Groot Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Shaun, the various examples are not comparable in my opinion There is a big difference between kids playing near their homes etc and being abducted and being on holiday and leaving your kids asleep alone at night in an unlocked apartment One is a case where the only way it can be avoided is to lock up your kids 24/7 or accompany them everywhere, both of which would be impractical The other could be avoided by 3 simple solutions - 1. Use a babysitter 2. Stay in and look after your kids 3. If the most important thing about your holiday is going out with friends, FFS leave the kids with the grandparents I really don't see any other way to look at it to be honest, the McCanns fecked up and they thought the kids would be safe and they weren't and now they are having to live with it and that is something I wouldn't wish on anybody but they were negligent no argument, to compare them with the parents of Holly Wells etc is just wrong in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Shaun, the various examples are not comparable in my opinion There is a big difference between kids playing near their homes etc and being abducted and being on holiday and leaving your kids asleep alone at night in an unlocked apartment One is a case where the only way it can be avoided is to lock up your kids 24/7 or accompany them everywhere, both of which would be impractical The other could be avoided by 3 simple solutions - 1. Use a babysitter 2. Stay in and look after your kids 3. If the most important thing about your holiday is going out with friends, FFS leave the kids with the grandparents I really don't see any other way to look at it to be honest, the McCanns fecked up and they thought the kids would be safe and they weren't and now they are having to live with it and that is something I wouldn't wish on anybody but they were negligent no argument, to compare them with the parents of Holly Wells etc is just wrong in my book Why? The chances of anything happening to Holly, Jessica or Sarah were infitesimally small. The chances of anything happening to Madeleine were also infitesimally small. In all cases, the parents believed their children were and would be safe; in all cases, events proved otherwise. Your argument that there's somehow a clear difference between children playing out of sight near their parents' homes, and children left 100m out of sight in an apartment, baffles me to be honest. In the McCanns' case, a babysitter or creche facilities clearly would've been used had Kate and Gerry considered themselves not close by; but they were close by. Not close enough, though, to stop whatever happened to their daughter: something which they'll regret for the rest of their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why? The chances of anything happening to Holly, Jessica or Sarah were infitesimally small. The chances of anything happening to Madeleine were also infitesimally small. In all cases, the parents believed their children were and would be safe; in all cases, events proved otherwise. Your argument that there's somehow a clear difference between children playing out of sight near their parents' homes, and children left 100m out of sight in an apartment, baffles me to be honest. In the McCanns' case, a babysitter or creche facilities clearly would've been used had Kate and Gerry considered themselves not close by; but they were close by. Not close enough, though, to stop whatever happened to their daughter: something which they'll regret for the rest of their lives. Yes, the risks were infintessimaly small in all cases. However, the point is that the risk to Madeleine McCann (on the assumption the abduction is the true story) would have been eliminated had the parents not been so selfish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Benoit Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The other major difference is that Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman were nearly 11 and Sarah Payne 8 but with a sibling of 13, Madeline was 3 her siblings 1. What child at 3 years old knows how to react in an emergency? At least at 8 and 10 they would know to seek help even phone 999. The biggest difference between the cases is fairly simple, something tragic happened Holly, Jessica and Sarah while they were out playing, something tragic happened to Madeline while her parents were out playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The other major difference is that Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman were nearly 11 and Sarah Payne 8 but with a sibling of 13, Madeline was 3 her siblings 1. What child at 3 years old knows how to react in an emergency? At least at 8 and 10 they would know to seek help even phone 999. The biggest difference between the cases is fairly simple, something tragic happened Holly, Jessica and Sarah while they were out playing, something tragic happened to Madeline while her parents were out playing. In a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groot Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Shaun, it utterly baffles me how you cannot distinguish a difference between them being honest, anyway off to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynie b Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Shaun, it utterly baffles me how you cannot distinguish a difference between them being honest, anyway off to work I said in a previous post I thought he was an intellegeny guy...How ******* Wrong could I be Hopefully this clown never has the chance to breed, If he thinks the McCanns are good parents god help his kids (TBH can't see this happening unless he gets a jump at his Chain smoking French Au Pair ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Benoit Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Tynie absolutely no need for the personal insults. To be honest Shaun has never agreed or condoned with what the McCanns did only said it was something other parents did. Where I disagreed was with how common it was and for the record if Shaun was to have kids I'm certain the thought would never enter his head to leave them alone like that. Where I strongly disagreed was the comparisons to the Sarah Payne and Soham murders which bare no resemblance to the Madeline McCann case but I managed to put my case across without resorting to name calling which is something you might want to consider as it does nothing but hinder any point you're trying to put across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Tynie absolutely no need for the personal insults. To be honest Shaun has never agreed or condoned with what the