Really?

[Eckauskas]

Celtic have privately urged Uefa to intervene in the sectarianism debate in Scottish football with the hope of making the Scottish Football Association and Scottish Premier League more forceful in tackling the problem. (the Times)

 

In private correspondence with the Scottish Football Association, Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell has insisted that his club does not have a sectarianism problem in a clear effort to distance them from the current difficulties being faced by Old Firm rivals Rangers. (the Times)

 

 

Can't wait to have them in amongst us next Wednesday

[cosanostra]

Do they actually sing sectarian songs though? I'm less familiar with their brand of sectarian songs than I am with the hun versions. About 90% of their songs seem to be IRA related and that's bad enough but in terms of sectarianism, do they actually come close to the Huns? I heard a bunch of smelly Hobos singing some song about going to "Dublin in the green" which had some sectarian stuff in it after the 1-0 game at Tyncecastle but that was pretty rare and it was the first time i'd really heard Hobos singing that kind of thing for ages.

[Eckauskas]

I'm pretty sure the terrace version of 'Fields Of Athenry' has the line 'So we may see those Orange *******s die' in it.

[cosanostra]

I'm pretty sure the terrace version of 'Fields Of Athenry' has the line 'So we may see those Orange *******s die' in it.

 

 

Does it? I've never actually noticed that but it is kind of hard to make out what they're singing.

The way I see it, both OF sets of fans are equally scummy. Rangers are 90% about religious bigotry and 10% Northern Ireland / paramilitary pish.

Celtic fans are about 90% into Northern Ireland / IRA pish and 10% into religious bigotry.

 

Celtic fans are a horrible, nasty lot and they've proven how low and despicable they can be with their tolerance of the green brigade antics, but when it comes to actual sectarianism, Rangers are truly in a league of their own.

[Craigieboy]

Utter bullshit.

 

Celtic fans sing vile & disgusting songs which are every bit as bad as Rangers.

 

They are currently singing pro IRA stuff in the lovely retirement town of Pitlochry as we speak.

 

Celtic distancing themselves from sectarian problems -

 

Arseholes.

[cosanostra]

Utter bullshit.

 

Celtic fans sing vile & disgusting songs which are every bit as bad as Rangers.

 

They are currently singing pro IRA stuff in the lovely retirement town of Pitlochry as we speak.

 

Celtic distancing themselves from sectarian problems -

 

Arseholes.

 

Yes, we know all this.

Songs about the IRA etc are not sectarian though, are they?

Do they actually sing about religious bigotry in the same way that Huns do? I actually don't know to be honest.

[Eckauskas]

Does it? I've never actually noticed that but it is kind of hard to make out what they're singing.

The way I see it, both OF sets of fans are equally scummy. Rangers are 90% about religious bigotry and 10% Northern Ireland / paramilitary pish.

Celtic fans are about 90% into Northern Ireland / IRA pish and 10% into religious bigotry.

 

Celtic fans are a horrible, nasty lot and they've proven how low and despicable they can be with their tolerance of the green brigade antics, but when it comes to actual sectarianism, Rangers are truly in a league of their own.

 

I disagree to an extent.

 

Have you been to Parkhead recently cosa? Songs involving the term 'wee huns' are certainly not rare. Now, under some directive, the term 'hun' is a sectarian term. I know that's fairly tenuous, but that's one example.

 

To me, all Celtic are doing is trying to twist the knife whilst, wrongly, denying they have a problem. It's the sheer hypocrisy of them that gets me here. I'm no fan of Rangers and would happily see them slapped with constant points deductions. However, this faux innocence act is extremely frustrating.

 

Especially when no-one outside of Scotland is willing to accept what they're really like.

[TheBigO]

Thing is, I guess Celtic can get out of it becaue their particular brand of bile maybe just can't quite be unbrella'd by sectarianism, whereas Rangers' filth pretty much can. Anti-unionism maybe isn't quite sectarian but it's still bigotry in the way they express it.

 

That in no way takes away from the fact that whatever you want to call it, they have a massive problem with their fans. They just won't admit it. Everything happens TO them doesn't it.

 

It's like beating the crap out of a guy cos he's from Pakistan and claiming not to be racist: "I'm xenophobic, actually. How dare you call me racist. Defamation of my character. I shall contact my lawyer. Now pass me back my empty Buckie bottle and let me finish this dirty P^*i."

