hmfc_liam06 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Sitting watching Inter v Genoa on ESPN and the commentator has just revealed that Inter were selling tickets for 5 Euros. Astonishing prices when you consider the talent on show and you compare it to the prices for a Scottish Cup match. Factor in the pricing of the Bundesliga and you can see why Scottish football is on its knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossmaroon Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 A couple of years back I went to an Inter v Juventus match in Milan and paid only 14 euros (?10) for a top of the table clash. In Germany there are always some seats at budget prices for most games. However, In Spain it will cost you ?45 and upwards to watch Real (from the Gods) and in England I have just paid ?50 for a Fulham v Chelsea ticket. Arsenal charge up to ?96 per ticket. So, it would seem that we are not the cheapest, but not the dearest by any means. I happen to agree that football is pricing itself into oblivion, but if the cost of tickets were to be capped/reduced the knock-on would be lower paid/lower quality players and inevitably some return to semi-pro football. For me an even bigger worry is who is going to support the game when we have gone? Young people are not interested in football to the degree we were and even if they are happy to say they "support" a team, few will bother to go and watch even if the ticket is free. We often have the odd spare ticket available on the Glasgow bus, but find it very difficult to give the tickets away! I think even the Old Firm will be playing to half-empty stadiums every week in the near future and even the Bigot-fests will fail to sell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackal Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 It simple pay players less charge fans less. None of this nonsense of its a short career rubbish. It may well be short but the money some of the guys are on is ridiculous. Scotland will never be a top class league no matter how long it runs. Put a cap on wages for all SPL teams and lets see how many support local teams rather than travel to Glasgow to see teams who buy the league every season. If you pay a reasonable amount to get in you are more likely to go to the game. The prices in Scotland are shocking considering the players we have to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Whittaker's Tache Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Went to see Bayern a couple of years ago ?8 a ticket! Really took the shine of watching Hearts delivering crap two years ago at ?20 a time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five to One Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The game has gone from one ridiculous extreme to another. Before the 90s players had too little power and were exploited by the leagues and clubs. Now the players have too much power and governing bodies and clubs feel powerless to change this. The fans are always the ones who lose when ironically their the only ones that can pressure change. Until they vote with their feet nothing will be done to sort out the stupid amounts being spent on players wages. Wage caps are the only way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboj Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Absolutely agree with the OP, football in Scotland needs to address the cost issue very quickly. As with other businesses, the cost of watching football should be related to the quality of the product, and I find it hard to believe that 2nd division games in Scotland are worth ?14 a ticket. Charging upwards of ?20 for a single ticket to SPL games is exactly why teams like Aberdeen and Dundee Utd (teams with potentially large fan bases) play in front of half empty stands each week. Hearts have a much greater potential attendance too, if pricing (amongst other things) were to improve. While Hearts have turned around the negative tactics regularly used by previous managers since JJ came back, too many clubs across the UK are focussed on grinding things out rather than playing attacking, entertaining football. Paying ?25 to watch some average players defend and do little else is not appropriate. I firmly believe that fans would, over the course of a season, accept a few defeats if it meant regular, entertaining games. Clubs in Scotland complain about being unable to support player's wages from their revenue streams, but player's wages are only set because clubs are willing to pay it, which in turn is why situations like Leeds, Portsmouth, Dundee and (a few years ago) Motherwell have happened. I know a cap on wage/turnover ratio is on the way, and hopefully this will have an impact. RMs point about the future interest of the next generation of fans is dead on as well. I think this has a lot to do with fans feeling detached from their teams, probably because players are overpaid for doing an easy job, and too many of them behave in a way which is completely unacceptable, both on and off the park. Diving, faking injury, moaning at referees and spending too much time in the tabloids is not helping anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Question for Vlad. Lets say we currently have 10,000 Season Tickets. Could we drop the prices by 20% and sell 12,500 STs which we would need to raise the same amount of income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Question for Vlad. Lets say we currently have 10,000 Season Tickets. Could we drop the prices by 20% and sell 12,500 STs which we would need to raise the same amount of income? But....the costs of