9 in the morning till 6pm

[speedbump]

Answer: the English Premier League.

 

JJ remains the only manager of a non-OF club since Alex Ferguson whose next move was straight into the English top flight

 

 

Baws, Walter Smith.

[shaun.lawson]

Baws, Walter Smith.

 

You'll have to remind me when it was that Walter Smith managed a non-OF club, speedy.

[shaun.lawson]

I judged him on his time at Killie. Didn't do all that well IMO and it looks to me that they have improved greatly since JJ was sacked.

 

The timing of the sacking was bad but he was at the Dundee UTD match and nothing had changed from last season. Infact we looked worse. It was a horrible game to watch (eye-bleeding) and Sutton clearly wasn't going to be able to play KK's way so that was plan alphabet out the window and we would have struggled just like the end of last season. Good luck trying to convince someone else because you certainly won't convince me that JJ done good in his second spell with us.

 

It certainly looked that way when he brought in a Sergio a day after. A manager that climbed his way up the Portugues ladder and can give us a different approch.

 

Clearly made up.

 

Sheesh - so bring him in during the summer then! It's not rocket science.

[Denny Crane]

For those who until well after the year 2000 who didn't get into football until puberty had hit them......

 

 

[speedbump]

You'll have to remind me when it was that Walter Smith managed a non-OF club, speedy.

 

Oh right I by passed that bit

[Cigaro]

You'll have to remind me when it was that Walter Smith managed a non-OF club, speedy.

Edit: me too

[Jimmy McNulty]

couldn't call myself a fan at that age no, didn't really get into going to football matches until my Teens. Problem?

 

Problem? No. Just asking.

[davidkeye]

9 til 6, yeah right!! Pro footballers have the best job ever, two or three hours per day max...

[1874robbo]

For those who until well after the year 2000 who didn't get into football until puberty had hit them......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The above picture is the reason JJ was given so much leeway in his second spell by so many fans.

The fact is any hearts manager with his recent record would have had fans shouting for their job long before jj lost his.

And to be in agreement with wright here, killie are playing better this and last season than under jj and I was never happy with his substitutions or tactics!

I will always be thankful for what he achieved in 98 but IMO football has moved on and jj didn't

[Dazo]

Going to go against the grain here and think if he has got the players in too long if that is true. Not denying players have an easy life but I would like to see some of your faces if a new boss came in and more than doubled your hours for the same money. Don't mind(actually i expect) the players doing more on the training pitch but 9-6 is far too long and will do nothing for moral IMO.

[Johanes de Silentio]

Just remember our squad are learning the basics after their 18 month holiday.

 

Worra ******* drama queen!

 

Next week? Wright1989 lays into Tommy Walker.

 

Don't forget to tune in for that.

[i8hibsh]

I'm assuming the majority of the 9 hours will be classroom and theory based. Otherwise it's too much,

 

9 hours times 5 plus at least 1 full game a week is going to exhaust them.Imagine doing a 9 hour gym sesh 5 times a week plus a big game. They are effectively running a marathon a day.

 

It looks like they are tired and not responding well to it.

[Ron Burgundy]

JJ may well be regarded as a Hearts legend but anyone who thinks that he is anything other than a footballing dinosaur in todays day and age is wrong IMO. Times have changed and old school methods are being found out.Before anyone starts this isn't a dig just how I see it.

[ford donald]

2 mins in Paulo lets it be known that training has been extended to these hours.

 

Paulo interview after todays game...

 

About time as well. The longer these guys practice the basics the better. In the coming months we might even be lucky enough to see several meaningfull passes to a team mate in a row, a throw-in that looks like it has been pre-planned and a free kick that can get the commentators using the line "thats one from the training ground!!!" We've not had this for years.

 

Was there any sign of pre-planned set plays today??

They are extremely well paid and should be putting a good shift in,getting paid for doing something you love,must be nice!

