Hearts ought to appeal black red card

[kamac1]

just watched bbc highlights, black was late in going in for the tackle but appeared to clear keith lasley's legs. His reaction more than anything else got black sent off. For too long Lasley has laid it in, his gamesmanship is second to none, mind you he doesn't play with hearts.

Sergio should appeal the red card, one tv angle made the tackle look bad, but the second camera angle clearly showed that black tried his best to clear lasley's legs.

The tv commentator said words to the effect."oh it doesn't look nearly as bad from that angle". Will the sfa take action against Lasley for feigning injury and contributing in getting a fellow professional a red card? Perhaps they should after watching the tv evidence.

As for Sandy Clark's comments on bbc radio scotland he added to the hype regarding blackie, pity he couldn't add that black must be the most fouled player in scottish football, he is kicked off the park every other week, but then again he plays for hearts.

[fabienleclerq]

just watched bbc highlights, black was late in going in for the tackle but appeared to clear keith lasley's legs. His reaction more than anything else got black sent off. For too long Lasley has laid it in, his gamesmanship is second to none, mind you he doesn't play with hearts.

Sergio should appeal the red card, one tv angle made the tackle look bad, but the second camera angle clearly showed that black tried his best to clear lasley's legs.

The tv commentator said words to the effect."oh it doesn't look nearly as bad from that angle". Will the sfa take action against Lasley for feigning injury and contributing in getting a fellow professional a red card? Perhaps they should after watching the tv evidence.

As for Sandy Clark's comments on bbc radio scotland he added to the hype regarding blackie, pity he couldn't add that black must be the most fouled player in scottish football, he is kicked off the park every other week, but then again he plays for hearts.

Pointless appeal, Red was my first reaction to it and i cant see the sfa changing it.Is there that much hype about black?

Doubt he comes up in many conversations that dont involve a jambo.

[Romulus]

A sensible comment on Blackie?? Never!!

 

Well said.

[kamac1]

Pointless appeal, Red was my first reaction to it and i cant see the sfa changing it.Is there that much hype about black?

Doubt he comes up in many conversations that dont involve a jambo.

what about the jelavic incident and the one with ian murray at tynie last season

[amadjambo]

Black is despised by fans if most clubs in SPL. He gets pelters every time he touches ball at Ibrox for his tackle on Jelavic and then his tackle on Diouff which was a shocker too.

[MightyBritannia]

I'm glad we're doing this: it was never a red card.

[VargasDa]

Very harsh red card, his foot barely leaves the ground and his studs werent up. Lasley got the ball first, thats all.

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

I'm glad we're doing this: it was never a red card.

Are we though? The OP seems pretty hypothetical to me, but the title is set in stone. I'm confuzzled!

[Dr. Bapswent]

just watched bbc highlights, black was late in going in for the tackle but appeared to clear keith lasley's legs. His reaction more than anything else got black sent off. For too long Lasley has laid it in, his gamesmanship is second to none, mind you he doesn't play with hearts.

Sergio should appeal the red card, one tv angle made the tackle look bad, but the second camera angle clearly showed that black tried his best to clear lasley's legs.

The tv commentator said words to the effect."oh it doesn't look nearly as bad from that angle". Will the sfa take action against Lasley for feigning injury and contributing in getting a fellow professional a red card? Perhaps they should after watching the tv evidence.

As for Sandy Clark's comments on bbc radio scotland he added to the hype regarding blackie, pity he couldn't add that black must be the most fouled player in scottish football, he is kicked off the park every other week, but then again he plays for hearts.

 

 

Another thread from you about it being Lasleys fault.

 

Jeez.

 

Just accept it was a cynical and awful challenge from Black....

 

This 'they are out to get us' attitude is getting a bit embarrassing.

[Wolfstar]

First angle it is a blatent Red card, from the 2nd angle (the opposite of the refs view) it never looked near as bad. A 50/50 that black was 2nd too, I feel from full speed and the refs view it was a red card, so for that I think the decision should stand.

 

It is his first red for the club (I think), but could of been his 3rd/4th red card so we cant complain too much.

[heartsfc_fan]

My first reaction = red.

