University Education

[wibble]

Lots of focus on education with the extension of fees and the issue of useless degrees for thousands of students.

 

Is it not about time that a progressive government took the bull by the horns and implemented the following:

 

 

Compile a list of degree courses that meet the most valuable future skills needs of the country.

 

Create online courses for each course, with video lectures, course/subject forums with a resident "lecturer/course tutor".

 

Open up these online course materials to each and every member of society as it costs nothing to allow access to the materials.

 

Take applications for "assisted study" where the student receives additional assistance from the course tutor.

 

Create a culture of self motivated study and co-operative study where people use message boards and discussion forums to further their study.

 

I am sure that a system like this could be created for less than the cost of running 2 bricks and mortar universities. The opportunity to study to degree level would be available to each and every citizen and sitting the exams could be subject to a relatively small fee (say 200-300 pound). People would be much more likely to study part-time and overall the population and society would benefit.

 

I would certainly vote for a party that promised to implement such a system.

[Boris]

Lots of focus on education with the extension of fees and the issue of useless degrees for thousands of students.

 

Is it not about time that a progressive government took the bull by the horns and implemented the following:

 

 

Compile a list of degree courses that meet the most valuable future skills needs of the country.

 

Create online courses for each course, with video lectures, course/subject forums with a resident "lecturer/course tutor".

 

Open up these online course materials to each and every member of society as it costs nothing to allow access to the materials.

 

Take applications for "assisted study" where the student receives additional assistance from the course tutor.

 

Create a culture of self motivated study and co-operative study where people use message boards and discussion forums to further their study.

 

I am sure that a system like this could be created for less than the cost of running 2 bricks and mortar universities. The opportunity to study to degree level would be available to each and every citizen and sitting the exams could be subject to a relatively small fee (say 200-300 pound). People would be much more likely to study part-time and overall the population and society would benefit.

 

I would certainly vote for a party that promised to implement such a system.

 

E-learning, Distance learning, blended learning, whatever you want to call it is already happening. I think your costing is slightly low though, given the costs involved in supporting these students.

[FWJ]

I don't want my appendix taken out by someone who learned how to do it on a video...

[number16]

I don't want my appendix taken out by someone who learned how to do it on a video...

 

Medicine's one of the degree where the students need to attend all their lectures and have many of the classes in a hospital along side their placements.

 

Other degrees in most social sciences could easily be taught as effectively at a much lower cost.

[Boris]

Medicine's one of the degree where the students need to attend all their lectures and have many of the classes in a hospital along side their placements.

 

Other degrees in most social sciences could easily be taught as effectively at a much lower cost.

 

 

You think?

 

May I ask on what you are basing this?

[Guest John Meurig Thomas]

You think?

 

May I ask on what you are basing this?

 

Knowing several people who've taken social science modules, across two different universities and from science and social science backgrounds, I can safely say you can be self-taught it.

 

I'm not trying to be condescending btw. They're just mine, and loads of other folk's experiences.

[I P Knightley]

Create online courses for each course, with video lectures, course/subject forums with a resident "lecturer/course tutor".

 

Open up these online course materials to each and every member of society as it costs nothing to allow access to the materials.

 

 

Take applications for "assisted study" where the student receives additional assistance from the course tutor.

 

Create a culture of self motivated study and co-operative study where people use message boards and discussion forums to further their study.

 

I am sure that a system like this could be created for less than the cost of running 2 bricks and mortar universities. The opportunity to study to degree level would be available to each and every citizen and sitting the exams could be subject to a relatively small fee (say 200-300 pound). People would be much more likely to study part-time and overall the population and society would benefit.

 

I would certainly vote for a party that promised to implement such a system.

 

It's already being implemented without any input from governments.

 

I have links to a private sector business school that not so long ago launched an MBA online through Facebook. All the lectures are video recorded and free to access and (I think) there are materials that can be downloaded f.o.c. as well.

 

Fees would come in if the "student" decided to go on and actually take the exams to gain the certification.

 

It's a pretty clever way of allowing students to ensure that what they commit to is not irrelevant or beyond them.

[i8hibsh]

In times of austerity, we need to cherry pick and select the courses of true value and obviously decide what courses make ECONOMICAL sense.

 

Too many courses, too many people going to university and far too many places getting away with calling themselves a University.

[wibble]

E-learning, Distance learning, blended learning, whatever you want to call it is already happening. I think your costing is slightly low though, given the costs involved in supporting these students.

