Is this what's wrong with Scottish football?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just looked at the Templeton threadand reminded me of a conversation I had with a youth coach last week after the Falkirk game. We were talking about our youth system and the quality in it. I asked how they go about selecting at 10/11 year old. Almost always, was the reply, on height and stature. They believe the footballing ability can be coached into the laddies. If you are small but tremendously talented and can handle the footballing basics you are really up against it. I was not overly surprised by this and it's not just Hearts but the entire SPL are looking for size not skill levels from the get go.

 

This is where the game requires a root and branch rethink in my opinion if we are ever to compete in Europe and the International stage. Look at Croatia. Yes we got a draw but they always looked like they move up at least 1 gear but right throughout the team they displayed complete control of the basics.

 

How can we as fans pressure the powers that be to change the thinking?

[Charlie-Brown]

Get involved in youth football - make a difference.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

if we are ever to compete in Europe and the International stage.

 

Whilst I don't disagree with some of the principals you talk about, I think it should be noted we (Scotland) are punching massively above our weight right now, and have done throughout a lot of our history.

 

For a country the size of ours, to be ranked so highly in European and world terms, is a massive acheivement. We should not be so hard on ourselves.

 

UEFA Rankings - we're currently 10th.

 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html

 

Fifa Rankings - 15th?

 

Taking into account country populations - We outperform almost all countries of our size.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

 

So for all the suggestions that we could do better - we ain't as bad as all that.

[DETTY29]

Just looked at the Templeton threadand reminded me of a conversation I had with a youth coach last week after the Falkirk game. We were talking about our youth system and the quality in it. I asked how they go about selecting at 10/11 year old. Almost always, was the reply, on height and stature. They believe the footballing ability can be coached into the laddies. If you are small but tremendously talented and can handle the footballing basics you are really up against it. I was not overly surprised by this and it's not just Hearts but the entire SPL are looking for size not skill levels from the get go.

 

This is where the game requires a root and branch rethink in my opinion if we are ever to compete in Europe and the International stage. Look at Croatia. Yes we got a draw but they always looked like they move up at least 1 gear but right throughout the team they displayed complete control of the basics.

 

How can we as fans pressure the powers that be to change the thinking?

 

 

The Croats looked a big strong physical but also highly talented team to me.

[the doomed]

I played youth football up to reserve level in the SPL and Hearts have been the same for years - big, physical boys with less relative skill. Surely this must be changing since the introduction or Riccarton?

[topcat]

Being big and strong is obviously an advantage but growth rates around that age are sporadic. I'm a tall adult now but I was a giant compared to my primary school classmates and I know several people who were very diminutive into their teens only to catch up later.

 

There's a certain short-termism inherent to selecting the bigger 11 year old ahead of his more skillfull classmate who has a lot more of his growing to do. It may well improve your chances of winning the next Under 12 championship but at the expence of producing a better 18 yearold player.

[hawaii]

Did anyone see Milne last weekend?

 

He wasn't that size when he played fullback for Hearts was he?

 

Looked like he could do a job across the road with Scott Murray!!!

[jamboinglasgow]

Get involved in youth football - make a difference.

 

Had an idea a few weeks ago of what I would do if I became very wealthy (talking about hundreds of millions.) I would set up the Scottish school of footballing excellence. Basicly a major academy that would be unique as it is also be a school so that students at it would gain a decent education and be able to maximise their footballing development. It would be funded mainly by me but kept afloat with players being sold onto teams via a single transfer and/or percentage of next transfer fee.

 

Anyway, there would be ideals set out from the begining that would be central to the academy:

 

1) development before results and tropheys

2) to provide an top quality education

3) admission is on abilty before strength and size.

4) all profit goes back into the academy.

 

 

that would probably never happen and I dont think I have what it takes for coaching but would love to get involved with youth football. Do have the idea of player development before results but think I wouldn't be allowed to go this way due to parents/clubs.

 

If anyone wants to know more of my idea about a major acdemy/school for scotland just ask.

