Poseidon Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Hi, Does anyone have quick figures on how much we were in debt at the start of the Romanov years and the profit loss each year before administration. i.e Year Start Position Profit/Loss Finish position 2004/5 -?21m -?1m -?22m 2005/6 -?22m -?2m -?24m 2006/7 -?24m etc etc I seem to recall we made a 'profit' a couple of years, due to the DfE swaps and was just interested in seeing the full position over time. Ta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Hi, Does anyone have quick figures on how much we were in debt at the start of the Romanov years and the profit loss each year before administration. i.e Year Start Position Profit/Loss Finish position 2004/5 -?21m -?1m -?22m 2005/6 -?22m -?2m -?24m 2006/7 -?24m etc etc I seem to recall we made a 'profit' a couple of years, due to the DfE swaps and was just interested in seeing the full position over time. Ta I don't have all the figures, but these are a few of the seasons: 2005-06: Net debt ?30m, Loss of ?7m, Turnover ?10.2m, Wages ?10m 2006-07: Net debt ?38m, Loss of 13m, Turnover ?10m, Wages ?13m 2007-08: Net debt ?31m, Loss of 3.5m, Turnover ?9.2m, Wages ?11.3m 2008-09: Net debt ?34.8m, Loss of ?8.6m, Turnover ?8.3m, Wages ?10.5m 2009-10: Net debt ?36.1m, Profit of ?39k, Turnover ?7.9m, Wages ?9.1m That's taken from this: http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/265715-spl-financial-health-check-hearts/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamdub Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I don't have all the figures, but these are a few of the seasons: 2005-06: Net debt ?30m, Loss of ?7m, Turnover ?10.2m, Wages ?10m 2006-07: Net debt ?38m, Loss of 13m, Turnover ?10m, Wages ?13m 2007-08: Net debt ?31m, Loss of 3.5m, Turnover ?9.2m, Wages ?11.3m 2008-09: Net debt ?34.8m, Loss of ?8.6m, Turnover ?8.3m, Wages ?10.5m 2009-10: Net debt ?36.1m, Profit of ?39k, Turnover ?7.9m, Wages ?9.1m That's taken from this: http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/hearts/265715-spl-financial-health-check-hearts/ If ever there were figures how not to run/ruin a football club, these figures back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feeno Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Hi a quick summary of our financial position over the Romanov years SHITE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givememychoice Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I do have them somewhere at home. I got all the accounts from company house, and basically, utterly dire. There was a huge rise in "other costs" or some such. It was when I analysed them that I realised we needed a CVA. Even reducing our wage bill to under ?1m a year would have seen us losing money such was the rise in "other costs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Here are the net debt figures from the Pieman and Vlad years. You will see that the spending and debt started ramping up in from 1998 and didn't stop until last year. 1997 -1,901 1998 -5,481 1999 -6,018 2000 -6,799 2001 -10,238 2002 -14,789 2003 -17,628 Includes ?2M income from Niemi and Naysmith transfers2004 -19,621 2005 -21,526 Includes ?2M debt forgiveness2006 -28,405 2007 -36,249 2008 -30,477 Includes ?10M income from Gordon and Bednar transfers and ?12M DFE swap2009 -34,779 2010 -36,100 Includes ?8M debt forgiveness2011 -24,030 Includes ?10M DFE swap2012 -24,677 Includes ?8.8M debt forgiveness 2013 -26,223 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Awful - disastrous - almost fatal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 We owed it to ourselves though...........that was the line we got was it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 We owed it to ourselves though...........that was the line we got was it not? And we did, until the bank went tits up, and the Lithuanain Government, unlike the Uk one, refused to bail out the failed banks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 And we did, until the bank went tits up, and the Lithuanain Government, unlike the Uk one, refused to bail out the failed banks. In some ways I'm a little glad that was the case.........not sure where we'd be at had it not happened. At least now we have our club back in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hot since 86 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 And we did, until the bank went tits up, and the Lithuanain Government, unlike the Uk one, refused to bail out the failed banks.Aye that's definetly why we went tits up right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strachsuit Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Here are the net debt figures from the Pieman and Vlad years. You will see that the spending and debt started ramping up in from 1998 and didn't stop until last year. 1997 -1,901 1998 -5,481 1999 -6,018 2000 -6,799 2001 -10,238 2002 -14,789 2003 -17,628 Includes ?2M income from Niemi and Naysmith transfers 2004 -19,621 2005 -21,526 Includes ?2M debt forgiveness 2006 -28,405 2007 -36,249 2008 -30,477 Includes ?10M income from Gordon and Bednar transfers and ?12M DFE swap 2009 -34,779 2010 -36,100 Includes ?8M debt forgiveness 2011 -24,030 Includes ?10M DFE swap 2012 -24,677 Includes ?8.8M debt forgiveness 2013 -26,223 To me that really highlights two things. Firstly, the rise in net debt from just under ?2m to almost ?20m in 6/7 years under Pieman was unforgiveable. Secondly, it doesn't half highlight the amount Vlad (through Ukio/UBIG of course) wrote off through debt forgiveness and DfE schemes. Around ?40m there! And before folk start calling me a "Vlad sheep" etc etc, it's pretty obvious that our debt was spiralling out of control under Vlad and those schemes mentioned above were only necessary due to the dire mis-management under his regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Thanks