McCanns did only said it was something other parents did. Where I disagreed was with how common it was and for the record if Shaun was to have kids I'm certain the thought would never enter his head to leave them alone like that. Where I strongly disagreed was the comparisons to the Sarah Payne and Soham murders which bare no resemblance to the Madeline McCann case but I managed to put my case across without resorting to name calling which is something you might want to consider as it does nothing but hinder any point you're trying to put across. Indeed you did. As for Tynie: personal attacks are all he knows, unfortunately. In light of this - something seen in his posts on a weekly, if not daily basis - would it be outrageously hypocritical of me and completely undermine my point to question his parenting skills; in particular, his ability to teach his children to be reasonable and empathetic towards others? It would? I won't, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynie b Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Indeed you did. As for Tynie: personal attacks are all he knows, unfortunately. In light of this - something seen in his posts on a weekly, if not daily basis - would it be outrageously hypocritical of me and completely undermine my point to question his parenting skills; in particular, his ability to teach his children to be reasonable and empathetic towards others? It would? I won't, then. I do try and teach my kids to be reasonable and empathetic. My daughter has her own veiws on the McCanns, she has sympathy for them for what has happened but has asked why they left the children alone. I couldn't really tell her, Maybe because they did it a lot and nothing had happened before, maybe they thought the drugs they'd given the kids to keep them asleep gave them a false sense of security, maybe there own enjoyment was more important than the childrens safety....As I've said I couldn't tell her, so didn't!! I have never left my children alone in the house or in a hotel room at any time for any time. My daughter walks to the school bus with her freinds my son is taken to and collected from nursery by his mother. I am not at my childerens side 24/7 but always know where they are and who they are with. The "personal attacks" were ment as a joke, re the Au Pair statement... I just can't see were you can compare the Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman or the Sarah Payne cases with the McCanns...These girls were doing things that girls do everyday, Walking home with freinds or playing with syblings. Maddie McCann was abondoned by two selfish A***holes who thought that going for drinks with freinds was more important than making sure their 3 young daughters were safe...As I have said, I do hope that the Police reinvestigate this case and charges are brought against the McCanns. I honestly don't get your constant deffence of the indefencable but this is the last I'll post on this. Cheers, Tynie b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I do try and teach my kids to be reasonable and empathetic. My daughter has her own veiws on the McCanns, she has sympathy for them for what has happened but has asked why they left the children alone. I couldn't really tell her, Maybe because they did it a lot and nothing had happened before, maybe they thought the drugs they'd given the kids to keep them asleep gave them a false sense of security, maybe there own enjoyment was more important than the childrens safety....As I've said I couldn't tell her, so didn't!! I have never left my children alone in the house or in a hotel room at any time for any time. My daughter walks to the school bus with her freinds my son is taken to and collected from nursery by his mother. I am not at my childerens side 24/7 but always know where they are and who they are with. The "personal attacks" were ment as a joke, re the Au Pair statement... I just can't see were you can compare the Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman or the Sarah Payne cases with the McCanns...These girls were doing things that girls do everyday, Walking home with freinds or playing with syblings. Maddie McCann was abondoned by two selfish A***holes who thought that going for drinks with freinds was more important than making sure their 3 young daughters were safe...As I have said, I do hope that the Police reinvestigate this case and charges are brought against the McCanns. I honestly don't get your constant deffence of the indefencable but this is the last I'll post on this. Cheers, Tynie b I genuinely think this is the most reasonable, constructive post you've ever written on here! First time for everything, it seems... Big for this, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Fatman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 As I have said, I do hope that the Police reinvestigate this case and charges are brought against the McCanns. Not that I defending their actions in the slightest, and also bearing in mind that the possible offence occurred hundreds of miles outside of the jurisdiction of any UK police force, but exactly what punishment would you give them that would come close to what they have gone through with the loss of their daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In a nutshell. The thing Chris captures in a nutshell is the reason why nearly everyone hates the McCanns . That's because they were seen to be "out playing" whilst their daughter disappeared. The point is they weren't there. It's inexcusable and no-one on here as far as I can see, is saying it's ok to leave 3 infants alone in a house. Commonplace at one time perhaps, but not recommended. The reason Sarah Payne came up is there's a good few people who want the McCanns to be officially held accountable. Culpability in this case is based on risk and it's sadly true that Sarah Payne's parents/grandparents, unwittingly no doubt, exposed her to a greater risk of abduction, so if further punishment is to be meted out to the McCanns, there'd be an embarrassing backlog of cases. I mentioned ealier I was trying to justify one thing. That the attacks and judgement on the couple have been unwarranted. There's one other thing though. The details of what may have happened have diverted from the original topic of whether the case should be re-investigated.. If you think along the lines of Tynie B, that the parents had a hand in events , then like him you'll welcome a new inquiry. Similarly, if you don't think the McCanns had anything to do with an abduction, whoever did is still at large, and will likely target another child. For this reason alone, I can't think why anyone would