Do we need two "holding mids"

[mattyw_1874]

All this talk about our midfield has got me thinking about our squad.

 

If you say Hearts play a 4-2-3-1 then i really dont see a problem with what we have atm

 

Back four and keeper pick themselves

 

Taouil Black/Mrowic/Eggy etc.

 

2 t's Rudi (if he signs) Temps

 

Sutton

 

Personally i feel having Taouil dropping deep and spreading the ball to the danger men could be a very effective way for us to play next season.

[P-Dizzle]

I think that's the role we'll use him in as well, maybe shifted out wide if we go 4-4-2 in a game, but I suspect Jefferies has brought him in to do the creative job Black should be doing right now.

 

He's good on the ball and can pass, having him take the ball off our defense and running with it should play right into our hands with the attacking players like Templeton and hopefully Driver. We just need that player in the middle to pass into the space our wide players should be running into.

[Guest]

I think that's the role we'll use him in as well, maybe shifted out wide if we go 4-4-2 in a game, but I suspect Jefferies has brought him in to do the creative job Black should be doing right now.

 

He's good on the ball and can pass, having him take the ball off our defense and running with it should play right into our hands with the attacking players like Templeton and hopefully Driver. We just need that player in the middle to pass into the space our wide players should be running into.

Just crying out for someone who can chill in midfield,pick out his man with cutting passes and gets forward to either recieve the ball back or just do it all himself and score loads of goals,not asking too much am i?

[Feeno]

wee blackie is more creative than people give him credit for.

[rossthejambo]

wee blackie is more creative than people give him credit for.

 

He may well be creative but actually putting his creativity into action by passing the ball to team-mates isn't always his strong point and it's what we've been crying out for in the middle of the park since Bruno and Kari left.

[Mr Brightside]

If we play with 2 wingers and 2 forwards or 1 forward and 3 attacking midfielders then we need 2 defensive midfielder to balance the team out.

 

THe other option would be a 442 with 1 winger, 1 attcking central midfielder, 1 defensive central midfielder and 1 wide midfielder. Think Burleys midfield of Sckael Hartley Brellier Cammazola.

[Feeno]

He may well be creative but actually putting his creativity into action by passing the ball to team-mates isn't always his strong point and it's what we've been crying out for in the middle of the park since Bruno and Kari left.

 

 

the lad knows how to keep the ball moving, a wee pass here and there, brilliant at making a wee yard for himself. im not saying he's bruno he probably isnt even Kari, but not as bad as he's made out to be.

 

How good would our team be with those two in it?

[rossthejambo]

the lad knows how to keep the ball moving, a wee pass here and there, brilliant at making a wee yard for himself. im not saying he's bruno he probably isnt even Kari, but not as bad as he's made out to be.

 

How good would our team be with those two in it?

 

I think Black's got a tendency to pass the ball to someone who is in no position to receive a pass a little too often. I just don't rate him all that highly and think that we need to get better in the middle of the park if we're to progress.

 

There's no probably about it, Kari's been missed in the middle of the park big style since he left. Wouldn't need 2 holding midfielders with him in there

[mahgrassyshoes]

I think Black's got a tendency to pass the ball to someone who is in no position to receive a pass a little too often. I just don't rate him all that highly and think that we need to get better in the middle of the park if we're to progress.

 

There's no probably about it, Kari's been missed in the middle of the park big style since he left. Wouldn't need 2 holding midfielders with him in there

 

 

I'm the same, but atm i think he's the best we have for the position. I'm not sure about Taouil for that position. , I've only really seen him against us and East Fife, but he stirkes me as the type who wants to get the ball and drive forward and take on his man. The only chance i've seen to judge him on this was against East Fife, but he doesn't seem to notice players runs. Eliott made a cracking run timed it perfectly to beat the offside trap and rather than dinking the ball in behind for him to run onto, Taouil tried to beat his man and cut inside.

[TheBigO]

wee blackie is more creative than people give him credit for.

 

Aye. "I found it in the bogs." Pretty creative.