[redm]

I used to work on George Street and the number of footballers you spot there wandering about doing bugger all in the afternoons was something else. Having also seen a few join Twitter in recent months you get a very interesting idea of what their weekly routine involves and while I'm sure there's plenty they don't say, what is clear is that they spend WAY too much time betting on stuff and playing bloody consoles in the middle of the day. 'Cept for Denis Prychynenko, of course...they all seem a wee bit in awe of how hard he works. It's a bit disappointing to note that being a conscientious and hardworking footballer who wants to get on seems to put him on a pedestal as something unusual rather than making him the benchmark for what is expected but there you go.

 

Take Spurs for example. Yes, they're something else...but not every single aspect of what they do is dictated by natural talent. That physique might be something to which they're more genetically predisposed than our lot but that doesn't explain how every single of one of them seemed to be a finely tuned athlete. They work their socks off, they can't afford not to at that level. And tennis players. How can they dash around a court at full pelt like that, on their own and sometimes for hours on end...but our footballers sometimes struggle to get through 90 minutes of a match with (9 other outfield players sharing the burden) and scream blue murder for sympathy when we ask them to play two games in the space of one week? It's a bloody crock.

 

It's also good to hear that they're likely to spending more time on the 'academic' side of football. Intelligent play sometimes makes all the difference so studying the theory and the mechanics seems like a no brainer to me. I just hope that this longer (yet still entirely normal) working day will also encompass some community work etc - I very much expect it will. Knowing about the club and the community in which it exists is important too.

 

Nice work Paulo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[davesmith]

I highly doubt they are training 9-6. If they where I would highly question whether the human body could withstand that sort of training day in day out.

 

Its far more likely they are not being allowed the freedom they used to in order to just head home. I think the criticism of JJ is unfair though. It's absolutely incorrect to suggest his players where unfit. The athleticism and general fitness in the last 18 months was very high.

 

I suspect before long we all be getting pretty sick of PS and his suaveness as we crash down the league as if we keep playing the way he has had us we will not be in europe next season. Having watched all of his games so far we have not looked remotely dangerous or capable of scoring.

[topcat]

Should we be worried that some are not happy at the change?

 

 

It may well be that the upheaval has a negative impact in the short term as the changes cause tension and discontent amongst some of the players.

 

I, and presumably Paulo, would suggest that the longer term benefits of a fitter, more skillful squad should make the short term problems worth while.

 

That's the theory

 

However the Hearts support aren't renowned for their patience and neither is Vlad.

[I.T.K]

It may well be that the upheaval has a negative impact in the short term as the changes cause tension and discontent amongst some of the players.

 

I, and presumably Paulo, would suggest that the longer term benefits of a fitter, more skillful squad should make the short term problems worth while.

 

That's the theory

 

However the Hearts support aren't renowned for their patience and neither is Vlad.

 

Was thinking the same. The players could be getting mentally and physically jaded buy the new routine and longer days, hence the performance on Sunday.

 

But I see it as one step back to take two steps forward and in time it will be come the norm.

[savage]

i think they should be in for the day, they get a paid a lot more than me and i can't go home at lunchtime. i remember when Vialli and Ravanelli arrived in the UK and could not believe all the players went home at lunchtime or worse went out drinking. it was well documented that they both worked in the gym on their own in the afternoon as it is what they used to on the continent.

 

if PS wants them in all day and we see the dividends on the pitch it will be well worth it. for years now i have questioned why we get so many injuries and don't look as fit as other teams. maybe PS has come up with a solution for that as well. if you are not at peak fitness you will get injured.

 

whilst i think we have some who will adapt to the new style of play i think we need a new spine to the team and definately a lynchpin in the middle that everything goes through. i think we need to give PS at least three months to see if what he wants to do is going ot work. Vlad will also need to allow him 2 or 3 players to improve the midfield/attacking areas

 

 

[Denny Crane]

I wasn't arguing against the dismissal (although as Shaun says, the timing was botched) but it seemed a particular poster - who claims to be a Hearts supporter - conveyed the impression of being ignorant of what Jefferies had achieved for Hearts. Hence the photo.

