Are our tactics too cautious?

[hearts_crazy]

I noticed this on Sunday and even against inferior opposition at home last Thursday. We seem to be doing a lot of passing the ball about in our own half, including a LOT of pass backs to the keeper. There was even a couple of times on Sunday when Kello passed the ball to Zal, who was being marked and whos only option was to pass it back to Kello. Is this a new gay tactic, or is it just that the players up front aren't making themselves available for the pass? It was doing my ******* head in TBH.

 

The other one that we have done a lot in the last couple of games is when defending corners we have nobody staying up top. I noticed a couple of times players not even marking an opponent, just standing around randomly in the box, if they aren't marking someone then why not get up to the centre circle and give us an out ball. On Sunday in particular Motherwell always left a couple of defenders back around the half way, this gives us 2 less players to mark and therefore 2 of our players basically have nothing to do, so why not get up the field, so that when we hoof the ball out it goes to one of our players and not to an opponent.

 

We need to stop being scared of teams and go for the ******* jugular IMO.

[Francis Albert]

I noticed this on Sunday and even against inferior opposition at home last Thursday. We seem to be doing a lot of passing the ball about in our own half, including a LOT of pass backs to the keeper. There was even a couple of times on Sunday when Kello passed the ball to Zal, who was being marked and whos only option was to pass it back to Kello. Is this a new gay tactic, or is it just that the players up front aren't making themselves available for the pass? It was doing my ******* head in TBH.

 

The other one that we have done a lot in the last couple of games is when defending corners we have nobody staying up top. I noticed a couple of times players not even marking an opponent, just standing around randomly in the box, if they aren't marking someone then why not get up to the centre circle and give us an out ball. On Sunday in particular Motherwell always left a couple of defenders back around the half way, this gives us 2 less players to mark and therefore 2 of our players basically have nothing to do, so why not get up the field, so that when we hoof the ball out it goes to one of our players and not to an opponent.

 

We need to stop being scared of teams and go for the ******* jugular IMO.

 

Agree with the second para, but I for one am delighted we seem to be moving away from a big boot upfield in the general direction of a "target man" as our main tactic.

[2NaFish]

I noticed this on Sunday and even against inferior opposition at home last Thursday. We seem to be doing a lot of passing the ball about in our own half, including a LOT of pass backs to the keeper. There was even a couple of times on Sunday when Kello passed the ball to Zal, who was being marked and whos only option was to pass it back to Kello. Is this a new gay tactic, or is it just that the players up front aren't making themselves available for the pass? It was doing my ******* head in TBH.

 

The other one that we have done a lot in the last couple of games is when defending corners we have nobody staying up top. I noticed a couple of times players not even marking an opponent, just standing around randomly in the box, if they aren't marking someone then why not get up to the centre circle and give us an out ball. On Sunday in particular Motherwell always left a couple of defenders back around the half way, this gives us 2 less players to mark and therefore 2 of our players basically have nothing to do, so why not get up the field, so that when we hoof the ball out it goes to one of our players and not to an opponent.

 

We need to stop being scared of teams and go for the ******* jugular IMO.

 

it's a new gay tactic.

 

and its nothing to do with being scared of teams, i dont think barca are scared of too many teams

[Thig Ar Latha]

I noticed this on Sunday and even against inferior opposition at home last Thursday. We seem to be doing a lot of passing the ball about in our own half, including a LOT of pass backs to the keeper. There was even a couple of times on Sunday when Kello passed the ball to Zal, who was being marked and whos only option was to pass it back to Kello. Is this a new gay tactic, or is it just that the players up front aren't making themselves available for the pass? It was doing my ******* head in TBH.

 

The other one that we have done a lot in the last couple of games is when defending corners we have nobody staying up top. I noticed a couple of times players not even marking an opponent, just standing around randomly in the box, if they aren't marking someone then why not get up to the centre circle and give us an out ball. On Sunday in particular Motherwell always left a couple of defenders back around the half way, this gives us 2 less players to mark and therefore 2 of our players basically have nothing to do, so why not get up the field, so that when we hoof the ball out it goes to one of our players and not to an opponent.