[shaun.lawson]

Yes, we know all this.

Songs about the IRA etc are not sectarian though, are they?

Do they actually sing about religious bigotry in the same way that Huns do? I actually don't know to be honest.

 

I think a court recently ruled that such songs aren't sectarian, but political. Which is deeply, deeply regrettable - because it seems for all the world that songs about the IRA are intended to cause offence of a sectarian nature.

 

Mind you cosa, the term "Huns" is sectarian too. It's routinely used by a huge number of people on this website; I don't think it should be TBH.

[Craigieboy]

 

Do they actually sing about religious bigotry in the same way that Huns do?

 

Yes.

[rossthejambo]

Yes, we know all this.

Songs about the IRA etc are not sectarian though, are they?

Do they actually sing about religious bigotry in the same way that Huns do? I actually don't know to be honest.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I read it. They're the lowest of the low as far as human beings are concerned IMO but I don't think they actually sing sectarian songs at games.

[cosanostra]

I disagree to an extent.

 

Have you been to Parkhead recently cosa? Songs involving the term 'wee huns' are certainly not rare. Now, under some directive, the term 'hun' is a sectarian term. I know that's fairly tenuous, but that's one example.

 

To me, all Celtic are doing is trying to twist the knife whilst, wrongly, denying they have a problem. It's the sheer hypocrisy of them that gets me here. I'm no fan of Rangers and would happily see them slapped with constant points deductions. However, this faux innocence act is extremely frustrating.

 

Especially when no-one outside of Scotland is willing to accept what they're really like.

 

I was at Parkhead once this season and twice last.

I don't really care about the term "hun" and I've heard all the nil by mouth pish and don't agree with it. Hun = tim and neither words seem to offend anyone apart from Rangers fans trying to point the sectarian finger at Celtic fans.

 

I agree with the point about them twisting the knife. That's exactly what they're trying to do. And it is absolutely faux innocence given what their fans sing about. However, it's not sectarian IMO. It's disgusting and illegal. I mean, how long would a group of Asian guys with beards get away with singing songs about Al Qaeda be allowed to continue before being arrested? This seems to be perfectly acceptable for Celtic fans to do the same every Saturday though with their own favourite group of terrorists.

 

Still though, it's not sectarianism, is it?

[cosanostra]

Yes.

 

 

Do they? I've sat in section G for the last 3 or 4 seasons and I can't say I've noticed that sort of singing. I'm not saying that you're wrong, just that I maybe am unfamiliar with their songs.

 

I was thinking the same thing when I read it. They're the lowest of the low as far as human beings are concerned IMO but I don't think they actually sing sectarian songs at games.

 

Kind of how I feel. Celtic have other problems but sectarianism seems to be more of a Rangers problem to me. I don't doubt that Celtic have an element who are into this sort of thing, they just seem to be less apparent at games.

[Guest Dr. Pepper]

Does it? I've never actually noticed that but it is kind of hard to make out what they're singing.

The way I see it, both OF sets of fans are equally scummy. Rangers are 90% about religious bigotry and 10% Northern Ireland / paramilitary pish.

Celtic fans are about 90% into Northern Ireland / IRA pish and 10% into religious bigotry.

 

Celtic fans are a horrible, nasty lot and they've proven how low and despicable they can be with their tolerance of the green brigade antics, but when it comes to actual sectarianism, Rangers are truly in a league of their own.

 

 

To say Celtic fans are "10% religious bigots" is a massive understatement.

 

To say when it comes to actual sectarianism that Rangers are in a league of their own is also wrong.

 

When talking about sectarianism in Scotland or Ireland, the sectarian hatred/intolerance/bigotry refers to both religion and politics.

 

Both could therefore be considered as bad as each other, with Hearts once again cementing its place as Scotlands third force. IMO

[cosanostra]

To say Celtic fans are "10% religious bigots" is a massive understatement.

To say when it comes to actual sectarianism that Rangers are in a league of their own is also wrong.

 

When talking about sectarianism in Scotland or Ireland, the sectarian hatred/intolerance/bigotry refers to both religion and politics.

 

Both could therefore be considered as bad as each other, with Hearts once again cementing its place as Scotlands third force. IMO

 

To be honest, that wasn't meant to be taken literally. It was more just to show my opinion that Rangers fans are heavily into hating catholics wheras Celtic fans are heavily into promoting terrorism and murder. It wasn't like I conducted a survey or anything.

