Vlad - Progress Since the Take Over "An Open Letter"

[rudi]

Ukol, I think you have been sniffing paint. To say "Mr Romanov has saved Heart of Midlothian Football Club whether some of us like it or not." is akin to saying we were not an attractive proposition to anyone else. We were and still could be an attractive proposition if we start challenging for the league and getting in to Europe, on a REGULAR BASIS, not just now and then.

 

I appreciate that we don't have the fan base or the marketability of the Old Firm but start challenging them and start having regular income from Europe and before you know it Old Uncle Vlad will be touting us around footballclubsforsale.com

We were but I don't think or believe we are now,there was a consortium off business men(not McGrail)ready to talk but fortunately or unfortunately the bid from vlad was accepted before anyone could look into things,that is my understanding told to me by one of the men asked to invest(please don't ask me for his name,I said I wouldn't divulge that info on any social net working site because he still goes to the games).

 

Now the reason I said "I don't think we are now" is that these guys couldn't afford to buy out the debt and give money to spend on the squad,so that on a down side is not progress,we are now stuck with what we have got,like it or not.

 

We are still at Tynecastle,which is a good thing,really can't say that is progress because we can only speculate as to where we would have been now,but still a very +plus point.

 

Now financially looking at the figures then there is really no way there has been progression,our debt had doubled,but on the other hand at the moment we are more secure financially,which looks odd but there you go,so even Stevens on that one.

 

On the pitch,yes we have seen some wonderful players over the last 6 years,but we had also seen some wonderful player prior to Vlad taking over,so I don't see that as progress,certainly not in the youth set up,not too many coming out of the youths making a real name for themselves.

 

 

One way to see what kind of progress is to pick out your best 11 over the last 12 years,see how many were here before Mr Romanov.

 

You could certainly pick a worst 11 with a good majority being brought in over the last 6 years,I doubt anyone could argue with that,though some will no doubt.

[Mid Calder Jambo]

I've not been sniffing paint.

 

Vlad was our best option at the time and as far as I'm concerned he's delivered far more than any other option's we had at the time could have. So much so that before he came I genuinely feared for this football club's future. I'm not saying he's perfect because he isn't. But he did save us from a very slippery slope. If your not willing to accept that then you should think about staying off the meths for a few days.

 

Oh, and I don't know if you've ever been to Gelsinkirchen to take in a match but if not you should really think about it. It's a whole new ball game out there. :thumbsup:

 

I'm not really a meths person unless it comes with tonic and piece of lemon.

 

I am interested to know how you quantify "he's delivered far more than any other option's we had at the time could have" That is supposition although I acknowledge that we will never know.

 

I feared for our team at the time as well and I would agree that he is nowhere near perfect, none of us are. Maybe the slippery slope was what we needed at time. Do a Livingston and work our way back up but there again we would not have have the roller-coaster that the Vlad has given us. If we had done the slippery slope we might now be in the position where at least the owner and the team management might be singing off the same hymn sheet.

 

I still doesn't detract from my initial argument in the OP that we have not progressed since Vlad took over and measured against what he said at the time we have been a failure.

[Mid Calder Jambo]

We were but I don't think or believe we are now,there was a consortium off business men(not McGrail)ready to talk but fortunately or unfortunately the bid from vlad was accepted before anyone could look into things,that is my understanding told to me by one of the men asked to invest(please don't ask me for his name,I said I wouldn't divulge that info on any social net working site because he still goes to the games).

 

Now the reason I said "I don't think we are now" is that these guys couldn't afford to buy out the debt and give money to spend on the squad,so that on a down side is not progress,we are now stuck with what we have got,like it or not.

 

We are still at Tynecastle,which is a good thing,really can't say that is progress because we can only speculate as to where we would have been now,but still a very +plus point.

 

Now financially looking at the figures then there is really no way there has been progression,our debt had doubled,but on the other hand at the moment we are more secure financially,which looks odd but there you go,so even Stevens on that one.