[lou]

Hate to say it,but this won't last, Jordan tried it,Paul Le Guen tried it and Collins tried it,the players will never accept this (more so the British players),which is why Scotland will never compete both at domestic and international level

[redm]

Hate to say it,but this won't last, Jordan tried it,Paul Le Guen tried it and Collins tried it,the players will never accept this (more so the British players),which is why Scotland will never compete both at domestic and international level

 

And in order to do so the manager needs the backing of the owners I guess. The problems in getting that at Rangers were well documented at the time and no Hibs boss in recent years has had the full backing of Petrie - something I think has contributed greatly to this weird players v manager thing they've had going on for a while - but I think Paulo will certainly get support for this idea from Vlad, and that could make all the difference.

[I.T.K]

Hate to say it,but this won't last, Jordan tried it,Paul Le Guen tried it and Collins tried it,the players will never accept this (more so the British players),which is why Scotland will never compete both at domestic and international level

 

It depends if Vlad backs him or not.

 

I posted before that as fans we should expect our players to preform to equivalent premiership / championship training standards. A good question to the board at the next AGM.

[Guildford_Jambo]

I can assure you the players are now on the training ground longer than previously.

 

Whether it's 9-6 I'm not sure but it's certainly 'different' and some are not happy......

 

What's your source? Know any names for sure?

 

Anyone who is not happy with working full time hours for the good money can leave and close the door behind them. Not wanted!!

[The_razors_edge]

Hate to say it,but this won't last, Jordan tried it,Paul Le Guen tried it and Collins tried it,the players will never accept this (more so the British players),which is why Scotland will never compete both at domestic and international level

 

You're absolutely right, there's a very good chance a considerable number of the players won't accept the changes brought in by PS. Those that don't should be shown the door pronto. A friend of mine once said "cause change and lead, accept change and survive, resist change and die....". From what I can gather PS is attempting to change the way the training side of the club functions, for the better IMHO. It will take time and it will take the players to buy in to it but if he can bring in his own players who have already accepted this as the norm, combined with players already at the club who are willing to accept this change in training structure whilst at the same time ensuring that under 19's coming through also understand the benefits then it might just work. What HMFC can't do is let PS start this, lose patience when it doesn't bring about instant results then sack the guy meaning we're back to square 1 again. The players need some sort of consistent training regime and I include Strength & Conditioning, sports science and performance analysis in that too on top of actual sport specific training.

[topcat]

Hate to say it,but this won't last, Jordan tried it,Paul Le Guen tried it and Collins tried it,the players will never accept this (more so the British players),which is why Scotland will never compete both at domestic and international level

 

There is indeed a real chance that this could end in tears but I'd rather we took the risk.

 

It used to be thought that the English top flight would be incapable of adopting modern continental methods and attitudes. Eventually it succumbed. Surely they've got to arrive north of the border eventually.

 

It may be that the experience of the Spurs match turns out to be a catalyst for change.

[jamborich]

Hate to say it,but this won't last, Jordan tried it,Paul Le Guen tried it and Collins tried it,the players will never accept this (more so the British players),which is why Scotland will never compete both at domestic and international level

Jim McLean used to do it at Dundee United, it can work

[amadjambo]

Hate to say it,but this won't last, Jordan tried it,Paul Le Guen tried it and Collins tried it,the players will never accept this (more so the British players),which is why Scotland will never compete both at domestic and international level

 

The players accept it in England. They might not be there 9-6 but then they can be trusted to go away and hit the gym at their mansions instead.

 

Top athletes train for hours every day 7 days a week. Running, weights, swimming, etc.

 

Footballers should IMO be at the club 9-6. They can do ball work, gym work, warm downs, physio, video analysis, and importantly eat healthily at the club.

 

Modern football is much much different from even 5 years ago in terms of athleticism and pace. Nowadays, skill and ability is not enough. They have to become FT athletes.

 

Bill Leckie in the Sun today writes an interesting piece about this and highlights the physical change in Charlie Adam, something that was being discussed here on Saturday.

 

So in a nutshell, if players aren't happy at being made to work harder for their OWN benefit as well as the clubs, they should leave ASAP.