[Seymour M Hersh]

The Croats looked a big strong physical but also highly talented team to me.

 

That is my point. Yes they have the big guys but they are also talented footballers where our big guys are cart horses.

[Charlie-Brown]

Glen Hoddle is starting a football academy for players who get released from major (English) clubs to work on their abilities to get them back in the game at a high level. He believes UK clubs write off years of previous youth development far too early in players careers and not all kids develop at the same age or rate - he believes deciding at 17-19 is premature.

 

There are also some football academies now being run on a for profit basis who will develop kids abilities for progress to football clubs.

http://www.moorlandschool.co.uk/football/index.htm

[Seymour M Hersh]

Whilst I don't disagree with some of the principals you talk about, I think it should be noted we (Scotland) are punching massively above our weight right now, and have done throughout a lot of our history.

 

For a country the size of ours, to be ranked so highly in European and world terms, is a massive acheivement. We should not be so hard on ourselves.

 

UEFA Rankings - we're currently 10th.

 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html

 

Fifa Rankings - 15th?

 

Taking into account country populations - We outperform almost all countries of our size.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

 

So for all the suggestions that we could do better - we ain't as bad as all that.

 

 

Personally I take these rankings with a cellar of salt.

 

JR we as a country are now in the longest drought of getting to major championships since the 50's.

 

We as a country play a very un-entertaining brand of football (both at club level and internationally). All the statistics in the world don't paint a rosy picture (imho).

 

Look at the Georgia game under McLeish. Got battered by 19 year olds. Am I correct in thinking NI humped them mid week.

 

As for size of country 5 million of us but there are a lot of other countries of a similar size producing far superior footballers than us. When was the last time Scotland produced a genuinely top top player?

[Seymour M Hersh]

I played youth football up to reserve level in the SPL and Hearts have been the same for years - big, physical boys with less relative skill. Surely this must be changing since the introduction or Riccarton?

 

Thing is it's not just Hearts but every team in Scotland (well the SPL) according to my mate.

[jamboinglasgow]

Glen Hoddle is starting a football academy for players who get released from major (English) clubs to work on their abilities to get them back in the game at a high level. He believes UK clubs write off years of previous youth development far too early in players careers and not all kids develop at the same age or rate - he believes deciding at 17-19 is premature.

 

There are also some football academies now being run on a for profit basis who will develop kids abilities for progress to football clubs.

http://www.moorlandschool.co.uk/football/index.htm

 

heard about hoddles new academy a few weeks ago and think he is right to do that.

 

Still think my idea could be great for scottish football and it doesn't belittle other teams efforts as extra competition increases clubs efforts. Would love the idea of it becoming the premier place for youth development in Scotland (with a special cut price deal for hearts ) also could run a coaching school as part of it for new coaches to gain greater talent and even with special dispensation from UEFA be allowed to give them pro-lisecences after an extensive course.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Had an idea a few weeks ago of what I would do if I became very wealthy (talking about hundreds of millions.) I would set up the Scottish school of footballing excellence. Basicly a major academy that would be unique as it is also be a school so that students at it would gain a decent education and be able to maximise their footballing development. It would be funded mainly by me but kept afloat with players being sold onto teams via a single transfer and/or percentage of next transfer fee.

 

Anyway, there would be ideals set out from the begining that would be central to the academy:

 

1) development before results and tropheys

2) to provide an top quality education

3) admission is on abilty before strength and size.

4) all profit goes back into the academy.

 

 

that would probably never happen and I dont think I have what it takes for coaching but would love to get involved with youth football. Do have the idea of player development before results but think I wouldn't be allowed to go this way due to parents/clubs.

 

If anyone wants to know more of my idea about a major acdemy/school for scotland just ask.

 

Very laudable JIG. The training the youngsters get at the Academy is very good and very skills based. My gripe is that the really talented boys with bags of natural ability are missing out on the great training as they don't match the physical brief. After all as the saying goes you can take a horse to water but.......