stewarding, cleaning up after and policing 12,500 fans are greater than the costs of policing and stewarding 10,000 fans (assuming there is a linear relationship between the two), so whilst revenues might stay the same, profits would decrease....leaving less money for Hearts to spend on players salaries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Trouble is what evidence there is doesn't suggest there is a huge untapped demand at lower prices. Both Hearts and Hibs have fairly frequently had special price deals for some games without any great impact on attendances. The u-12s ST hugely reduced the cost of taking a couple of kids to the game, but there hasn't been an enormous upsurge in people doing so. One of the weekend cup ties (Hamilton?) had very cheap tickets (?5 and ?3 or something like that) but attracted about 1000 people. It's a nice idea to think that Bundesliga-type prices would fill the grounds (some Serie A attendances are abysmal despite low prices) but I think revenue would plummet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 But....the costs of stewarding, cleaning up after and policing 12,500 fans are greater than the costs of policing and stewarding 10,000 fans (assuming there is a linear relationship between the two), so whilst revenues might stay the same, profits would decrease....leaving less money for Hearts to spend on players salaries... Although, I do remember reading a book about Bayern Munich who try to MINIMISE the number of season tickets sold. They know that they can fill the stadium, and they have a support much bigger than the capacity, so selling the whole stadium full of season ticket holders limits the number of people who get to go to matches. They also find, that season ticket holders will only really go to the club shop once or twice a year, whereas casual fans will ALWAYS go to the shop, so they get to sell loads more merchandise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Whittaker's Tache Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 The Alianz holds 69,000 and while there are seats at 10 euros they are in the minority. Best seat in the place is 60 euros (equivalent of a Tynie "Platinum") http://www.allianz-arena.de/en/service/sitzplaene/ I was sat in Section 116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Although, I do remember reading a book about Bayern Munich who try to MINIMISE the number of season tickets sold. They know that they can fill the stadium, and they have a support much bigger than the capacity, so selling the whole stadium full of season ticket holders limits the number of people who get to go to matches. They also find, that season ticket holders will only really go to the club shop once or twice a year, whereas casual fans will ALWAYS go to the shop, so they get to sell loads more merchandise. This is the crux of the matter. What are the Germans doing that is apparently bucking the trend in attendances? Or are BM simply the OF of the German leagues and sucking fans in from elsewhere ? And once again I feel I have to scream. After 2 years of supposedly painstaking research have you any idea why that is Mr McLeish ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Macaroons Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Its well overpriced Cetics protest (another one) at Killie springs to mind, and on that score they were bang on empty stands at Tynie and Ibrox ( season ticket holders ob think so as they dont go when faced with the reality of paying for a ticket) show that something needs to change, esp when compared abroad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Sitting watching Inter v Genoa on ESPN and the commentator has just revealed that Inter were selling tickets for 5 Euros. Astonishing prices when you consider the talent on show and you compare it to the prices for a Scottish Cup match. Factor in the pricing of the Bundesliga and you can see why Scottish football is on its knees. According to the Guardian, 50% of Hearts' turnover comes from gate receipts. If ticket prices were slashed as you suggest and taking the leap of faith that we would get significantly higher costs (which is questionable), where would these people sit? We wouldn't have the money to expand the stadium. Scottish football would become even more of a backwater, as clubs would see revenues plummet, and their ability to attract any sort of half-decent players disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAberdeen Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Fundamental question is, do you want to follow a league where only two teams have realistic chance to win the league? And, farce league structure, I mean, split. With one promotion/relegation, pretty much same teams play each other every seasons. Crap quality. 'the best league in the world' is nearby. People are not blind nor stupid. (in general) They won't spend their money/time on a game at any price where entertainment value of SPL is effectively now down to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Its well overpriced Cetics protest (another one) at Killie springs to mind, and on that score they were bang on empty stands at Tynie and Ibrox ( season ticket holders ob think so as they dont go when faced with the reality of paying for a ticket) show that something needs to change, esp when compared abroad. The thing is, it was well overpriced in 05-06 and 06-07, yet we still managed to sell a lot more tickets than we have this year. We need to believe we have the opportunity to win things to bring in the fans (or even qualify for the CL). Right now, we are playing well, winning games, but our crowds are still down 20% compared to 06-07. In fact, our crowds are well down on even what Csaba's team was bringing in. JJ might not like it, but talking up our chances of winning the league will draw in more punters. Or, seeing as actions speak louder than words, we need to beat the OF and still be within a realistic shout of the league in Feb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Fundamental question is, do you want to follow a league where only two teams have realistic chance to win the league? And, farce league structure, I mean, split. With one promotion/relegation, pretty much same teams play each other every seasons. Crap quality. 