 

Blackie can play the way we need a player to in there. He can take the ball in, find a man, keep it simple, retain possession, look for it back, keep it moving, speed up the play, slow it down. He can. He has the ability.

 

Fact is he rarely actually does this. He spends more time on vendettas and puffing his chest out. He isn't a team player - he plays for himself.

 

What I'll say is that he hasn't had a partner in midfield too often who he can play football with but that shouldn't stop him taking the ball from our fullbacks and centre halves and looking to set the pace of our play, which I see as his main job.

[Feeno]

Aye. "I found it in the bogs." Pretty creative.

 

Blackie can play the way we need a player to in there. He can take the ball in, find a man, keep it simple, retain possession, look for it back, keep it moving, speed up the play, slow it down. He can. He has the ability.

 

Fact is he rarely actually does this. He spends more time on vendettas and puffing his chest out. He isn't a team player - he plays for himself.

 

What I'll say is that he hasn't had a partner in midfield too often who he can play football with but that shouldn't stop him taking the ball from our fullbacks and centre halves and looking to set the pace of our play, which I see as his main job.

 

 

I thought so!

 

I think he does do what you say re being a wee welt but not all the time, its quite clear you dont like the boy. My assumption of his role in the team is to help break up play, with the midfield destroyer in this instance probably Mrowiec and then get the ball out to the wings or onto the central creative midfielder, rudi or taouil, and support from deep where he can, but never neglecting the defensive side of his game. From experience in watching teams who play this formation at the higher end of the spectrum. This particular player is the one that gets hated on most by their fans, dont know why, maybe some just dont appreciate what he's bein asked to do. Im not comparing him as a player to these players but the ire they get from their own fans is very similar. Lucas, Carrick, Denilson, all play that same role in the formation all get it stinking from sections of their fans.

[jambo-rocker]

The 4-2-3-1 works primarily well in this day and age for the simple fact that out and out wingers like templeton don't have to backtrack as often as we are well covered by the two holding players. It's also helpful as it allows the fullbacks like wallace and hamill to get forward more often as well. That way we have someone to drop off back into the defence to have at least 3 covering(one defmid and the two centre backs), while still having one player sitting in front. This helps make it more difficult for teams to hit us on the counter attack. This was how spain worked teams throughout the world cup and barely conceded any goals in doing so.

 

Of course they worked it better because they had two of arguably the best defmids in the world not to mention their forward line that was always pressing forward. This is where having the option of someone like steve elliot comes in handy in the same manner kuyt was used for holland also for as they both have that similar role of running all the time pressing and chipping in with a few goals. Having sutton or kyle(and imo nobody else atm) would then be worked to maintain having the opposition defender a hard time and holding the ball up to bring the forward three and possible full back into play.

 

I do agree that having someone like taouil deeper would benefit us as I think he a much better technical level of skill to play simple passes about, while being able to utilize rudi in the free role as he would get more service and then we would be able to accomodate two skillful midfielders in the centre of the park. For the other defmid, I would have someone that has experience at centre back for being able to drop back into the middle of the back three for reasons just mentioned previous. Someone like mrowiec did this role superbly when we were on the run of 11 games. Although I wouldn't mind seeing jonsson or mcgowan in there has they both could fit the bill imo.

 

So yes, I do think that 4-2-3-1 is the way to go, and I get the feeling we'll see more of this formation and even evolutions of it over the next few years. We have a good enough squad short of another quality defmid capable of playing this formation and I believe we should continue to stick with it this season.

[Feeno]

The 4-2-3-1 works primarily well in this day and age for the simple fact that out and out wingers like templeton don't have to backtrack as often as we are well covered by the two holding players. It's also helpful as it allows the fullbacks like wallace and hamill to get forward more often as well. That way we have someone to drop off back into the defence to have at least 3 covering(one defmid and the two centre backs), while still having one player sitting in front. This helps make it more difficult for teams to hit us on the counter attack. This was how spain worked teams throughout the world cup and barely conceded any goals in doing so.

