Victorian Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 in my time of supporting hearts, this season - by my reckoning - sees our 5th 'realistic' title challenge. 1985/6, 1987/8, 1997/8, 2005/6, 2010/1. do feel free to help out a periodically ropey memory if i have missed out any others. anyways, i was thinking about this yesterday and it suddenly occurred to me that there is one particular facet to this current season which is different to the others.... a scottish cup run. 1986 - cup final. 1988 - semi final. 1998 - cup winners. 2006 - cup winners. something the lawson said on another thread has struck a chord. in 1998 our eventual fall away in the league may have aided our tilt at winning the cup. can the opposite be true this time? can it be an omen that this current title challenge isn't distracted by the scottish cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Meldrew Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't really remember 1987/88 as being a title challenge - IIRC Celtic were ahead for most of the time and we sneaked second from the Hun, in large part by beating them 2-1 at Ibrox towards the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Stinkfinger Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 no & no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't really remember 1987/88 as being a title challenge - IIRC Celtic were ahead for most of the time and we sneaked second from the Hun, in large part by beating them 2-1 at Ibrox towards the end of the season. the title itself was still 'live' with 3 games to go, albeit highly unlikely. we beat celtic 2-1 at tynie the week after the semi final to end their unbeaten run and stay in the hunt, mathematically anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Bundy Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well, that would be a beautiful omen if came true - I'd said when we were knocked out the cup that I would forgive it more easily if the run were to continue..and it is..and the more we continue to be up there keeping pace with OF and maybe even overtaking one of them, the cup exit will blur from memory. If we won the thing (I know, I know..) the cup exit would be as significant a trigger as the 3-0 Killie game. Anyway, win it, don't win it, we are not stupid and believe most of us are still grounded enough to know that it's just a nice feeling to be making great headlines by exceeding all expectations this season. We are still the only real threat to the OF when our club is on song and I mean more by splitting them and relegating one of them to lowly third which is a disaster for either of them. I would love it if we even achieve that again! (stay grounded...must stay grounded...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 the title itself was still 'live' with 3 games to go, albeit highly unlikely. we beat celtic 2-1 at tynie the week after the semi final to end their unbeaten run and stay in the h unt, mathematically anyway. [/quote Did beating celtic not prevent them beating our run of games from 85-86? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 [/quote Did beating celtic not prevent them beating our run of games from 85-86? i believe so. i think both runs totaled 31 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 in my time of supporting hearts, this season - by my reckoning - sees our 5th 'realistic' title challenge. 1985/6, 1987/8, 1997/8, 2005/6, 2010/1. do feel free to help out a periodically ropey memory if i have missed out any others. anyways, i was thinking about this yesterday and it suddenly occurred to me that there is one particular facet to this current season which is different to the others.... a scottish cup run. 1986 - cup final. 1988 - semi final. 1998 - cup winners. 2006 - cup winners. something the lawson said on another thread has struck a chord. in 1998 our eventual fall away in the league may have aided our tilt at winning the cup. can the opposite be true this time? can it be an omen that this current title challenge isn't distracted by the scottish cup? Briefly on 87/8: not really a sustained title challenge, mainly because Celtic had such an outstanding campaign, partly thanks to a run of draws in December and early January that killed our chances. But in terms of pure fluency, there's an argument that Hearts were slightly better that season than 2 years earlier: title pushes require not just terrific Hearts sides, but a vulnerable OF throwing points away too. But to your main point. Yes, I do think being out of the Cup could well help us. The reality is we are outsiders, and have far and away the smallest margin for error. That's why surprise challengers in most countries invariably come up short in the end: squad depth almost always tells. In 1998, a number of our players were carrying injuries during the second half of the season, and we didn't have the squad needed to cope. We were out on our feet by April, basically. And even in 2005/6, my feeling (and Burley's, for that matter) was that while our first XI was terrific, we needed a much bigger squad: in terms of quantity as much as anything else. But this time round, and in the context of an SPL which is considerably weaker than 5 years ago, our squad (especially if one or two reinforcements could be added by the end of the window) might just be enough. And while we don't have the extra games the Cup brings, whoever wins the OF last 16 tie will, both uglies are still in the League Cup, and