TOP 10 BRITISH FOOTBALLERS OF ALL TIME

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Mackay was an incredible player: certainly my all time Hearts hero. But sorry: he's just too high in that list.

 

 

That's my preference for box to box midfielders and wingers shining through though. I was desperately trying to justify Bryan Robson in the list as well, but couldn't.

[Hearts Heritage]

Except cricket's different - because it has statistics to prove Bradman's timeless greatness. There are no such stats in football, so things become far more subjective.

 

Around the world, if you asked fans or even people versed in football history who was the greatest ever, how many people would respond with "Bobby Walker"? Hardly any; not even that many Hearts fans.

 

Cricket, Baseball and American football do have the statistics that make comparisons across the ages possible. Also the nature of those games is that even though those are team sports individuals can be assessed on a one to one basis.

 

Football has much cruder measures goals, appearances or Caps. Bobby Walker didn't even make the top 30 when Hearts did their poll to see who would appear on the legends banners. However he held the Scottish Cap record for longer than anyone except Kenny D. He was awarded 100 guineas by the SFA on retirement. He was loved by the Hearts faithful far far more than any player in the Club's History. The respect we pay the Willie Bauld is a nothing to the regard Bobby was held in. He was a superstar in an age that did not have such a concept.

 

Football effectively started in 1970 with the Mexico World Cup and the advent of colour and Satellite TV it became a global phenomenon.

Many would rate the Brazil of 1958/1962 as better than the 1970s side BUT the footage is so 'poor' and from so few angles that it is hard to judge.

 

The 4 quarter finals in 1996 all took place at 3PM on the Saturday with only 1 shown live.

 

[shaun.lawson]

Cricket, Baseball and American football do have the statistics that make comparisons across the ages possible. Also the nature of those games is that even though those are team sports individuals can be assessed on a one to one basis.

 

Football has much cruder measures goals, appearances or Caps. Bobby Walker didn't even make the top 30 when Hearts did their poll to see who would appear on the legends banners. However he held the Scottish Cap record for longer than anyone except Kenny D. He was awarded 100 guineas by the SFA on retirement. He was loved by the Hearts faithful far far more than any player in the Club's History. The respect we pay the Willie Bauld is a nothing to the regard Bobby was held in. He was a superstar in an age that did not have such a concept.

 

Football effectively started in 1970 with the Mexico World Cup and the advent of colour and Satellite TV it became a global phenomenon.

Many would rate the Brazil of 1958/1962 as better than the 1970s side BUT the footage is so 'poor' and from so few angles that it is hard to judge.

 

The 4 quarter finals in 1996 all took place at 3PM on the Saturday with only 1 shown live.

 

 

But if football "started in 1970", why did my list feature six or seven players who peaked before then, and no-one at all whose peak was later than the early 80s?

 

While growing up, I read all sorts of accounts by British writers which insisted that, at least until the Second World War, no national team anywhere could touch England. It was taken as read that we'd have won all three World Cups played between 1930 and the war had we deigned to enter them; and when we did finally enter in 1950, we were installed as red hot favourites.

 

But all these accounts were clearly arrogant bollocks, weren't they? Because already, other parts of the world were moving ahead in terms of technique, and closing the gap when it came to physicality; other parts of the world also prepared properly for major tournaments and didn't select the team via committee. So when it came to the 1950 World Cup, England were humiliated; and three years later, Hungary demonstrated just how far behind we actually were.

 

I often feel similarly when reading accounts about greats of the distant past. The assumption is that because they were the best in Britain, they were therefore the best in the world; but there is no evidence to substantiate that anywhere. My suspicion is that England and Scotland had already been knocked off the top by the 1920s; and that Bobby Walker was Britain's best at the time he was playing doesn't make him the greatest British player of all time at all, I'm afraid.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

1. George BEST (Northern Ireland)

 

2. Bobby CHARLTON (England)

 

3. Duncan EDWARDS (England)

 

4. Stanley MATTHEWS (England)

 

5. Jim BAXTER (Scotland)

 

6. Kenny DALGLISH (Scotland)

 

7. John CHARLES (Wales)

 

8. Bobby MOORE (England)

 

9. Denis LAW (Scotland)

 

10. Gordon BANKS (England)

 

 

How can you have Duncan Edwards? He died when he was 21 and you'd need to be about 70 years old to have any memory of him playing.