 

Of course they worked it better because they had two of arguably the best defmids in the world not to mention their forward line that was always pressing forward. This is where having the option of someone like steve elliot comes in handy in the same manner kuyt was used for holland also for as they both have that similar role of running all the time pressing and chipping in with a few goals. Having sutton or kyle(and imo nobody else atm) would then be worked to maintain having the opposition defender a hard time and holding the ball up to bring the forward three and possible full back into play.

 

I do agree that having someone like taouil deeper would benefit us as I think he a much better technical level of skill to play simple passes about, while being able to utilize rudi in the free role as he would get more service and then we would be able to accomodate two skillful midfielders in the centre of the park. For the other defmid, I would have someone that has experience at centre back for being able to drop back into the middle of the back three for reasons just mentioned previous. Someone like mrowiec did this role superbly when we were on the run of 11 games. Although I wouldn't mind seeing jonsson or mcgowan in there has they both could fit the bill imo.

 

So yes, I do think that 4-2-3-1 is the way to go, and I get the feeling we'll see more of this formation and even evolutions of it over the next few years. We have a good enough squad short of another quality defmid capable of playing this formation and I believe we should continue to stick with it this season.

 

This fellie here know his shit.

[Swanny17]

Horses for courses IMO.

 

When we're at home, we should be playing 4-4-2, particularly against the so-called smaller teams.

 

Play 4-4-2 Away from home too, but use the 4-2-3-1 formation depending on who we are up against.

 

This management lark is piss easy eh?

 

[CMc]

I thought so!

 

I think he does do what you say re being a wee welt but not all the time, its quite clear you dont like the boy. My assumption of his role in the team is to help break up play, with the midfield destroyer in this instance probably Mrowiec and then get the ball out to the wings or onto the central creative midfielder, rudi or taouil, and support from deep where he can, but never neglecting the defensive side of his game. From experience in watching teams who play this formation at the higher end of the spectrum. This particular player is the one that gets hated on most by their fans, dont know why, maybe some just dont appreciate what he's bein asked to do. Im not comparing him as a player to these players but the ire they get from their own fans is very similar. Lucas, Carrick, Denilson, all play that same role in the formation all get it stinking from sections of their fans.

 

I'm hoping Black can play the role you are talking about, although comparisons to Michael Carrick are stretching things too far.

I think what the problem we have had with Black is that his role has not been clearly defined. I personally would not want to see him playing alongside Mroweic unless we are playing against the old firm and need two players exclusively breaking up play and marking midfield runners. I say this because I feel that Black would be best used in our current squad as an out and out holding player. When he plays with Mroweic the temptation is for him to get forward more and try to be a bit more creative. Whilst he can do this to an extent, I think we have brought in Taouil to do this job, and I would rather see a midfield along the lines of Black/Taouil/Skacel. Black is a decent player. He gets the ball down well, has a nice first touch and has a decent short passing game. He also has a good jump on him and enjoys getting stuck in. I feel his longer passing, "vision" and shooting are the parts of his game that are not quite as strong. This makes him a much better choice for a Brellier type role than the Bruno role that he seems to want to play - especially if he has a more defensive midfield partner.

 

The only problem I can see with playing Black as the out and out defensive midfielder is that we were rone to getting over-run in midfield in the second half of last season. I would love to see us playing the Burley formation with Black at the base, Rudi in behind the strikers one of our wingers and Taouil as the narrow midfielder on the other side. I'm not sure we can pull it off with our current personnel though. I guess dropping Elliott deeper when we lose the ball to make a midfield five would help. It's a ll going to come down to how much defensive work Rudi and Tauoil can do. If Rudi can contribute something in defence and Taouil can do a fair bit then we might be able to play them together. If not then I think we will be back to the template of Balck and Mroweic holding the fort but stifling our creativity.

[Feeno]

I'm hoping Black can play the role you are talking about, although comparisons to Michael Carrick are stretching things too far.

