Dr. Bapswent Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 We are actually benevolently supporting the lower league teams by going out early so they can earn more cash. We just don't like to talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 The fact europe isn't attached to the trophy has hugely devalued it. It's perhaps time they looked at the format - a Europa style group might be the answer. I'd also suggest they make it mandatory to play minimum of 4 U19's for the SPL teams in each group game. Once it goes to knock out the teams can play whoever they choose. Give the lower division teams some much needed revenue, the SPL teams a chance to play u19's and create a bit more interest in the tournament. The lack of a European qualification is part of it. Personally I think we should put the LEague cup winners into Europe ahead of the Scottish Cup runner up. The bigger change has been the way that the Autumn Schedule has got cluttered up with European midweek fixtures. The Old Firm have up until recently been playing twice a week and clearly the league cup has been way down their list of priorities at least until they get to the semi's The old firm are unlikely to be affected by whether there's a European place attached to the tournament or not and it's with them that the apathy starts This is contagious if your principal competitors for the trophy aren't really trying then victory would be, if not hollow, at least porous and so it slips down other teams priorities as well. The other problem with the explosion of midweek european football is that it's moved the last two rounds into the following year. If Ayr United win in 5 weeks time they'll have a 13 week wait for their semi final. Last time we one a quarter final I'd completely forgotten about it by the time someone asked me if I needed a lift to Hampden. The League cup was never the main event of the season but it used to be able to take centre stage in the Autumn. 6 months before and after the Scottish Cup final the League cup final could at least be the big story of the week. These days it happens in March just as the league is gearing up to "the run in" and just after the Semi-Final draw for the Scottish cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Correct bud,too many wee upsets in the recent past, but some jambos can live with it,i for one cant. Don't jump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yes "Wee Cup" The only people who don't think it's the wee cup are people who think the world hasn't changed since the 1990s The League cup used to be a far bigger deal, it's not now. That's not to say I wouldn't celebrate winning it but I'd party all night as opposed to all week. Similarly the debacle in Ayr spoiled my evening as opposed to my week, never mind my season Or maybe it is the people who are stuck in the mentality of European qualification being the big thing who are stuck in the past?? If SPL clubs continue as they are, which seems likely, we will be looking forward to a big night in the faroes (if they have clubs in round one of prequalification) when we qualify so until things improve, assuming they will a bit eventually, less of the wee cup crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yes "Wee Cup" The only people who don't think it's the wee cup are people who think the world hasn't changed since the 1990s The League cup used to be a far bigger deal, it's not now. That's not to say I wouldn't celebrate winning it but I'd party all night as opposed to all week. Similarly the debacle in Ayr spoiled my evening as opposed to my week, never mind my season The world has changed, for sure. But Scottish football has hardly moved. Just because Arsene Wenger doesn't like it (and he usually has the distraction of the CL) doesn't mean we need to clamber onto the bandwagon here. In a country where it's impossible to win the championship you really do have to ask questions of managers and fans who don't care about one of the two cups we can actually win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Or maybe it is the people who are stuck in the mentality of European qualification being the big thing who are stuck in the past?? If SPL clubs continue as they are, which seems likely, we will be looking forward to a big night in the faroes (if they have clubs in round one of prequalification) when we qualify so until things improve, assuming they will a bit eventually, less of the wee cup crap. Indeed just as it was possible for status of the League Cup to plummet it's also possible that as circumstances change it 's stock might rise again to something approaching the tournament we remember from 1996 If that happens then people who remain stuck in what is now the present will actually be stuck in the past. But personally I don't think that's happened. Although I'm willing to be convinced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fozzyonthefence Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Not that I'm at all surprised by the amount of sudden skepticism and Sergio/players/tactics bashing going on on here after what was admittedly a very poor result for Hearts last night, but FFS people! Typical of a certain vein of Hearts supporters and fans to get their knickers in a twist over a bad performance and result. Jumping on the 'Sergio's tactics are pish/we don't have the players to play the way he wants to' bandwagon is an easy way of justifying a disappointing result against an Ayr side who were out to cause an upset, and all credit to them, they succeeded. We all know these can be dangerous games but nine times (ok maybe eight) times out of ten we come through them without any major worries. These type of set-backs happen to the best teams