 

We need to stop being scared of teams and go for the ******* jugular IMO.

 

Adapting to a new style of play just does not happen overnight, unfortunately. A lot of hard work ahead for the squad to make this work. All this is what Preseason is for, which is very bad timing on Vlads part.

[Dr. Bapswent]

I noticed this on Sunday and even against inferior opposition at home last Thursday. We seem to be doing a lot of passing the ball about in our own half, including a LOT of pass backs to the keeper. There was even a couple of times on Sunday when Kello passed the ball to Zal, who was being marked and whos only option was to pass it back to Kello. Is this a new gay tactic, or is it just that the players up front aren't making themselves available for the pass? It was doing my ******* head in TBH.

 

The other one that we have done a lot in the last couple of games is when defending corners we have nobody staying up top. I noticed a couple of times players not even marking an opponent, just standing around randomly in the box, if they aren't marking someone then why not get up to the centre circle and give us an out ball. On Sunday in particular Motherwell always left a couple of defenders back around the half way, this gives us 2 less players to mark and therefore 2 of our players basically have nothing to do, so why not get up the field, so that when we hoof the ball out it goes to one of our players and not to an opponent.

 

We need to stop being scared of teams and go for the ******* jugular IMO.

 

 

gay tactic....oh please.

 

keeping possession is NOT tippy tappy football.

 

its a thoughtful approach to exploiting a team rather than hopefully (hopelessly) hoofing it up the park.

 

It also keeps possession until the ball can hopefully be used more effectively - unless the opposition makes you makes a mistake.

 

Keeping possession forces the opposition into moving and committing to get the ball - offering you space to exploit and attack.

 

Thats the idea. Unfortunately we are neither used to it, or very good at it just now.

 

give it time.

[DavieG]

I think Sunday looked bad because we had no target men, with all the injuries and Sutton out of favour.Keeping possession is fine as long as we have an end product. Things may improve once Taoul, Elliot and Kyle get fit, and hopefully Sutton recaptures the form he showed against us for Motherwell.

[Gregory House M.D.]

Our forwards are massive huddies, we play far too many midfielders and none of our Central players can pass wind.

 

5 in midfield with 2 CDM's against the shite in SPL makes painful viewing. Wine turns quicker than John Sutton. PLAY THE FECKING YOUTH!!

[The_razors_edge]

Paulo won't fail as a result of his ability to successfully implement a new style of play. He'll fail if he's not given the time to do so or the correct tools to work with. Looking at the squad we've got I'm in agreement with alot of others on here that we don't have the players to adopt this approach at present. I have absolutely no problem with him attempting to bring a more continental approach, with emphasis being placed on retaining posession. At the end of the day if we have the ball only we can score, the opposition on the other hand cannot.

[kissthebadge]

The passing game that our Manager wishes to introduce relies on players moving and finding space without the ball and making space with the ball. In Sergio's first two games, our 'passing game' looks more like a team playing out the last few minutes of a 1-0 victory rather than passing the ball in a way that opens-up the opposing team and creates space.

 

We need a midfield that firstly look for the ball and secondly know what do do with it when they receive it.

 

Hopefully the manager can either teach our players how to do this or uncover one of the existing squad members that has the ability to do this. I for one am not going to live in hope we sign the answer to our problems. I can t remember an occasion in recent history where this has actually happened!!!

 

.

[jambo-rocker]

I have absolutely no problem with us passing the ball from deep. However the passing builds up no momentum or end product half the time. There are too many static passengers in the middle of the park, and it ends up with us eventually making that one bad pass that allows teams to take advantage.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

I have absolutely no problem with us passing the ball from deep. However the passing builds up no momentum or end product half the time. There are too many static passengers in the middle of the park, and it ends up with us eventually making that one bad pass that allows teams to take advantage.

Totally agree, our movement off the ball is very poor, especially the midfield. Xavi is a great passer but still needs people constantly moving into space to create room for a pass to either them or making space for an opponent to run into. Sergio is bound to see this.