 

On the pitch,yes we have seen some wonderful players over the last 6 years,but we had also seen some wonderful player prior to Vlad taking over,so I don't see that as progress,certainly not in the youth set up,not too many coming out of the youths making a real name for themselves.

 

One way to see what kind of progress is to pick out your best 11 over the last 12 years,see how many were here before Mr Romanov.

 

You could certainly pick a worst 11 with a good majority being brought in over the last 6 years,I doubt anyone could argue with that,though some will no doubt.

 

Now we are getting to the nitty gritty of the argument. I don't know if we are in a more secure financial position. Any business carrying the amount of debt that we do is limited in how it can grow the business and that includes strengthening the squad and redeveloping the stadium.

 

But again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record we have not fulfilled Vlad promises on the pitch regardless of how protected we are from the debt by Vlad.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Now we are getting to the nitty gritty of the argument. I don't know if we are in a more secure financial position. Any business carrying the amount of debt that we do is limited in how it can grow the business and that includes strengthening the squad and redeveloping the stadium.

 

But again, at the risk of sounding like a broken record we have not fulfilled Vlad promises on the pitch regardless of how protected we are from the debt by Vlad.

 

 

Oh FFS! Not the 'debt' argument again.

 

 

Bottom line - Rangers are an infinitely attractive more proposition than HMFC in Scottish football. They've just been sold for ?1! Now take that into context before asking for your "KPI's"....

[PTBCAL]

We were but I don't think or believe we are now,there was a consortium off business men(not McGrail)ready to talk but fortunately or unfortunately the bid from vlad was accepted before anyone could look into things,that is my understanding told to me by one of the men asked to invest(please don't ask me for his name,I said I wouldn't divulge that info on any social net working site because he still goes to the games).

 

Now the reason I said "I don't think we are now" is that these guys couldn't afford to buy out the debt and give money to spend on the squad,so that on a down side is not progress,we are now stuck with what we have got,like it or not.

 

We are still at Tynecastle,which is a good thing,really can't say that is progress because we can only speculate as to where we would have been now,but still a very +plus point.

 

Now financially looking at the figures then there is really no way there has been progression,our debt had doubled,but on the other hand at the moment we are more secure financially,which looks odd but there you go,so even Stevens on that one.

 

On the pitch,yes we have seen some wonderful players over the last 6 years,but we had also seen some wonderful player prior to Vlad taking over,so I don't see that as progress,certainly not in the youth set up,not too many coming out of the youths making a real name for themselves.

 

 

One way to see what kind of progress is to pick out your best 11 over the last 12 years,see how many were here before Mr Romanov.

 

You could certainly pick a worst 11 with a good majority being brought in over the last 6 years,I doubt anyone could argue with that,though some will no doubt.

 

Our debt will be less than it was when he arrived.

[Mid Calder Jambo]

Oh FFS! Not the 'debt' argument again.

 

 

Bottom line - Rangers are an infinitely attractive more proposition than HMFC in Scottish football. They've just been sold for ?1! Now take that into context before asking for your "KPI's"....

 

Sorry Geoff but the debt argument is a valid one in our case so there is no need to FFS it. There are some on this board that fail to acknowledge that the debt is having anything to do with the stewardship of the club. Vlad set out the KPI's at the outset, not me, and he has failed in what he promised to deliver.

 

I do appreciate that Rangers are a more attractive proposition than we are but for most business that are carrying high amounts of debt in relation to turnover, the selling them for a pound is the only route to complete these transactions. It is what I would expect at Hearts if the new owner was taking over the debt. So the debt and the stewardship of the club go hand in hand and have a massive effect on the KPI's on the pitch.

[Coburg Hearts]

Excuse my ignorance, but having worked in the building trade all my life wtf is KPI? Probably some posh name for just doing your job.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Sorry Geoff but the debt argument is a valid one in our case so there is no need to FFS it. There are some on this board that fail to acknowledge that the debt is having anything to do with the stewardship of the club. Vlad set out the KPI's at the outset, not me, and he has failed in what he promised to deliver.

