How big a deal is the lack of a reserve league?!

[loveofthegame]

Thoughts? I touched upon this in the Rudi thread, but felt it deserved a thread of its own.

 

How big a deal is the lack of reserve team football for our (and other clubs) fringe players?!

 

IMO being thrown into matches when you've been on the sidelines for weeks/months is a really big ask of any player. How can players be expected to perform when coming straight into a team from the cold?! Training doesn't make up for a lack of match practice.

 

I also wonder if the lack of reserve league has impacted on the development of guys like Gary Glen?! With no regular 1st team football, and being too old for the under 19s, players like GG have few and far between chances of playing 90 minutes, staying sharp and developing. I fear that promising youngsters like McGowan and Robinson will go the same way if they can't find their way into the 1st team soon.

 

How it impacts on players returning from long term injuries is another valid question!? would, for example, Andy Drivers return have been more successful if he had a few months of reserve team football under his belt?!

 

This thread wasn't just set up to defend Rudi, but when a player has started only 1 game/a handful of games all season to date, how can they be expected to come in and suddenly perform to the best of their abilities?! That goes for guys like Sutton/Temps/Novi/Eggert/Smith too who are struggling to get regular games in the 1st XI.

 

IMO its a huge failing of the SPL.

[fabienleclerq]

I really cant see the logic not having one.We should have either a reserve league or a u23 league with say 3 overage players max.

 

Glen imo isnt good enough so it wouldnt have helped much but the players like robinson/smith etc could do with a level between the first team and 19s.

 

And for players returning from injury the current set up must really hamper them.

[Loorimer]

Thoughts? I touched upon this in the Rudi thread, but felt it deserved a thread of its own.

 

How big a deal is the lack of reserve team football for our (and other clubs) fringe players?!

 

IMO being thrown into matches when you've been on the sidelines for weeks/months is a really big ask of any player. How can players be expected to perform when coming straight into a team from the cold?! Training doesn't make up for a lack of match practice.

 

I also wonder if the lack of reserve league has impacted on the development of guys like Gary Glen?! With no regular 1st team football, and being too old for the under 19s, players like GG have few and far between chances of playing 90 minutes, staying sharp and developing. I fear that promising youngsters like McGowan and Robinson will go the same way if they can't find their way into the 1st team soon.

 

How it impacts on players returning from long term injuries is another valid question!? would, for example, Andy Drivers return have been more successful if he had a few months of reserve team football under his belt?!

 

This thread wasn't just set up to defend Rudi, but when a player has started only 1 game/a handful of games all season to date, how can they be expected to come in and suddenly perform to the best of their abilities?! That goes for guys like Sutton/Temps/Novi/Eggert/Smith too who are struggling to get regular games in the 1st XI.

 

IMO its a huge failing of the SPL.

 

 

I think the lack of reserve league has had a massive impact, for all the reasons you mention above.

 

Top post, the first this week!!!

[jambonian]

No reserve League means little competitive games for youngsters, squad players and players recovering from injuries. I remember years ago regularly attending reserve games at Tynie, the old stand used to be pretty packed because folk were interested to see how promising youngsters were coming along, also wanting to see a favourite player coming back from injury etc.. Some of our players who come back from injury, play a couple or a few games and get injured quickly again because they're not upto match speed, Driver for example is out again then there's Suso and a few others who are not playing at a competitive level so how can they be thrown into the first team without building themselves up again? It needs brought back now, not in a few years and whoever thought that we didn't need a reserve League needs their heid examined!

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I think it is pretty massive personaly.

[Simmo]

Thoughts? I touched upon this in the Rudi thread, but felt it deserved a thread of its own.

 

How big a deal is the lack of reserve team football for our (and other clubs) fringe players?!

 

IMO being thrown into matches when you've been on the sidelines for weeks/months is a really big ask of any player. How can players be expected to perform when coming straight into a team from the cold?! Training doesn't make up for a lack of match practice.