 

Surely people can only include players from their own lifetime or those they've seen extensively on TV.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

To add to Shaun's example, WG Grace doesn't appear anywhere these days in the great cricket players of all time. The likes of Bobby Walker and Billy Meredith are football's equivalent of Grace.

[shaun.lawson]

How can you have Duncan Edwards? He died when he was 21 and you'd need to be about 70 years old to have any memory of him playing.

 

Surely people can only include players from their own lifetime or those they've seen extensively on TV.

 

Because he was ridiculously, unbelievably brilliant, who I'm quite sure would've gone on to become Britain's best ever had he lived. In my view, the only English player since Edwards to get anywhere near his incredible levels of tactical and technical sophistication was, briefly, Paul Gascoigne; and ten years from now, my hope is we'll be able to say something similar about Jack Wilshere, whose abilities are positively un-English if you ask me.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Because he was ridiculously, unbelievably brilliant, who I'm quite sure would've gone on to become Britain's best ever had he lived. In my view, the only English player since Edwards to get anywhere near his incredible levels of tactical and technical sophistication was, briefly, Paul Gascoigne; and ten years from now, my hope is we'll be able to say something similar about Jack Wilshere, whose abilities are positively un-English if you ask me.

 

 

Fair enough. I'm suspicious of the Edwards chat though - how anybody can know for sure is beyond me. Is there any available footage of him? If TV hadn't been invented yet some folk would be saying Ian Durrant was the greatest Scottish player ever.

[Charlie-Brown]

Because he was ridiculously, unbelievably brilliant, who I'm quite sure would've gone on to become Britain's best ever had he lived. In my view, the only English player since Edwards to get anywhere near his incredible levels of tactical and technical sophistication was, briefly, Paul Gascoigne; and ten years from now, my hope is we'll be able to say something similar about Jack Wilshere, whose abilities are positively un-English if you ask me.

 

So if Edwards who died in 1958 is placed higher than players from a later era who achieved more ..... why isn't Jimmy McGrory ahead of Dennis Law?

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Fair enough. I'm suspicious of the Edwards chat though - how anybody can know for sure is beyond me. Is there any available footage of him? If TV hadn't been invented yet some folk would be saying Ian Durrant was the greatest Scottish player ever.

 

Snoreson is 85 years old and witnessed him playing.

[shaun.lawson]

Fair enough. I'm suspicious of the Edwards chat though - how anybody can know for sure is beyond me. Is there any available footage of him? If TV hadn't been invented yet some folk would be saying Ian Durrant was the greatest Scottish player ever.

 

Heh! There must be footage of the Babes available. I still think they'd have gone on to be Britain's best ever team; and at the time, by British standards at least (though not quite European ones), they were a revolution. Edwards, though, benefits from the JFK/James Dean thing: dying so prematurely made him a legend, who it's difficult to analyse that well. There are just so many accounts from his contemporaries about his majesty though.

[shaun.lawson]

So if Edwards who died in 1958 is placed higher than players from a later era who achieved more ..... why isn't Jimmy McGrory ahead of Dennis Law?

 

Because he isn't - and because any list like this is, by necessity, subjective.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Here's a challenge:

 

Pick four lists.

 

1 - Birth of game to WW2

2- Post war to late 60s/colour TV

3- Late 60s/colour TV to post Italia 90 corporate takeover

4 - 1990 to now

 

 

Knock yerselves out...

[Charlie-Brown]

Because he isn't - and because any list like this is, by necessity, subjective.

 

I suspect it's because your knowledge of McGrory is limited? He was and is the 7th highest goalscorer on the planet EVER! the highest ever british goalscorer - by quite a distance! Denis Law was considered a modern 'McGrory' ..... just because insular Englandshire is totally ignorant of his record & achievements doesn't mean that he doesn't and shouldn't deserve to be on that list because he does - by any OBJECTIVE measure!