 

My nephew is playing for the under 12's and only just made it in a year ago cause he is little. However 2 really good feet. Quick and scores for fun. He has come on leaps and bounds at Hearts and is one of the best in his team. Unfortunately he is away on holiday with his mum & dad so will miss being able to show you all tomorrow at half-time.

[Pete Seeger]

I was expecting to open this page and see a massive list. But I would agree youth football and sport in general needs to be looked at in this country. There is not enough funding for sport.

[Pete Seeger]

Very laudable JIG. The training the youngsters get at the Academy is very good and very skills based. My gripe is that the really talented boys with bags of natural ability are missing out on the great training as they don't match the physical brief. After all as the saying goes you can take a horse to water but.......

 

My nephew is playing for the under 12's and only just made it in a year ago cause he is little. However 2 really good feet. Quick and scores for fun. He has come on leaps and bounds at Hearts and is one of the best in his team. Unfortunately he is away on holiday with his mum & dad so will miss being able to show you all tomorrow at half-time.

 

I've been pleasantly surprised by the young boys playing at half time recently. Last weeks kids looked to be playing to a very good standard for their age.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Personally I take these rankings with a cellar of salt.

 

JR we as a country are now in the longest drought of getting to major championships since the 50's.

 

IMO, A country our size shouldn't be expecting to be in the top 16 or 24 countries regularly. We were and are punching above our weight in doing so.

 

We as a country play a very un-entertaining brand of football (both at club level and internationally). All the statistics in the world don't paint a rosy picture (imho).

 

Agree to an extent. But then again, our friendly against Croatia was one of the best friendly matches I've seen in a long time.

 

Look at the Georgia game under McLeish. Got battered by 19 year olds. Am I correct in thinking NI humped them mid week.

 

One game. A game too far at the time for our squad.

 

As for size of country 5 million of us but there are a lot of other countries of a similar size producing far superior footballers than us.

Such as?

When was the last time Scotland produced a genuinely top top player?

 

Craig Gordon?

 

Allan Hutton?

 

Whatever else you may have thought of us v Croatia, they are a top side, and just as they were able to keep it from us, we were actually able to keep the ball from them at times. A major step forward for Scotland that.

 

As I said at the start, I do agree that in principal we should work more on skill etc at youth levels. I feel clubs are already doing that though and we're beginning to see the benefits come through.

 

And, we should not forget our "hard work" ethic either. It goes a long way in football - just as far as skill does.

[Charlie-Brown]

I've been pleasantly surprised by the young boys playing at half time recently. Last weeks kids looked to be playing to a very good standard for their age.

 

The encouraging things is that the kids last week actually made passes to each other and put some thought into what they were doing rather than simply looking to always run with the ball or boot it upfield and all chase after it - as kids under 10 might be expected to do.

[Pete Seeger]

The encouraging things is that the kids last week actually made passes to each other and put some thought into what they were doing rather than simply looking to always run with the ball or boot it upfield and all chase after it - as kids under 10 might be expected to do.

 

They were making some good through balls, communicating well and they we're mainly sticking to their positions. Basically they did the basics better than our first team. Anyone know how the young guys get on their league? Who's the best youth side?

[Guest JamboRobbo]

The encouraging things is that the kids last week actually made passes to each other and put some thought into what they were doing rather than simply looking to always run with the ball or boot it upfield and all chase after it - as kids under 10 might be expected to do.

 

Agreed. Two feet, turning either way. Looking to pass the ball. Was a joy to watch.

[Darren]

When was the last time Scotland produced a genuinely top top player?

 

Craig Gordon.

 

Who, incidentally, was almost chucked by Hearts aged 16 for being too small.

 

It's scandalous.

[Ryan Gosling]

Craig Gordon.

 

Who, incidentally, was almost chucked by Hearts aged 16 for being too small.

 

It's scandalous.

 

Same thing nearly happened to David Beckham.

 

Not at Hearts though.

[Uberjambo]

Whilst I don't disagree with some of the principals you talk about, I think it should be noted we (Scotland) are punching massively above our weight right now, and have done throughout a lot of our history.