 

It may look slightly less ugly from a different angle, but unfortunately these kind of fouls aren't tolerated nowadays.

[TheBigO]

Another thread from you about it being Lasleys fault.

 

Jeez.

 

Just accept it was a cynical and awful challenge from Black....

 

This 'they are out to get us' attitude is getting a bit embarrassing.

 

What I'd say on the issue is that Lasley's foul (on Mrowiec?) which only got him a yellow was every bit as bad as Black's. I'd say both were yellows - meaty late challenges but genuine attempts for a loose ball. If not, both were reds. The ref got it wrong.

 

However, I'm not particularly furious at the ref. If you look at his angle, it probably looked like Blackie did him with his laft foot. He didn't at all, but it probably seemed that way. Lasley's reaction and that of the Well players added to the incident. Not unlike Eggy's red at Ibrox which was barely a yellow but Jelavic's theatrics plus the Rangers players' histrionics got him a red.

 

So I'm not massively blaming the ref, but these decisions do seem to go against us more often than not.

[Big Mitch]

LASLEY THREW HIS LEGS UNDER HIM!

[BobbyJenkins]

Nothing in that imo, yellow at most.

[redm]

Okay, I've watched it again and again and again and I'm genuinely struggling to see why on earth anyone is so convinced there was something cynical or vicious in that? What am I not seeing here? Looks a 50/50 ball, Lasley gets there first but only by a fraction of a second and you can see why Black thought he might be the first to make contact with the ball...as it was, he didn't...but only missed it by the skin of his teeth....

 

[TheBigO]

Okay, I've watched it again and again and again and I'm genuinely struggling to see why on earth anyone is so convinced there was something cynical or vicious in that? What am I not seeing here? Looks a 50/50 ball, Lasley gets there first but only by a fraction of a second and you can see why Black thought he might be the first to make contact with the ball...as it was, he didn't...but only missed it by the skin of his teeth....

 

 

Pretty much. As I say, it was very similar to Lasley's yellow card tackle. Carbon copy actually. Ref's angle plus Lasley's reaction did it.

[fabienleclerq]

Okay, I've watched it again and again and again and I'm genuinely struggling to see why on earth anyone is so convinced there was something cynical or vicious in that? What am I not seeing here? Looks a 50/50 ball, Lasley gets there first but only by a fraction of a second and you can see why Black thought he might be the first to make contact with the ball...as it was, he didn't...but only missed it by the skin of his teeth....

 

He went over the top with a straight leg, if he caught him it had the potential to do some damage.

It was a stupid way to challange and every time i watch it i think red card!So cant blame the ref this time.

[Gershwin]

Hope it's not successful. Would like see something different in midfield.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Okay, I've watched it again and again and again and I'm genuinely struggling to see why on earth anyone is so convinced there was something cynical or vicious in that? What am I not seeing here? Looks a 50/50 ball, Lasley gets there first but only by a fraction of a second and you can see why Black thought he might be the first to make contact with the ball...as it was, he didn't...but only missed it by the skin of his teeth....

 

 

 

Did you watch it with dissecting analytical eyes?

 

Or did you see what most people saw first time round, which was a rash, hard and potentially dangerous tackle.

 

I don't expect the ref to get a tape measure out and work out if he missed him by a few centimetres.

 

I expect the ref to make a judgement on whether the tackle was fair or if one player went in with the potentially to hurt the other.

 

In that case its pretty much a clear red card.

[redm]

Did you watch it with dissecting analytical eyes?

 

Or did you see what most people saw first time round, which was a rash, hard and potentially dangerous tackle.

 

I don't expect the ref to get a tape measure out and work out if he missed him by a few centimetres.

 

I expect the ref to make a judgement on whether the tackle was fair or if one player went in with the potentially to hurt the other.

 

In that case its pretty much a clear red card.

 

I went in wearing my very best cynical and objective eyes. I then pressed rewind and play around a zillion times.

 

And what I saw was a pair of players both going for a 50/50 ball and taking a gamble, one slid to ground faster than the other and as a result, got nearer the ball a smidgen of a second faster than the other. I saw a copycat tackle from that made by Lasley a short while earlier. Nobody got hurt, maybe a bit of a close shave there but a word with both players to calm it down and a yellow for Black (for being last) would have sufficed imo.