'the best league in the world' is nearby. People are not blind nor stupid. (in general) They won't spend their money/time on a game at any price where entertainment value of SPL is effectively now down to zero. I'm not sure if this is the real reason though. We cant blame the OF for OUR crowds being poor. Since 05-06, our crowds have been as good as they have been at any time since the 1960's. In fact, we have been "better" given that we no longer have the 25,000+ crowds bumping up our average along with crowds of 7,000 (as we had in 85/86). Our crowds vs Rangers or Celtic are not much more than our crowds against teams St Johnstone or Dundee Utd - whereas there was an 18,000 difference back then... This is despite the fact that only 2 teams have won the league in the last 25 years and we now have a split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAberdeen Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I'm not sure if this is the real reason though. We cant blame the OF for OUR crowds being poor. Since 05-06, our crowds have been as good as they have been at any time since the 1960's. In fact, we have been "better" given that we no longer have the 25,000+ crowds bumping up our average along with crowds of 7,000 (as we had in 85/86). Our crowds vs Rangers or Celtic are not much more than our crowds against teams St Johnstone or Dundee Utd - whereas there was an 18,000 difference back then... This is despite the fact that only 2 teams have won the league in the last 25 years and we now have a split. I think 05/06 is an exception rather than rule. Yes we had considerably bigger crowd that time. But what happened since then? And how about other teams at the same period? That season is a rare case, when a team seriously stood up to challenge the duopoly which created much excitement in the league. But that was done by an external factor, Vlad, which will be more difficult to repeat in the future due to Financial fair play scheme, and you cant deny that overall SPL is in decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Fundamental question is, do you want to follow a league where only two teams have realistic chance to win the league? And, farce league structure, I mean, split. With one promotion/relegation, pretty much same teams play each other every seasons. Crap quality. 'the best league in the world' is nearby. People are not blind nor stupid. (in general) They won't spend their money/time on a game at any price where entertainment value of SPL is effectively now down to zero. Indeed. And many fans don't go to SPL games for entertainment - I know I certainly don't. Whether a ticket cost 25 or 5 pounds would have little bearing on whether I attended or not, but I realise everyone is different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 It simple pay players less charge fans less. None of this nonsense of its a short career rubbish. It may well be short but the money some of the guys are on is ridiculous. Scotland will never be a top class league no matter how long it runs. Put a cap on wages for all SPL teams and lets see how many support local teams rather than travel to Glasgow to see teams who buy the league every season. If you pay a reasonable amount to get in you are more likely to go to the game. The prices in Scotland are shocking considering the players we have to watch. Whilst in essence I agree with you, in reality thats bull. It would require a universal wage cap. Otherwise even the top quality in the SPL( Miller, Temps, Riordan?) would simply be elsewhere where they would get much higher wages. We cna accept 1 of 2 things; we are a small league with a small fan base so small prices are a neccesity, or we are a big league where we can charge large prices. I would love to see us go the way of bundesliga but we simply dont have the sponsorship and tv money in place to support that type of infrastructure. For what its worth I dont think Hearts are excessively expensive but then again I get student tickets, concessions, so maybe not in the best place to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 We cna accept 1 of 2 things; we are a small league with a small fan base so small prices are a neccesity, or we are a big league where we can charge large prices. No really sure I follow this...so is the Bundesliga a big league charging, er, small prices??? If so, where does that into the two choices?