 

For a country the size of ours, to be ranked so highly in European and world terms, is a massive acheivement. We should not be so hard on ourselves.

 

UEFA Rankings - we're currently 10th.

 

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method3/crank2008.html

 

Fifa Rankings - 15th?

 

Taking into account country populations - We outperform almost all countries of our size.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

 

So for all the suggestions that we could do better - we ain't as bad as all that.

 

I don't hold much sway in the rankings but how do you explain Holland, Denmark etc, smaller or equal in size and stature, but with a good football pedigree.

[jamboinglasgow]

Very laudable JIG. The training the youngsters get at the Academy is very good and very skills based. My gripe is that the really talented boys with bags of natural ability are missing out on the great training as they don't match the physical brief. After all as the saying goes you can take a horse to water but.......

 

My nephew is playing for the under 12's and only just made it in a year ago cause he is little. However 2 really good feet. Quick and scores for fun. He has come on leaps and bounds at Hearts and is one of the best in his team. Unfortunately he is away on holiday with his mum & dad so will miss being able to show you all tomorrow at half-time.

 

thanks seymour. I think the major clubs are changing what they are looking for in the youngsters from strengh and height to genuine talent but I think the problem is the wider clubs are not really changing enough. This is why I am annoyed at people who keep saying things like "but the scottish game is tough big game, we need strong players." Well if that was the case how come european teams waltz round our players and continully show us up in european competitions. If we bring through youngsters who main assest is talent rather than height and allow them to play to their strenghs then the game will change.

 

I think people who say templeton should gain an extra stone may be over stating that need, if you are fast and tricky you can get around big defenders.

 

As someone said, kids develop at different stages height wise, the best example I have is my brother, he was always about medium in height though there is a picture of him at 15 where he is one of the smallest in his class. Then after he grew at a crazy rate and now he is 6'5", you dont know what a child is going to do when they are 8+ so it is better to look at their feet and skills with the ball then their size.

 

I think what needs to be done is to improve coaches and standards of coaching. If you teach youth coaches to look for ball skills before size then they should hopefully pick these guys. Think hearts should discuss with Heriot -Watt the possibilty of setting up a course in football coaching, that way their can be an improved standard and Hearts can benefit from better coaches if any show promise. Even if there is a shorter course or an evening course for coaches of boys teams to help raise standard in Scotland.

 

Good to hear you nephew is doing well in Hearts under 12's, and that his talent was reconised. Think I saw the Under 12's training and playing a game a month ago when the U19's played motherwell though it could of been the U14s. Hopefully he will continue his development to become a senior hearts player. My nephew is a bit too young at the age of two but he loves any ball he can kick and have when he plays with a football he seems to do alrite though sadly due to where he lives think he would most likely join Aberdeens youth, but thats many years away if it does happen.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I don't hold much sway in the rankings but how do you explain Holland, Denmark etc, smaller or equal in size and stature, but with a good football pedigree.

 

for a start, holland has population of 15-16M to our 5M.

 

Denmark is a fairer comparison. What makes you say that Denmark have any better football pedigree than us? MAybe I'm missing something, but I don't see it.

 

They got lucky and won a EURO championship once. A Euro championship they hadn't even qualified for.

 

Other than that. What pedigree are you talking of?

[Uberjambo]

for a start, holland has population of 15-16M to our 5M.

 

Denmark is a fairer comparison. What makes you say that Denmark have any better football pedigree than us? MAybe I'm missing something, but I don't see it.

 

They got lucky and won a EURO championship once. A Euro championship they hadn't even qualified for.

 

Other than that. What pedigree are you talking of?

 

My bad. Got the Dutch capped at 5-6. Still not a huge country though. Croatia has less than us also. I remember Denmark as having a good team for quite a while now. You could be right though, I keep thinking Laudrup. My point is there is something far wrong when these countries bring on really talented players. What is the best we have produced , skill wise recently? The Crab!!!!

[washniklaw]

Although lots of people give Andy Roxburgh a hard time, he was saying exactly the same things 20 years ago. Maybe that why he's so high up in Uefa?