 

I do appreciate that Rangers are a more attractive proposition than we are but for most business that are carrying high amounts of debt in relation to turnover, the selling them for a pound is the only route to complete these transactions. It is what I would expect at Hearts if the new owner was taking over the debt. So the debt and the stewardship of the club go hand in hand and have a massive effect on the KPI's on the pitch.

What is "valid" about it? If Vlad wrote off the debt tomorrow, what exactly would have changed? Diddly squat.

[Mid Calder Jambo]

Excuse my ignorance, but having worked in the building trade all my life wtf is KPI? Probably some posh name for just doing your job.

 

Correct in one. Winning the league could be one and winning the Champions League could be another Key Performance Indicator.

[Mid Calder Jambo]

What is "valid" about it? If Vlad wrote off the debt tomorrow, what exactly would have changed? Diddly squat.

 

Well, Geoff what would have changed if the debt was removed tomorrow would be the ability to buy players that would enhance the squad, give us a chance of performing on the European stage and maybe then getting additional income which would then help to repay the investment in the squad. We are running the team like paupers at the moment because of the restrictions of the debt. In other words the business can't expand because of the debt, it is static, whole point of my OP, we have remain static during Vlad's stewardship

[deejtee]

Well, Geoff what would have changed if the debt was removed tomorrow would be the ability to buy players that would enhance the squad, give us a chance of performing on the European stage and maybe then getting additional income which would then help to repay the investment in the squad. We are running the team like paupers at the moment because of the restrictions of the debt. In other words the business can't expand because of the debt, it is static, whole point of my OP, we have remain static during Vlad's stewardship

 

Did you advise Dundee FC in the past??

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Well, Geoff what would have changed if the debt was removed tomorrow would be the ability to buy players that would enhance the squad, give us a chance of performing on the European stage and maybe then getting additional income which would then help to repay the investment in the squad. We are running the team like paupers at the moment because of the restrictions of the debt. In other words the business can't expand because of the debt, it is static, whole point of my OP, we have remain static during Vlad's stewardship

Paupers? . Compared to whom? The gruesomes? It may have escaped your attention but their revenue generation is somewhat higher than us.

 

We run at a deficit (not debt - important difference) each year, funded by UBIG. In return UBIG receive interest but, in essence, they make a net contribution to the business as it stands. Now, if the debt interest was wiped out, UBIG could keep that net contribution constant with no difference. Debt would start to accumulate again. That's what these DFE's have been about.

 

Now put away the business studies textbook....

[Mid Calder Jambo]

Paupers? . Compared to whom? The gruesomes? It may have escaped your attention but their revenue generation is somewhat higher than us.

 

We run at a deficit (not debt - important difference) each year, funded by UBIG. In return UBIG receive interest but, in essence, they make a net contribution to the business as it stands. Now, if the debt interest was wiped out, UBIG could keep that net contribution constant with no difference. Debt would start to accumulate again. That's what these DFE's have been about.

 

Now put away the business studies textbook....

 

I am not thick and don't need to lectured to on the fact that the gruesomes have a karger income generation than we do.

 

So according to your "business studies textbook" we live in a rosy garden where Daddy Vlad and his UBIG group keep writing the cheques. OK I accept that, so in essence your implication is that the debt is not inhibiting us, so my question still remains, Why have we not pregressed under Vlads stewardship? Still a valid question. Do i need to get the business studies text book ourt again to answer that one?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I am not thick and don't need to lectured to on the fact that the gruesomes have a karger income generation than we do.

 

So according to your "business studies textbook" we live in a rosy garden where Daddy Vlad and his UBIG group keep writing the cheques. OK I accept that, so in essence your implication is that the debt is not inhibiting us, so my question still remains, Why have we not pregressed under Vlads stewardship? Still a valid question. Do i need to get the business studies text book ourt again to answer that one?