 

 

 

I understand that, but the cost of taking a degree in this format is no less than the cost of attending university. My point is that for some bread and butter type degrees in Maths, the sciences, economics, psychology etc. (the degrees that people can actually use in real life) that you could say that developing these online courses would be a (close to) one off effort to create materials that could be given away free to anyone who wanted to use them. (After all, as citizens the money spent on creating them is collected from all of the population so why shouldn't the education courses be seen as public property).

 

If people wanted to pay for assistance from tutors, all well and good, but you'd also find that message boards would spring up with help offered for self motivated students. I could easily imagine there being a sub-board on the likes of JKB for anyone self-studying one of these courses. Just like all the other assistance given on the board there would be no shortage of people willing to help. Imagine that the programme was to be launched with 4 degree courses available - Maths, Economics, an Engineering degree and one in the Arts. With a Wikipedia type level of moderation you'd soon find a wide range of study aids springing up from people online willing to offer assistance to those keen to study. People would make YouTube videos explaining a tricky equation or a concept in international finance, others would critique a students essays/assignments. Once a few waves of people had been through this system there'd be hundreds of people putting back into the system for future generations to benefit in the same way.

 

 

 

To provide the basis for a truly "free" degree level education would cost relatively little. It could and would have the potential to completely changes peoples attitude towards education and it would, for once, be a bold step taken by government for the genuine good of the people.

[Das Root]

University is shite. As you would imagine I did a computing degree in the 90s. We were taught programming languages that nobody used, nothing on the web (sure it was in it's infancy but Java and HTML were well established). Lecturers taught the same material year on year, even though the industry was rapidly evolving.

 

Ended up with no real experience, ended up learning more from PC magazines. Universities are no different to any other business, they core is to make money, teaching is now secondary to spin-off companies and research. I would argue when the ?9k per year fees hit England, university attendances from UK born students will rapidly drop. Good news as they can then fill them full of folk from abroad and charge them ?20k per term.

[The Brow]

In times of austerity, we need to cherry pick and select the courses of true value and obviously decide what courses make ECONOMICAL sense.

 

Too many courses, too many people going to university and far too many places getting away with calling themselves a University.

 

Did you not start a thread a while ago that (to sum it up) amounted to;

 

Ah went tae uni and drank a lot and didnae go

 

ah dropped out

 

it wis pish

 

now ahv got a joab that lets me travel

 

ye dinnae need yoooonnneeee

 

Or words to that effect? Whilst I agree with the your argument in some sense, you are to far the other way for me.

 

Things that Universities offer that cannot be taught or learned online (assuming youre an 18 year old who has moved out for the first time)

 

- Social Integration

- Discussion Skills

- Confidence Building

 

Thats just three things you cannot learn online. University isnt just about learning a course. Whilst the OP's point is a good one, this type of learning already exists (THE OPEN UNIVERSITY?!?!) but its no substitute for the real thing.

[The Brow]

University is shite. As you would imagine I did a computing degree in the 90s. We were taught programming languages that nobody used, nothing on the web (sure it was in it's infancy but Java and HTML were well established). Lecturers taught the same material year on year, even though the industry was rapidly evolving.

 

Ended up with no real experience, ended up learning more from PC magazines. Universities are no different to any other business, they core is to make money, teaching is now secondary to spin-off companies and research. I would argue when the ?9k per year fees hit England, university attendances from UK born students will rapidly drop. Good news as they can then fill them full of folk from abroad and charge them ?20k per term.

 

Im my opinion it isnt. I undertook a computing degree from 2001-2005 and learned skills that were completely up to date. The teaching was first class and coursework actually interesting. This enabled me to find a decent job pretty easily in an industry that I enjoy working in whilst earning decent coin.

[jblair182]

Knowing several people who've taken social science modules, across two different universities and from science and social science backgrounds, I can safely say you can be self-taught it.

 

I'm not trying to be condescending btw. They're just mine, and loads of other folk's experiences.

 

You can only self-teach to a point. To really understand a subject hours of face-to-face contact with experts in the subject (lecturers and tutors) and classmates also experiencing the same learning process are vital.

 

I studied Accountancy at uni and during my second year of I was working part-time in a casino. The late hours resulted in my attendance record dropping substantially, for the whole year it was probably about 40%. That year I relied heavily on the online materials and my results were horrendous compared to the other years. While I still passed all my modules I was rocking D's and C' rater than A's and B's.

 

It's amazing how much you take in at lectures and tutorials even if you don't realise it at the time.