 

I'm not denying that they are as bad as each other, my point is that when it comes to pure religious hatred, I've seen a vast amount of this from Rangers and a whole let less from Celtic. When it comes to promoting terrorism and murder, I've heard a vast amount of this from Celtic and a whole lot less from Rangers. The two are obviously linked but they're not the same thing. UEFA seems to be taking one seriously and not even acknowledging the other.

[The Old Tolbooth]

With Rangers fans you know exactly what you're going to get from them, they know that they're sectarian scum and make no attempt to hide the fact or be two faced about it, Celtic on the other hand are extremely sleekit and underhand as they pretend it's only Rangers who have a problem, and then start singing all their own terrorist loving pish once assembled behind the goals, then outside again it magically disappears as if it wasn't them, and everyone appears to buy it! I can't be the only one who thinks pretending to be a sniper shooting at someone isn't quite "normal behaviour" inside a football stadium

 

In my opinion, Celtic are every bit as bad as Rangers when it comes to sectarian singing and offensive songs.

[vintage1874]

I think a court recently ruled that such songs aren't sectarian, but political. Which is deeply, deeply regrettable - because it seems for all the world that songs about the IRA are intended to cause offence of a sectarian nature.

 

Mind you cosa, the term "Huns" is sectarian too. It's routinely used by a huge number of people on this website; I don't think it should be TBH.

 

Good point. The pro IRA songs are deeply offensive especially given the IRA's actions in modern times. Sectarian or political no place for any of it it at the football, yet again Celtic are saved by a loophole

 

I've heard a few posters talk of this court ruling do you know where and when the ruling was made?

[Wolfstar]

Everyone knows Rangers have a problem (apart from the SFA) UEFA are trying to stop this and if they were to investigate Rangers on a 'scottish' playing field rahter than a european one then they would be hammered even more, I can not believe the songs sung at PSV were any worse than what we have all heard many times before.

 

Celtic at tynecastle though takes 'offensive' songs to a new leval. They constantly promote the IRA and singing songs such as 'you can shove your bloodstained poppys up your arse' have no place anywhere in society, I am sure if I sung this on a saturday night in town I would quickly find myself locked up.

 

FWIW I am not offended by much of what the old firm sing, but the fact that they are allowed to sing what they want and cover it up as a minority group is laughable, the problem could be pushed out of football very quickly, sing these songs and points will be deducted and fines will be handed out. The main issue is within scotland this is not a problem with society that hangs onto football, but a problem with football that then rots society. Both sets of fans are basically armchair terrorists that thrive on Nothern Irelands past, a past that Belfast and NI are trying there best to get away from, if the SFA man-up and grow a set then this disese could be removed from our game and country

[Rudy T]

Actually some really good points here and so far it?s remained a fairly adult debate.

 

The Celtic fans have made a calculated and organised play on the sectarian singing - they now sing ?traditional? Irish folk songs, which aren?t outlawed. The fact that many of these songs refer to the IRA in one way or another, to date, hasn?t hit the UEFA radar.

 

However the Green Brigade almost ruined the party with their odious (and misspelt) ?poppy? banner which threw the spotlight back onto the Celtic support.

 

What I see now, given the non-action against the green brigade by the club, is an attempt to push all prying eyes back across the city to Rangers.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

The definition of 'sectarian' could prove to protect on of the most disgusting and bigoted supports in world football after that professor guy argued that Celtic's alliegance to the murderous IRA terrorists was not 'sectarian'... FFS it is clearly very offensive and inflamatory and is a big part in the thuggery that occurs after and during games involving Celtic and yet it is being largely ignored because of a technicality in the wording of the laws that are supposed to be in place to deal with this kind of problem??? WTF!

 

Smoke-bombs, players celebrating goals in the wrog place and messages on football tops are deemed dangerous and inflamatory but there is no case to answer for singing songs of allegience to terrorist organisations that have commited cowardly and deadly acts in the UK where these songs are sungs?

 

Now that the disgusting Blue Orcs are being clamped down on, I hope to **** that Celtic's verminous support are not let off for their mingin chants and songs because of a technicality.

[Guest C00l K1d]

Being allowed to sing pro-terrorist songs is an awfy big loophole.