I think what the problem we have had with Black is that his role has not been clearly defined. I personally would not want to see him playing alongside Mroweic unless we are playing against the old firm and need two players exclusively breaking up play and marking midfield runners. I say this because I feel that Black would be best used in our current squad as an out and out holding player. When he plays with Mroweic the temptation is for him to get forward more and try to be a bit more creative. Whilst he can do this to an extent, I think we have brought in Taouil to do this job, and I would rather see a midfield along the lines of Black/Taouil/Skacel. Black is a decent player. He gets the ball down well, has a nice first touch and has a decent short passing game. He also has a good jump on him and enjoys getting stuck in. I feel his longer passing, "vision" and shooting are the parts of his game that are not quite as strong. This makes him a much better choice for a Brellier type role than the Bruno role that he seems to want to play - especially if he has a more defensive midfield partner.

 

The only problem I can see with playing Black as the out and out defensive midfielder is that we were rone to getting over-run in midfield in the second half of last season. I would love to see us playing the Burley formation with Black at the base, Rudi in behind the strikers one of our wingers and Taouil as the narrow midfielder on the other side. I'm not sure we can pull it off with our current personnel though. I guess dropping Elliott deeper when we lose the ball to make a midfield five would help. It's a ll going to come down to how much defensive work Rudi and Tauoil can do. If Rudi can contribute something in defence and Taouil can do a fair bit then we might be able to play them together. If not then I think we will be back to the template of Balck and Mroweic holding the fort but stifling our creativity.

 

pretty sure i said I wasnt comparing them as players on a skill level merely the role/position in the team and the subsequent fury they get from their respective fans.

[TheBigO]

I thought so!

 

I think he does do what you say re being a wee welt but not all the time, its quite clear you dont like the boy. My assumption of his role in the team is to help break up play, with the midfield destroyer in this instance probably Mrowiec and then get the ball out to the wings or onto the central creative midfielder, rudi or taouil, and support from deep where he can, but never neglecting the defensive side of his game. From experience in watching teams who play this formation at the higher end of the spectrum. This particular player is the one that gets hated on most by their fans, dont know why, maybe some just dont appreciate what he's bein asked to do. Im not comparing him as a player to these players but the ire they get from their own fans is very similar. Lucas, Carrick, Denilson, all play that same role in the formation all get it stinking from sections of their fans.

 

I love that player! I think he's the lynchpin. My problem with Black is that he seems to have everything in the locker to be able to do it for us. His form around Christmas last year was superb - the NYderby he was the best player on the park by a country mile.

 

I can't stand that he doesn't do his job a massive percentage of the time. He doesn't even look for the ball enough and that should be his main role - getting on the damn thing.

 

Someone like Adrian does his job to the best of his ability and I respect him for that - I don't think he's good enough for Hearts, but he does what he can. I guess that's the crux of the matter - I find it hard to respect Black cos I know he's just a wee blow-hole. All fur coat and nae knickers. Heehaw to back up his bravado.

 

Let's face it, when he starts running around trying to kick everything in sight and trying to play like Pele cos he's got a bee in his bonnet, it is to the detriment of our team. He does it far, far too often.

 

If he can calm down and concentrate on football, I'll love it and praise him to the hilt.

[Feeno]

I love that player! I think he's the lynchpin. My problem with Black is that he seems to have everything in the locker to be able to do it for us. His form around Christmas last year was superb - the NYderby he was the best player on the park by a country mile.

 

I can't stand that he doesn't do his job a massive percentage of the time. He doesn't even look for the ball enough and that should be his main role - getting on the damn thing.

 

Someone like Adrian does his job to the best of his ability and I respect him for that - I don't think he's good enough for Hearts, but he does what he can. I guess that's the crux of the matter - I find it hard to respect Black cos I know he's just a wee blow-hole. All fur coat and nae knickers. Heehaw to back up his bravado.

 

Let's face it, when he starts running around trying to kick everything in sight and trying to play like Pele cos he's got a bee in his bonnet, it is to the detriment of our team. He does it far, far too often.

 

If he can calm down and concentrate on football, I'll love it and praise him to the hilt.