[i8hibsh]

Did you not start a thread a while ago that (to sum it up) amounted to;

 

Ah went tae uni and drank a lot and didnae go

 

ah dropped out

 

it wis pish

 

now ahv got a joab that lets me travel

 

ye dinnae need yoooonnneeee

 

Or words to that effect? Whilst I agree with the your argument in some sense, you are to far the other way for me.

 

Things that Universities offer that cannot be taught or learned online (assuming youre an 18 year old who has moved out for the first time)

 

- Social Integration

- Discussion Skills

- Confidence Building

 

Thats just three things you cannot learn online. University isnt just about learning a course. Whilst the OP's point is a good one, this type of learning already exists (THE OPEN UNIVERSITY?!?!) but its no substitute for the real thing.

 

 

 

I'm many things my man but I certainly am no schemey and most definately do not speak like one.

 

I also never dropped out of University.

 

However you are right with certain things. I did drink a lot however, and I do have a job that I do a lot of travelling in.

[Johanes de Silentio]

Personally, I'd like to see government-funded vocational training for young folk in this country - something like apprenticeship schemes where we can actually equip people with skills and knowledge.

 

At the moment, we're having to recruit skilled people from outwith the country - that's all very well, but (1) it means ignoring a large chunk of our population who are unskilled, and ain't going anywhere - they'll still have to claim benefits, etc, and (2) our economy can't sustain the population that's already here, never mind incomers.

 

This is not an anti-foreigner/racist rant - I just think it's silly to ignore people who are on the career scrapheap due to a lack of proper training, when they may well have a lot to offer once they are skilled and better motivated.

 

It's not all about vocational training, though - surely, our collective culture is enriched by the study of Philosophy, Literature, Languages, etc?

 

A lot of degrees are a waste of time, though - my History degree helped me to get my current job, but I'll never actually use it.

 

I do think that doctors, lawyers, accountants, architects, economists, etc, probably need to be educated to at least degree level, mind.

[The Brow]

I'm many things my man but I certainly am no schemey and most definately do not speak like one.

 

I also never dropped out of University.

 

However you are right with certain things. I did drink a lot however, and I do have a job that I do a lot of travelling in.

 

Dont fret, it was entirely to wind you up. Dropped out/got a 3rd, both the same.

[Das Root]

Im my opinion it isnt. I undertook a computing degree from 2001-2005 and learned skills that were completely up to date. The teaching was first class and coursework actually interesting. This enabled me to find a decent job pretty easily in an industry that I enjoy working in whilst earning decent coin.

 

 

You obviously didn't go to Strathclyde then However I had long finished by the time you were starting and in the 00's the internet was essential and programming in Eiffel and Scheme was hopefully something you didn't experience as it was simply a waste of a term.

 

I kid you not. We had a lecturer who taught you **** all and whose exams were pulled from his arse the day before. For two years we had him. All we had to do was turn up to the exam and fill in our names. Blanket 40% passmark as nobody had a clue, the exams had no bearing on the course at all. He was only there for the research grant and had to teach to get it. Didn't give two sh*ts about his classes. Low-level programming, might as well have been hieroglyphics.

[i8hibsh]

Dont fret, it was entirely to wind you up. Dropped out/got a 3rd, both the same.

 

 

how now brown cow

 

I 'studied' Tourism Management so at the end of the day dropping out would've made no difference to my life today as I work in investments.

 

This is no word of a lie, and I am sure it comes as a surprise to nobody, but I chose Tourism Managament (as a fresh faced 18 year old) as I heard it was going to be easy (which it was) and there were lots of hot birds (which there weren't)

 

Now 16 years later the last reason i'd do anything for is due to it being 'easy'. I'm very much a 'doer' in life.

 

I'm not anti University, infact i'm highly for it, my problem is doss courses like the one I did.

 

The OP is spot on, we do need to sit down and weigh up what exactly is and isn't viable.

 

As people who study TRUE University courses( which get my heartfelt respects) which serve an actual purpose and is not something that can be learnt 'on the job', require financial backing.

 

People who 'study' the Mickey mouse course that I do require and deserve nothing. In an ideal world perhaps but these are hard times.

 

Incidentally, what is happening in Greece right now to ?get around? their economic hardship is fantastic. They have these centres where people go and swap skills, clothes etc ? basically anything.

 

For example, a family have a son who is wanting to learn English. The parents take him to the centre 5 times a week and he gets taught English in exchange for his mother (a hairdresser) cutting people?s hair. People swap clothes - it?s quite heartening and inspirational. They are obviously doing that out of circumstance and not desire but there?s something in it.