 

Thing is the tics think their angels because most of the bile they sing isn't deemed sectarian, even though it's a different thing it's still as bad.

 

Imo it's not fair that it's only Rangers that are getting hammered, but one of them getting it tight is better than none.

[ecjambo]

They are as bad as each other. In my eyes singing about the IRA and the like is just as bad as some of the sectarian rubbish Rangers come out with.

 

When it comes to songs we have the best one and that's the end of it!

[DETTY29]

With Rangers fans you know exactly what you're going to get from them, they know that they're sectarian scum and make no attempt to hide the fact or be two faced about it, Celtic on the other hand are extremely sleekit and underhand as they pretend it's only Rangers who have a problem, and then start singing all their own terrorist loving pish once assembled behind the goals, then outside again it magically disappears as if it wasn't them, and everyone appears to buy it! I can't be the only one who thinks pretending to be a sniper shooting at someone isn't quite "normal behaviour" inside a football stadium

 

In my opinion, Celtic are every bit as bad as Rangers when it comes to sectarian singing and offensive songs.

I agree John, but it appears to be down to the legalities of it all. Not all the songs Rangers fans sing are illegal either through the actual words, but the intent is clearly there. (And Rangers have their supporters on here for these type of songs)

 

To get Celtic, then there has to be a responsibility from Rangers (and all other clubs fans) that all songs with intent have to be deemed illiegal/sectarian. Otherwise there is not a lot any of us can do them (Celtic).

[Seymour M Hersh]

They're a sleekit bunch at darkheid. Very unpleasant bunch as well.

[The Gasman]

The definition of 'sectarian' could prove to protect on of the most disgusting and bigoted supports in world football after that professor guy argued that Celtic's alliegance to the murderous IRA terrorists was not 'sectarian'... FFS it is clearly very offensive and inflamatory and is a big part in the thuggery that occurs after and during games involving Celtic and yet it is being largely ignored because of a technicality in the wording of the laws that are supposed to be in place to deal with this kind of problem??? WTF!

 

Smoke-bombs, players celebrating goals in the wrog place and messages on football tops are deemed dangerous and inflamatory but there is no case to answer for singing songs of allegience to terrorist organisations that have commited cowardly and deadly acts in the UK where these songs are sungs?

 

Does this not miss the point slightly though?

 

What the Celtic fans regularly sing can still be illegal, with being specifically sectarian. The whole "we're not sectarian, but they are" is just a red herring, and doesn't (or shouldn't) make any difference.

 

Is promoting terrorism not also illegal?

 

Even if not, the fact these quaint little folk ditties (!) are sung to try and noise up the other lot, could class what they're doing as "behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace" which is an offence in Scottish Law.

 

If Celtic / SFA / SPL / SFL / Police are serious about this, it can be stopped (relatively) easily. They managed it no problem with the song about Large John being aware, which is not Racist, Sectarian, or Bigoted.

[davemclaren]

Celtic can plead innocence and might get away with it at Uefa ( who don't understand the complexities of sectarianism in Scotland ) but the intention of their fans in singing their 'special' songs is clearly sectarian.

[Only a Game]

Dear Mr Lawell,

 

Thank you for your correspondence on the matter of sectarianism at other clubs.

 

To allow us to investigate this matter to everyone's satisfaction perhaps you could explain why an organisation names The Green Brigade are tolerated and in fact encouraged at Celtic Park, well knowing the context that the very word "Brigade" can be taken and is no doubt meant to be taken.

 

Perhaps you could also explain what the phrase "OO Ah Up the RA" means. We have several recordings of this being sung by fans of your club and we, in the interests of fairness to all the clubs you are asking us to investigate, would require you to confirm that the phrase has no possible sectarian or otherwise offensive meaning. In particular we sincerely hope that the phrase does not express support for a terrorist organisation, as this would of course, discredit and in fact completely nullify your case.

 

 

Kindest regards

[Sten Guns]

They are 100% as bad as each other.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism

[The Old Tolbooth]

I agree John, but it appears to be down to the legalities of it all. Not all the songs Rangers fans sing are illegal either through the actual words, but the intent is clearly there. (And Rangers have their supporters on here for these type of songs)

 

To get Celtic, then there has to be a responsibility from Rangers (and all other clubs fans) that all songs with intent have to be deemed illiegal/sectarian. Otherwise there is not a lot any of us can do them (Celtic).