guys, hadn't grasped that the debt was so low as 'recently' as '97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 To me that really highlights two things. Firstly, the rise in net debt from just under ?2m to almost ?20m in 6/7 years under Pieman was unforgiveable. Secondly, it doesn't half highlight the amount Vlad (through Ukio/UBIG of course) wrote off through debt forgiveness and DfE schemes. Around ?40m there! And before folk start calling me a "Vlad sheep" etc etc, it's pretty obvious that our debt was spiralling out of control under Vlad and those schemes mentioned above were only necessary due to the dire mis-management under his regime. The most startling figure was in 2008, when net debt dropped by ?6M, but the club had ?22M from transfers and DFE swaps. Without those, net debt would have shot up by ?16M and that was off a turnover of just ?9.161M that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Here are the net debt figures from the Pieman and Vlad years. You will see that the spending and debt started ramping up in from 1998 and didn't stop until last year. 1997 -1,901 1998 -5,481 1999 -6,018 2000 -6,799 2001 -10,238 2002 -14,789 2003 -17,628 Includes ?2M income from Niemi and Naysmith transfers 2004 -19,621 2005 -21,526 Includes ?2M debt forgiveness 2006 -28,405 2007 -36,249 2008 -30,477 Includes ?10M income from Gordon and Bednar transfers and ?12M DFE swap 2009 -34,779 2010 -36,100 Includes ?8M debt forgiveness 2011 -24,030 Includes ?10M DFE swap 2012 -24,677 Includes ?8.8M debt forgiveness 2013 -26,223 So in real terms our debt at the end of Vlad's reign was pretty much the same as the debt he inherited. Under CPR however ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 ?50M in debt forgiveness or DfE swaps. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Green Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Not bad for two scottish cups and champions league qualifiers. Compared to the Pieman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Thanks guys, hadn't grasped that the debt was so low as 'recently' as '97 There is a similar parallel with Rangers profit/loss figures for the Murray years, where the big ramp up in losses started in 1998 with the start of the Advocaat years. It also shows the importance of CL Group qualification in later years to balance the books. Year ?M 1989 -?2.950 1990 ?1.210 1991 ?0.040 1992 -?0.360 1993 ?2.280 1994 -?2.200 1995 ?0.222 1996 ?1.597 1997 -?0.560 1998 -?12.491 1999 -?24.393 2000 -?24.999 2001 -?16.897 2002 -?35.328 2003 -?29.605 2004 -?5.939 CL Group 2005 ?12.674 Includes one off ?15M uplift on Rangers Media valuation 2006 ?0.092 CL Group 2007 -?6.253 2008 ?7.172 CL group + UEFA final 2009 -?12.651 2010 ?4.209 CL Group 2011 ?0.076 CL Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpos Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 All worth it for a cup and some cracking European trips. Not to mention a cheeky wee relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Aye that's definetly why we went tits up right enough. That's what I said, right enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaka Demus & pliers Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 All worth it for a cup and some cracking European trips. Not to mention a cheeky wee relegation 2 or 3 cups depending on how you look at it.... but yeah I agree it was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Is there not McCann's sale in 1999 and Cameron in 2000 to factor in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Merse Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Not bad for two scottish cups and champions league qualifiers. Compared to the Pieman. It's absolutely scandalous that is all we achieved to be honest with the level of expenditure. Total underachievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Fascione Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Robinson and Romanov were both guilty of terrible financial mismanagement. On the pitch we had good times, great times and bad times. Hopefully, the days of huge debts are behind us. I'm very confident the club will be run properly by AB and the board over the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Here are the net debt figures from the Pieman and Vlad years. You will see that the spending and debt started ramping up in from 1998 and didn't stop until last year. 1997 -1,901 1998 -5,481 1999 -6,018 2000 -6,799 2001 -10,238 2002 -14,789 2003 -17,628 Includes ?2M income from Niemi and Naysmith transfers 2004 -19,621 2005 -21,526 Includes ?2M debt forgiveness 2006 -28,405 2007 -36,249 2008 -30,477 Includes ?10M income from Gordon and Bednar transfers and ?12M DFE swap 2009 -34,779 2010 -36,100 Includes ?8M debt forgiveness 2011 -24,030 Includes ?10M DFE swap 2012 -24,677 Includes ?8.8M debt forgiveness 2013 -26,223 Does the fig in 2005 take into account of monies due to SMG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Does the fig in 2005 take into account of monies due to SMG? Yes - I also made a mistake with the ?2M forgiveness that year related to the SMG "loan" and interest. That happened in Nov 2005 so should have gone with the 2006 figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Benoit Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Is there not McCann's sale in 1999 and Cameron in 2000 to factor in? Certainly explains why there wasn't the big jump in debt on those years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Fascione Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 When did we start/finish redeveloping the 3 stands? I wonder how much of this redevelopment cost contributed to our debt position? I know some of you will have the figures somewhere.