[jamboinglasgow]

Totally agree, our movement off the ball is very poor, especially the midfield. Xavi is a great passer but still needs people constantly moving into space to create room for a pass to either them or making space for an opponent to run into. Sergio is bound to see this.

 

He has already talked about it being a problem which needs fixed.

[Coco]

I think the other SPL managers will be delighted if we stick with a plan which has the back 4 passing the ball amongst themselves for 10 passes.

 

It doesn't hurt them and has a high probability of a poor pass or bad touch leaving us wide open to counter attack.

[heartsfanno1]

I have no problem passing it about more but further up the field where we can hurt teams. Just now were passing the ball at the back with no options ahead and then punting it up anyway so whats the point. Get the ball into midfield and we will create things.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

I think the other SPL managers will be delighted if we stick with a plan which has the back 4 passing the ball amongst themselves for 10 passes.

 

It doesn't hurt them and has a high probability of a poor pass or bad touch leaving us wide open to counter attack.

We need a midfielder who will drop off and take posession, look for a pass then get it back if nothing is on. Basically dictate the tempo. Barry Ferguson or Charlie Adam mould.

[Coco]

We need a midfielder who will drop off and take posession, look for a pass then get it back if nothing is on. Basically dictate the tempo. Barry Ferguson or Charlie Adam mould.

 

Yes, a Stevie Fulton is indispensible for this sort of game.

 

We don't have a player like that and they are not easy to find. Eremenko did it very well for Kilmarnock last year. We got the players who looked good playing off him instead.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Yes, a Stevie Fulton is indispensible for this sort of game.

 

We don't have a player like that and they are not easy to find. Eremenko did it very well for Kilmarnock last year. We got the players who looked good playing off him instead.

Would be delighted with Eremenko but can't see it. Could Taouil be coached to do it? Who knows? If not I'm sure a player like that will be Paolo's No1 target.

[Ryan Gosling]

Mr Sergio knows we need central players who can take the ball, or even look for a pass.

[Alan_R]

I don't think so. I think its our players inability to be able to play these tactics at present.

 

Instead of attacking, passing and moving like they should. At the moment the only way they seem to be sticking with the obvious instructions from PS to play a passing game means they are stuck motionless in their own half playing 'safe passes'.

[hearts_crazy]

gay tactic....oh please.

 

keeping possession is NOT tippy tappy football.

 

its a thoughtful approach to exploiting a team rather than hopefully (hopelessly) hoofing it up the park.

 

It also keeps possession until the ball can hopefully be used more effectively - unless the opposition makes you makes a mistake.

 

Keeping possession forces the opposition into moving and committing to get the ball - offering you space to exploit and attack.

 

Thats the idea. Unfortunately we are neither used to it, or very good at it just now.

give it time.

 

Ok, i'm down with that, but I couldn't help thinking on Sunday (and on Thursday when we were caught out on more than one occasion), that if we do the same thing against Spurs, especially with the bit in bold still being a true fact, we will get utterly humiliated home and away.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Ok, i'm down with that, but I couldn't help thinking on Sunday (and on Thursday when we were caught out on more than one occasion), that if we do the same thing against Spurs, especially with the bit in bold still being a true fact, we will get utterly humiliated home and away.

 

 

Yep - however I'm at a loss as to what we can do to not get humiliated.

 

I think its entirely possible they style we play against Spurs will bear no resemblance to how we will play in the future - simply because of the change in quality. However PS may accept that we are expected to get beat and see a passing style through.

 

I'd put the Spurs game to one side.

 

I think its clear PS has asked for a totally different style of play and the players both on and off the ball are not used to it. They will need to adapt, and some may find they are just no good at it.

 

Paksi gave us space, and we used it, it complimented the passing game. But even then you could see some people were not happy on the ball for long...in the SPL they wouldn't get that sort of time and space.

 

But it is the best way to play attractive effective football... the opposition cant score without the ball, and we can only score when we have it. Hoofing it up the park makes every ball a 50/50.