 

 

Celtic can plead innocence and might get away with it at Uefa ( who don't understand the complexities of sectarianism in Scotland ) but the intention of their fans in singing their 'special' songs is clearly sectarian.

 

Dave, you covered exactly what I was going to say mate, they sing those songs for different reasons that the songs were originally intended to be used for, and then hide behind the fact that they were written and sung originally as unoffensive songs, it's sickening.

[portobellojambo1]

I think a court recently ruled that such songs aren't sectarian, but political. Which is deeply, deeply regrettable - because it seems for all the world that songs about the IRA are intended to cause offence of a sectarian nature.

 

Mind you cosa, the term "Huns" is sectarian too. It's routinely used by a huge number of people on this website; I don't think it should be TBH.

 

The danger is Shaun that if the courts allow Celtic fans to sing songs about the IRA, and class them as political, then the chances are that Rangers fans are given an opportunity to change their repertoire, drop one or two words from one or two songs, and start singing songs about the UVF, UDA, UFF, YCV, RHC etc. and class them as political songs.

 

Sounds like the approach of many of those accused of membership of the IRA, who came out with similar bullshit, and tried to declare that their affiliation wasn't to PIRA, but to Sinn Fein, although actively referred to it as the political wing of the IRA.

 

One has to ask what is more likely to cause death, someone at a football match who sings a song that ends with the words FTP, or someone who plants a bomb in amongst civilians in a shopping centre (and which will UEFA find offensive, when the answer should be both).

 

Support of such terrorists, masking it as political, is no defence, but is something only an institution like Glasgow Celtic Football Club could come up with. It is a cop out. But what do you expect from a football club who allowed the Wolfe Tones to play there, and collections for their political friends to actively take place inside their stadium. They are feckin trash of the highest order.

[topcat]

I think a court recently ruled that such songs aren't sectarian, but political. Which is deeply, deeply regrettable - because it seems for all the world that songs about the IRA are intended to cause offence of a sectarian nature.

 

Mind you cosa, the term "Huns" is sectarian too. It's routinely used by a huge number of people on this website; I don't think it should be TBH.

 

Which court?

 

Most of the judgements on this kind of thing are trivial breach of the peace cases heard in Sheriff Courts which means that the judgement isn't necessarily binding on other courts so "The sash" isn't sectarian in Hamilton but might yet be in Haddington.

 

"Sectarian" is such a nebulous and disputed concept that it would be exceedingly difficult to legislate a widely accepted definition with any kind of clarity.

[Al Bundy]

Still to see the ruling that folk are talking about - where is it?

 

IRA - An army borne from Irish civil/political discontent whose enemy was Britain, especially after the bloody tit-for-tats with the Black & Tans who did treat republicans badly and when this happens, human nature exacts revenge. Belfast ties with Britain sees the first of Protestant -v- Catholics murders and public building burnings. (Quite how all this happened through WW1 onwards confuses me - a civil war starting during the great war to end wars??!)

The remainder of the 20th century sees irish frontiers breached and the fight taken to the mainland in a desperate attempt to be taken seriously and all the time taken as lunatics for killing and maiming innocents with lunatics in Belfast exacting their own vile acts = Sectarian War with each other whilst bombing mainland Britain.

 

The IRA were part of that sectarian picture whatever anyones beliefs are around the rights and wrongs of why they were created in the first place.

 

What knobhead is trying to nanny-state us and suggest otherwise??

 

I've said before, if Scotland had been targetted the same as England, this crap would have been put to bed many years ago as nobody would have tolerated it.

 

I would happily have fines and points deductions all over the place for all tacky songs until people get the message and start to mature up and not play the 90 min ersehole role because they're frustrated with their own life outside the game (refugees, deceaseds, "jews & *******", holocaust jibes at spurs, etc, etc)

 

Rant over and oot!

[portobellojambo1]

Which court?

 

Most of the judgements on this kind of thing are trivial breach of the peace cases heard in Sheriff Courts which means that the judgement isn't necessarily binding on other courts so "The sash" isn't sectarian in Hamilton but might yet be in Haddington.

 

"Sectarian" is such a nebulous and disputed concept that it would be exceedingly difficult to legislate a widely accepted definition with any kind of clarity.