 

I agree with you hopefully he can learn from the latest unsavoury incident and screw the nut. Cos if no wee Robbo and Denis will be snappin at his heels!

[Rudolf's Mate]

I'd love to have a look back at people's posts re Brellier and see what they are posting about Black? Some may argue different types of player however the fact is that Black gives far too many fouls away. Then there will be an argument that he's clever ad does it when needed but others will then rightly point out as did Brellier.

 

Black isn't fit to lace Le Judge's boots IMO.

[TheBigO]

I'd love to have a look back at people's posts re Brellier and see what they are posting about Black? Some may argue different types of player however the fact is that Black gives far too many fouls away. Then there will be an argument that he's clever ad does it when needed but others will then rightly point out as did Brellier.

 

Black isn't fit to lace Le Judge's boots IMO.

 

Wasn't a massive fan of Brellier's either if truth be known!

[Feeno]

I'd love to have a look back at people's posts re Brellier and see what they are posting about Black? Some may argue different types of player however the fact is that Black gives far too many fouls away. Then there will be an argument that he's clever ad does it when needed but others will then rightly point out as did Brellier.

 

Black isn't fit to lace Le Judge's boots IMO.

 

 

The thing with Brellier was he didnt start gettin yellow cards til we were about 5 games into that winning streak and the refs knew they could hit him up for it. Breillier was class a dfensive mid, helping out his full backs both sides just basically bein the man at destroying the opponents play. Limited in going forward and probably given more praise because basically anyone from the team at that time could do no wrong.

[CMc]

pretty sure i said I wasnt comparing them as players on a skill level merely the role/position in the team and the subsequent fury they get from their respective fans.

 

Carrick is a different type of player. He's not a holding midfielder - he's actually quite creative.

[N User]

We need two holding midfielders if Rudi plays.

 

Rudi is no longer a left winger and doesn't defend well enough to play in the centre of a 2 man midfield.

[Feeno]

Carrick is a different type of player. He's not a holding midfielder - he's actually quite creative.

 

come on pal how many times im a gonnae have to say im not comparing them as players?? the position in the formation and the role they play is similar, black isnt an out and out defensive mid, neither is Carrick. Its the deep lying ball player. Carrick is a wonderful passer of the long or shot terrific accuracy, very incisive. But he gets asked to sit deeper to help protect the back four. He can hurt with his passing I know all this never said he didnt.

 

Hopefully thats the last time i have to repeat myself

[wavydavy]

I'd love to have a look back at people's posts re Brellier and see what they are posting about Black? Some may argue different types of player however the fact is that Black gives far too many fouls away. Then there will be an argument that he's clever ad does it when needed but others will then rightly point out as did Brellier.

 

Black isn't fit to lace Le Judge's boots IMO.

 

 

I think Brellier was overrated and like Black gave away far to many fouls not a great deal between them footballing wise in my opinion.

[Guest NeilMorriseyIsAJambo]

The thing with Brellier was he didnt start gettin yellow cards til we were about 5 games into that winning streak and the refs knew they could hit him up for it. Breillier was class a dfensive mid, helping out his full backs both sides just basically bein the man at destroying the opponents play. Limited in going forward and probably given more praise because basically anyone from the team at that time could do no wrong.

 

 

First of all Brellier was one of the best players I have had the pleasure of seeing in a Hearts Jersey, even if it wasn't for aslong as I woul have hoped. The only defensive midfielder I have known to absolutely smash an opponent in the first 10 minutes of a game, get booked for it, then have every tackle afterwards timed to perfection for the rest of the game. Genius!!

 

And also no-one seems to be mentioning Jamie Hammill in these midfields? I can't see Black plaing for us for a while to be honest. The guy is a player with great potential but rather than play to the potential, he would rather play to the "numpty" part of himself. Drugs, fighting, horrendous tackles etc. I think the lad needs to grow up a bit before setting foot on the pitch again.

[fozzyfoster]

no , the only holding midfielder we ever needed was jullian brellier....