 

Difficult for the ref perhaps, but he hadn't found similar challenges quite so horrific a while earlier. Perhaps he'll see the error of his ways and overturn the red on appeal though. It wasn't a straight red card imo.

[makateer]

Can a mod change the title to this thread as it is a bit misleading?

 

Hearts have not announced that they are going to appeal the red card.

[Italian Jambo]

yellow never a red, can clearly see by the way black goes into the challenge he is trying to play the ball with inside of his foot, just lasley gets there first, never a red black gets too much abuse for my liking, good player!

[steven100]

Think the red card was harsh but Karma has finally caught up with him. Not worth appealing.

[Jambof3tornado]

Why is the misleading title still in place?

[N User]

He didn't mean it but it was still dangerous and worthy of a red card.

[Hilary Briss]

Listened to game on radio yesterday, where the tackle was described as shocking and a deserved red.

 

Didnt look a red to me, certainly wasnt anywhere near as bad as it was described on radio.

[BervieJambo]

Not a red in my eyes. A late challenge, so probably worthy of a booking. I also think Lasley should not have received his second yellow.

[andrew]

Another thread from you about it being Lasleys fault.

 

Jeez.

 

Just accept it was a cynical and awful challenge from Black....

 

This 'they are out to get us' attitude is getting a bit embarrassing.

 

Almost as embarrassing as your view on a 'cynical and awful challenge' that even the Motherwell manager didn't feel was a red.

[Groot]

Going off memory (and I'm getting on a bit now) but did Black's right foot even make contact with Lasley, from what I saw it appears Lasley go there first as his momentum took him forward which led to Black's body and trailing leg to go over Lasley

 

Looking at it first time it looked a stonewall red card which for me leaves the referee completely free of any blame, the issue is because the way Black went in and because his momentum took him over Lasley in could be construed as a dangerous and reckless challenge all the same which means any appeal would not be worthwhile

[Jambof3tornado]

Dangerous tackle. Frivolous to appeal!

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Red card every day of the week.

 

We are starting to get as paranoid as Celtic fans.

[bighusref]

I appreciate this is going to sound mental, but I am still going to say it.

 

I think it was a clear red card but I am not sure it was more than a yellow card offence. For me, the first view was "straight red, ref". However after slowing it down and looking at it again, I am not sure if it was any more than a yellow. The speed made it look worse than it really was and, IMO, the ref had to send him off.

 

It's just unfortunate, these things happen in football. Referees do not have the benefit of slowing down an incident and watching it again. I for one can see how the ref made that decision.

 

Black is still shit though.

 

 

[Jezza]

The only way it would be receded if there was no possibility at all it was a sending off. This is a million times away from challenge.

 

An appeal would cost ?? which could be spent elsewhere and a failed appeal means extra match on suspension. Best to leave it, hopefully he learns his lesson and stops acting the prick and diving in.

[Jambothroughandthrough]

Look at Templeton's reaction at the top of the screen when Black makes that challenge. He knew what the outcome was going to be.

[Shaggy2]

Never thought it was red at the game and while it looks far worse on TV still don't. The fact he led with his right foot, which never connected, to block the pass puts him in the clear for me. If he had connected with his right then I can see everyone's point but I'd love someone to tell me where the funk he was supposed to put his trailing leg? Lasley's momentum caused the collision, Black didn't even go to ground and Lasley was sliding on a wet pitch.

 

Having watched Lasley's "tackle" on Mrowiec which was much more calculated and dangerous he was lucky to be on the park at that stage anyway.

 

I'm so glad that horrible little fecker got his just desserts near the end, about an hour overdue!

 

Also think Craigan's challenge on Stevenson in the box deserves mention. Did he make contact with ball? No. Did he make contact with man? Yes. Is that not a penalty? It is in my book. Did anyone else at the game notice Craigan conversing with Stevenson and the ref right after the incident? Obviously I have no idea what was said but Craigan seemed to extend his hand in apology to both in the knowledge he'd "got away with one" there.

[Shaggy2]

Look at Templeton's reaction at the top of the screen when Black makes that challenge. He knew what the outcome was going to be.