 

One of the key things a sport pyschologist will say is that the result doesn't matter untill 19 - 20 years of age. Development is key, people grow and skills build at different rates.

 

If a small 12 year old is never in the team because he gets bullied off the ball it effects his confidence to perform. He is therfore put off the sport and doesn't continue into later life.

 

More often than not, the best 12 year olds are not the best players at 25 years of age. Why is that?...... Because the smaller player continues to develop skills to compensate for their lack of physical height and strength. When strength/height start to develop they have a far wider range of skills to the players that relied on the physical advantage when younger.

 

This is why we have to drop the competitive side of youth sports in this country. Kids know if their doing well and will always want to impress, but if we can facilitate the oppurtunities for the late blummers we will have far better finished articles.

 

DEVELOPMENT AND MASTERY OF SKILLS IS KEY/ results should be ignored!

[leginten]

I'm not condoning the ditching of small players at a premature age, but in a way I can almost understand the desire to bring large specimens through the ranks. I always used to be astonished, when watching pre-season friendlies against top English teams at Tynecastle and frequently when watching our national team line up against continental teams, at the fact that our guys were so much smaller, and in many cases skinnier, than the opposition.

I suppose the galling thing is that the continental players by and large have technique to complement their size.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

My bad. Got the Dutch capped at 5-6. Still not a huge country though. Croatia has less than us also. I remember Denmark as having a good team for quite a while now. You could be right though, I keep thinking Laudrup. My point is there is something far wrong when these countries bring on really talented players. What is the best we have produced , skill wise recently? The Crab!!!!

 

Fair enough mate. I don't disagree Denmark have done ok and Holland are better than us.

 

I just think expectations are so high for scotland that we are very down on our team. For a country our size, there are few who achieve as much as us and plenty who achieve a lot less.....

[269miles]

I've loved reading this thread - especially as a father whose son was spotted at an early age , played for a Championship Centre of Excellence team , was offered trials by P Vale , Wolves & Sheff Utd amongst others. Ultimately , it all fell down because coaches were more interested in results. Talented players would be left on the sidelines while 'javelin throwers' were played regularly as they could hoof the ball 50 yds. In saying that I recognise the chances of my own ever making it as a pro were very slim : but made slimmer by the way coaches work.

 

in my case ., I was given a report card from the 'Centre of Excellence' , forever known in our house as the 'Centre of Excrement' which said that my son needed to improve his heading ability blah blah. I wrote back to the 'centre' and asked how THEY were addressing this , how could he reasonably improve if he could only play once a week (he was banned from playing with his old team mates) and also pointed out that he was by far the smallest player in the squad. I also suggested that he might (should) be played a la Colin Cameron as he was very skilfull and had a great engine

( regularly won medals at cross country against bigger lads). Needless to say I was treated like an interfering idiot and my son eventually left the 'centre' completely disillusioned.

 

So what did I learn from this.

I decided to take up the chance to manage an U17/U18 team. Everyone is selected on ability only. last night we played a pub team (most players in their early 20s and pretty fit) with only a squad of 12 players , 2 of whom were only 16, 4 were only 17. We have only two players who are anywhere near 6 feet tall and we don't have a proper goalkeeper.We won by a country mile. We regularly play a local university college team : we have not lost to them in 2 seasons.

Regardless of stature , skill & fitness pays. You just have to be patient.

 

Edit : the head scout knew who Mickey was , being a Hearts man from prestompans originally.

[Peebo]

That is my point. Yes they have the big guys but they are also talented footballers where our big guys are cart horses.

 

Just think how skillful they short-erse Croats must be...

[Peebo]

I decided to take up the chance to manage an U17/U18 team. Everyone is selected on ability only. last night we played a pub team (most players in their early 20s and pretty fit) with only a squad of 12 players , 2 of whom were only 16, 4 were only 17. We have only two players who are anywhere near 6 feet tall and we don't have a proper goalkeeper.We won by a country mile. We regularly play a local university college team : we have not lost to them in 2 seasons.

