nazi's with the Jews to the Gas camps.

It is just one more bit of enjoyment that the government want to remove from the working class citizen.

[Say What Again]

The Justice Committees 1st Report on the subject for those interested.

 

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s4/committees/justice/reports-11/juR11-01.pdf

 

Published today at 4pm.

[The Gasman]

The Justice Committees 1st Report on the subject for those interested.

 

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s4/committees/justice/reports-11/juR11-01.pdf

 

Published today at 4pm.

 

Just skimmed through this, and it seems to be both bizarre, and massively anti-football, rather than anti-sectarian.

 

I can use certain language quite legally in the street, but use the same language in a football ground, and I've committed a criminal offence!

 

I can use certain language quite legally when traveling to a rugby game, the horse racing, or a boxing match, but use exactly the same language when traveling to a football match, and I've committed a criminal offence!

 

I can use certain language quite legally in the pub, but if they turn on the football on the TV, and I'm using exactly the same language, I'm committing a criminal offence!

 

Why should it make any difference if I am traveling to, watching, or attending a game of football?

 

Surely the issue should be the language I use, and whether or not it is offensive or sectarian?

 

Frighteningly, the Justice Committee concede that the legislation may only be used to make examples, as there would not be the resources to enforce it across the board.

 

It just seems to be ill thought out and unworkable, and from a football fan's point of view I would think it would be, relatively, easily challenged as a breach of our Human Rights. As a football fan, how could I be criminalised for something that is legal for another person who doesn't follow football?

[Martin_T]

I absolutely detest sectarianism or any form of bigotry. But this potential law is absolute nonsense and goes against all the principles of liberal democratic society.

 

Divert all resources being channelled into this into programmes which tackle the underlying social problems that lead to sectarian crime, such as alchoholism and poverty.

[Big D]

The knee jerks on this thread seem proud to be part of the problem. I am sure you have all read the proposal, but if not, here it is. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/law/sectarianism-action-1/football-violence/bill/Q/editmode/on/forceupdate/on. Football is being targeted because that is where the problem is manifest. New legislation is required as present breach laws do not allow for the undoubtedly deterent sentences which will be available to the courts. 5 years instead of 60 days maximum. I wish Scotland did not have to waste everybody's time with this legislation, but since the parties that thrive on the divide and rule politics dictated from London will do nothing to stop the abhorent behaviour of their supporters, the present government would be failing in its duties to normal Scots if it did nothing. I look forward to the swift repeal of this Bill in a normal, 21st century, grown-up Scotland.

[Deevers]

The knee jerks on this thread seem proud to be part of the problem. I am sure you have all read the proposal, but if not, here it is. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/law/sectarianism-action-1/football-violence/bill/Q/editmode/on/forceupdate/on. Football is being targeted because that is where the problem is manifest. New legislation is required as present breach laws do not allow for the undoubtedly deterent sentences which will be available to the courts. 5 years instead of 60 days maximum. I wish Scotland did not have to waste everybody's time with this legislation, but since the parties that thrive on the divide and rule politics dictated from London will do nothing to stop the abhorent behaviour of their supporters, the present government would be failing in its duties to normal Scots if it did nothing. I look forward to the swift repeal of this Bill in a normal, 21st century, grown-up Scotland.

That may well be so - however the real problem in Scottish Society is the Institutional Sectariansim that is in built into daily life in most of the West of Scotland. That's where this issue should really be being addressed. The sad fact is that the Bill is a badly flawed piece of legislation. It's only being pushed through because "El Presedenti" has too much of an ego to rethink this whole scenario. If this is passed - you can bet your bottom dollar that the police will not act agains either of the Old Firm - that would take to much effort - the main thrust of this will be picking off the odd idiot at "smaller clubs". The problem will continue whilst football continues to suffer. I'll warrant that for all the headlines about investigations into the behaviour of Celtic Fans last Sunday - not one arrest or conviction will come out of it. Hot air for the media and to warm the egos the politcal masters the police are now beholding to.

 

Time the politicians really go to work on sectarianism and bigotry and scraped faith schools and the inbuilt religeous bias that goes with them - and then got to work on getting rid of this scrourge from society as a whole and not just picking out football as the villian of the peace.

[portobellojambo1]

 

Time the politicians really go to work on sectarianism and bigotry and scrap faith schools and the inbuilt religious bias that goes with them - and then got to work on getting rid of this scrourge from society as a whole and not just picking out football as the villian of the peace.

 

Agree totally with this Deevers, posted something similar on the other thread about the happenings at Sunday's game. You only have to look at the statement today from the Roman Catholic Church. They have already indicated that based on the proposed bill "we will have to reconsider our support for the SNP", and when they talk about their support they are talking about their flock, i.e. Roman Catholics, who the church can easily convince to do something or not, vote one way or not.

 

If the SNP were to threaten to do away with denominational schools, which in Scotland are predominantly Roman Catholic schools, the shit would really hit the fan, and the SNP's support would plummet. For that reason alone they will not do it, as they would be shooting themselves in the foot, even though I agree totally with such a course of action. That is the area to be targeting, not football fans, in the overall scheme of things football fans are only a very small part of the problem, and to eradicate something like sectarianism and bigotry the change or changes have to be much more radical than locking up a few non OF fans for something at football which the same law appears to say they can say away from a football match without any risk of prosecution.

 

 

Anyone that believes that sectarianism and bigotry is something that only happens on a Saturday, around football matches is feckin clueless and shouldn't be involved in politics.