[Charlie-Brown]

I would play with ONLY one defensive or sitting midfielder, 2 attacking or creative midfielders, 2 wingers or wide-forwards and a main centre forward. basically a traditional 4-3-3

 

----DM---- (Mrowiec / Jonsson / Prychynenko / McGowan)

--CM--CM-- (Black / Skacel / Stevenson / Taouil / Robinson / Holt)

RW------LW (Templeton / Suso / Driver / Novikovas / Elliott)

----CF---- (Sutton / Kyle / G.Smith)

 

perhaps play 4-2-3-1 at Ibrox, Parkhead or other difficult away grounds with 2 defensive midfielders but at home and against bottom 6 teams I'd go more attacking and creative to unlock defences.

[mattyw_1874]

We need two holding midfielders if Rudi plays.

 

Rudi is no longer a left winger and doesn't defend well enough to play in the centre of a 2 man midfield.

I dont really see how.

 

If rudi plays off the lone striker its effectively a 4-4-1-1 if the wingers track back?

[hawaii]

Surely it's not to much of a stretch to think that a professional footballer who plays in centre midfield should be able to pass the ball and also tackle??

 

All this defensive midfielder rubbish is a cop out IMHO.

 

The only annoying thing about JJ as a manager is that he doesn't appear to be able to get the team to play more than one formation. It should be easy enough to get even thick Scottish pro's to play 2 formations - if Mixu can get Killie playing a totally new style in a couple of weeks then it's another cop out by the players when they start launching long diagonals into Kyle/Sutton when the Tynie crowd is getting restless.

[Feeno]

I dont really see how.

 

If rudi plays off the lone striker its effectively a 4-4-1-1 if the wingers track back?

 

 

thats pretty much why tho, so the wingers dont have to track back as much.

[TheBigO]

First of all Brellier was one of the best players I have had the pleasure of seeing in a Hearts Jersey, even if it wasn't for aslong as I woul have hoped. The only defensive midfielder I have known to absolutely smash an opponent in the first 10 minutes of a game, get booked for it, then have every tackle afterwards timed to perfection for the rest of the game. Genius!!

 

And also no-one seems to be mentioning Jamie Hammill in these midfields? I can't see Black plaing for us for a while to be honest. The guy is a player with great potential but rather than play to the potential, he would rather play to the "numpty" part of himself. Drugs, fighting, horrendous tackles etc. I think the lad needs to grow up a bit before setting foot on the pitch again.

 

Don't agree with you on Brellier. His bookings were more often than not for challenges that didn't need made nor did they "send a message". Wasn't a great player, but he did fit into our team which was more important. Had nowt against him, just thought he was overrated. What he did do well which neither Black nor Mrowiec do, is patrol. He covered the fullback positions very well and read the game reasonably well.

 

Agree with you on Hammil for midfield. Unfortunately I think he's gona be needed at RB. Neither Eggy nor Barr are steady enough for a fulltime role there (or anywhere it would appear!) so I think Hammil will play RB. Shame cos when he signed, I'd hoped he'd play midfield. He who shall not be named has put paid to that!

 

Agree 100% on Black. Shame, cos he's a decent player when he plays. That's the problem though: "when he plays".

 

Welcome aboard by the way

[mattyw_1874]

thats pretty much why tho, so the wingers dont have to track back as much.

Id rather sacrifice even one of them having to track back than watch our midfield create nothing anyway.

[TheBigO]

Not sure if been mentioned on the thread, but lets remember that we tend to try to play with quite attacking FBs. Lee or Grainger and Hammil will all like to get up and down the wing.

 

2 holding midfielders allow this. They can slot in. Quite often a fornation can look a lot more defensive on paper than it really is because of this.

 

I remember seeing Slavan Bilic (sp) on MOTD - he was a breath of fresh air btw compared with the usual tripe - a couple of seasons ago and he went into some depth about the importance of attacking fullbacks. It was his opinion that they're the most important role in modern football in that they can be the difference between mediocre and good or good and great.