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 13 million on players wages. WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco Fascione Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 13 million on players wages. WTF? My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Wtf were they doing in 2008? Nothing above board explains those figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_jambo Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Robinson. 1million to 21million in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Is there not McCann's sale in 1999 and Cameron in 2000 to factor in?Indeed. We made a McCann "profit" in 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Wtf were they doing in 2008? Nothing above board explains those figures. Depressing season that one as well (Frail admitting he was following orders, VladFlu at it's peak, Number 28 etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Hi a quick summary of our financial position over the Romanov years SHITE He nearly killed the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Eye-watering. As well as the financial ruin there is also the underachieving, particularly under Romanov. If he had kept the '05 model of largely letting a half-decent manager get on with it I have little doubt we would have won the league more than once with that kind of expenditure. And who knows? We could have had CL group money in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Hearts Debt Adjusted For Inflation the debt at 2013 prices. 2005 is highlighted as it's the handover of power 1997: -3,019 1998: -8,968 1999: -9,100 2000: -9,985 2001: -14,775 2002: -20,992 2003: -24,318 2004: -26,284 2005: -28,040 2006: -35,861 2007: -43,881 2008: -35,486 2009: -40,703 2010: -40,378 2011: -25,552 2012: -25,429 2013: -26,223 Source for Inflation adjustment: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=CHAW&dataset=mm23&table-id=2.1 In real terms UKIO/UBIG broadly managed to cover the costs of their time in charge but didn't sort out the Pieman legacy debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Berra? ?2 1/2 million? '09? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted November 18, 2014 Author Share Posted November 18, 2014 Wtf were they doing in 2008? Nothing above board explains those figures.We must've had about approaching 50 signed players at that point though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Berra? ?2 1/2 million? '09? Yes Net player trading figures from the accounts Year ?k 1997 43 1998 95 1999 1,620 2000 53 2001 408 2002 1,492 2003 2,161 2004 185 2005 -42 2006 1,041 2007 1,120 2008 9,964 2009 1,814 2010 682 2011 0 2012 1,958 2013 1,066 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Wtf were they doing in 2008? Nothing above board explains those figures. Figures from the 2008 accounts in ?k's Turnover 9,161 Staff costs (11,319) Depreciation (2,845) - Includes (2,206) written off intangible assets i.e. player contracts for Gordon + Bednar I assume Operation costs - (6,243) ------------------------------ Operating Loss (11,246) Gain of player registrations 9,964 ----------------------------- Loss before interest (1,282) Interest (2,248) ----------------------------- Loss (3,530) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaka Demus & pliers Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 He nearly killed the club. This is true. As it happens it may turn out to be the best thing that could have happened to us. I wonder where we'd be now had Tynie been sold and we started playing home games at Murrayfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWL Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 This is true. As it happens it may turn out to be the best thing that could have happened to us. I wonder where we'd be now had Tynie been sold and we started playing home games at Murrayfield. We wouldn't exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Here are the net debt figures from the Pieman and Vlad years. You will see that the spending and debt started ramping up in from 1998 and didn't stop until last year. 1997 -1,901 1998 -5,481 1999 -6,018 2000 -6,799 2001 -10,238 2002 -14,789 2003 -17,628 Includes ?2M income from Niemi and Naysmith transfers 2004 -19,621 2005 -21,526 Includes ?2M debt forgiveness 2006 -28,405 2007 -36,249 2008 -30,477 Includes ?10M income from Gordon and Bednar transfers and ?12M DFE swap 2009 -34,779 2010 -36,100 Includes ?8M debt forgiveness 2011 -24,030 Includes ?10M DFE swap 2012 -24,677 Includes ?8.8M debt forgiveness 2013 -26,223 If my sums are right the ?26m debt as at 2013 is after over ?40m of debt forgiveness or debt for equity swaps. Jeezuz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 If my sums are right the ?26m debt as at 2013 is after over ?40m of debt forgiveness or debt for equity swaps. Jeezuz! You forgot to add the net ?17.6M income from player trading since Vlad took over. The bulk of that came from the sale of the club's assets, i.e. players who were either brought through the Academy or were signed by the club before Vlad took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Can anyone delve in to how much we were paying / due Jonny Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 About ?50m in wages? About ?50m worth of losses? That's some barry cheating there. Surprised fans of other clubs aren't seething about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Can anyone delve in to how much we were paying / due Jonny Brown http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/107204-jonathan-brown/ ?70k (2 years wages) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupid Sexy Flanders Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 And we did, until the bank went tits up, and the Lithuanain Government, unlike the Uk one, refused to bail out the failed banks. Trying to explain this to the Hibbys who claim we somehow "cheated" is like pulling teeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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