Regardless of stature , skill & fitness pays. You just have to be patient.

 

How does your team perform against teams in a similar age group? Does it play in a league?

[Del1812]

The thing that ****es me off is that in this country 9/10 coaches are more interested in winning and boosting their own ego as opposed to improving the players - or coaching, as you will. I only played for a couple of bad federation teams but the coaches I had were exactly like this and I haven't come across many who are different.

 

With regards to the physical aspect, it's just what the game in this country (Britain) is like and will stay that way for a long time unless attitudes are changed. For all the praise that the Lampard's and Gerrard's get for being great footballers, that entire team was vastly outplayed by a Croatian team that were just so much better than they were technically. The only time England caused them problems was through strength, height or speed.

 

We share the same mindset as England and it is something that should be changed. Results may not improve but why should it matter, talent should decide what footballers make it and little else. Plus football in this country would be a whole lot better to watch.

[red21]

Problem lies with the coaches in my experience. There is very little fun involved for the kids, it's all about results.

 

You have teams as young as 5/6 year olds being coached by people only interested in the score at the end of the game. Players with less ability at this young age are usually left on the sidelines for most games - mean they will never get the chance to improve - those with more obvious ability get match time because coaches know there's more chance of winning by playing these kids.

 

The SFA coaching badge (for early years) basically involves turing up for a few hours at a sports centre - very little people or footballing skills required. Not sure if anyone ever gets failed?

[lost in leith]

Surely it is easier to find a young lad with talent and improve his physical condition than it is to find a great athlete and teach him how to play football?

 

I agree with previous posters who suggest that there is too much emphasis in youth football on winning trophies, rather than developing players for the future.

[Spellczech]

When I was 12 I was one of the smaller guys in my year at school. By the time I was 16 I was average height and several of the guys who had been amongst the tallest at 12 were now amongst the smallest. Bonkers policy.

[DemonCleaner]

there was a series of articles in four four two a while back talking about this. Most continental countries and so fourth concentrate on skills and technique, but as said here, we rely on physical presence.

 

they also don't lumber a child with one set position making them play everywhere for a few years before deciding where they play best. when i was younger you got a position and that was that.

 

they don't play competative games until they are older aswell u14/15 if i remember corectly.

 

something i noticed when the kids were playing last week was the size of the ball. there was a wee blonde lad and it looked from where i was as though the ball was the same size as him, we should be getting kids to play futsal (the ball is smaller and doesn't bounce as much so technique and skills can be taught easier) like the brazilians/spanish/everyone else

 

also quite often perents mindset needs changing or they need banned from whatching the games or something (maybe a bit over the top) but when i wa a kid playing you hear parents screaming and swearing at the kids telling them to go in for hard tackles etc. does no good what so ever.

[loveofthegame]

Just looked at the Templeton threadand reminded me of a conversation I had with a youth coach last week after the Falkirk game. We were talking about our youth system and the quality in it. I asked how they go about selecting at 10/11 year old. Almost always, was the reply, on height and stature. They believe the footballing ability can be coached into the laddies. If you are small but tremendously talented and can handle the footballing basics you are really up against it. I was not overly surprised by this and it's not just Hearts but the entire SPL are looking for size not skill levels from the get go.

 

This is where the game requires a root and branch rethink in my opinion if we are ever to compete in Europe and the International stage. Look at Croatia. Yes we got a draw but they always looked like they move up at least 1 gear but right throughout the team they displayed complete control of the basics.

 

How can we as fans pressure the powers that be to change the thinking?

 

 

If it cheers you up my little cousin is 1 of the smallest guys you'll see and 1 of top rated in our under 9s.

 

But in general i know where you're coming from. Its the way its always been in Scotland. If you're big early then you have more chance of early success. Scottish clubs dont look past this

[jamboinglasgow]

there was a series of articles in four four two a while back talking about this. Most continental countries and so fourth concentrate on skills and technique, but as said here, we rely on physical presence.