Progressed to where exactly? Listen, if you are pointing out that Vlad has spunked money up against a wall, I completely agree. Could we do more with less? Probably. But again, to progress to what? HMFC are in a market where TV revenue has peaked, the economy is in a situation where the fans' real income is being squeezed so attendances and merchandise spending is down and there is saturation coverage of other leagues, leading to 'soft' support choosing alternatives. Are things rosy? No, but I'd take our situation over every team in the league, bar Septic.

[Rudy T]

Progressed to where exactly? Listen, if you are pointing out that Vlad has spunked money up against a wall, I completely agree. Could we do more with less? Probably. But again, to progress to what? HMFC are in a market where TV revenue has peaked, the economy is in a situation where the fans' real income is being squeezed so attendances and merchandise spending is down and there is saturation coverage of other leagues, leading to 'soft' support choosing alternatives. Are things rosy? No, but I'd take our situation over every team in the league, bar Septic.

 

I think the like's of Hibs are in a rosier situation financially - unless Sir Tam pulls a stunt with Hibernian holdings ? But then success is measured on the pitch so in the eyes of the common fan it doesn't matter what the books look like so long as the team are winning, which is where the entire business model fall's apart. In all honesty do you believe Romanov was here for football ? I doubt it he saw a business opportunity, the global recession put pay to that and now he's stuck with a train set he can only be bothered playing with once in a while !

 

For me the problem isn't the clubs as such its the league structure, the salaries, the price of tickets and distribution of monies on a take it or leave it TV deal. If someone had the balls to overhaul Scottish football not a 10 team league for a start, introduce a home players and under 23 rule with a basic salary cap supplemented by bonuses we'd see a new era in football. Then they could look a ticket prices and perhaps make the game more attractive to the playstation generation !

[The Treasurer]

I am not thick and don't need to lectured to on the fact that the gruesomes have a karger income generation than we do.

 

So according to your "business studies textbook" we live in a rosy garden where Daddy Vlad and his UBIG group keep writing the cheques. OK I accept that, so in essence your implication is that the debt is not inhibiting us, so my question still remains, Why have we not pregressed under Vlads stewardship? Still a valid question. Do i need to get the business studies text book ourt again to answer that one?

 

From what you're saying I assume that you're unaware of the pending rule changes from UEFA

Clubs will not be permitted in European competition if they are spending more than they earn.

i.e. they can't go out and sign players on big contracts if they don't have the income to pay for them.

This is the reason the club are trying (and succeeding) in bringing down our wage bill and cannot compete financially with the OF.

So Geoff is right, the debt is not inhibiting us, it's the income we can generate that prevents us from "becoming the new Shalke"

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think the like's of Hibs are in a rosier situation financially - unless Sir Tam pulls a stunt with Hibernian holdings ? But then success is measured on the pitch so in the eyes of the common fan it doesn't matter what the books look like so long as the team are winning, which is where the entire business model fall's apart. In all honesty do you believe Romanov was here for football ? I doubt it he saw a business opportunity, the global recession put pay to that and now he's stuck with a train set he can only be bothered playing with once in a while !

 

The vermin have spent money on a new stand that was meant to be income generating. Instead, their attendances are down and Fester Road looks bleak and empty. Hell, they can't even come close to selling out a derby. Without decent investment in a team (which costs money and seems to go against the grain), they will reside in lower level mediocrity with declining income.

 

For me the problem isn't the clubs as such its the league structure, the salaries, the price of tickets and distribution of monies on a take it or leave it TV deal. If someone had the balls to overhaul Scottish football not a 10 team league for a start, introduce a home players and under 23 rule with a basic salary cap supplemented by bonuses we'd see a new era in football. Then they could look a ticket prices and perhaps make the game more attractive to the playstation generation !

 

That I do agree with but while the cancer at the heart of Scottish football continues to be pandered to, that's a pipe dream.

[Rudy T]

The vermin have spent money on a new stand that was meant to be income generating. Instead, their attendances are down and Fester Road looks bleak and empty. Hell, they can't even come close to selling out a derby. Without decent investment in a team (which costs money and seems to go against the grain), they will reside in lower level mediocrity with declining income.

