Accounts just received - Oh My God.

[awadooningorgie2]

Three things stand out:

 

1. Losses for the year: ?12.45 million - we spent ?22.071 million and brought in ?10.319 million.

 

2. Staff costs ?12.488 million - BUT in addition to this - ?3.822 million to 'acquire' player registrations.....WTF??????

 

3. Prior year adjustment - for the previous years accounts an adjustment where the club was retrospectively charged ?486,000 for players loaned from other clubs, meaning the loss the previosu year was actually half a million higher.

 

Seems clear to me that money/debt is being poured through UBIG and Kaunas - loaned to Hearts and stacked on our debt.

 

Something stinks to high heaven.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Does it not benefit VR/UBIG for Hearts to be in large amounts of debt ?

 

Do they not get a ridiculous amount of tax rebates back from the Lithuanian government for companies debt that is non-lithuanian ?

 

Would make sense then for the Hearts debt to high.

 

Plus, with UBIG capitalising on the debt levels this year, it shows long term commitment to the club....

 

And, a debt is only a debt (in reality) when it's called in

[Charlie-Brown]

Bednar, Aguiar, Goncalves - all transferred from Kaunas to Hearts - whether Miko, Chesney or anybody else did is uncertain. That figure might also partly refer to acquiring Pinilla's registration as his ownership was convoluted.

[Martin_T]

Three things stand out:

 

1. Losses for the year: ?12.45 million - we spent ?22.071 million and brought in ?10.319 million.

 

2. Staff costs ?12.488 million - BUT in addition to this - ?3.822 million to 'acquire' player registrations.....WTF??????

 

3. Prior year adjustment - for the previous years accounts an adjustment where the club was retrospectively charged ?486,000 for players loaned from other clubs, meaning the loss the previosu year was actually half a million higher.

 

Seems clear to me that money/debt is being poured through UBIG and Kaunas - loaned to Hearts and stacked on our debt.

 

Something stinks to high heaven.

 

I'm guessing this is the transfer fees and signing on fees spent over the period. I can only think of Kingston, Karipidis, Pinilla and all the Lithuanian loans who were acquired over the period of the accounts? Unless Romanov charged Hearts significant fees for the acquisition of Bednar, Goncalves and Aguiar on permanent deals from Kaunas.

[dkmmgcycbwc]

Acquiring players' registrations is just business speak for incoming transfers, surely.

[Guest GhostHunter]

Acquiring players' registrations is just business speak for incoming transfers, surely.

 

That's my thinking also....

[awadooningorgie2]

There is a note later on that this registration cost does not include signing on fees.....

[Martin_T]

Does it not benefit VR/UBIG for Hearts to be in large amounts of debt ?

 

Do they not get a ridiculous amount of tax rebates back from the Lithuanian government for companies debt that is non-lithuanian ?

 

Would make sense then for the Hearts debt to high.

 

Plus, with UBIG capitalising on the debt levels this year, it shows long term commitment to the club....

 

And, a debt is only a debt (in reality) when it's called in

 

This is true Dexter, however it leaves Hearts extremely vulnerable to institutional risk should the solvency or even the ownership of UBIG/ Ukio Bankas change.

[awadooningorgie2]

That's my thinking also....

 

So who did we buy for ?4 million, yes ?4 million quid?????

[Guest GhostHunter]

This is true Dexter, however it leaves Hearts extremely vulnerable to institutional risk should the solvency or even the ownership of UBIG/ Ukio Bankas change.

 

But, explain UBIG now capitalising on the debt ?

 

Surely that proves that we are "safe" in the long term ?

 

Cant remember the exact wording used, I'll try and find it....

[portobellojambo1]

Does it not benefit VR/UBIG for Hearts to be in large amounts of debt ?

 

Do they not get a ridiculous amount of tax rebates back from the Lithuanian government for companies debt that is non-lithuanian ?

 

Would make sense then for the Hearts debt to high.

 

Plus, with UBIG capitalising on the debt levels this year, it shows long term commitment to the club....