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 But....the costs of stewarding, cleaning up after and policing 12,500 fans are greater than the costs of policing and stewarding 10,000 fans (assuming there is a linear relationship between the two), so whilst revenues might stay the same, profits would decrease....leaving less money for Hearts to spend on players salaries... But it is not directly proportionate. I'd say that an increase in crowd by 2.5% does not need a 2.5% increase in policing/stewarding. In fact when Hearts were selling out ST's in the Roseburn Stand and reducing tickets to the OF, you could argue that the reduced number of 'away' supporters meant less police. It is all about the product and how you sell it. The crowds were higher when Firework Phil was the CEO as he put money (too much according to Vlad) into selling the club to the customer. A decent team winning games by attractive football helped. Clubs in the SPL (including the OF) cannot compete with England, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc. when it comes to revenue. The only way forward is to put a cap on squad size and budgets. We all agree that Hearts have an oversized squad, so players would have to leave BEFORE new players are brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 No really sure I follow this...so is the Bundesliga a big league charging, er, small prices??? If so, where does that into the two choices?? Did you deliberately leave out the rest of my post? The bundesliga has significant sources of income that we simply do not have access to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Did you deliberately leave out the rest of my post? Yes - I was responded to one part of it. Without the sort of significant sources of income the Bundesliga has, how could the SPL ever be a "big league". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Templeton'sUnderpants Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yes - I was responded to one part of it. Without the sort of significant sources of income the Bundesliga has, how could the SPL ever be a "big league". I dont think it can, nor do I think this is a huge issue considering the size of Scotland in general. My personal feelings are that we should accept that we are a relatively small league and as such should have low ticket prices. but would the fans accept that? not a chance. we have some belief in scotland that we should be better than we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I dont think it can, nor do I think this is a huge issue considering the size of Scotland in general. My personal feelings are that we should accept that we are a relatively small league and as such should have low ticket prices. but would the fans accept that? not a chance. we have some belief in scotland that we should be better than we are. Fair enough. I don't agree with this idea that ticket prices in a league in a small country should be any cheaper than in bigger countries (if that is what you are suggesting). As a Hearts fan, I'm willing to pay the same to see my team play as I would be if I was a Tottenham fan, or a Valencia fan, or a Roma fan. I said earlier on this thread - I don't go to Hearts games for entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 But it is not directly proportionate. I'd say that an increase in crowd by 2.5% does not need a 2.5% increase in policing/stewarding. In fact when Hearts were selling out ST's in the Roseburn Stand and reducing tickets to the OF, you could argue that the reduced number of 'away' supporters meant less police. It is all about the product and how you sell it. The crowds were higher when Firework Phil was the CEO as he put money (too much according to Vlad) into selling the club to the customer. A decent team winning games by attractive football helped. I agree that it is not directly proportionate, but it still holds true that increasing crowds by 25% mean that there are more support personnel costs. I also agree that marketing plays a HUGE part in building our crowds up. And our ability to "compete" at certain levels. When we "compete" at the very top of the SPL we can get crowds of 15000-18000, when the best we can do is compete for 3rd place, we seem to get crowds between 11,000-14,000 - when we don't even think we'll be able to get 3rd place (hsitorically) our crowds drop to around 10,000. Back in Div 1, we dropped again further. If the fans believe we can compete, then they come to watch. All about basking in the reflected glory of being part of a winning team (or some such psycho-nonsense). This year it seems that, even though we're doing really well, not enough people think we can actually compete for the title, so our crowds are lower than they were in the last few good years (or 97-98 or 05-06 ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydney Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 As a Hearts fan, I'm willing to pay the same to see my team play as I would be if I was a Tottenham fan, or a Valencia fan, or a Roma fan. I said earlier on this thread - I don't go to Hearts games for entertainment. As fans, we dont go for entertainment - we want to see our team winning. I dont even want to see a close game, I'd like to see us pumping everyone by lots of goals. Entertainment comes sometimes, but it is the feeling of scoring, or winning that we go for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasavallan Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 If the fans believe we can compete, then they come to watch. All about basking in the reflected glory of being part of a winning team (or some such psycho-nonsense). This year it seems that, even though we're doing really well, not enough people think we can actually compete for the title, so our crowds are lower than they were in the last few good years (or 97-98 or 05-06 ). 