 

I also wonder if the lack of reserve league has impacted on the development of guys like Gary Glen?! With no regular 1st team football, and being too old for the under 19s, players like GG have few and far between chances of playing 90 minutes, staying sharp and developing. I fear that promising youngsters like McGowan and Robinson will go the same way if they can't find their way into the 1st team soon.

 

How it impacts on players returning from long term injuries is another valid question!? would, for example, Andy Drivers return have been more successful if he had a few months of reserve team football under his belt?!

 

This thread wasn't just set up to defend Rudi, but when a player has started only 1 game/a handful of games all season to date, how can they be expected to come in and suddenly perform to the best of their abilities?! That goes for guys like Sutton/Temps/Novi/Eggert/Smith too who are struggling to get regular games in the 1st XI.

 

IMO its a huge failing of the SPL.

 

Absolutely spot on. Like you I can't see any reason for not having a Reserve League. Most clubs have a lot of s-called 'fringe' players who are being paid to keep themselves fit and in training so I can't see any logic in the absence of a League where they could develop their skills and which would cost no more than it costs to have bounce games. Surely they aren't saying that the cost of policing and stewarding at Reserve games make it so unprofitable that it can'tbe done.

 

Maybe now that the gruesome twosome can't afford to bring in the overpaid 'foreigners' they will think again about the whole question and go along with bringing it back asap. Wasn't it them that wanred it scrapped on the grounds of it being too expensive to run?

[davesmith]

It's all financial. In their wisdom the SPL decided reserve teams must have proper officials, be played in stadiums and a few other criteria. This made it an expensive venture as clubs didn't want to play it in the stadium and didn't have them at training grounds so had to rent.

 

The SPL simply should have relaxed the criteria and it would have been fine.

 

What I would say though is if the clubs want it so much why haven't they applied to their local seniors/juniors league to put in a reserve team like Berwick do in the EOSL.

[colinmaroon]

It is arguably the best example of the bankruptcy of ambition in the SPL.

 

 

 

Short term gain (savings from not having a reserve league) = Long term loss as promising players are packed off to the nether regions or kept on the sidelines.

 

 

 

Let's take the example of a player (not a youngster) - Barr!

 

 

Poor start to his Hearts career results in dropping out the team and, pray tell me, how is a player supposed to get back his form without competitive games?

[RussAsia]

A quick question on this.. I know that the reserve league was stopped as some teams couldn't find the finances to run a 2nd team..

 

Also there are a few teams, ourselves, the old firm and hibs i think that would like to run colt teams in the lower divisions..

 

My question in we play a number of closed door matches at Heriot Watt.. why cant teams that want to have more games for their reserve players not get something organized between themselves.. ie not a league but a constant round robin of games where nobody really keeps any results anywhere.. the teams i am thinking about are Hearts, Hibs, Rangers, Celtic, Newcastle, Middlesborough, Sunderland, possibly Carlisle or something.. Maybe the premiership sides would only put out youth teams to play but still at least there would be some football for everyones reserve players..

 

There wouldnt be much in the way of finances as all games could be played at the respective clubs training centres so the costs for an away game would only be the costs of getting down there and the costs for home games would be whatever a referee and 2 linesmen cost..

[davidkeye]

It's been talked about to death now.

 

I think the vast majority of managers, journalists and fans now realise we have lost that traditional stepping-stone to first-team football for many youngsters and it will cost the Scottish game long-term.

 

Let's hope it can be re-instated soon.

[Hansel]

Someone should start a Facebook campaign thingy. I'd do it myself, but I don't know how.

[wavydavy]

Thoughts? I touched upon this in the Rudi thread, but felt it deserved a thread of its own.

 

How big a deal is the lack of reserve team football for our (and other clubs) fringe players?!

 

IMO being thrown into matches when you've been on the sidelines for weeks/months is a really big ask of any player. How can players be expected to perform when coming straight into a team from the cold?! Training doesn't make up for a lack of match practice.

