Geoff the Mince Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Just now, WeeChuck'sHeed said: It's annoying, it obviously counts towards it. I used Juventus and psv as examples, both don't get the biggest crowds In their league but are the biggest/ one of the biggest in the league they play in and both get less than Sunderland, but Monaco are most extreme. Aberdeen, US and Hibs are bigger than them going on stadium and crowds, maybe even Coventry are? Going by some of the logic if Burnley and Bournemouth moved to new 25k stadiums would that automatically make them bigger than us ? Some need to stop bigging up English football . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 14 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said: So our team that finished 6th in Scotland would have done no bad last year in the championship? Fair enough that’s your opinion, I hugely disagree. Dunno, but I'll say we'd have stayed up? Big clubs can have bad seasons, no denying that. But when it 30/40/50 bad seasons, time to call a club what it is. Well supported but shite. Potential, maybe aye, maybe naw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 5 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said: Going by some of the logic if Burnley and Bournemouth moved to new 25k stadiums would that automatically make them bigger than us ? Some need to stop bigging up English football . Yip, were/are Wigan bigger than us? They e en sneaked a cup win in? Leicester..... Could be a debate! Bournemouth were paying 100ka week, bigger than Celtic as they have more money and get better players? It's not their fault, sky have allot to answer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said: Yip, were/are Wigan bigger than us? They e en sneaked a cup win in? Leicester..... Could be a debate! Bournemouth were paying 100ka week, bigger than Celtic as they have more money and get better players? It's not their fault, sky have allot to answer for. Imagine bigging up yo yo clubs who win Feck all and running down thier own team in the process , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 36 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said: Why are they ? What have they won ? What were thier crowds at Roker Park ? They are nomarks . They have won less than the Welsh champions in recent years as have we. At Roker Park where they smaller than ours? Since then what? Double ours? Much more ££ better known players over the last 30 years internationalists playing for them all over the shop, an amazing stadium but they haven’t been in Europe or won anything so they aren’t as big as Scottish clubs? Ludicrous. TNS are in the champions league every year does that make them bigger than us? Just because we play in front of bigger crowds in a bigger ground and the league we play in allows us to have a lot more money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juanjo15 Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said: Imagine bigging up yo yo clubs who win Feck all and running down thier own team in the process , Whos ran down any team in the process? You’re off your nut if you think we are bigger than Sunderland though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said: They have won less than the Welsh champions in recent years as have we. At Roker Park where they smaller than ours? Since then what? Double ours? Much more ££ better known players over the last 30 years internationalists playing for them all over the shop, an amazing stadium but they haven’t been in Europe or won anything so they aren’t as big as Scottish clubs? Ludicrous. TNS are in the champions league every year does that make them bigger than us? Just because we play in front of bigger crowds in a bigger ground and the league we play in allows us to have a lot more money? It's not only trophies, so your TNS argument is obsolete , it's a mixture imo of Status with you're country ( all you can do) league finishes, general trend. History/ tradition/ City you play in. Culture- rangers/ celtic stick out Trophies and being competitive over time. Crowds, but also what you can increase to for big games. Ofc world wide reputation (helped by league status and the above. Money/ players--for me over a period of time, not a Bournemouth or a Wigan. Current trend, what they have been doing recently and were they are going. Probably more if I thought about it Many big supported English clubs imo are limited as they are litterly just making up the numbers now, every league is becoming more lop sided with clubs even like dortmund, a Madrid, arsenal, spurs struggling to stay competitive, not to mention once big clubs like ajax, psv, Copenhagen, bronby etc and Portuguese, Belgium clubs all struggling to maintain their status as the top 20 clubs or so tighten their grip. For comparison, despite not winning trophies recently and having smallish crowds epl wise,I'd say Everton are comfortably a bigger club than Hearts probably say the same for Leeds and villa ( although not sure on the last 2) Sunderland imo are not. If these clubs( Everton, Leeds) for the next 20 years replicate what they've done recently, and we replicate our last 20 and also based on our structure/ foundation going forward , I might have changed my mind on that as well, even if we are only getting 20k to their 40k. Leeds would have been a 2nd tier team for nearly 20 seasons, Everton 1 trophy in 30 odd years, maybe in Europe 5/6times Sunderland are comfortably imo a second or third rate English club and not bigger than Hearts, the 3rd biggest team in Scotland Edited June 27, 2018 by WeeChuck'sHeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 42 minutes ago, Juanjo15 said: Whos ran down any team in the process? You’re off your nut if you think we are bigger than Sunderland though. Na I'm not bigging up some yo yo nomarks , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 hours ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said: It's not only trophies, so your TNS argument is obsolete , it's a mixture imo of Status with you're country ( all you can do) league finishes, general trend. History/ tradition/ City you play in. Culture- rangers/ celtic stick out Trophies and being competitive over time. Crowds, but also what you can increase to for big games. Ofc world wide reputation (helped by league status and the above. Money/ players--for me over a period of time, not a Bournemouth or a Wigan. Current trend, what they have been doing recently and were they are going. Probably more if I thought about it Many big supported English clubs imo are limited as they are litterly just making up the numbers now, every league is becoming more lop sided with clubs even like dortmund, a Madrid, arsenal, spurs struggling to stay competitive, not to mention once big clubs like ajax, psv, Copenhagen, bronby etc and Portuguese, Belgium clubs all struggling to maintain their status as the top 20 clubs or so tighten their grip. For comparison, despite not winning trophies recently and having smallish crowds epl wise,I'd say Everton are comfortably a bigger club than Hearts probably say the same for Leeds and villa ( although not sure on the last 2) Sunderland