Rangers are still in Europe as well. They especially don't appear to have the squad to cope; but for financial reasons, need to stay in the Europa League as long as possible. All these things have an impact - and while I'm spooked by the parallels between this season and 1985/6, there is one obvious difference, and it's the one you've noted. This time, there's no danger of the end of season double whammy everyone experienced in 1986; this time, we can focus everything on becoming Champions. You never know, spanky; you just never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Briefly on 87/8: not really a sustained title challenge, mainly because Celtic had such an outstanding campaign, partly thanks to a run of draws in December and early January that killed our chances. But in terms of pure fluency, there's an argument that Hearts were slightly better that season than 2 years earlier: title pushes require not just terrific Hearts sides, but a vulnerable OF throwing points away too. But to your main point. Yes, I do think being out of the Cup could well help us. The reality is we are outsiders, and have far and away the smallest margin for error. That's why surprise challengers in most countries invariably come up short in the end: squad depth almost always tells. In 1998, a number of our players were carrying injuries during the second half of the season, and we didn't have the squad needed to cope. We were out on our feet by April, basically. And even in 2005/6, my feeling (and Burley's, for that matter) was that while our first XI was terrific, we needed a much bigger squad: in terms of quantity as much as anything else. But this time round, and in the context of an SPL which is considerably weaker than 5 years ago, our squad (especially if one or two reinforcements could be added by the end of the window) might just be enough. And while we don't have the extra games the Cup brings, whoever wins the OF last 16 tie will, both uglies are still in the League Cup, and Rangers are still in Europe as well. They especially don't appear to have the squad to cope; but for financial reasons, need to stay in the Europa League as long as possible. All these things have an impact - and while I'm spooked by the parallels between this season and 1985/6, there is one obvious difference, and it's the one you've noted. This time, there's no danger of the end of season double whammy everyone experienced in 1986; this time, we can focus everything on becoming Champions. You never know, spanky; you just never know. for whatever reason it's also been my memory that the '88 side was a better footballing side than the '86 one. celtic were undoubtedly better in '88 than they were in '86. rangers were massively better than their '86 team and were still in the early days of the souness revolution. finishing above that rangers side was some achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I'm ditching all thoughts of the league until after the next few games. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I'm ditching all thoughts of the league until after the next few games. . This is my thinking too. If we can remain undefeated in our two Old Firm games plus if we beat St Johnstone then I'll start to really consider it. Spanky, you could've possibly have added season 1991/92 into the OP, as we were top of the league pretty much from September through til January, before falling away, which mirrors 2005/06. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Meldrew Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 This is my thinking too. If we can remain undefeated in our two Old Firm games plus if we beat St Johnstone then I'll start to really consider it. Spanky, you could've possibly have added season 1991/92 into the OP, as we were top of the league pretty much from September through til January, before falling away, which mirrors 2005/06. . I was thinking about 1991/92 as well - always struck me as more of a missed opportunity than 87/88 - we started with a win over Der Hun and were riding high until the shock 0-4 defeat to Aberdeen at Tynecastle. I think it was Eoin Jess who was awesome that day. Nice to pip Celtic for second on the final day of the season though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I was thinking about 1991/92 as well - always struck me as more of a missed opportunity than 87/88 - we started with a win over Der Hun and were riding high until the shock 0-4 defeat to Aberdeen at Tynecastle. I think it was Eoin Jess who was awesome that day. Nice to pip Celtic for second on the final day of the season though... I still can't fathom how that Aberdeen side had such a poor season. They were brilliant that day, and brought us depressingly back down to earth. HMFC didn't recover from that (and especially the Airdrie semis) for getting on for 4 years. Looking back though, I don't think Jordan's team could've kept it going for the whole campaign. It was quite one-dimensional, certainly didn't score enough goals, and arguably was getting on a bit. But its overall record over the 44 games was superb: it'd convert to 90 points in today's money, a better points/game average than we've achieved in any season since promotion in 1983. That Rangers still ended up way ahead tells you how good they were, and that 44 games were just far too much for a non-OF side to stay in contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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