 

I also wonder if the lack of reserve league has impacted on the development of guys like Gary Glen?! With no regular 1st team football, and being too old for the under 19s, players like GG have few and far between chances of playing 90 minutes, staying sharp and developing. I fear that promising youngsters like McGowan and Robinson will go the same way if they can't find their way into the 1st team soon.

 

How it impacts on players returning from long term injuries is another valid question!? would, for example, Andy Drivers return have been more successful if he had a few months of reserve team football under his belt?!

 

This thread wasn't just set up to defend Rudi, but when a player has started only 1 game/a handful of games all season to date, how can they be expected to come in and suddenly perform to the best of their abilities?! That goes for guys like Sutton/Temps/Novi/Eggert/Smith too who are struggling to get regular games in the 1st XI.

 

IMO its a huge failing of the SPL.

 

 

I thought the original reason for stopping the reserve league was to try and reduce the clubs running costs and ultimately reduce the number of players at the clubs.

 

It would appear that most clubs have hardly reduced the number of players on their books at all, the last time I looked at the registered players most clubs had well over 40 players admittedly a number of these will be youth players however that is still a lot of players to pay.

 

With that in mind it seems ridiculous not to have a reserve league yet again, the benefits to the clubs would be enormous by giving fringe players a chance to impress and also a means to getting injured players back to full fitness instead of having to organise bounce games for this purpose.

 

The sooner something is done about re-introducing the reserve league the better in my opinion.

 

I wonder what the clubs think about this?

[Eggo]

No Reserve league is one of the main reasons our game is in such a deplorable state.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Spot on but if teams like Killie can't afford to field two teams what are they supposed to do?

 

That is the harsh reality of Scottish football

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Was this even mentioned in the McLeish report? Seems too big a deal not to have been.

[Tazio]

Spot on but if teams like Killie can't afford to field two teams what are they supposed to do?

 

That is the harsh reality of Scottish football

 

The fact they participate in the under 19s (I presume) means they do have enough players, just not older players.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

The fact they participate in the under 19s (I presume) means they do have enough players, just not older players.

 

Then the younger players suffer from having to move up a level before they are ready?

 

Found this article on the thoughts at the time, some theories that have been proved horribly wrong. Interesting to note who was against it.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/celtic/4109738/Managers-united-in-call-to-scrap-SPL-reserves.html

 

One manager ? understood to be John Hughes ? expressed concern about the futures of young players who would have to be released if the reserves are ditched, but the consensus was that if a would-be professional footballer has not figured in a first-team squad by 18, or 19 at the latest, he would be better finding his level down the divisions. It is expected that the clubs will release an average of eight players each.

 

[Neilson's Shank]

Massive impact on player development, U19 fine but playing against people of own stage of development. Nothing like a youngster coming up against an old school pro to find out physically what is required to play in the first team

[jambos are go!]

Agree with reinstating a reserve league. But do the clubs not get a lot of money for youth development and all the under age teams. So they have to play in those Leagues. A sensible compromise would be to allow 3 or4 older players to play with perhaps a limit on the number of games each could play in a season.

[Currahee!]

Getting shot of the reserve league was so narrow minded.

 

I think JJ was all for it being cancelled when he was at Killie.

 

We need it reinstated now. If some clubs can't afford it or don't have enough players(which is pish) then get teams in from lower divisions.

[Dr. Sheldon Cooper]

A quick question on this.. I know that the reserve league was stopped as some teams couldn't find the finances to run a 2nd team..

 

Also there are a few teams, ourselves, the old firm and hibs i think that would like to run colt teams in the lower divisions..

My question in we play a number of closed door matches at Heriot Watt.. why cant teams that want to have more games for their reserve players not get something organized between themselves.. ie not a league but a constant round robin of games where nobody really keeps any results anywhere.. the teams i am thinking about are Hearts, Hibs, Rangers, Celtic, Newcastle, Middlesborough, Sunderland, possibly Carlisle or something.. Maybe the premiership sides would only put out youth teams to play but still at least there would be some football for everyones reserve players..

 

There wouldnt be much in the way of finances as all games could be played at the respective clubs training centres so the costs for an away game would only be the costs of getting down there and the costs for home games would be whatever a referee and 2 linesmen cost..