Crikey, Templeton reacted to something yesterday???

[Jezza]

Crikey, Templeton reacted to something yesterday???

 

 

Look at Blacks reaction when shown the red. Any arguments or was Blackie being the complete professional and didn't want to approach the ref?

[TheBigO]

Never thought it was red at the game and while it looks far worse on TV still don't. The fact he led with his right foot, which never connected, to block the pass puts him in the clear for me. If he had connected with his right then I can see everyone's point but I'd love someone to tell me where the funk he was supposed to put his trailing leg? Lasley's momentum caused the collision, Black didn't even go to ground and Lasley was sliding on a wet pitch.

 

Having watched Lasley's "tackle" on Mrowiec which was much more calculated and dangerous he was lucky to be on the park at that stage anyway.

 

I'm so glad that horrible little fecker got his just desserts near the end, about an hour overdue!

 

Also think Craigan's challenge on Stevenson in the box deserves mention. Did he make contact with ball? No. Did he make contact with man? Yes. Is that not a penalty? It is in my book. Did anyone else at the game notice Craigan conversing with Stevenson and the ref right after the incident? Obviously I have no idea what was said but Craigan seemed to extend his hand in apology to both in the knowledge he'd "got away with one" there.

 

Yeh, looked a penalty to me. You always have to ask the question, "would that have been a foul outside the box?" The answer is yes. The ref would have given a foul for that on the halfway line. It doesn't matter how minor the offence is, the fact is if it's a foul, it's a penalty.

[skene11]

The fact that he didn't catch Lasley is completely irrelevant, you just can't bring your foot down towards a player like that nowadays. Simple. It was high and reckless, nowhere near the ball.

 

I would have sent him off.

[Shaggy2]

Look at Blacks reaction when shown the red. Any arguments or was Blackie being the complete professional and didn't want to approach the ref?

Sportscene did not show the complete aftermath of that incident. To say Black accepted that decision so it must be right is complete bollox. The Motherwell players' reaction was disgraceful and it looked Lasley's career was over before sprinting back onto the pitch. Blackie could've been forgiven for getting showered and heading to the hospital to see how Lasley was, only to find he'd made the most miraculous recovery so far this season. Obviously highlights haven't shown all this. Maybe it's time Hearts started surrounding the ref after such incidents then the aftermath of Lasley's first tackle might have been different?

[TheBigO]

The fact that he didn't catch Lasley is completely irrelevant, you just can't bring your foot down towards a player like that nowadays. Simple. It was high and reckless, nowhere near the ball.

 

I would have sent him off.

 

I don't think anyone is blaming the ref for sending him off. I think lots of people on seeing it on TV can see that it's a genuine attempt at the ball, he isn't showing studs or stamping into it and he goes with only one leg. If anything he pulls his left leg back as far as he can to make it as danger-free as possible. I'm not blaming Black or the ref here.

 

I think the other issue which is possibly the most important issue here is that Lasley's challenge on Mrowiec was as bad or possibly worse than Black's but wasn't met with a red. I truly think the ref's angle on each incident is key, but I'd hate to think personnel or player reaction swayed him. They were both deserving of the same punishment - I think yellow.

 

FWIW, for me, Black's discipline problem extends further than wreckless challenges anyway. What concerns me more than the odd silly tackle is the niggly bullshit he gets embroiled in. It totally puts him off his game. Also, from a footballing perspective, he loses discipline in that he doesn't do the job he's meant to - get on the ball and keep it moving. When he does this (1st half v Rangers, for example) he's a very good player.

[Shaggy2]

The fact that he didn't catch Lasley is completely irrelevant, you just can't bring your foot down towards a player like that nowadays. Simple. It was high and reckless, nowhere near the ball.

 

I would have sent him off.

Like what? I don't see any downward momentum with the leading foot or the foot that connected with Lasley. Black's right foot is open to make a pass. Lasley has slid between Black's legs and contact was inevitable. Nothing like what you're saying, no studs are involved. Mind you, if Black had been a fraction of a second earlier or later then he'd have taken a right sore one on the instep of his right foot considering Lasley was sliding out of control on a wet pitch. Never mind though, he played the ball so that would've been ok?