 

Again, even to feed the ball to these players, your holding mids need to be more than brick walls. They need to be able to get on the ball and move it. They also need to have a good picture as it's important they can cover the gaps as and when needed rather than sit in the middle and just hit what comes near. I'm afraid we have the hit what comes near in Mrowiec and not much more. Maybe Obua can do it. Maybe Denis can. We'll have to wait and see. Not had anyone for this role since Kari imo. Larry had it in him when bothered and wasn't often played there anyway.

[Obua is a Hero]

Jeffries starting XI at Ibrox and probably for a while will be near enough what started on sunday , with the 4231 , Taouil and Skacel will chop and change in the position behind the striker but i feel they are both players for home games , Templeton will cement the LAM/LW whatever u want to call it and Elliott will play on teh right when fit , although stevo has been great IMO , Sutton will lead the line for now , need to wait and see WHEN KK is back . Its straight forward Taouil or Skacel can notplay CDM and it will be a straight choice between Black Mrowiec and Jonsson , Denis and Holt and Obua is a possibility if needed

[mattyw_1874]

Jeffries starting XI at Ibrox and probably for a while will be near enough what started on sunday , with the 4231 , Taouil and Skacel will chop and change in the position behind the striker but i feel they are both players for home games , Templeton will cement the LAM/LW whatever u want to call it and Elliott will play on teh right when fit , although stevo has been great IMO , Sutton will lead the line for now , need to wait and see WHEN KK is back . Its straight forward Taouil or Skacel can notplay CDM and it will be a straight choice between Black Mrowiec and Jonsson , Denis and Holt and Obua is a possibility if needed

I dont see why you need two CDM

 

A team off

 

Elliott Taoul Black Temps

Rudi

Sutton.

 

Why cant that work? Yes its attacking but we are Hearts. We are better than the other 9 teams and on our day as good as that pair.

[TheBigO]

I dont see why you need two CDM

 

A team off

 

Elliott Taoul Black Temps

Rudi

Sutton.

 

Why cant that work? Yes its attacking but we are Hearts. We are better than the other 9 teams and on our day as good as that pair.

 

No reason your middle 3 cant work. The problem is wide in that team, Temps and Elliott not strong enough off the ball imo to help such a "flairy" midfield. Driver would be better imo, or you play the likes of Stevo or TheBigO out wide but then you lose something going forward.

 

Other than that sitting midfielder role, we've got good options, which is great

[N User]

I dont see why you need two CDM

 

A team off

 

Elliott Taoul Black Temps

Rudi

Sutton.

 

Why cant that work? Yes its attacking but we are Hearts. We are better than the other 9 teams and on our day as good as that pair.

 

 

It's bloody obvious.

 

Elliot is a striker and his instinct is to attack. Yes he's energetic and a worker but he's not disciplined enough defensively to play right/ left mid.

The same pretty much goes for Taoul and Temps and Rudi.

 

You'd have Black on his own against 3/4 of Rangers midfield during many attacks and we would get overrun.

Similarly against smallers teams.

[rudi must stay]

All this talk about our midfield has got me thinking about our squad.

 

If you say Hearts play a 4-2-3-1 then i really dont see a problem with what we have atm

 

Back four and keeper pick themselves

 

Taouil Black/Mrowic/Eggy etc.

 

2 t's Rudi (if he signs) Temps

 

Sutton

 

Personally i feel having Taouil dropping deep and spreading the ball to the danger men could be a very effective way for us to play next season.

 

why not play a diamond with Taouil at the top and Black at the bottom, with Skacel and Templeton on the wings. It may leave us open but the defence is strong enough to cope IMO

[Obua is a Hero]

dont see a point in discussing it as jeffries will only ever play his 4231 as it worked for that spell last season

[Feeno]

why not play a diamond with Taouil at the top and Black at the bottom, with Skacel and Templeton on the wings. It may leave us open but the defence is strong enough to cope IMO

 

why would you actively want to leave us open??? its nonsense.