imo are not. If these clubs( Everton, Leeds) for the next 20 years replicate what they've done recently, and we replicate our last 20 and also based on our structure/ foundation going forward , I might have changed my mind on that as well, even if we are only getting 20k to their 40k. Leeds would have been a 2nd tier team for nearly 20 seasons, Everton 1 trophy in 30 odd years, maybe in Europe 5/6times Sunderland are comfortably imo a second or third rate English club and not bigger than Hearts, the 3rd biggest team in Scotland You're comparing apples with pears. To compare the 2 clubs' achievements in their respective leagues is absolutely ridiculous as the leagues they play in are completely different, one being far stronger than the other. They have far more supporters and attract much bigger crowds. They just happen to play in a bigger stronger league, in a nation 10 times the size with many other big clubs which are better run. We play in a tinpot league, boringly dominated by the same 2 huge clubs for over 100 years. After ourselves, Hibs and the sheep, clearly the 3rd, 4th and 5 the clubs, the size and quality falls off a cliff edge so even in very poor seasons like the one just ended, we can still finish 6th. An equivalent performance in England would see us deservedly relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said: You're comparing apples with pears. To compare the 2 clubs' achievements in their respective leagues is absolutely ridiculous as the leagues they play in are completely different, one being far stronger than the other. They have far more supporters and attract much bigger crowds. They just happen to play in a bigger stronger league, in a nation 10 times the size with many other big clubs which are better run. We play in a tinpot league, boringly dominated by the same 2 huge clubs for over 100 years. After ourselves, Hibs and the sheep, clearly the 3rd, 4th and 5 the clubs, the size and quality falls off a cliff edge so even in very poor seasons like the one just ended, we can still finish 6th. An equivalent performance in England would see us deservedly relegated. I agree with most of your post apart from the last bit. The bottom half of the EPL is relatively poor given the money they have. Lots of teams just survive every season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adambraejambo Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 What people are forgetting though is if Hearts had been in the English Championship last season our transfer/player budget would be far far greater than what it was. Also we prob would not of built a new stand we would of needed a new stadium as I think we would be the top attraction for any English fans wanting a weekend away. We would be selling 4/5/6000 away tickets on a regular basis as well as alot more Hearts fans/tourists and neutrals coming along. We would be getting alot more cash from tv from sponsership from everyway there is to make cash. Nobody can say if we would have stayed up. Won the league or been mid table as our squad would be nothing like what we had but we would have instantly been seen as bigger than more than half the teams in that league. Look at it this way Hearts and Sunderland both after same player. We both offer same cash and wages I'd say 80% of the time the player would pick Edinburgh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said: You're comparing apples with pears. To compare the 2 clubs' achievements in their respective leagues is absolutely ridiculous as the leagues they play in are completely different, one being far stronger than the other. They have far more supporters and attract much bigger crowds. They just happen to play in a bigger stronger league, in a nation 10 times the size with many other big clubs which are better run. We play in a tinpot league, boringly dominated by the same 2 huge clubs for over 100 years. After ourselves, Hibs and the sheep, clearly the 3rd, 4th and 5 the clubs, the size and quality falls off a cliff edge so even in very poor seasons like the one just ended, we can still finish 6th. An equivalent performance in England would see us deservedly relegated. Based on crowds - which you are doing (on their 50k), Sunderland are a bigger club than about 3/4 of Europe. At a guess, would include Juventus, psv, benfica, maybe even rangers and every Greek, Swiss, Danish and Belgium club. Sunderland are not bigger than all of them. Our league may be tinpot but I'll back over the EPL every day. About a third of the sides in the EPL are tinpot, fabricated by sky TV money to look bigger and better than they are, some buy into it and think theses clubs are bigger than us and even clubs like ajax, Brugge, Porto etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwindonJambo Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I agree with most of your post apart from the last bit. The bottom half of the EPL is relatively poor given the money they have. Lots of teams just survive every season. Fair point. Many of these teams have squads full of wage thieves who are very average footballers who once did something good on TV. Another issue with the clubs you speak of is that they routinely field weakened sides in cup competitions to boost their survival prospects, devaluing those competitions in thr process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, adambraejambo said: What people are forgetting though is if Hearts had been in the English Championship last season our transfer/player budget would be far far greater than what it was. Also we prob would not of built a new stand we would of needed a new stadium as I think we would be the top attraction for any English fans wanting a weekend away. We would be selling 4/5/6000 away tickets on a regular basis as well as alot more Hearts fans/tourists and neutrals coming along. We would be getting alot more cash from tv from sponsership from everyway there is to make cash. Nobody can say if we would have stayed up. Won the league or been mid table as our squad would be nothing like what we had but we would have instantly been seen as bigger than more than half the teams in that league. Look at it this way Hearts and Sunderland both after same player. We both offer same cash and wages I'd say 80% of the time the player would pick Edinburgh. Yip 2 sides. Sunderland cannot be a "big" club as they are simply not good enough and haven't been over their history, despite big crowds. Being in a big, competitive league keeps them, well pretty low on the ladder. An the flippity flip, Hearts, cannot get much bigger as they are limited by our tin pot league, but as a result have been relatively successful when compared to a club like Sunderland or even spurs and Everton. Edited June 27, 2018 by WeeChuck'sHeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpy rebus Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said: Na I'm not bigging up some yo yo nomarks , Yo-yo? A yo-yo comes back up whereas Sunderland have been in free fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Eff Sunderland and jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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