think it's a waste of time or money, to at least review this case with fresh eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Dragging up an old thread but just heard that the Potuguese police are reviewing the case, possibly leading to it being re-opened. BBC Story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT1959 Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Dragging up an old thread but just heard that the Potuguese police are reviewing the case, possibly leading to it being re-opened. BBC Story "Elements from the Scotland Yard have been working with an investigative [Judiciary Police] team from Oporto (Oporto because Algarve and Lisbon have already been involved), and what is known is that the ?affair? is not going well for the McCanns." Goncala Amaral statement from a day or so ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Kickback found them guilty, brought back the death penalty just for the occasion, and had them executed I think. As far as I can see, the 'evidence' against them amounts to the following: 1. No-one ever found Madeleine 2. No-one ever found the killer or abductor 3. Kate and Gerry are cool and unemotional in front of the cameras 4. Kate and Gerry seem remarkably good at gaining publicity for their cause Well big ******* deal. In the case of 1 and 2 - so no child has ever gone missing and not been found in history - and all crimes (especially as strange as this one) are always solved, are they? In the case of 4, good for them: their child went missing, they still don't know if she's dead or alive, and like any parent, they want heaven and earth moved in order to find her. And in the case of 3... "there's something not right about them"... "it's not how I'd react"... "questions should be asked"... How on earth do people know how they'd react if their child went missing in such circumstances? Has it happened to you? So how can you possibly pass judgement upon them? First, they're doctors, for whom clinincal detachment in emotional cases is something they'll have been trained in; second, some people react emotionally at times of trauma, others don't; and third, has no-one ever heard of the stiff upper lip? Meanwhile, the idea that two child murderers would demand the attention of the world media and even governments remained permanently on them - even to the point of getting it back on them four years on - is absolutely risible. The idea that two frantic parents who can't move on until they finally know what happened to their daughter would do everything in their power to find out isn't risible at all. Questions have been asked: loud ones, by the Portugese authorities and others. There was no case to answer. But in the absence of any conclusion to the mystery, not only do they still not know where their daughter is - but they've had to put up with a bunch of goons assuming they're the killers. It's monstrous. Why did Kate write the book? To raise funds for the campaign; the campaign to find where her daughter is. What a shocker. Shaun, this is far too considered and fair minded for here. As far as reviewing the case is concerned - this should have been done a long time ago. I'm afraid that reviewing it now is not going to help find the lassie - all it will do is highlite the litany of mistakes made by the Portugese authorities in the way they handled the entire enquiry. Losing a child is a hellish thing and stays with parents for the rest of their lives. Losing a child in the way the McCann's did is even worse because of the feeling that they must have that they in some way were neglectful and they must carry that particular cross with them for ever. Personally, I feel nothing but a great deal of pity for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmondo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Shaun, this is far too considered and fair minded for here. As far as reviewing the case is concerned - this should have been done a long time ago. I'm afraid that reviewing it now is not going to help find the lassie - all it will do is highlight the litany of mistakes made by the Portuguese authorities in the way they handled the entire enquiry. Losing a child is a hellish thing and stays with parents for the rest of their lives. Losing a child in the way the McCann's did is even worse because of the feeling that they must have that they in some way were neglectful and they must carry that particular cross with them for ever. Personally, I feel nothing but a great deal of pity for them. Feel absolutely gutted for the wee girl, as for the parents nothing but contempt They went jogging not soon after the alleged abduction, how cold is that ffs, they then went (both) on a tour, leaving there other children behind not one,the two of them, in such horrific circumstance you would think that would be the last thing on there mind As for the Portuguese police beyond comprehension, incompetence at its worst Still never seen a genuine tear from mummy, no, not one, yep cold and they no sympathy from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmondo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 This got me thinking The McCanns have never apologised for there selfish behaviour They never used the Kindergarten facilities They never took there Nanny on holiday with them Irresponsible or what when a night out takes priority Watched a bit of the Leverson enquiry Daddy sniveled that he faced 2yr in the jail if he spoke out ( maximum ) like that would put you off telling the truth, god forbid but I would sacrifice my liberty in that situation no ifs All most are looking for is the truth, read recently that this pair were about to take,prepared to take a lie detector test, went quiet, why They the McCanns are no shrinking violets to fighting there media corner, when it suits them that is Why dont they do a Q&A, no holds barred and put to bed any lingering doubts mm instead of trying to be so calculating and controlling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Ramsay Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 The McCanns have a really odd vibe to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Desmondo I reckon you've got McCann-related text saved on your desktop, ready for a cut and paste when these threads come along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmondo Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Desmondo I reckon you've got McCann-related text saved on your desktop, ready for a cut and paste when these threads come along I do get a tad carried away on this one and rightly so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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