[rudi must stay]

why would you actively want to leave us open??? its nonsense.

 

it's nonsense if you don't have a good defence, but we do

[Feeno]

you watch how good they are when they get overrun and out numbered.

[rudi must stay]

you watch how good they are when they get overrun and out numbered.

 

it might sound daft, but we played a similar style at the beginning of the season. But due to us not having an attacking midfielder it didn't work, but we may go back to it now we've signed Taouil.

[mattyw_1874]

It's bloody obvious.

 

Elliot is a striker and his instinct is to attack. Yes he's energetic and a worker but he's not disciplined enough defensively to play right/ left mid.

The same pretty much goes for Taoul and Temps and Rudi.

 

You'd have Black on his own against 3/4 of Rangers midfield during many attacks and we would get overrun.

Similarly against smallers teams.

I will accept that against Rangers and other teams of a high standard yes. If Taoul is disciplined enough (I done know not seen enough of him) i dont see why its not an option at least against lesser sides.

 

In saying that, I have seen us go to Ibrox for years now to "not get over ran" has it work, has it feck. Id love us to go there and attack. Maybe we would get horsed maybe we would win. At the end nothing changes its been over 10 years since we won there anyway why not try sommit new.

[J Cheever Loophole]

No mate.We seem lacking in ideas and too slow to make the right pass,at the right time and another HM would just slow it down even more with the reduction in runners,options available when we have the ball,resulting in a series of, to the side and backward passes before the final punt up the park.

That's how i look at it.Mind you,I've just finished a lecture with Professor Budweiser.

[Guest NeilMorriseyIsAJambo]

Don't agree with you on Brellier. His bookings were more often than not for challenges that didn't need made nor did they "send a message". Wasn't a great player, but he did fit into our team which was more important. Had nowt against him, just thought he was overrated. What he did do well which neither Black nor Mrowiec do, is patrol. He covered the fullback positions very well and read the game reasonably well.

 

Agree with you on Hammil for midfield. Unfortunately I think he's gona be needed at RB. Neither Eggy nor Barr are steady enough for a fulltime role there (or anywhere it would appear!) so I think Hammil will play RB. Shame cos when he signed, I'd hoped he'd play midfield. He who shall not be named has put paid to that!

 

Agree 100% on Black. Shame, cos he's a decent player when he plays. That's the problem though: "when he plays".

 

Welcome aboard by the way

 

 

Cheers mate.

I reckon Barr should be given a decent chance to be honest. He is a good player, didn't start too well and then a young player (his name seems to have been erased from my mind lol) kind of made the position his own. But now with him gone Barr should be given a chance! and Eggy is reliable anywhere on the park.

[N User]

I will accept that against Rangers and other teams of a high standard yes. If Taoul is disciplined enough (I done know not seen enough of him) i dont see why its not an option at least against lesser sides.

 

In saying that, I have seen us go to Ibrox for years now to "not get over ran" has it work, has it feck. Id love us to go there and attack. Maybe we would get horsed maybe we would win. At the end nothing changes its been over 10 years since we won there anyway why not try sommit new.

 

 

These "lesser sides" set themselves out well.

 

Inverness played a great counter attacking game which would destroy us if we only played with 3 attacking midfielders in a 442.

Motherwell played some great stuff down the wings last season.

 

These teams can beat us on merit - We may have finished 3rd but we were not hugely superior to them.

[TheBigO]

Cheers mate.

I reckon Barr should be given a decent chance to be honest. He is a good player, didn't start too well and then a young player (his name seems to have been erased from my mind lol) kind of made the position his own. But now with him gone Barr should be given a chance! and Eggy is reliable anywhere on the park.

 

Apparently JJ flipped his lid at him at the weekend. Can't be trusted. I mean that in a footballing sense. Nice guy, good trainer, just not capable of doing it on the pitch. Doesn't have the ability or confidence to do what he's told - there's probably lots of stuff we don't even notice!

 

Be very surprised if we see much of him. Shame cos I was really happy we'd signed him at the time - always thought he looked good.