 

And, a debt is only a debt (in reality) when it's called in

 

It is indeed Dex., it is only a debt, nothing worth worrying about at this point. Even if it suddenly jumps from whatever it is at the moment, think it is being reported as ?36.25 million to a revised figure of ?87.25 million, we have nothing to worry about. It is all part of a huge plan to make us, to make us, to make us, OK, it is all part of a huge plan.

[paulyjambo]

So how much are we actually in debt?

[Charlie-Brown]

So who did we buy for ?4 million, yes ?4 million quid?????

 

 

It could be 4 players transferred over at ?950K or 5 players at ?750K or 6 players at ?630K .....

[awadooningorgie2]

So we should all thank them for spending ?22 million pounds, generating a loss of ?12.447 million.....

 

Aye, it may be paper trails but it is still going against the name of my club.

 

And for hee-haw.

 

How the hell have wages gone up - we shed some of the higher earners.

 

Seems like it's name a number what we pay Kaunas.

[Guest GhostHunter]

It is indeed Dex., it is only a debt, nothing worth worrying about at this point. Even if it suddenly jumps from whatever it is at the moment, think it is being reported as ?36.25 million to a revised figure of ?87.25 million, we have nothing to worry about. It is all part of a huge plan to make us, to make us, to make us, OK, it is all part of a huge plan.

 

Oooh - no need for the sarcasm

 

I'm not saying I'm NOT concerned, because I am, but there's no hint of UBIG actually calling in the debt, is there ?

 

They seem to have a grand plan to get us out of the "debt" - just wish they would clarify more.

[awadooningorgie2]

It could be 4 players transferred over at ?950K or 5 players at ?750K or 6 players at ?630K .....

 

 

I would love a breakdown of how we spent over ?22 million please. Even some kind of serious attempt to justify this.

[cylawny]

Three things stand out:

 

1. Losses for the year: ?12.45 million - we spent ?22.071 million and brought in ?10.319 million.

 

2. Staff costs ?12.488 million - BUT in addition to this - ?3.822 million to 'acquire' player registrations.....WTF??????

 

3. Prior year adjustment - for the previous years accounts an adjustment where the club was retrospectively charged ?486,000 for players loaned from other clubs, meaning the loss the previosu year was actually half a million higher.

 

Seems clear to me that money/debt is being poured through UBIG and Kaunas - loaned to Hearts and stacked on our debt.

 

Something stinks to high heaven.

 

So what is the total debt ?

 

Is it 36 , 38 or 40 Million. We were 27 Million last year.

 

p.s.

 

How much was paid to Ukio Bankas ?

 

p.p.s.

 

One of our renowned posters said a couple of weeks ago that the figures would be much better than forecast.

[Martin_T]

But, explain UBIG now capitalising on the debt ?

 

Surely that proves that we are "safe" in the long term ?

 

Cant remember the exact wording used, I'll try and find it....

 

I think the plan is the convert the recent losses in terms of short term debt into shares. Whether this plan comes to fruition is a different stories.

 

Vlad/ Ubig seem to specialise in grandiose plans, which certainly in terms of their major building projects (St Andrews Sq, New Ripo stadium in Belarus, New Tynecastle), take an age in the planning stage. In fact none of these projects have at time of writing broken ground on any development. It is uncertain if they have ever managed to complete a project, although someone did once provide me with a link to an ice hockey stadium they had finished.

[awadooningorgie2]

I reckon they have filled their boots - squeezed ?10 million extra loans in the one year.

 

All will be rectified from now going forwards blah blah blah.

 

The inistence on loans from Kaunas and excessively high squad never did add up. Mind you, neither did VR's involvement in the first place.

 

I'm not a stirrer normally but how anyone can fail to be astonished at what is happening is beyond me. I actually thought we may break even that year - reuced wage bill, no big signings and increased turnover.

 

Sorry guys, we have been had.

[Martin_T]

looks familiar, alledgedly

 

I appreciate you are making a joke mate, but that is a very serious allegation that could see JKB in deep do do unless proven. I would suggest to the admin team that this be deleted...