[portobellojambo1]

Trying to find 10 players from 140 years is impossible. Although Bobby Walker has rightly been mentioned, I can't believe Tom Finney, Brian Clough and John White haven't been quoted.

 

Agree with this. To try and analyse what every player offered within their own era (especially ones where age means we never had the opportunity to witness their feats in the flesh), and then pick the best ten over such a lengthly period is virtually impossible. There is potential to pick countless selections of 10, all of which would be difficult to argue with. And having picked your 10 you then have to give thought to whom you have excluded, and why.

 

Breaking it down and selecting 10 players per decade would probably be a lot easier, but would require some research still.

 

I've not read all the way through the thread but in those parts I have read there was no mention of players such as Danny Blanchflower for example (as I say I may have missed his name and others which float about in your head as potential inclusions).

[shaun.lawson]

Here's a challenge:

 

Pick four lists.

 

1 - Birth of game to WW2

2- Post war to late 60s/colour TV

3- Late 60s/colour TV to post Italia 90 corporate takeover

4 - 1990 to now

 

 

Knock yerselves out...

 

I'll take the easiest option: the last one.

 

The ten best British players since 1990

 

1. Paul SCHOLES (England)

 

2. Ryan GIGGS (Wales)

 

3. Wayne ROONEY (England)

 

4. Steven GERRARD (England)

 

5. Paul GASCOIGNE (England)

 

6. Michael OWEN (England)

 

7. Alan SHEARER (England)

 

8. Rio FERDINAND (England)

 

9. David BECKHAM (England)

 

10. Andy GORAM (Scotland)

 

Just missed inclusion: G. Neville, Ince, McCoist, Durrant, Collins, Adams, Terry, Lampard, Campbell, A. Cole

[shaun.lawson]

I suspect it's because your knowledge of McGrory is limited? He was and is the 7th highest goalscorer on the planet EVER! the highest ever british goalscorer - by quite a distance! Denis Law was considered a modern 'McGrory' ..... just because insular Englandshire is totally ignorant of his record & achievements doesn't mean that he doesn't and shouldn't deserve to be on that list because he does - by any OBJECTIVE measure!

 

Why was he overlooked in favour of Hughie Gallacher so often?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

So what was so special about Edwards?

 

I'm totally ignorant on this one so enlighten me.

[The Merse]

These lists are absolutely pointless.

 

Folk drooling over players they've probably seen two minutes in action, or some not at all.

 

It's hard enough to be objective over players you have seen let alone ones you haven't.

[Charlie-Brown]

Why was he overlooked in favour of Hughie Gallacher so often?

 

Because they only played 4 or 5 internationals per year in those days and Hughie Gallagher was another very successful striker of his day - a Wembley Wizard with a tremendous international record of 23 goals in 20 matches - but remember in those days there were no substitutes so if one centre forward got the jersey the other one didn't .... McGrory still scored 6 goals in the 7 games for Scotland he played and careerwise he outscored Hughie Gallacher, Denis Law, John Charles, Jimmy Greaves, Dixie Dean and everybody else on this island!

[Dot Cotton]

Here's a challenge:

 

Pick four lists.

 

4 - 1990 to now

 

Knock yerselves out

 

OK here is mine (will spare you the nationalities )

 

1. Ryan Giggs

2. Paul Scholes

3. Rio Ferdinand

4. Steven Gerrard

5. Gareth Bale (I know he has only had one decent season but I think he will be a huge player in years to come).

6. Frank Lampard

7. Gary Neville

8. Alan Shearer

9. Tony Adams

10. David Beckham

 

Would love to put 10 Scottish players in there but hey ho.

[shaun.lawson]

So what was so special about Edwards?

 

I'm totally ignorant on this one so enlighten me.

 

Bobby Charlton: "(Edwards was) the only player that made me feel inferior... (His death was) the biggest single tragedy ever to happen to Manchester United and English football... I totally believe he was the best player I ever saw or am likely to see... I was never going to be as good as him".

 

Bobby Moore: "He was the Rock of Gibraltar at the back, dynamic coming forward. There will never be another player like him".

 

Terry Venables: "Duncan Edwards played in the same position, number 6, as Bobby Moore and, in the summer of 1966, would have been only 29. How could you ever pick Moore, great player though he was, ahead of Duncan?"