 

This way is hopefully going to be good for us - but i think it will take more than time and practice...people will need to run to make space - anticipate, not react, and passing and first touches will need to be better.

 

Some players will not suit this style, and games might look poor as the side develops into it.

 

But if we can see it through, the outcome on the other side is worth it - i just hope PS gets time and has the patience to work with the players we have - cos it seems he will be starting from scratch. - and that amazes me that a footballer, who's career is based around football, who only has to practice at kicking a ball and gets paid thousands for it... can find it so difficult to adapt to.

[SRC HMFC]

The simple fact is that we optionally played with no genuine striker. I find that one bizarre.

[johnjl]

The simple fact is that we optionally played with no genuine striker. I find that one bizarre.

 

Not really bizarre. I would have preferred us to start with Sutton or Smith but it`s obvious he played Ryan because he scored two last Thursday.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Has anyone phoned the Ticket Office to ask if our tactics are too cautious ?

[SRC HMFC]

Not really bizarre. I would have preferred us to start with Sutton or Smith but it`s obvious he played Ryan because he scored two last Thursday.

 

Well it is quite bizarre, i am not having a dig at Stevenson because he gives his all no matter where he is told to play. But playing a defensive midfeilder upfront and having 2 or 3 fit strikers on the bench is a tad out of the ordinary

[Gregory House M.D.]

Well it is quite bizarre, i am not having a dig at Stevenson because he gives his all no matter where he is told to play. But playing a defensive midfeilder upfront and having 2 or 3 fit strikers on the bench is a tad out of the ordinary

Aye, good one.

[johnjl]

Well it is quite bizarre, i am not having a dig at Stevenson because he gives his all no matter where he is told to play. But playing a defensive midfeilder upfront and having 2 or 3 fit strikers on the bench is a tad out of the ordinary

 

this is bizarre ^

 

 

this isnae ^

[babertonjambo]

Has anyone phoned the Ticket Office to ask if our tactics are too cautious ?

 

I have just phoned and apparantly our midfielders don't have enough loyalty points to play the more expansive game just yet.

[CMc]

Here is my view.

 

I'm perfectly happy for us to play passing football. If we have any long term ambition I think we have to. We will never be Barcelona, but we need to be able to retain possession and move the ball accurately through a defense set up to stifle us. Otherwise we will have periods when direct football works for us, followed by periods when we are so predictable even the poorest teams in the league will be able to shut us down.

 

I don't expect us to go through a major readjustment like this without some growing pains. Any judgement based on games against Paksi or Motherwell, or any other game this month, is going to be totally pointless. We will be working towards this for some time.

 

Hopefully we will be seeing the benefits of this move around Christmas time. Sergio will need to find the players we have to fit the system he wants to play. We''l get there in the end and it will be worth it. As fans though, we'll have to be patient.

[I.J]

Launching the ball as hard and as fast as possible into the box has been a proven winning tactic by many of the great sides.

 

Hungary 1954.

Real Madrid 1960.

Brazil 1970.

Milan 1989.

Spain 2008.

 

Where would they be using such ridiculously outmoded concepts such as retaining possession, and keeping the ball on the ground?

 

This Sergio boy hasn't got a clue.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

It's a gay tactic but alas not new. It has already proven to fail in the SPL by John Hughes. It can be a decent enough tactic if you have skilfull players who are comfortable on the ball and who can pass well and make room for themselves to be available for a pass.

I don't see these atributes in many of our current players.

 

Sergio is not suited to our squad or our squad is not suited to Sergio IMO.

[SRC HMFC]

Aye, good one.

Not so much a good one, accurate one though

[johnjl]

It's a gay tactic but alas not new. It has already proven to fail in the SPL by John Hughes. It can be a decent enough tactic if you have skilfull players who are comfortable on the ball and who can pass well and make room for themselves to be available for a pass.

I don't see these atributes in many of our current players.

 

Sergio is not suited to our squad or our squad is not suited to Sergio IMO.