 

they also don't lumber a child with one set position making them play everywhere for a few years before deciding where they play best. when i was younger you got a position and that was that.

 

they don't play competative games until they are older aswell u14/15 if i remember corectly.

 

something i noticed when the kids were playing last week was the size of the ball. there was a wee blonde lad and it looked from where i was as though the ball was the same size as him, we should be getting kids to play futsal (the ball is smaller and doesn't bounce as much so technique and skills can be taught easier) like the brazilians/spanish/everyone else

 

also quite often perents mindset needs changing or they need banned from whatching the games or something (maybe a bit over the top) but when i wa a kid playing you hear parents screaming and swearing at the kids telling them to go in for hard tackles etc. does no good what so ever.

 

 

 

 

this months article about the barca youth program demonstrates a few of these points. If any parent tries to shout what their child is to do the coaches will politely tell them that the coaches are the experts not them. As for parents there was an article in the daily mail on saturday saying how a really promising young footballer is planning to quit football due to the racist comments by players, coaches and parents. I would support a ban of parents or a two strike and ban from games measure.

 

I think there should be a greater introduction into futsal. The most technically gifted football nations swear by it as a way for teaching skills. Also it could help months were bad weather calls of games and is fun due to the personal skill that can be displayed. Am I right in thinking that competition is fine in this case as the most technically gifted players shine rather than the biggest, if so big competitions should be introduced.

 

Overal though we have a coaching course that all must pass, I think it can be improved alot. Yes time constraints can be a problem for coaches but even a summer course when the teams would normally train might be wise. Think Hearts should utilise Heriott-watt so that a course can be set up to improve the standard of coaches in all levels. Even a year long course for the professional coaches which players could take when they retire.

 

alot needs to be done.

[Tazio]

Rankings are a double edged sword.

 

However I will always maintain that a country that produces quality players export them as foreign teams want them. The Italian and Spanish leagues have many Eastern European and Scandinavian players. As does the EPL. Now ask how many British players play abroad?

 

There is something rotten in the core of British football. An arrogance for a start that says that the foreigners don't know about football. This from a group of countries with one dodgy world cup between them.

 

A good example is the obsession with every time a foreign keeper punches the ball British commentators get hysterical and ask why he didn't catch it. Yet Britain is the only place where catching is the obsession. Yet apparently we know best.

 

We don't.

[jamboinglasgow]

So what did I learn from this.

I decided to take up the chance to manage an U17/U18 team. Everyone is selected on ability only. last night we played a pub team (most players in their early 20s and pretty fit) with only a squad of 12 players , 2 of whom were only 16, 4 were only 17. We have only two players who are anywhere near 6 feet tall and we don't have a proper goalkeeper.We won by a country mile. We regularly play a local university college team : we have not lost to them in 2 seasons.

Regardless of stature , skill & fitness pays. You just have to be patient.

 

Edit : the head scout knew who Mickey was , being a Hearts man from prestompans originally.

 

sad to hear that those coaches were so useless that it stopped your son from progressing.

 

but I applaud you for taking up the role of coaching and making sure that this doesn't happen to youngsters. hopefully more coaches can do this. I would love to coach youngsters but I dont think I have the skills as I am one of the worst players arond.

[maroonedinoz]

Rankings are a double edged sword.

 

A good example is the obsession with every time a foreign keeper punches the ball British commentators get hysterical and ask why he didn't catch it. Yet Britain is the only place where catching is the obsession. Yet apparently we know best.

 

We don't.

 

I listened to an inerview with an Aussie coach a few yers ago who studied at AC Milan, and he said that the goalkeepers there(at that time anyway) were actully coached to PUNCH the ball clear.

 

I'm 12000 miles away, but it amazes me the number of Aussies who are playing in the EPL or Seria A, compared to the very few Scots.

 

Also, and I am not sure what happens in Scottish youth football today, but Australia has recognised that playing 7 or 8 year olds on a full length pitch in competitive 11 a side league games is NOT the way to go when it comes to *developing* talent, and has now changed its grass roots approach so that there are fewer kids in a team and smaller pitches so that more touches are made by each individual, and skill, rather than aggression and powwer are the main focus..