[MacDonald Jardine]

The knee jerks on this thread seem proud to be part of the problem. I am sure you have all read the proposal, but if not, here it is. http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Justice/law/sectarianism-action-1/football-violence/bill/Q/editmode/on/forceupdate/on. Football is being targeted because that is where the problem is manifest. New legislation is required as present breach laws do not allow for the undoubtedly deterent sentences which will be available to the courts. 5 years instead of 60 days maximum. I wish Scotland did not have to waste everybody's time with this legislation, but since the parties that thrive on the divide and rule politics dictated from London will do nothing to stop the abhorent behaviour of their supporters, the present government would be failing in its duties to normal Scots if it did nothing. I look forward to the swift repeal of this Bill in a normal, 21st century, grown-up Scotland.

 

These parties can't do anything. These are matters devolved to Holyrood.

[Craig Herbertson]

I absolutely detest sectarianism or any form of bigotry. But this potential law is absolute nonsense and goes against all the principles of liberal democratic society.

 

Divert all resources being channelled into this into programmes which tackle the underlying social problems that lead to sectarian crime, such as alchoholism and poverty.

 

Correct. Football has long been a game where folks go to bury the working week in the excitement of a tough physical game. Emotions run high, behaviour is probably less than perfect and the worst elements of it should be sorted out. But legislation exists to deal with all that. Unfortunately the whole of the UK is tied to some ridiculous bureaucracy in Europe which is rapidly taking the fun out of everything. We don't need hundreds of new laws, just the implementation of the ones we've got and some sensible long term policies.

[Big D]

These parties can't do anything. These are matters devolved to Holyrood.

The Scotland based branches of these parties all have representatives at Holyrood, but continue to be obstructive towards addressing sectarianism. One of the main political strategies to control Scotland has been divide and rule policies. The tacit support of sectarianism is a main strand of that strategy. That is the real shame for Scotland. Having said that, I think the legislation will have to altered in committee as it has flaws in its breadth of focus and the ability to secure meaningful results. The reaction from religious leaders is political, and from the likes of Michael Kelly pathetically transparent of supporting division. Not surprising as that is how his ilk make their money.

[The White Cockade]

Why do so many on here keep going on about the SNP vote plummeting if the Courts go after Celtic?

Sorry but that is absolute garbage

The SNP's support is from across the board including Asians and English people living in Scotland, protestants, catholics and muslims etc

If people are so biased to think only Catholics vote SNP then we do have a problem

It could well be that a larger percentage of Hearts fans vote SNP than Celtic's - who knows and who cares!

I don't think the new Bill is workable personally but at least this Government have had the guts to do something

about Scotland's sectarian divide

Something should have been done decades ago to drag the West of Scotland into the modern world

[Colonel Kurtz]

Why do so many on here keep going on about the SNP vote plummeting if the Courts go after Celtic?

Sorry but that is absolute garbage

The SNP's support is from across the board including Asians and English people living in Scotland, protestants, catholics and muslims etc

If people are so biased to think only Catholics vote SNP then we do have a problem

It could well be that a larger percentage of Hearts fans vote SNP than Celtic's - who knows and who cares!

I don't think the new Bill is workable personally but at least this Government have had the guts to do something

about Scotland's sectarian divide

Something should have been done decades ago to drag the West of Scotland into the modern world

lets look at who is speaking out against the bill

nil By Mouth ..tim organisation with a former labour party special adviser as their mouthpiece

Some Dodgy looking RC Bishop from paisley...he wants only anti catholic bigotry to be pursued,whilst claiming that PRO IRA songs are a celebration of heritage and culture

MIchael Kelly even dogier looking..former leader of Glasgow cooncil which has a terrible record of nepotism and religous bias..still i suppose he was better than the coke addled nice boy they ended up with.

George Galloway who wants jury vetting to exclude Hearts fans and protestants

Mcbride QC Celtic mouthpiece and also the Tories lgal advisor in SCotland

THe Blue Order

The Green Brigade

Im starting to be in favour

[The White Cockade]

lets look at who is speaking out against the bill

nil By Mouth ..tim organisation with a former labour party special adviser as their mouthpiece

Some Dodgy looking RC Bishop from paisley...he wants only anti catholic bigotry to be pursued,whilst claiming that PRO IRA songs are a celebration of heritage and culture

MIchael Kelly even dogier looking..former leader of Glasgow cooncil which has a terrible record of nepotism and religous bias..still i suppose he was better than the coke addled nice boy they ended up with.

George Galloway who wants jury vetting to exclude Hearts fans and protestants

Mcbride QC Celtic mouthpiece and also the Tories lgal advisor in SCotland

THe Blue Order

The Green Brigade

Im starting to be in favour

 

Maybe the Bill has more going for it than I thought!

We'll have to wait and see how its policed - if they begin to sort out the Old Firm bigots then all well and good

the only worry I have is that they might hit the smaller and easier targets first

but somebody has to take the first step and Labour and Tory have both given if the deaf ear for years

[Guest Dipped Flake]

lets look at who is speaking out against the bill

nil By Mouth ..tim organisation with a former labour party special adviser as their mouthpiece

Some Dodgy looking RC Bishop from paisley...he wants only anti catholic bigotry to be pursued,whilst claiming that PRO IRA songs are a celebration of heritage and culture

MIchael Kelly even dogier looking..former leader of Glasgow cooncil which has a terrible record of nepotism and religous bias..still i suppose he was better than the coke addled nice boy they ended up with.

George Galloway who wants jury vetting to exclude Hearts fans and protestants

Mcbride QC Celtic mouthpiece and also the Tories lgal advisor in SCotland

THe Blue Order

The Green Brigade

Im starting to be in favour

 

Any sane person only has to look at that list of people/oprganisations that are against the bill to realise that the bill is indeed needed