 

I'm no being argumentative but come on tae ****! John Hughes?

 

I agree a passing game may not suit the majority of our players but with one or two additions in key positions it could work.

[CMc]

It's a gay tactic but alas not new. It has already proven to fail in the SPL by John Hughes. It can be a decent enough tactic if you have skilfull players who are comfortable on the ball and who can pass well and make room for themselves to be available for a pass.

I don't see these atributes in many of our current players.

 

Sergio is not suited to our squad or our squad is not suited to Sergio IMO.

 

Is two league games not a bit early to reach this conclusion?

[Flimsy]

It's a gay tactic but alas not new. It has already proven to fail in the SPL by John Hughes. It can be a decent enough tactic if you have skilfull players who are comfortable on the ball and who can pass well and make room for themselves to be available for a pass.

I don't see these atributes in many of our current players.

 

Sergio is not suited to our squad or our squad is not suited to Sergio IMO.

I agree, it has been proven by good Hearts teams in the past that you can get the ball up the park quickly either on the deck or in the air and have success in Scotland. Slow possession football is also torture to watch IMO, fans get excited by what happens in the final third.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

I'm no being argumentative but come on tae ****! John Hughes?

 

I agree a passing game may not suit the majority of our players but with one or two additions in key positions it could work.

 

 

He had Falkirk making hundreds of passes but going nowhere, same with the Hobos.

 

 

Hope you are right about key additions. At least one good midfielder and centre half are a must.

 

Is two league games not a bit early to reach this conclusion?

 

 

Only time will tell

[speedbump]

I noticed this on Sunday and even against inferior opposition at home last Thursday. We seem to be doing a lot of passing the ball about in our own half, including a LOT of pass backs to the keeper. There was even a couple of times on Sunday when Kello passed the ball to Zal, who was being marked and whos only option was to pass it back to Kello. Is this a new gay tactic, or is it just that the players up front aren't making themselves available for the pass? It was doing my ******* head in TBH.

 

The other one that we have done a lot in the last couple of games is when defending corners we have nobody staying up top. I noticed a couple of times players not even marking an opponent, just standing around randomly in the box, if they aren't marking someone then why not get up to the centre circle and give us an out ball. On Sunday in particular Motherwell always left a couple of defenders back around the half way, this gives us 2 less players to mark and therefore 2 of our players basically have nothing to do, so why not get up the field, so that when we hoof the ball out it goes to one of our players and not to an opponent.

 

We need to stop being scared of teams and go for the ******* jugular IMO.

 

And we have the 1st clown to have a stroke cause it's not being punted forward!

[johnjl]

The passing football is gay talk is rank rotten patter btw.

[gowestjambo]

Passing with an end product, no one argue with.

 

Passing it sideways aimlessly is no use to anyone.

 

Passing the ball to retain possession is fine, but there has to be forward pass eventually. For this to happen people have to move - this seems foreign to our current team.

 

Passes for the sake of passes with an eventual lump up the park, defeats the purpose.

 

Most good passing teams have players with excellent close control, and vision to see a pass - I don't think our current players have either!

 

So I think I will just pass on this one...............

[gowestjambo]

And we have the 1st clown to have a stroke cause it's not being punted forward!

 

I read what Hearts Crazy said, I cannot find him mentioning anywhere he wants the ball punted forward .............

 

I dont think the gay passing is well put, but I also cannot understand 10 men back to defend a corner.

 

We were 4 - 0 up and had everyone back against a team with no threat!

[Turkishcap]

Excuse me as I aint had time to read all on this thread but with regards to the Spurs matches do we try to pass the way PS would like or in this case do we just roll up our sleeves and get stuck in and not let them settle?

[hearts_crazy]

And we have the 1st clown to have a stroke cause it's not being punted forward!

 

Did I say punt it forward? Must have been between the lines

 

Any objections to passing the ball in the direction of the opposition goal? On Sunday especially I lost count of the amount of pass backs. Kello to Zal back to Kello, back to Zal, to Mrowiec to Zal to Grainger to Zal back to Kello doesn't exactly stir the blood. Pardon me for wanting more for my hard earned cash.