 

The thing with most if not all the songs sung by either grouping is that if the correct words were sung by both, and there were no add ons/minor alterations the songs aren't actually sectarian as such. The background /derivation/reasons for such songs might be unpleasing to those of a different religious/political persuasion, but that doesn't make them sectarian/bigoted as such.

 

It is the add ons/word changes that make them sectarian. Irrespective of someone's religious beliefs/political beliefs etc. etc. there is a time and a place to express such beliefs, and inside a football stadium, IMO, is neither the time nor the place.

 

If action is taken against one side it has to be taken against the other, otherwise you are banging your head against a brick wall. And if both sides don't recognise that changes need to happen you have no feckin hope of moving forward. Excuses don't lead to change.

[DETTY29]

The thing with most if not all the songs sung by either grouping is that if the correct words were sung by both, and there were no add ons/minor alterations the songs aren't actually sectarian as such. The background /derivation/reasons for such songs might be unpleasing to those of a different religious/political persuasion, but that doesn't make them sectarian/bigoted as such.

 

It is the add ons/word changes that make them sectarian. Irrespective of someone's religious beliefs/political beliefs etc. etc. there is a time and a place to express such beliefs, and inside a football stadium, IMO, is neither the time nor the place.

If action is taken against one side it has to be taken against the other, otherwise you are banging your head against a brick wall. And if both sides don't recognise that changes need to happen you have no feckin hope of moving forward. Excuses don't lead to change.

But that'a pretty much where we are just now.

 

If Celtic, Lawwell, Reid wanted to get rid of sectarianism then they are going to hae to come down hard on their own fans, instead of protecting them. That statement from Lawwell actually fuels sectarianism. Most Rangers fans reading that will be saying to themselves 'How do those terrorist loving fenian b@st@rds get away with it?'

 

And there is problem no2. It ain't an element or minority within the Rangers fan base who think that way. And while Bain kids himself on that it is then Rangers won't rid themselves because within their fanbase, their sectarianism is a moral high ground compared to terrorism.

 

Maybe I'm being too simplistic because this isn't a view shared by any commentators I've read.

[MacDonald Jardine]

Which court?

 

Most of the judgements on this kind of thing are trivial breach of the peace cases heard in Sheriff Courts which means that the judgement isn't necessarily binding on other courts so "The sash" isn't sectarian in Hamilton but might yet be in Haddington.

 

"Sectarian" is such a nebulous and disputed concept that it would be exceedingly difficult to legislate a widely accepted definition with any kind of clarity.

 

It was a Sheriff Court case, I think in Perth or somewhere like that.

 

"The sash" is actually one of these "folk songs" assuming no add ons, whether in Hamilton or Haddington.

 

If it's difficult to legislate what's sectarian and what isn't there's an awful lot of time and energy being wasted trying to rid Scotland of sectarianism.

[topcat]

The thing with most if not all the songs sung by either grouping is that if the correct words were sung by both, and there were no add ons/minor alterations the songs aren't actually sectarian as such. The background /derivation/reasons for such songs might be unpleasing to those of a different religious/political persuasion, but that doesn't make them sectarian/bigoted as such.

 

It is the add ons/word changes that make them sectarian. Irrespective of someone's religious beliefs/political beliefs etc. etc. there is a time and a place to express such beliefs, and inside a football stadium, IMO, is neither the time nor the place.

 

If action is taken against one side it has to be taken against the other, otherwise you are banging your head against a brick wall. And if both sides don't recognise that changes need to happen you have no feckin hope of moving forward. Excuses don't lead to change.

 

The fact that you're suffixing it with "as such" shows how vague a concept it is

 

In purely etymological terms "Sectarianism" means "of, or pertaining to, a sect"

 

"Sect" in turn originally meant "a group of followers"

 

So technically speaking "Follow Follow" is the most sectarian song there is

[MacDonald Jardine]

The fact that you're suffixing it with "as such" shows how vague a concept it is

 

In purely etymological terms "Sectarianism" means "of, or pertaining to, a sect"

 

"Sect" in turn originally meant "a group of followers"

 

So technically speaking "Follow Follow" is the most sectarian song there is

 

Indeed. Every song in support of any team is technically sectarian.

[Tazio]

Someone once said to me that if Rangers and Celtic were thieves the Rangers fan would rob you and admit he's a thief, the Celtic fan wold still rob you but deny that he was a thief. But at the end of the day they both robbed you, one is in denial though.