2005 was a special case, IMO. We had the insecurity under the Pieman in the previous years then we get Foulkes, Anderton, Romanov, Burley, new players, etc. There was euphoria that made many switherers decide to buy STs. It may be a case for many of "once bitten, twice shy". The change in the team's form from Laslo to JJ was not immediate. If Hearts had played for the later part of last season under JJ as they are now then STs sales may have been higher. If Rudi (and Hartley) had been brought in at the end of last season then I suspect ST sales would have increased, too. Hearts have been winning this season, but in many cases it has not been pretty to watch. A couple of wins over the OF in the coming weeks may do wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAberdeen Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Fair enough. I don't agree with this idea that ticket prices in a league in a small country should be any cheaper than in bigger countries (if that is what you are suggesting). As a Hearts fan, I'm willing to pay the same to see my team play as I would be if I was a Tottenham fan, or a Valencia fan, or a Roma fan. I said earlier on this thread - I don't go to Hearts games for entertainment. Agree with the ticket price point. Think smaller countries have to keep ticket price the same or higher level to maintain standard on the product on the pitch. The scenario if SPL playing standard declined, e.g. every team (inc OF) got beaten in Europe at first round, would be that most 'light fans' will desert SPL then switch to watch EPL, Spain or what ever, with only hardcore following their local team. People attend matches to expect 'something'. If it is 'nothing', they'll stop doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I went to a Paris Saint-Germain match for about ?10 a few years ago, I paid more to see Queen of the South play Dundee a couple years ago. ?14 for a terracing in a Scottish Division 1 match Ticket prices are ridiculous for what you're actually getting to see. With a fairer pricing system and a more sensible wage structure we'd see a few more bums on the seats. Perhaps if it was agreed to cap the cost of tickets to ?10 and allow clubs to nominate three category A games for ?15 a head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I suspect there is little or no proof to suggest that folk will come out in droves for a ?10 a ticket? The kids STs are fantastic value ( ?19 is it ) but even reducing adult prices from say ?20 to ?15, ?13 or even ?10 may not have much if any impact except on a warm August afternoon ? Once again though we need to enquire as to whats happening elsewhere? Are the bundesleague games televised and are they shown Sat / Sun midday times like ourselves? If they are still getting 60,000 at these games then HOW / WHY if a huge number of us just go to the pub? So many questions that reverting to a feckin 10 team league just does not address ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Agree with the ticket price point. Think smaller countries have to keep ticket price the same or higher level to maintain standard on the product on the pitch. The scenario if SPL playing standard declined, e.g. every team (inc OF) got beaten in Europe at first round, would be that most 'light fans' will desert SPL then switch to watch EPL, Spain or what ever, with only hardcore following their local team. People attend matches to expect 'something'. If it is 'nothing', they'll stop doing that. So, the same as now, but cheaper to get in and we can't afford ?10k a week for the likes of Nade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Montgomery Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The Alianz holds 69,000 and while there are seats at 10 euros they are in the minority. Best seat in the place is 60 euros (equivalent of a Tynie "Platinum") http://www.allianz-arena.de/en/service/sitzplaene/ I was sat in Section 116 My experience is similar to yours. I wish I could get all these 'cheap' tickets. We went to Bayern v Hamburg in 2007/2008 and struggled to get two tickets together before we went. My wife managed about a couple of weeks before we were going. We were in block 247 and the face value of the tickets were 50 Euros each. We paid more than that as we had to book through Viagogo. It looked like it was Bayern who were releasing the tickets this way and not coming from ordinary fans. However it was a great weekend with thousands of Hamburg fans there. We are going to Barcelona in March and have booked tickets for Barcelona v Getafe through their official source (ServiCaixa)and the tickets are 42 Euros each plus a small (5 Euro) service charge. These are for section 420 (row 3 in the top tier). Again we are looking forward to it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 I suspect there is little or no proof to suggest that folk will come out in droves for a ?10 a ticket? The kids STs are fantastic value ( ?19 is it ) but even reducing adult prices from say ?20 to ?15, ?13 or even ?10 may not have much if any impact except on a warm August afternoon ? Once again though we need to enquire as to whats happening elsewhere? Are the bundesleague games televised and are they shown Sat / Sun midday times like ourselves? If they are still getting 60,000 at these games then HOW / WHY if a huge number of us just go to the pub? So many questions that reverting to a feckin 10 team league just does not address ! Some facts about the Bundesliga that might contribute to higher attendances 1. 5 different clubs have been Champions in the last 10 years (Spain 3, England 3, Italy 4, Holland 4, Scotland 2) 2. average ticket prices 19 euros = ?16.00 at current exchange rates 3. 