[kissthebadge]

I read what Hearts Crazy said, I cannot find him mentioning anywhere he wants the ball punted forward .............

 

I dont think the gay passing is well put, but I also cannot understand 10 men back to defend a corner.

We were 4 - 0 up and had everyone back against a team with no threat!

 

Ah yes, yet we conceded a goal from a set piece, with everyone back, against a team with no threat.

[RoussetsShorts]

Our forwards are massive huddies, we play far too many midfielders and none of our Central players can pass wind.

 

5 in midfield with 2 CDM's against the shite in SPL makes painful viewing. Wine turns quicker than John Sutton. PLAY THE FECKING YOUTH!!

 

 

 

[modedit]

[Gregory House M.D.]

Not so much a good one, accurate one though

Inaccurate one. Ryan Stevenson isn't a DM.

[Gregory House M.D.]

[modedit]

Can we do this to all his posts?

[Jambo_ree]

I know what the OP means. I've no problem with building from the back, but there was a lot of times on Sunday where defenders and Kello were receiving the ball when marked. Zali can be a bomb scare at the best of times but having the ball at his feet a lot with an opposition forward in close proximity is a worry. We gave away the ball a lot from back to midfield trying to find a simple pass. I've also never seen a goalkeeper touch the ball as many times as Kello did. An accident waiting to happen methinks. We don't have skillful enough defenders for this to work and our midfield/fowards don't make the runs into space they would require.

 

An influx of Portugeezers before the transfer window shuts might be the thing to do

[IMA MAROON]

Tactics are not cautious but most of our football players cannot pass a football so it just looks that way.

 

Spurs will jump on every mistake (there'll be plenty of those) and we could be looking at an embarrassing scoreline.

[portobellojambo1]

There is nothing wrong at all with trying to retain possession of the football, however it has to used as means of drawing the opposition out of position, and you then need someone who can supply a quick forward pass to utilise any space you have created. At the moment (well if we are honest for a long time) we don't appear to have anyone who can lift their head in the middle of the park and see that killer pass (it also doesn't help when your potential outlets, Driver and Templeton appear (i) not to be up to speed yet (Driver) and (ii) looks to me as if he may be carrying an injury (Templeton).

 

However it has to be flexible, and it has to be a combination of this continental approach with a bit of the more British/Scottish style of aiming for the target man to bring others into play. If we are brutally honest the team functioned best when we played to our strengths last season, played the ball towards Kevin Kyle, he attracted defenders like flies, and others pick up either the knock downs from Kyle or panicked attempted clearances and in many instances the ball ended up in the back of the net.

 

It is unfortunate Kyle is out of the side at the moment, because it makes it more difficult to build such a flexible style in training, if the main component is missing.

 

We shouldn't be changing wholesale for the sake of it, because we don't have enough players of a sufficient level to start playing Barcelonaesque. Ian Black, Eggert Jonsson and Adrian Mrowiec quite simply are not Iniesta, Xavi and Messi, not even remotely close and never will be. There is nothing wrong with trying to change the way the team play, but any changes should also incorporate the team's strengths, not sweep them aside so that you end up in a worse situation rather than a better one. There are games where direct football will benefit us greatly, there are games where trying to draw out the opposition will benefit us. We went for the latter against Motherwell last weekend and it failed miserably, due to our player limitations.

[JamboAberdeen]

It's becoming funny.

 

After DU game people were demanding to stop hoofball tactics as no end product.

 

Then Paulo quickly introduced passing football in his 1st few days, in which every could see the difference at Paksi game.

 

Four days later, there was full cry of returning to JJ football.

 

How come people have such short memory?

 

Passing game can't happen overnight.

It requires proper passing and trapping skills, off-the-ball movement and mutual understanding between players who have never been told these basics in modern football in entire life.

 

As a club, and a footballing nation, we can't continue dinosaur tactics in the 21st century.

This is once-in-decade opportunity for us to modernise our football.

Give the guy time.