Falkirk goalie - accidental hand ball??

[Devries4]

Couldn't see it that well, but on the radio after they reckoned it may have been accidental or Richmond just never saw it.

 

Hmmm, too early in the match to give Hearts any kind of an advantage I think.

 

PS I'm not just using it as an excuse cos we were pretty unimaginative today.

[Coco]

Couldn't see it that well, but on the radio after they reckoned it may have been accidental or Richmond just never saw it.

 

Hmmm, too early in the match to give Hearts any kind of an advantage I think.

 

PS I'm not just using it as an excuse cos we were pretty unimaginative today.

 

I had forgotten about that.

 

I thought he dived and basically saved it. How the linesman in particular didn't see it was ridiculous.

[Praha06]

Couldn't see it that well, but on the radio after they reckoned it may have been accidental or Richmond just never saw it.

 

Hmmm, too early in the match to give Hearts any kind of an advantage I think.

 

PS I'm not just using it as an excuse cos we were pretty unimaginative today.

 

BBC Radio Scotland's Allan Preston believed it shouldve been a free kick for Hearts and possibly a red card for the keeper. Hearts World thought it was accidental.

[Commander Harris]

he came out of his area and assumed a star like stance in order to try and block the ball. he achieved that goal.

 

stone wall hand ball.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

he came out of his area and assumed a star like stance in order to try and block the ball. he achieved that goal.

 

stone wall hand ball.

 

 

How do stars stand?

[Commander Harris]

How do stars stand?

 

very good.

 

I'm sure you know what I mean.

[Rick Grimes]

does it matter if its intentional? 'keeper handballs outside his box blocking a clear goal-scoring opportunity.

 

straight red.

[Sherlock]

Sticking your hand out to block the ball can hardly be accidental.

[Commander Harris]

Sticking your hand out to block the ball can hardly be accidental.

 

exactly. like I said, he positioned himself in such a way as to try and block the ball - with outstretched arms. hand ball.

 

[Sherlock]

 

Yup, his stance was identical to this.

[Coco]

A sending off for the goalie would have made a big difference to the game.

 

Our underpowered and lightweight midfield might actually have done better as Falkirk would have had to take someone out of there (the area where they always dominate us).

[Flux]

was he wearing a hat too?

[The Merse]

All I want to know is why the heck did Miko not just take the ball past the keeper?

 

That had to be the easier option in that situation?

[Coco]

All I want to know is why the heck did Miko not just take the ball past the keeper?

 

That had to be the easier option in that situation?

 

Did we have any other chances other than that one and the one Elliot missed when Kenny Milne played him through nicely?

[super_vlad]

All I want to know is why the heck did Miko not just take the ball past the keeper?

 

That had to be the easier option in that situation?

 

Because he was falling down, the best options was to chip it over him as he was sliding down. IT WAS A STONE WALL PEN !

[Coco]

Because he was falling down, the best options was to chip it over him as he was sliding down. IT WAS A STONE WALL PEN !

 

With the goalkeeper out of the box?

[Ryan Gosling]

A sending off for the goalie would have made a big difference to the game.

 

Our underpowered and lightweight midfield might actually have done better as Falkirk would have had to take someone out of there (the area where they always dominate us).

 

It wouldn't really. We still wouldn't have scored.

[JamboJay]

From whereI was sitting in Wheatfield 'B' he raised his arm, the ball struck it on its way goalward. Definitely a foul, with an automatic red card to boot.

 

I really don't know if it would have given us an advatage though, but it was the only point in the game that got me bothered enough to get up from my seat and shout.

 

Poor, poor game from which we got all we deserved

[Coco]

It wouldn't really. We still wouldn't have scored.

 

Well we might have had a better chance.

 

We played with 4 'forward' players today. Elliot/Mole, Chesney/Ksnavicius, Miko and Kingston. Of that group only Miko played well.

 

Our midfield 2 were totally outgunned by Falkirk. They might have been less outgunned if Falkirk were only 2 on 2 rather than 3 on 2 all the time. Who knows. Our chances of scoring would certainly have gone up if Ksnavicius was replaced.

 

I was well up for Banksy going up front with Basso on for Ksnavicius.

[N User]

if it hit his hand then it's a red card since his arms seemed to be out.

I just presumed the ref/lino believed it was chest.

[Bindy Badgy]

does it matter if its intentional? 'keeper handballs outside his box blocking a clear goal-scoring opportunity.

 

straight red.

 

Yes. Ball to hand isn't a foul, hand to ball is.

[Sherlock]

Yes. Ball to hand isn't a foul, hand to ball is.

 

No such thing.