 

Tommy Docherty: "There is no doubt in my mind that Duncan would have become the greatest player ever. Not just in British football, with United and England, but the best in the world. George Best was something special, as was Pel? and Maradona, but in my mind Duncan was much better in terms of all-round ability and skill."

 

What was unique about Edwards was that, although in theory he was a defensive midfielder, in practice he could play almost anywhere on the park: in central defence or even as an extra striker. In tackling, passing and shooting with both feet, he was pretty much peerless - and his level of authority on the pitch was incredible for such a young player.

[The Merse]

Bobby Charlton: "(Edwards was) the only player that made me feel inferior... (His death was) the biggest single tragedy ever to happen to Manchester United and English football... I totally believe he was the best player I ever saw or am likely to see... I was never going to be as good as him".

 

Bobby Moore: "He was the Rock of Gibraltar at the back, dynamic coming forward. There will never be another player like him".

 

Terry Venables: "Duncan Edwards played in the same position, number 6, as Bobby Moore and, in the summer of 1966, would have been only 29. How could you ever pick Moore, great player though he was, ahead of Duncan?"

 

Tommy Docherty: "There is no doubt in my mind that Duncan would have become the greatest player ever. Not just in British football, with United and England, but the best in the world. George Best was something special, as was Pel? and Maradona, but in my mind Duncan was much better in terms of all-round ability and skill."

 

What was unique about Edwards was that, although in theory he was a defensive midfielder, in practice he could play almost anywhere on the park: in central defence or even as an extra striker. In tackling, passing and shooting with both feet, he was pretty much peerless - and his level of authority on the pitch was incredible for such a young player.

 

Without being too crude. How much of that could be seen as over sentimental?

[shaun.lawson]

Without being too crude. How much of that could be seen as over sentimental?

 

Some of it certainly could. Who knows? But if you consider how great the Babes were, and that Edwards was their best player by miles at such a young age, well... In the end, it's impossible to ever arrive at a definitive judgement: these are just eternal pub debates basically.

[WorldChampions1902]

 

Football has much cruder measures goals, appearances or Caps. Bobby Walker didn't even make the top 30 when Hearts did their poll to see who would appear on the legends banners. However he held the Scottish Cap record for longer than anyone except Kenny D. He was awarded 100 guineas by the SFA on retirement. He was loved by the Hearts faithful far far more than any player in the Club's History. The respect we pay the Willie Bauld is a nothing to the regard Bobby was held in. He was a superstar in an age that did not have such a concept.

 

Football effectively started in 1970 with the Mexico World Cup and the advent of colour and Satellite TV it became a global phenomenon.

 

I agree with Davy. Bobby Walker was described as, "The Best Player in Europe" and "the greatest natural footballer who ever played" by respected commentators of the time. His Scottish cap record speaks for itself and as Davy has pointed out on many occasions, the only reason Walker didn't garner more caps is because there were much fewer International matches during his time. Davy is also correct (IMHO) when he points out that Walker was a 'superstar' of his time and interestingly also was at the vanguard in the use of colour to celebrate his achievements - just check out Davy's avatar!

 

[The Merse]

Some of it certainly could. Who knows? But if you consider how great the Babes were, and that Edwards was their best player by miles at such a young age, well... In the end, it's impossible to ever arrive at a definitive judgement: these are just eternal pub debates basically.

 

I guess I'm just a bit pigheaded regarding the standard of football in the past.

 

The tactical nous of pretty much all teams now means you really do have to be a special player to stand out in the modern game.

 

There pretty much are no easy games anymore. In the past, I'm not sure the same thing could be said.

[Charlie-Brown]

Some of it certainly could. Who knows? But if you consider how great the Babes were, and that Edwards was their best player by miles at such a young age, well... In the end, it's impossible to ever arrive at a definitive judgement: these are just eternal pub debates basically.

 

Yes pub debates where you are trying to reason with people that fail to grasp that if you DOUBLED Denis Law's career goals total you still wouldn't reach Jimmy McGrory's career total...........yet somehow Britains all-time record goalscorer isn't even in the top ten even though only 6 other men on the planet have ever scored more goals than him in the History of Football and those include Pele & Gerd Muller!