[Mr Quagmire]

This is true Dexter, however it leaves Hearts extremely vulnerable to institutional risk should the solvency or even the ownership of UBIG/ Ukio Bankas change.

 

that wont happen.

[cylawny]

I reckon they have filled their boots - squeezed ?10 million extra loans in the one year.

 

All will be rectified from now going forwards blah blah blah.

 

The inistence on loans from Kaunas and excessively high squad never did add up. Mind you, neither did VR's involvement in the first place.

 

I'm not a stirrer normally but how anyone can fail to be astonished at what is happening is beyond me. I actually thought we may break even that year - reuced wage bill, no big signings and increased turnover.

 

Sorry guys, we have been had.

 

 

Aye that's obvious to all but the most deluded ( or paid ).

 

Anyway what's the total debt at ?

[Guest casper]

Oooh - no need for the sarcasm

 

I'm not saying I'm NOT concerned, because I am, but there's no hint of UBIG actually calling in the debt, is there ?

 

They seem to have a grand plan to get us out of the "debt" - just wish they would clarify more.

 

I don't think we'll get a hint.

It'll just happen one day.

Lights out. Goodbye.

[Martin_T]

that wont happen.

 

 

Err if it can happen to major British and American companies such as Northern Rock and Bear Stearns, it can sure as hell happen to a the 4th biggest bank in Lithuania.

[Guest GhostHunter]

I appreciate you are making a joke mate, but that is a very serious allegation that could see JKB in deep do do unless proven. I would suggest to the admin team that this be deleted...

 

Done.

 

Sorry, I missed that !

[Dirk Diggler]

I actually thought we may break even that year.

 

You've definately been had.

 

[awadooningorgie2]

So what is the total debt ?

 

Is it 36 , 38 or 40 Million. We were 27 Million last year.

 

p.s.

 

How much was paid to Ukio Bankas ?

 

p.p.s.

 

One of our renowned posters said a couple of weeks ago that the figures would be much better than forecast.

 

 

Net debt is shown as 36.249 million vs 28,405 the year before. - something I can't figure out given the operating loss. Maybe someone who is an accountant can work that out?

[Mr Quagmire]

Does it not benefit VR/UBIG for Hearts to be in large amounts of debt ?

 

Do they not get a ridiculous amount of tax rebates back from the Lithuanian government for companies debt that is non-lithuanian ?

 

Would make sense then for the Hearts debt to high.

 

Plus, with UBIG capitalising on the debt levels this year, it shows long term commitment to the club....

 

And, a debt is only a debt (in reality) when it's called in

Correct Dex.

 

Some people on here would be happier if we were 28 million in debt with no stand development or maybe not even playing in gorgie, or worse.

 

I know we are pash on the field for the investment put in, i am sure this will change when the manager is brought in.

 

What's a good few million when hearts are part of the same company as the bank. You need to invest to make money and we could not get a loan like this from ANY INVESTOR.

[OBE]

Debt only becomes a pain in the erse when it becomes unmanageable...let them manage it!

[Dirk Diggler]

Correct Dex.

 

Some people on here would be happier if we were 28 million in debt with no stand development or maybe not even playing in gorgie, or worse.

 

I know we are pash on the field for the investment put in, i am sure this will change when the manager is brought in.

 

What's a good few million when hearts are part of the same company as the bank. You need to invest to make money and we could not get a loan like this from ANY INVESTOR.

 

Careful.

 

Optimism isn't the theme currently running on JKB and especially not on this thread.

[cylawny]

Net debt is shown as 36.249 million vs 28,405 the year before. - something I can't figure out given the operating loss. Maybe someone who is an accountant can work that out?

 

 

Eh I think I will wait till the postie arrives.

 

So the operating loss for the year is less than ?8 Million and not the ?13 Million you mentioned earlier. :confused:

[Guest GhostHunter]

Eh I think I will wait till the postie arrives.