 

I had an idea which I shared with my girlfriend just recently. I want to take 2 weeks off in the summer and find a tradesman that needs a dogs body free of charge for a couple of weeks. I?d give him 2 weeks free labour and I?d get 2 weeks experience and knowledge of a trade. As at this precise moment I am the worst person in the world at D.I.Y.

[Das Root]

I had an idea which I shared with my girlfriend just recently. I want to take 2 weeks off in the summer and find a tradesman that needs a dogs body free of charge for a couple of weeks. I?d give him 2 weeks free labour and I?d get 2 weeks experience and knowledge of a trade. As at this precise moment I am the worst person in the world at D.I.Y.

 

 

So are you swapping the missus for a 2wk ride in return for some DIY training?

[i8hibsh]

So are you swapping the missus for a 2wk ride in return for some DIY training?

 

 

We could have a JKB wife swap

[Das Root]

We could have a JKB wife swap

 

 

Given some of the posters, that would be a frightening experience.

[The Gasman]

Lots of focus on education with the extension of fees and the issue of useless degrees for thousands of students.

 

Is it not about time that a progressive government took the bull by the horns and implemented the following:

 

 

Compile a list of degree courses that meet the most valuable future skills needs of the country.

 

Create online courses for each course, with video lectures, course/subject forums with a resident "lecturer/course tutor".

 

Open up these online course materials to each and every member of society as it costs nothing to allow access to the materials.

 

Take applications for "assisted study" where the student receives additional assistance from the course tutor.

 

Create a culture of self motivated study and co-operative study where people use message boards and discussion forums to further their study.

 

I am sure that a system like this could be created for less than the cost of running 2 bricks and mortar universities. The opportunity to study to degree level would be available to each and every citizen and sitting the exams could be subject to a relatively small fee (say 200-300 pound). People would be much more likely to study part-time and overall the population and society would benefit.

 

I would certainly vote for a party that promised to implement such a system.

 

Is that not the Open University you're describing?

[Ulysses]

I did drink a lot however.....

 

Great post I8.

[Guest C00l K1d]

See with this E-learning, is it all online, or do you still go to some lectures just not as many?

[Boris]

I understand that, but the cost of taking a degree in this format is no less than the cost of attending university. My point is that for some bread and butter type degrees in Maths, the sciences, economics, psychology etc. (the degrees that people can actually use in real life) that you could say that developing these online courses would be a (close to) one off effort to create materials that could be given away free to anyone who wanted to use them. (After all, as citizens the money spent on creating them is collected from all of the population so why shouldn't the education courses be seen as public property).

 

If people wanted to pay for assistance from tutors, all well and good, but you'd also find that message boards would spring up with help offered for self motivated students. I could easily imagine there being a sub-board on the likes of JKB for anyone self-studying one of these courses. Just like all the other assistance given on the board there would be no shortage of people willing to help. Imagine that the programme was to be launched with 4 degree courses available - Maths, Economics, an Engineering degree and one in the Arts. With a Wikipedia type level of moderation you'd soon find a wide range of study aids springing up from people online willing to offer assistance to those keen to study. People would make YouTube videos explaining a tricky equation or a concept in international finance, others would critique a students essays/assignments. Once a few waves of people had been through this system there'd be hundreds of people putting back into the system for future generations to benefit in the same way.

 

 

 

To provide the basis for a truly "free" degree level education would cost relatively little. It could and would have the potential to completely changes peoples attitude towards education and it would, for once, be a bold step taken by government for the genuine good of the people.

 

 

But you will still need the following to run an online course:

 

Admin staff: to manage programmes, modules etc, manage matriculation

Finance: Fees, student awards

Academic Staff: to prepare the material, to deliver the material, to mark coursework and exams

Library: to provide the quality resources required for the student to produce academically acceptable work

IT Support: to run the VLE (Virtual Learning Environment), process student network accounts

 

So once you have a buidling to house these people, perhaps you could add in some lecture rooms and teaching space and if this is the case why not invite full time attendance courses to maximise use of the facilities?

 

I'd also be concerned about the quality of work produced by students in the way you describe. Opening itself up to calls of plagiarism if peers are discussing things, and gaining an understanding based on peer support. While this already happens to an extent, the fact you have access to tutors/lecturers makes things clearer.

 

Access to online academic journals is essential but you don't seem to say how these would be paid for.

 

With the greatest respect what you describe sounds like a "wikipedia degree" rather than a a proper degree that has been through quality assessment and assurance.