 

I like this idea but with England still having a reserve league I can't see those teams being interested in such a thing. Change them for teams like Motherwell, St Johnstone, St Mirren and Dunfermline then it would maybe work more? Those teams would probably have been against a reserve league due to lack of funds, but through bounce games involving teams with relatively short travelling distances between each, expense is reduced as all that needs to be planned is travel, without having the costs of registering a team for a season. Matches could be arranged when it suits both teams and helps keep the fitness of fringe players at suitable levels.

 

I know Hearts have had a few of these games over the last few months but a more regular thing would be ideal for those not in first team contention.

[Juan Rom?n Riquelme]

It's a ridiculous idea. Really shows how out of touch with football that people at the SFA are.

 

It's also a nightmare when you Hearts on FM and every player not in your first 11 is always 'Severely Lacking Match Fitness'

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

An increasing number of English clubs are withdrawing from their reserves leagues. The preference now seems to be behind-closed-doors friendlies against whoever wants a game. To be honest, the standard of the reserve leagues down here (the Premier Reserve League aside) is shite.

 

 

[DalryJambo]

I think the more sensible course of action is setting up a feeder club system or a more flexible loans system.

 

A reserve league sounds like a no brainer but if you look at things from a certain perspective then there could be a smarter way of working things. Effectively one of the consequences of the reserve league system is that lots of talented players are playing in a tier of football that has no prize, virtually no crowds and which is played at 'practice' game pace. The additional cost of these games for Refs, Linesman, Doctors, etc, etc means it is more expensive than you might think to run a reserve game.

 

We have too many teams in the country and that means too many players as well. We also have a dearth of good players and the good ones we have (at all age groups) are signed to only a handful of clubs. For example the top 6 clubs will have a first team squad of anything between 24-30 (give or take) senior players + 15-18 under 19 players + all the younger ones that we can't really include.

 

You obviously don't want your players to play twice a week unless they are competitive games, this includes under 19 players and the core of your squad (each team will have 14-16 players that play in the first team regularly.) won't really be made available for a reserve game, so what you are looking for is a means of getting game time for players coming back from injury and the good youngsters that are to old for the 19's but not good enough for the first team.

 

So say at any one time you have 6 or 7 from the first team squad that are needing game time or coming back from injury and 10-12 players between 19/21 that have a future at the club. To me it would seem a better solution to allow the lower league teams to have 6+ players each season, from various teams, which will bolster their first team with more talented players than they could normally attract. That could mean up to 60-100 players signed to top tier clubs could play in the lower leagues gaining experience, whilst at the same time raising the standard of football in the leagues. This system will benefit everyone except the 'average' players currently at the lower league clubs and could mean less people get top call themselves 'professional' footballers. But hopefully it will mean the players we have should all be of a higher standard.

 

To me it seems madness that teams are playing every week in the lower leagues with players inferior to the players sitting in the stands at SPL teams that aren?t even part of their match squad. And also when young players are released at this age they can struggle to get a team as lower league teams don?t have the money to sign them.

 

It could also allow lower league teams to cut costs as the players could train with their parent club most of the time and train with their loan club two or three times with the rest of the squad. If they pay half the wages of a 19/21 year old that could be better value than the full wage of a 25-30 year old journey-man.

 

It would be a big change, and would need to be regulated in some way to provide security for the lower league teams, but could really improve the standard at all levels of the game.

 

Injured 1st team players could be loaned out, but for a month at a time and regain fitness that way. Depending on how long they are out they should only need 3-4 games to get back to speed, and it could boost crowds at the smaller clubs games as well. I think the main focus should be on developing 19-23 year olds anyway.

[Captain Lithuania]

A good example of this is when Bruno Aguiar was out for 18 months. Played a few games in the reserves before he came back in to the first team. A couple of bench appearances (without playing) and then when he got a few starts he was on fire. I acknowledge that Bruno is/was a quality player, but the reserve games really worked a treat.