[shaun.lawson]

I guess I'm just a bit pigheaded regarding the standard of football in the past.

 

The tactical nous of pretty much all teams now means you really do have to be a special player to stand out in the modern game.

 

There pretty much are no easy games anymore. In the past, I'm not sure the same thing could be said.

 

Oh, it's certainly a lot harder to stand out nowadays. Because all players are so much fitter, there is literally less and less space on the pitch. And there are indeed no easy games any more - with the caveat that largely the same countries congregate at the business end of the World Cup as always have, and largely the same clubs dominate the CL and domestic leagues as always have too.

[shaun.lawson]

Yes pub debates where you are trying to reason with people that fail to grasp that if you DOUBLED Denis Law's career goals total you still wouldn't reach Jimmy McGrory's career total...........yet somehow Britains all-time record goalscorer isn't even in the top ten even though only 6 other men on the planet have ever scored more goals than him in the History of Football and those include Pele & Gerd Muller!

 

 

But it still wasn't enough for him to win more than seven (count 'em) caps for his country.

[Charlie-Brown]

 

But it still wasn't enough for him to win more than seven (count 'em) caps for his country.

 

That is because of ANOTHER tremendous Scottish footballer who also could arguably merit a top ten inclusion who scored 429 career goals including 23 in only 20 internationals - Hughie Gallacher!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hughie_Gallacher

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

That's exactly how I felt reading they quotes, D-McG. Obviously a fantastic player but at 21 how could you tell he was going to be the greatest ever? Especially in his position? Messi said the other night something along the lines of Walcott is the only Arsenal player Barca are scared of.

 

Is Jimmy McGrory the new Kevin Smith?

[DaveARoss]

Think it's hard to gage because of differences in era (as has been mentioned) but for once I have read a thread on Kickback and thought the debate was interesting. Anyone think Levein might have been close without the injuries?

[Charlie-Brown]

That's exactly how I felt reading they quotes, D-McG. Obviously a fantastic player but at 21 how could you tell he was going to be the greatest ever? Especially in his position? Messi said the other night something along the lines of Walcott is the only Arsenal player Barca are scared of.

 

Is Jimmy McGrory the new Kevin Smith?

 

 

When I was a kid AP I was fascinated by & read up on all the football records, teams, players, goals, crowds etc. I wasn't a statto but I had a Hamlyn Book of British Football records - still have it somewhere - anyway we were bickering about something fitba records related at School when our Geography teacher overheard and piped up that his Uncle Willie McFadyen was the Scottish all time highest league scorer for a season with 52 goals for Motherwell in their Championship winning team of 1932 and was also the top league scorer the following season with 45 goals I looked it up that night when I got home and he was of course right ... I don't think even Henrik Larsson managed to score 97 League goals in 2 seasons.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Here's my top 10

 

1. Kenny Dalglish

2. Barney Battles

3. Dennis Law

4. Jimmy McGrory

5. Jimmy JOhnstone

6. Dave Mackay

7. Willie Bauld

8. Alfie Conn

9. Jim Baxter

10. Danny McGrain

 

 

[Charlie-Brown]

Here's my top 10

 

1. Kenny Dalglish

2. Barney Battles

3. Dennis Law

4. Jimmy McGrory

5. Jimmy JOhnstone

6. Dave Mackay

7. Willie Bauld

8. Alfie Conn

9. Jim Baxter

10. Danny McGrain

 

 

 

 

 

That looks about right to me John perhaps also a shout for Hughie Gallacher, Alex James, Tommy & Bobby Walker, Gordon Smith, Davie Cooper ... possibly also George Best & Stanley Matthews but seriously him apart does Lawson seriously expect ANY other English players would get in the team?

[The Old Tolbooth]

That looks about right to me John perhaps also a shout for Hughie Gallacher, Alex James, Tommy & Bobby Walker, Gordon Smith, Davie Cooper ... possibly also George Best & Stanley Matthews but seriously him apart does Lawson seriously expect ANY other English players would get in the team?