[jamboinglasgow]

There is indeed a real chance that this could end in tears but I'd rather we took the risk.

 

It used to be thought that the English top flight would be incapable of adopting modern continental methods and attitudes. Eventually it succumbed. Surely they've got to arrive north of the border eventually.

 

It may be that the experience of the Spurs match turns out to be a catalyst for change.

 

Arsene Wenger was the one who brought the change to the EPL, he changed Arsenal and thus had an advantage over others forcing other teams he change or lose out. If PS is able to do the same at Hearts then you will see other teams changing too.

[Guildford_Jambo]

The players accept it in England. They might not be there 9-6 but then they can be trusted to go away and hit the gym at their mansions instead.

 

Top athletes train for hours every day 7 days a week. Running, weights, swimming, etc.

 

Footballers should IMO be at the club 9-6. They can do ball work, gym work, warm downs, physio, video analysis, and importantly eat healthily at the club.

 

Modern football is much much different from even 5 years ago in terms of athleticism and pace. Nowadays, skill and ability is not enough. They have to become FT athletes.

 

Bill Leckie in the Sun today writes an interesting piece about this and highlights the physical change in Charlie Adam, something that was being discussed here on Saturday.

So in a nutshell, if players aren't happy at being made to work harder for their OWN benefit as well as the clubs, they should leave ASAP.

 

Very much this

 

I wonder if any players actually read this - hope they do and realise they have to buck up their ideas, or they are not wanted

[lou]

Jim McLean used to do it at Dundee United, it can work

 

I hope so,but players now have a different outlook,they are overpaid Primadonna's,however the rest of the world seem to know that you have to work hard for that lifestyle,whereas Scottish players would rather spend their time in the bookies or the PS3

[4marsbars]

When Sergio said "staff" did he mean players or coaching staff? My guess is that the players are not working 9 - 6 but that they are putting in a longer shift than under the previous manager.

[Yoda]

What league were Bradford in when JJ joined them shortly after leaving us in November 2000, please?

 

Didn't he get them relegated?

[Buffalo Bill]

No messing from me: make them work 9 - 6 or **** off.

[Craigieboy]

No messing from me: make them work 9 - 6 or **** off.

[Johanes de Silentio]

Didn't he get them relegated?

 

They were already struggling badly when he arrived - nice effort at sticking the boot into the man who brought us the cup, though.

[Guildford_Jambo]

No messing from me: make them work 9 - 6 or **** off.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

 

 

It's a no brainer, Craigyboy.

 

 

The harder they work, the better they'll be.

[davesmith]

Do EPL, Spanish clubs etc actually train more than our players?

 

I have my doubts. The indications you get from autobiographies, twitter, interviews etc they just like SPL players do 3 hours or so in the morning, followed by a gym work out or similar then head home with the odd tactics session and similar.

[Johanes de Silentio]

Do EPL, Spanish clubs etc actually train more than our players?

 

Dunno - but as well as having better ability, they are fitter and faster.

 

In the old days, players like John Cumming would jog to training, train, then jog home.

 

We don't seem to have many 90 minute players these days.

 

9 til 6, though? I think that's excessive, if it's true - players also need rest.

[Debut 4]

I`d love to train for 8 hours...love it....it`s not as if it would be hard running all day...there`d be lots of ball work, practising set-plays etc...

 

A few grand a week doing a hobby for a living, getting yer kit cleaned for you, getting the best physio, and all you have to do is shower and get changed before clocking out after training....great life...

 

The canutes better not be moaning.....

[Guildford_Jambo]

I`d love to train for 8 hours...love it....it`s not as if it would be hard running all day...there`d be lots of ball work, practising set-plays etc...

 

A few grand a week doing a hobby for a living, getting yer kit cleaned for you, getting the best physio, and all you have to do is shower and get changed before clocking out after training....great life...

 

The canutes better not be moaning.....

 

What can we do about it if they are?

 

Does anyone actually have any real source that this is the case that they are unhappy with it though?

[johnjl]

What can we do about it if they are?