[Gods a Jambo]

He went over the top with a straight leg, if he caught him it had the potential to do some damage.

It was a stupid way to challange and every time i watch it i think red card!So cant blame the ref this time.

 

 

Sorry, but if you saw that, get your eyes tested. Go on the bbc Highlights and pause it at 2.44m, you can clearly see that black has opened up his body to side foot the ball, not once does he go in with a straight leg. People saying this pish need to give it a rest.

[Shaggy2]

Sorry, but if you saw that, get your eyes tested. Go on the bbc Highlights and pause it at 2.44m, you can clearly see that black has opened up his body to side foot the ball, not once does he go in with a straight leg. People saying this pish need to give it a rest.

Absolutely right.

 

I'm all for honest fans (I thought Hamill was very lucky to stay on park, even if another Hearts player was close by) but I'm also all for defending our own when they've been hard done to.

[Gods a Jambo]

Absolutely right.

 

I'm all for honest fans (I thought Hamill was very lucky to stay on park, even if another Hearts player was close by) but I'm also all for defending our own when they've been hard done to.

 

 

I agree, I reserved judgement until I had looked at it myself, and whislt I appreciate peopel will always have a different take on the same incident, the evidence is there for all to see. At no time did he lunge or go in with a straight leg, Lasley went in with a straight leg. I just feel a few are more than happy to join in with the media and rip our own players. If Black did lunge in a deserved to go, I would be raging with him for letting the side down, but the fact is he never. Lasley got a knock in the ribs, yet held his knee! It was this that helped make up the refs mind, I fully understand why, in full speed, the ref gave a red, but upon reflection, its never a red.

[Sheiky Baby]

I agree, I reserved judgement until I had looked at it myself, and whislt I appreciate peopel will always have a different take on the same incident, the evidence is there for all to see. At no time did he lunge or go in with a straight leg, Lasley went in with a straight leg. I just feel a few are more than happy to join in with the media and rip our own players. If Black did lunge in a deserved to go, I would be raging with him for letting the side down, but the fact is he never. Lasley got a knock in the ribs, yet held his knee! It was this that helped make up the refs mind, I fully understand why, in full speed, the ref gave a red, but upon reflection, its never a red.

Pretty much exactly how it was. If the appeal isn't successful it just shows yet again the GFA aren't fit for purpose

[Gods a Jambo]

Pretty much exactly how it was. If the appeal isn't successful it just shows yet again the GFA aren't fit for purpose

 

 

If we lose the appeal, I would be very disappointed, as its never a straight red.

[h-e-a-r-t-s]

If we lose the appeal, I would be very disappointed, as its never a straight red.

 

no worse than the earlier tackle on Mrowiec. Could easily have been red & yellow the other way around IMO.

[skene11]

Like what? I don't see any downward momentum with the leading foot or the foot that connected with Lasley. Black's right foot is open to make a pass. Lasley has slid between Black's legs and contact was inevitable. Nothing like what you're saying, no studs are involved. Mind you, if Black had been a fraction of a second earlier or later then he'd have taken a right sore one on the instep of his right foot considering Lasley was sliding out of control on a wet pitch. Never mind though, he played the ball so that would've been ok?

 

Black's right leg goes over the top of Lasley, and stamps down on the ground (there's the downward momentum). If he had made contact with Lasley with that leg nobody on here would be disputing this decision. It was a lunge and it was over the top. The fact that he doesn't catch Lasley is irrelevant, as I have pointed out before.

[Gods a Jambo]

Black's right leg goes over the top of Lasley, and stamps down on the ground (there's the downward momentum). If he had made contact with Lasley with that leg nobody on here would be disputing this decision. It was a lunge and it was over the top. The fact that he doesn't catch Lasley is irrelevant, as I have pointed out before.

 

 

Seriously, It wasnt a lunge, he tried to sidefoot the ball, Look at the video again and pause it at 2.44, to call it a lunge is just total nonsense. Lasleys sliding under him cause's his leg to raise and gravity, being the way it is, his leg must come back down, nowhere near Lasley's leg. Your seeing what you want to see, as at no point, did any of what you say happen.