 

So the operating loss for the year is less than ?8 Million and not the ?13 Million you mentioned earlier. :confused:

 

well spotted

 

[vegas-voss]

Happy talkin', talkin Happy talk

Talk about things you'd like to do

You've got to have a dream

If you don't have a dream

How you gonna have a dream come true

 

Vlad,UBIG/UKIO nutters the ****ing lot of them

[awadooningorgie2]

Correct Dex.

 

Some people on here would be happier if we were 28 million in debt with no stand development or maybe not even playing in gorgie, or worse.

 

I know we are pash on the field for the investment put in, i am sure this will change when the manager is brought in.

 

What's a good few million when hearts are part of the same company as the bank. You need to invest to make money and we could not get a loan like this from ANY INVESTOR.

 

Would agree 100% if any of it had been invested in land/buildings/even players that can be sold at a profit.

[Martin_T]

Correct Dex.

 

Some people on here would be happier if we were 28 million in debt with no stand development or maybe not even playing in gorgie, or worse.

 

I know we are pash on the field for the investment put in, i am sure this will change when the manager is brought in.

 

What's a good few million when hearts are part of the same company as the bank. You need to invest to make money and we could not get a loan like this from ANY INVESTOR.

 

Surely this depends on the resources available to the manager brought in? It's a sad and un-changeable fact of the Romanov era, that if the levels of investment poured in to the playing staff had been made available to a competent manager (such as a Burley or a Levein), we may well have had Champions League income in the past two seasons to balance the books.

 

When Hearts debt amounts to around a 9th of Ubig's Turnover of 392 Million Euros (equates to around 326 million pounds at current exchange rates), it is not a healthy situation. To give you an idea of how small UBIG is in banking terms, my employer made a profit of 1.6 billion dollars this quarter and that was down 40 odd percent on the same period last year.

[blairdin]

I reckon they have filled their boots - squeezed ?10 million extra loans in the one year.

 

All will be rectified from now going forwards blah blah blah.

 

The inistence on loans from Kaunas and excessively high squad never did add up. Mind you, neither did VR's involvement in the first place.

 

I'm not a stirrer normally but how anyone can fail to be astonished at what is happening is beyond me. I actually thought we may break even that year - reuced wage bill, no big signings and increased turnover.

 

Sorry guys, we have been had.

 

I've not seen the accounts, but am I not right in saying they are for the year to 31 July 2007. So they won't include the Gordon fee and the (coming?) Bednar fee. We'll also have fees for Pospisil and Velicka in the next accounting period.

 

We know we were big spenders to 31 July 2007 so I don't think some of the figures being banded around here should be a surprise.

 

So no, I don't think I've been had.

 

I'm slightly more uneasy with the debt now than I was 2 months ago, but that's more to do with the global banking situation as opposed to anything UBIG have recently done.

 

The debt will increase when the new stand is built but in absence of viable alternatives we just have to take a leap of faith and let UBIG press ahead.

[letsmakesomenoise]

So who did we buy for ?4 million, yes ?4 million quid?????

 

Well, for a start off the top of my head:

 

Rudi for ?600k (approx)

The Bullet for ?850k

Bambi on ice for ?800k

Makela for ?400k

 

plus assorted others...............

 

Buts thats ?2.7m to be going on with

[awadooningorgie2]

Eh I think I will wait till the postie arrives.

 

So the operating loss for the year is less than ?8 Million and not the ?13 Million you mentioned earlier. :confused:

 

OK - go to page 13 - spending vs income is as I have stated. The difference lies in cash inflow from debt, increase in cash in year and other items. Would welcome an explanation.

 

Still doesn't explain however where that kind of money is going on wages, fees etc. Don;t fall for the leaked ?38 million = ?36 million is OK stuff.

[awadooningorgie2]

Well, for a start off the top of my head:

 

Rudi for ?600k (approx)

The Bullet for ?850k

Bambi on ice for ?800k

Makela for ?400k

 

plus assorted others...............

 

Buts thats ?2.7m to be going on with

 

Bullet, Bambi, Makela all jan 2006 so previous years accounts. Interestingly there is only Hartley incoming transfer money - expected the ?1.6 million for Skacel to be included too?