 

In fact it is being modelled on the Dutch system, due to the influence of former coach Guus hiddink and curren tcoach Pim Verbeek.

 

If Scotland hasn't already reformed its youth set up along these lines, then it should.

[Marooned In Oz]

I listened to an inerview with an Aussie coach a few yers ago who studied at AC Milan, and he said that the goalkeepers there(at that time anyway) were actully coached to PUNCH the ball clear.

 

I'm 12000 miles away, but it amazes me the number of Aussies who are playing in the EPL or Seria A, compared to the very few Scots.

 

Also, and I am not sure what happens in Scottish youth football today, but Australia has recognised that playing 7 or 8 year olds on a full length pitch in competitive 11 a side league games is NOT the way to go when it comes to *developing* talent, and has now changed its grass roots approach so that there are fewer kids in a team and smaller pitches so that more touches are made by each individual, and skill, rather than aggression and powwer are the main focus..

 

In fact it is being modelled on the Dutch system, due to the influence of former coach Guus hiddink and curren tcoach Pim Verbeek.

 

If Scotland hasn't already reformed its youth set up along these lines, then it should.

 

Took the words right out of my (stolen) mouth.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

Craig Gordon.

 

Who, incidentally, was almost chucked by Hearts aged 16 for being too small.

 

It's scandalous.

 

Craig is a good goalkeeper but what top teams would he walk into?

[Seymour M Hersh]

IMO, A country our size shouldn't be expecting to be in the top 16 or 24 countries regularly. We were and are punching above our weight in doing so.

 

 

 

Agree to an extent. But then again, our friendly against Croatia was one of the best friendly matches I've seen in a long time.

 

 

 

One game. A game too far at the time for our squad.

 

Such as?

 

Craig Gordon?

 

Allan Hutton?

 

Whatever else you may have thought of us v Croatia, they are a top side, and just as they were able to keep it from us, we were actually able to keep the ball from them at times. A major step forward for Scotland that.

 

As I said at the start, I do agree that in principal we should work more on skill etc at youth levels. I feel clubs are already doing that though and we're beginning to see the benefits come through.

 

And, we should not forget our "hard work" ethic either. It goes a long way in football - just as far as skill does.

 

Your having a laff if you think he is a top player. How der hun got so much money for him is a mystery. He looked well out of his depth on Wednesday imo. As for CG as I have replied to another poster which of the very top teams in England let alone Europe would he walk into? And I personally rate CG highly but there are imo a lot better than him.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Your having a laff if you think he is a top player. How der hun got so much money for him is a mystery. He looked well out of his depth on Wednesday imo.

 

:rofl:

[Seymour M Hersh]

:rofl:

 

I thought you were having a larf!!

[Derek]

Also, and I am not sure what happens in Scottish youth football today, but Australia has recognised that playing 7 or 8 year olds on a full length pitch in competitive 11 a side league games is NOT the way to go when it comes to *developing* talent, and has now changed its grass roots approach so that there are fewer kids in a team and smaller pitches so that more touches are made by each individual, and skill, rather than aggression and powwer are the main focus..

 

.....

 

If Scotland hasn't already reformed its youth set up along these lines, then it should.

 

I'm glad to say it has changed.

 

My son plays for Bonnyrigg Rose Under 8's, and they play on much smaller pitches and smaller goals. They play in "leagues" run by ESSDA (http://www.essda.co.uk/). They are not true leagues as such as they do not post the results or positions, and are there only to match teams with teams of similar abilities. Teams have to play all boys they bring, and are allowed to sub on and of as much as they want throughout the game.

 

As a parent, I can see that the emphasis is on playing and enjoying the football and good sportsmanship, as well as coaching the boys to play better. My son is not the strongest in the team, but still gets his chance every week and his confidence (and hopefully ability) is getting better because of it.

 

I understand the pitches grow with the boys (if you know what I mean) until they reach full size pitches.

 

Seems to work pretty well.