and to turn on the manager and players after defeat in a tricky away cup tie is a massive mistake IMO. I for one will be continuing to get behind my team and it's manager to the hilt and give them the time and support they deserve to implement what is an entirely new way of working instead of joining in on the predictable and often pathetic knee-jerk reactions of some. And anyway, it's only the wee cup.... COME ON THE JAMBOS If we were coming through these ties 8 or 9 times out of 10, as you suggest, I don't think the fans would be as pissed off. But the facts speak for themselves since 2006 (not that we were great in the cups before that either) - we are winning nothing like 8 or 9 times out of 10 against first division or lower SPL teams - in fact, the complete reverse would be much more accurate. I haven't got the time to check the last 5 years cup results out but no doubt someone soon will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Indeed just as it was possible for status of the League Cup to plummet it's also possible that as circumstances change it 's stock might rise again to something approaching the tournament we remember from 1996 If that happens then people who remain stuck in what is now the present will actually be stuck in the past. But personally I don't think that's happened. Although I'm willing to be convinced Indeed. All aboard the Delorean(spelling?) to find out. I think we are talking about status and relevance to us. At present sadly European games are at a level above our reality. Better to swim properly in our own little pool for the time being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimus Prime Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Also - "Wee Cup". It's only the "Wee Cup" to Tim Lovejoy-esque English Premier fanboys who think football started in 1992 and care more about the haircuts and replica boots of the players than they do about the results. They laugh at any tournament not on a par with the CL and claim one of England's top clubs as their second team. "Wee Cup". FFS. This with bells on. Well done Eldar. Never been comfortable with this "Big Cup/Wee Cup" nonsense. This growing attitude that it's acceptable to get knocked out the League Cup (as i like to call it) because it's in some way beneath us based on Hibs having won it recently and us the Scottish Cup recently is quite frankly pathetic. Anybody who subscribes to this patter really needs to have a long hard look at the history books and how many trophies Heart of Midlothian have accumulated in their 137 year history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Spot on Optimus. We have a shocking record when it comes to actually winning anything. The League Cup is our EASIEST and BEST opportunity to win a trophy. This is FACT. Why? We enter 1 round later than the rest of SPL (bar OF), get put into a seeded draw, which if we win then leaves only 3 games to win to lift the trophy. Compared to the Scottish Cup where we could potentially go out at 1st hurdle getting drawn away at Parkhead for example. Hearts have never won the League Cup in my lifetime and only 2 Scottish Cups in this time. Hardly the record of a club who can afford to consider any trophy "Wee". The whole 3rd force in Scotland crap is also annoying. It's hardly something to be proud of when it involves finishing 3rd in the league and winning hee haw. At least Aberdeen and Dundee Utd have had periods in the not too distant past where there were actually worthy of the word "force". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlo Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 If we were coming through these ties 8 or 9 times out of 10, as you suggest, I don't think the fans would be as pissed off. But the facts speak for themselves since 2006 (not that we were great in the cups before that either) - we are winning nothing like 8 or 9 times out of 10 against first division or lower SPL teams - in fact, the complete reverse would be much more accurate. I haven't got the time to check the last 5 years cup results out but no doubt someone soon will. Exactly. Those of us that are in a huff are not so much raging at the result on Wednesday night - but by the fact that Wednesday is the latest in a recent trend of embarrassing results in the cups against teams we should be beating. Those saying "calm down dear" need to have a look at our cup record in the last few seasons - its appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kennyblack'sshot Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Just because the internet means you can moan and complain at every little thing any time you want it doesn't mean you have to. The reactions after every defeat are comical. Imagine if message boards had been around when we blew the league in 86! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amadjambo Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Just because the internet means you can moan and complain at every little thing any time you want it doesn't mean you have to. The reactions after every defeat are comical. Imagine if message boards had been around when we blew the league in 86! If they had it would have been full of anti SFA moans and moans about dodgy refereeing decisions. As a previous poster pointed out, it isn't so much that we lost to Ayr as upsets have been happening in cups for ever. It's the fact that we seem to be on the wrong end of those upsets quite frequently that grates. Hard to not draw the conclusion that we don't go into these matches with the right attitude and for that the players and a succession of managers take the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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