[Guest GhostHunter]

Bullet, Bambi, Makela all jan 2006 so previous years accounts. Interestingly there is only Hartley incoming transfer money - expected the ?1.6 million for Skacel to be included too?

 

Have they listed the outgoing transfers ?

[Charlie-Brown]

Bullet, Bambi, Makela all jan 2006 so previous years accounts. Interestingly there is only Hartley incoming transfer money - expected the ?1.6 million for Skacel to be included too?

 

Almost ?1M profit on the sale of Skacel was included in last years accounts.

[awadooningorgie2]

Have they listed the outgoing transfers ?

 

Yes - gain on sale of players registrations 1.120 million, due in main to the sales of Paul Hartely it states in Directors Report.

[Peebo]

Well, for a start off the top of my head:

 

Rudi for ?600k (approx)

The Bullet for ?850k

Bambi on ice for ?800k

Makela for ?400k

 

plus assorted others...............

 

Buts thats ?2.7m to be going on with

 

They signed during the 2005/06 accounting period, apparently.

[Peebo]

Net debt is shown as 36.249 million vs 28,405 the year before. - something I can't figure out given the operating loss. Maybe someone who is an accountant can work that out?

 

In general terms, it is quite possbile to make a profit and debt rise, or make a loss and debt remain at similar levels.

[awadooningorgie2]

Almost ?1M profit on the sale of Skacel was included in last years accounts.

 

 

OK - 1.041 million in 2006 accounts is this.

 

But who have we bought for ?4 million and why have we spent an extra ?2 million on wages? That is a ?6 million gap I cannot compehend. Kingston and Pinilla? You would think Heartsmight let us know if we are making record breaking transfers......

[Guest GhostHunter]

OK - 1.041 million in 2006 accounts is this.

 

But who have we bought for ?4 million and why have we spent an extra ?2 million on wages? That is a ?6 million gap I cannot compehend. Kingston and Pinilla? You would think Heartsmight let us know if we are making record breaking transfers......

 

We dont know how much we paid for Bednar, or Jose from Kaunas.

 

We also dont know if Velicka, Miko and Chesney feature in this, given the latter 2 apparantly now are on Hearts contracts...

 

So much for the transparency....

[awadooningorgie2]

In general terms, it is quite possbile to make a profit and debt rise, or make a loss and debt remain at similar levels.

 

 

This seems to be what has happened. I flew off on one one upon reading the profit and loss account on page 9. Seems black and white but obviously not....would really like an explanation however.

[awadooningorgie2]

We dont know how much we paid for Bednar, or Jose from Kaunas.

 

We also dont know if Velicka, Miko and Chesney feature in this, given the latter 2 apparantly now are on Hearts contracts...

 

So much for the transparency....

 

Exactly - have we paid ?2.5 million to Kaunas for Bednar's contract perhaps? Velicka obviously not.

 

Problem is, anything could be going on and there is no way of knowing what these huge sums equate to. It is like a blank chequebook to lend us money and charge us what they want for players or services. Hearts debt rises - accept we may never need to repay it but would rather, if you don;t mind, this was not happening.

 

Let's face it, what would you expect from a club that spent ?12 million on wages and ?4 million on trasfers. Not what we witnessed for sure.

[Charlie-Brown]

OK - 1.041 million in 2006 accounts is this.

 

But who have we bought for ?4 million and why have we spent an extra ?2 million on wages? That is a ?6 million gap I cannot compehend. Kingston and Pinilla? You would think Heartsmight let us know if we are making record breaking transfers......

 

Goncalves, Bednar & Aguiar all transferred from FBK to HMFC - at what cost and who paid their original transfer & signing fee's is uncertain - as is whether any other players like Miko or Chesney have actually been transferred over.

[BeeGee]

"The company incurred a net loss of ?12,447,000 during the year ended 31 July 2007, and at that date, the company's liabilities exceeded its total assets by ?24,891,000. These conditions, along with the other matters explained in Note 1 to the financial statements, indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast significant doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern."

 

Independent auditor's report to shareholders

25th March 2008