62% German players / 38% other Nationals - this is the highest percentage of any major league in Europe - in England it's almost the opposite 4. Clubs are 51% owned by member & supporter groups - no company can own more than 49% of any club 5. financial fair play rules limit clubs spending and debts in relation to the money they generate. basically german football is less fecked up by money and greed compared to elsewhere - clubs also produce more german players to help their national team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ribble Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 But....the costs of stewarding, cleaning up after and policing 12,500 fans are greater than the costs of policing and stewarding 10,000 fans (assuming there is a linear relationship between the two), so whilst revenues might stay the same, profits would decrease....leaving less money for Hearts to spend on players salaries... That would then be offset by increased merchandising and food/drink etc. For example if there is one steward per 100 fans, that steward gets paid say ?35 for a shift with the club being charged say ?60. To cover that 2 in 10 people are required to buy a pie and bovril for ?3! As for the OP regarding Inter's pricing policy, you have to remember that Inter incur massive trading losses every single year! Sure they lost 30m+ last season even with winning the Champions League!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Excellent article here on the regeneration of the Bundesliga http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/07/04/inventing-the-new-germany-youth-development-and-the-bundesliga/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makateer Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The thing is, it was well overpriced in 05-06 and 06-07, yet we still managed to sell a lot more tickets than we have this year. We need to believe we have the opportunity to win things to bring in the fans (or even qualify for the CL). Right now, we are playing well, winning games, but our crowds are still down 20% compared to 06-07. In fact, our crowds are well down on even what Csaba's team was bringing in. JJ might not like it, but talking up our chances of winning the league will draw in more punters. Or, seeing as actions speak louder than words, we need to beat the OF and still be within a realistic shout of the league in Feb. In 05/06 we probably had the cheapest tickets in the SPL while also playing the best football in the league for a good time. I still have the Aberdeen ticket for when we finished 2nd place, I was a student then sitting in the Roseburn and that ticket cost me ?5. A fiver! Same ticket now would cost about ?16 or something for a student price? Tickets were dirt cheap that season. In season 06/07 we gave a couple of thousand tickets away every week to local schoolkids and their parents to sit in the Roseburn, again this inflated attendances but didn't do anything (short term) for profits. We really need to be consistently playing well for fans to turn out in numbers and we simply haven't been doing that in recent years, except for the last few months. Combine that with a recession and you can see the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcapital Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 surely this financial fair play thing is total crap? whats stopping teams from setting up shell companies to pay players extra on top of their club wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambonian Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Sitting watching Inter v Genoa on ESPN and the commentator has just revealed that Inter were selling tickets for 5 Euros. Astonishing prices when you consider the talent on show and you compare it to the prices for a Scottish Cup match. Factor in the pricing of the Bundesliga and you can see why Scottish football is on its knees. I paid ?44 for two tickets for that St Johnstone Cup game, my mate couldn't make it, phoned up two others, they didn't fancy going so ended up going along on my own, even though i couldn't really be bothered with it, worst ?44 i've ever wasted, the annoying thing was that, although my mate couldn't make it because he's a long distance lorry driver, the others i phoned could see that result coming and had no intention of going anyway! Last time i buy tickets a few days in advance, from now on i'll buy them on the day, ripped off no more!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 surely this financial fair play thing is total crap? whats stopping teams from setting up shell companies to pay players extra on top of their club wages? Nothing I suppose but the football clubs couldn't then be liable to make those payments or any debts of those companies could they - they would have to be financed by some other source of funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 As fans, we dont go for entertainment - we want to see our team winning. I dont even want to see a close game, I'd like to see us pumping everyone by lots of goals. Entertainment comes sometimes, but it is the feeling of scoring, or winning that we go for. Of course you do. By seeing Hearts pump a team then you are being entertained. That feeling, the buzz you get is from being entertained by whats on the field. Football is entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcapital Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Nothing I suppose but the football clubs couldn't then be liable to make those payments or any debts of those companies could they - they would have to be financed by some other source of funds. fair point but how many of the bigger clubs are now funded from outside sources these days? teams like man city, chelsea etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 That would then be offset by increased