I like your thinking Charlie

[Charlie-Brown]

I'll change track a bit .... top ten/eleven British (& Irish) players in my lifetime - or at least since I started watching & being interest in football circa 1975 .

 

Top 2 are easy

1. Kenny Dalglish

2. Kevin Keegan

number 3 is quite simple as well

3. Liam Brady

the rest are all just personal choices

4. Davie Cooper

5. Gordon Strachan

6. Trevor Francis

8. Peter Beardsley

9. John Barnes

10. Ian Rush

11. Gazza

[aberhill jambo]

I'll take the easiest option: the last one.

 

The ten best British players since 1990

 

1. Paul SCHOLES (England)

 

2. Ryan GIGGS (Wales)

 

3. Wayne ROONEY (England)

 

4. Steven GERRARD (England)

 

5. Paul GASCOIGNE (England)

 

6. Michael OWEN (England)

 

7. Alan SHEARER (England)

 

8. Rio FERDINAND (England)

 

9. David BECKHAM (England)

 

10. Andy GORAM (Scotland)

 

Just missed inclusion: G. Neville, Ince, McCoist, Durrant, Collins, Adams, Terry, Lampard, Campbell, A. Cole

McCoist -Durrant your having a laugh its top british players not rangers players.

[hmfc_liam06]

FFS did football start in 1960 then?

 

Pre wwii players for consideration

 

Nick Ross

Bobby Walker

Billy Meredith

Jimmy McGrory

Stanley Matthews

 

I doubt anyone on this board is qualified to name the "top 10 british footballers of all time" hence why people are giving their own opinions as to the players of their era. Its not to deliberately overlook pre war players its purely down to the fact they have never seen them play!!

[hmfc_liam06]

Kenny Dalglish. Voted by Liverpool fans as their greatest ever player.

 

That's Liverpool, the most successful English side ever....

 

Your mate is rather silly.

 

Do you mean at European level or domestically? Because Manchester United are the most successful domestic club.

[Charlie-Brown]

Do you mean at European level or domestically? Because Manchester United are the most successful domestic club.

 

 

No they aren't - Rangers FC are! FACT!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No they aren't - Rangers FC are! FACT!

 

 

In England?

[Charlie-Brown]

In England?

 

I thought this thread was about the best of British?

[CMc]

I'll take the easiest option: the last one.

 

The ten best British players since 1990

 

1. Paul SCHOLES (England)

 

2. Ryan GIGGS (Wales)

 

3. Wayne ROONEY (England)

 

4. Steven GERRARD (England)

 

5. Paul GASCOIGNE (England)

 

6. Michael OWEN (England)

 

7. Alan SHEARER (England)

 

8. Rio FERDINAND (England)

 

9. David BECKHAM (England)

 

10. Andy GORAM (Scotland)

 

Just missed inclusion: G. Neville, Ince, McCoist, Durrant, Collins, Adams, Terry, Lampard, Campbell, A. Cole

 

Much as I hate him, Cole (assuming it is Ashley) should be there ahead of Goram.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Without being too crude. How much of that could be seen as over sentimental?

 

Which is why it's daft to include someone on these lists who unfortunately died before they had a career.

[Hearts Heritage]

Which is why it's daft to include someone on these lists who unfortunately died before they had a career.

 

Jimi Hendrix died without having a 'career' doesn't prevent him being the best rock guitarist.

[hmfc_liam06]

No they aren't - Rangers FC are! FACT!

 

Valderammas point was that Liverpool were the most successful English side so I asked if he meant domestically or in Europe. Where do Rangers come into that?

[Charlie-Brown]

Valderammas point was that Liverpool were the most successful English side so I asked if he meant domestically or in Europe. Where do Rangers come into that?

 

Rangers are the most successful ENGERLANDER side.

[Haymarket4]

Best ever in no particular order Stanley Matthews

Duncan Edwards Bryan Robson Glenn Hoddle Bobby Charlton kenny Dalgleish Archie Gemmell Ryan Giggs Pat Jennings Graeme Souness Davie Cooper Steven Gerard Willie Bald

[Haymarket4]

Oops WILLIE BALD

[Haymarket4]

No 1 always a legend W BAULD