[topcat]

Indeed. Every song in support of any team is technically sectarian.

As are

 

"Follow the Yellow Brick Road" from the Wizard of Oz

"Follow you, Follow Me" by Genesis

"I will Follow" by U2

"As long as you Follow" by Fleetwood Mac

"I'm the leader of the gang" by Gary Glitter

and

"All the Shi-ites are shite" by Sunni boy williamson

[portobellojambo1]

But that'a pretty much where we are just now.

 

That's pretty much what I was getting at Detty29. If either side, or both sides deny a problem exists, they cannot actively set about the process of fixing it and/or changing. Unless you are honest and say "we do have a problem element in our support (irrespective of what %age of the overall support that element is)" you are in denial.

[portobellojambo1]

The fact that you're suffixing it with "as such" shows how vague a concept it is

 

In purely etymological terms "Sectarianism" means "of, or pertaining to, a sect"

 

"Sect" in turn originally meant "a group of followers"

 

So technically speaking "Follow Follow" is the most sectarian song there is

 

I agree topcat, any song can in theory, within the parameters of the term sectarian, be taken as sectarian by those who are not singing it, irrespective of the actual content of the song being sung, as it is being sung by a particular sect, or "following".

[Gizmo]

Surely when we hear that the clubs/SFA/UEFA/Holyrood want to tackle sectarianism AND bigotry that covers more than just songs deemed to be 'sectarian'. Bigotry is defined as extreme intolerance and prejudice, so why can't that be used to stop the sneaky manner in which the Celtic fans indulge in their own hatred and espouse disgusting beliefs and support for odious organisations?

[world_3]

With Rangers fans you know exactly what you're going to get from them, they know that they're sectarian scum and make no attempt to hide the fact or be two faced about it, Celtic on the other hand are extremely sleekit and underhand as they pretend it's only Rangers who have a problem, and then start singing all their own terrorist loving pish once assembled behind the goals, then outside again it magically disappears as if it wasn't them, and everyone appears to buy it! I can't be the only one who thinks pretending to be a sniper shooting at someone isn't quite "normal behaviour" inside a football stadium

 

 

In my opinion, Celtic are every bit as bad as Rangers when it comes to sectarian singing and offensive songs.

 

This is bang on the money. Especially after a few sherries the minority/majority (delete as appropriate depending on your point of view) Rangers fan will happily admit to hating Kaffliks, Feenyins etc. Celtic fans keep it all under wraps in public, but the reality is that when they think no-one is watching they're just as bad as Rangers. Prefer the Rangers version of sectarianism to be honest, at least you know exactly where you stand with the knuckle-dragging Neanderthal throwbacks.

[Erik]

Sing songs promoting terrorist groups...... hell, even wear balavlaca's to football matches and make snipering gestures to other supporters. This is all fine and dandy.

 

Call someone a hun or a fenian though............. whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooah - SECTARIAN!!!! BIGOTTED!!!! HANG THE BARSTEWARDS!!!!!

 

It could only happen in Scotland. Utterly laughable.

 

We're far too caught up in defining what is and isnt sectarian in this country.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

The IRA kills protestants and anyone it sees as supporting "protestant institutions". It is therefore clearly a sectarian organisation, I can't see how there could possibly be any debate about it.

[Deevers]

Maybe it's time that the "football legislators" got themselves away from the hospitality at matches and actually watched the behaviour of these animals on their way too and from matches as well as closely scrutinising their behaviour within stadiums. The behaviour of Celtic supporters is just as bad as Rangers supporters if not worse. Always seems to me that there has been more than a tendency to just ignore their antics by politicians whilst highlighting the bile spouted by their Govan based mirror image. Maybe thats because over the years Scotland in the main has been "ruled" politically by Labour where many of their West Coast MP's and MSP's have unashamedly Celtic connections. if anything is going to be done to curb this blight on Scottish society politicians have to get rid of their quasi religious/footballing affiliations and actively punish these people - no matter what club they claim to support, just as the football legislators have to remove the blindfolds and deal with the clubs robustly. However this is Scotland we are speaking about and I don't see any of this actually happening.

[Hearts of Vladland]

Meanwhile at Killie Celtic fans sing 'Celtic Symphony'.