merchandising and food/drink etc. For example if there is one steward per 100 fans, that steward gets paid say ?35 for a shift with the club being charged say ?60. To cover that 2 in 10 people are required to buy a pie and bovril for ?3! As for the OP regarding Inter's pricing policy, you have to remember that Inter incur massive trading losses every single year! Sure they lost 30m+ last season even with winning the Champions League!! Yes they are making losses however that wasn't the point of my OP. My point is that they significantly dropped the prices of a ticket in order to get a crowd in. Which is something I think Scottish football as a whole could take a look at. Bayern Munich's model for example is something that can be looked at as well. Its all well and good saying they could charge X amount I would still go but how many actually would? I think the stadium would be deserted. At the end of the day, more punters through the doors = more dosh in the coffers. The only expense I could see for all clubs is increased stewarding which would be more than offset by increased purchases of merchandise, programmes and food/drink. Hearts do buck the trend in terms of attendances however my point is regarding Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 fair point but how many of the bigger clubs are now funded from outside sources these days? teams like man city, chelsea etc Financial fair play rules govern and limit how much clubs can spend compared to the money the generate - they can't just tap the owners to subsidise massive spending/financial losses. Man City say massive spending is over. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/11/uefa-footballpolitics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcapital Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 But theres nothing stoppin owners payin players out of their own pockets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Dover Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 So if the Hearts were playing fantastic football etc etc AND we had a 65k stadium then we could conceivably market our platinum seats at ?50 - ?70 ............thus allowing us to offer ?7 seats at most games too? Right then..................?25 it is then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 But theres nothing stoppin owners payin players out of their own pockets? Yes but that would have to be a private arrangement between the owners and the player they would bear the risk - so the football club wouldn't be liable to make those payments then & it wouldn't & couldn't be included in their financial accounts. If Owner X wants to top up player Y salary by Z thousand per week then that is a matter between player and owner the money couldn't come out of the football clubs money or be added to their debts. If the owner got into trouble and couldn't make those payments the player would have to sue the owner for compensation he couldn't demand that money from the football club so the clubs would be financially protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leginten Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 This is the crux of the matter. What are the Germans doing that is apparently bucking the trend in attendances? Or are BM simply the OF of the German leagues and sucking fans in from elsewhere ? And once again I feel I have to scream. After 2 years of supposedly painstaking research have you any idea why that is Mr McLeish ?? CB's post above outlines many of the reasons for this bucking of the trend. I'd add to this the fact that fans are generally regarded as being important by their clubs; far from simply being the cash cow they are in the SPL - where the paying customer is always the very last consideration for the authorities and the clubs - they expect to have influence, to be consulted and can be expected to protest and revolt if they feel they are being treated with disrespect. A healthy relationship, in short. With regard to Bayern, they do have a huge number of what would be termed here "glory hunters" in their support. People all over Germany who're maybe not passionate enough about football to go along and support their local club will choose to "follow" Bayern. But Bayern are geographically quite remote from most of their Bundesliga rivals and it would be wrong to suggest that they impact directly on the attendances of other clubs. Currently there is only one other Bundesliga 1 club, N?rnberg, in Bavaria, and the next nearest are places like Frankfurt and Stuttgart - not exactly a short hop. Dortmund pull in far more than Bayern for every home game, and Schalke run them close. Attendances everywhere are healthy, even at a newish, slightly artificial club like Hoffenheim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyCropper Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That would then be offset by increased merchandising and food/drink etc. For example if there is one steward per 100 fans, that steward gets paid say ?35 for a shift with the club being charged say ?60. To cover that 2 in 10 people are required to buy a pie and bovril for ?3! As for the OP regarding Inter's pricing policy, you have to remember that Inter incur massive trading losses every single year! Sure they lost 30m+ last season even with winning the Champions League!! Wouldnt work because Hearts arent taking in all the money from food remember. Hearts dont make the pies. Its contracted to possibly the worst pie makers in the world but thats an arguement for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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