 

Does anyone actually have any real source that this is the case that they are unhappy with it though?

 

You really don`t get this message board lark do you? WE can`t do anything about it, this is a message board for posting and discussing. So we are posting and discussing the topic.

 

Kevin Kyle on the radio was the original source quoted.

[GazzaBroon]

I think the JJ haters will find that longer training times with an earlier start was implemented around the time JJ 1st came back to the club. They are certainly not training til 6pm and you'll be lucky to see any of the players around 15.00pm. Paulos comment was taken a wee bit literally by some folk and you'll probably find that he was actually talking about the backroom staff.

[Debut 4]

What can we do about it if they are?

 

Does anyone actually have any real source that this is the case that they are unhappy with it though?

Was just a passing comment....not saying i have the power to change things if they aren`t happy! But basically i`d be a bit unhappy as a paying fan if the players i support and pay towards can`t hack a few extra hours of dedication towards their trade.

 

As i say, its a dream job. I`d be like a big bairn wanting to stay longer and have a knock about when the hours were just 10am to the back of 12..........it`s always seemed too rushed for me.....do a quick session then feck off with the big bucks..

 

Players need to rest aswell and i don`t know if they`d do 9 til late each day, but if there wasn`t a midweek game i don`t see any harm in doing 3, 4 days of 9 til 4, 5.

[amadjambo]

Reality is most players in Scotland aren't as gifted technically as the EPL players.

 

However, this shouldn't mean that they cannot play or compete at this level.

 

This is where the hard work comes in. You have to work harder than everyone else, Be better prepared than everyone else, and then you have a chance.

 

As someone said on a different thread, fitter body means a fitter mind. If you aren't thinking about catching your breath, or worried that if the pass goes astray you won't have the pace to get back, then perhaps the level of football ability will improve also.

 

There are enough interviews with top top athletes out there for the players to read about the difference dedication can actually make.

[Sergio Garcia]

9 till 6 aint really that long when you think about it, as it wont all be hard training.

 

For example a day consisting of this wouldnt exactly be a slog

 

9-10.30am Breakfast with video anaylsis for players to watch

(Monday it could be the previous weekends game Plusses and Negatives of the game, Tuesday and Wednesday something PS wants to try to implement to Hearts and perhaps watch a team he wants to be like, Thursday and Friday footage of the upcoming opponents and their strengths and weaknesses)

 

11am - 1pm Tradional training, fitness work and ball skills

 

1.30pm - 2.30pm Lunch and some downtime like any normal job

 

3pm - 5pm Some work serious work on set plays, as well an hours game ( I really think more clubs should set there players up to play at 3pm in training to get there bodys used to it) alternating on certain days with with gym work

 

5pm - 6pm Anything else the manager feels needs worked on, or if players wish to work on something personally. Ie the CBs watching the upcoming opposition forwards etc

 

I dont think thats too much to ask. Obviously bits can be changed in this as im merely thinking out loud

[colinmaroon]

I`d love to train for 8 hours...love it....it`s not as if it would be hard running all day...there`d be lots of ball work, practising set-plays etc...

 

A few grand a week doing a hobby for a living, getting yer kit cleaned for you, getting the best physio, and all you have to do is shower and get changed before clocking out after training....great life...

 

The canutes better not be moaning.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Listen, I'm ***** 64 years of age and, if someone offered me ?2k per week to train every day and kick a ball about, I'd be as happy as a sand boy!

[amadjambo]

If my boss told me I was to work extra hours for the sane wage I'd be raging.

 

The difference with sportsmen is that the extra hours will make them better at their job, thus enabling them to earn much more money.

 

It's not rocket science.

 

Yeah, 4 or 5k per week is a tremendous wage. But maybe these same players could be earning 20-50k per week if they showed more dedication. Not all would succeed but all would improve.

 

I'll say it again, 2 words show it CAN be done.

CHARLIE ADAM!!!

[We_are_the_Hearts]

They should also get made to watch more football, including last week when Spurs passed and moved us to death! Then get shown their own game from the weekend in comparison.