 

That I do agree with but while the cancer at the heart of Scottish football continues to be pandered to, that's a pipe dream.

 

And long may that decline continue !!

[Mid Calder Jambo]

From what you're saying I assume that you're unaware of the pending rule changes from UEFA

Clubs will not be permitted in European competition if they are spending more than they earn.

i.e. they can't go out and sign players on big contracts if they don't have the income to pay for them.

This is the reason the club are trying (and succeeding) in bringing down our wage bill and cannot compete financially with the OF.

So Geoff is right, the debt is not inhibiting us, it's the income we can generate that prevents us from "becoming the new Shalke"

 

No you don't need to tell me about the new UEFA reg's i am aware of them.

 

In the main I agree with what you have tio say but the flaw in your argument is the revenue generation. What is preventing us generating more income from ticket sales, sponsorship pakages etc is the lack of progres on the park and IMHO the stewardship off it. We all remember the guys who said they would not renew saeson tickets until Vlad had gone. Have they renewed since maybe they will tell me they have, but this is an example of how income generation is being inhibited.

[Victorian]

No you don't need to tell me about the new UEFA reg's i am aware of them.

 

In the main I agree with what you have tio say but the flaw in your argument is the revenue generation. What is preventing us generating more income from ticket sales, sponsorship pakages etc is the lack of progres on the park and IMHO the stewardship off it. We all remember the guys who said they would not renew saeson tickets until Vlad had gone. Have they renewed since maybe they will tell me they have, but this is an example of how income generation is being inhibited.

 

you're not half talking some pish.

 

apologies for not entering into the spirit of things like some of the others but i can't be ersed.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No you don't need to tell me about the new UEFA reg's i am aware of them.

 

In the main I agree with what you have tio say but the flaw in your argument is the revenue generation. What is preventing us generating more income from ticket sales, sponsorship pakages etc is the lack of progres on the park and IMHO the stewardship off it. We all remember the guys who said they would not renew saeson tickets until Vlad had gone. Have they renewed since maybe they will tell me they have, but this is an example of how income generation is being inhibited.

Sponsorship and corporate income has fallen because of the recession so that's not helping your argument. Similarly, getting another 3000 bums on seats a week to fill the ground would be good but our days of signing European Cup and European Championship winners to do that seem to be over.

 

How much do you think we could be generating in turnover, out of interest?

[Clerry Jambo]

you're not half talking some pish.

 

apologies for not entering into the spirit of things like some of the others but i can't be ersed.

 

ye wur "ersed" enough to make a shite post though

[deejtee]

No you don't need to tell me about the new UEFA reg's i am aware of them.

 

In the main I agree with what you have tio say but the flaw in your argument is the revenue generation. What is preventing us generating more income from ticket sales, sponsorship pakages etc is the lack of progres on the park and IMHO the stewardship off it. We all remember the guys who said they would not renew saeson tickets until Vlad had gone. Have they renewed since maybe they will tell me they have, but this is an example of how income generation is being inhibited.

 

I think most fans feel Vlad made errors in his stewardship early on and that the momentum to a bigger stadium and more income has evaporated. I do not accept for an instant that the fans who are so fickle or ill informed that they won't come back solely while Vlad is here exist in sufficient numbers to make any real difference to our attendances. Vlad is not involved at other clubs whose gates are dismal. That is as is pointed out by others a social, saturation Tv coverage, economical etc etc fact of life

[Sydney]

Sponsorship and corporate income has fallen because of the recession so that's not helping your argument. Similarly, getting another 3000 bums on seats a week to fill the ground would be good but our days of signing European Cup and European Championship winners to do that seem to be over.

 

How much do you think we could be generating in turnover, out of interest?

 

My guess is that in any given successful season (excluding Champions League money), with average crowds of 17,000, the most we'd earn in a year is 14-15 million.