[N User]

Yes. Ball to hand isn't a foul, hand to ball is.

 

It all depends on the perception of the word "intentional".

The natural meaning of "intentional" (or deliberate is sometimes used) is that the person actually means to handle the ball.

 

The difference in what referees give hand ball is that they see "intentional" as being the position of the player's arms are in.

[Bindy Badgy]

It all depends on the perception of the word "intentional".

The natural meaning of "intentional" (or deliberate is sometimes used) is that the person actually means to handle the ball.

 

The difference in what referees give hand ball is that they see "intentional" as being the position of the player's arms are in.

 

Sticking your arms out as the ball is being kicked on the off chance that it hits them is just as intentional as punching the ball in my book:)

[maltese jambo]

dunno what incident everyone else saw but from where i was it hit his chest and no danger was it a hand ball.

 

ok so he had his hands out...what do you want him to do? chop them off?

[Mr Quagmire]

what ? he accidentally handled it outside the box ???? WTF

 

he should have been sent off. simple.

[N User]

Sticking your arms out as the ball is being kicked on the off chance that it hits them is just as intentional as punching the ball in my book:)

 

egg ****ing sactly and the refs see it the same way.

[Beverley]

so does it still need to be an "accident" or does it need to be interpreted as one for it to be a red?

 

 

i haven't seen it yet so can't comment, but as far as i know it needs to NOT be accidental for it to be a red

[Whitley Jambo]

I sit in the Roseburn, Section J, perfect view of incident, clear deliberate handball by the keeper, 100%, and everyone around me shouted for it. No doubt in my mind whatsoever. How ref and assistant missed it is beyond me.

[DETTY29]

Surely it depends how unnatural a position your hands are in?

 

Also, as soon as keepers come out of their box, their method of tackling should be the same as an outfield player. If a player made himslef 'big' and the ball hits his arm, he would risk a booking/red dependent on the goalscoring opportunity. Similarly sliding body first would be a free kick, potential booking offence for dangerous play/ungentlemanly conduct.

[Juanimator]

Yes. Ball to hand isn't a foul, hand to ball is.

 

Same thing happened in the second half with Miko (akin to Barry the Neds handball against us in the LC) ball bounced up and hit Miko's hand - ref gave a foul.

How can one be a foul and the other isn't ?

[N User]

so does it still need to be an "accident" or does it need to be interpreted as one for it to be a red?

 

 

i haven't seen it yet so can't comment, but as far as i know it needs to NOT be accidental for it to be a red

 

The intent only decides if it is a foul.

You decide whether it is a red card if it stops a "clear goalscoring opportunity". Since Miko's shot was going goalward into an empty net, then it's a red.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

If a goalkeeper spreads himself and goes to ground he is clearly intentionally putting himself in a position where the ball may be stopped by his arms or hands, it is therefore deliberate and should have been interpreted as such by the referee.

 

The ref must have saw it as the play was very open so no excuse for players obstructing his view. The linesman must also have had an excellent view of it.

 

I thought the ref gave us nothing throughout the game. At one point he gave a foul against Neilson for apparently having his foot up, although it was no higher than the Falkirk player's. I counted two two-footed lunges by Falkirk players that did not bring even a free kick never mind at least bookings. We never get anything from the referees now. Stewart was clearly hacked down outside the Falkirk box and Kingston and Mike were constantly hacked down with the ref not taking enough action against Falkirk.

[Gambo]

Yes. Ball to hand isn't a foul, hand to ball is.

 

We know the ref was not using the above rules as he pulled Miko up when the ball scuffed his elbow.

[Gambo]

Anyone seen the incident on tv yet as most of the press are reporting it hit his shoulder/chest.

[Bindy Badgy]

No such thing.

 

http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/095F9568-466D-4D71-ABF5-C1253A1C28FD/122272/FIFALaws2007_08_book.pdf This is a fairly big file (6MB) so it may take a while to load.

 

Page 25

 

"A direct free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player commits any of the following four offences:

 

handles the ball deliberately (except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)"

 

Page 26

 

"A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off and shown the red card if he commits any of the following seven offences:

 

denies the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (this does not apply to a goalkeeper within his own penalty area)"

 

Surely it depends how unnatural a position your hands are in?

 

Also, as soon as keepers come out of their box, their method of tackling should be the same as an outfield player. If a player made himslef 'big' and the ball hits his arm, he would risk a booking/red dependent on the goalscoring opportunity. Similarly sliding body first would be a free kick, potential booking offence for dangerous play/ungentlemanly conduct.

 

Exactly. My understanding is that if the player stuck his arms out to make himself big and the ball hits his arms it's a deliberate handball and a foul. If he keeps his arms by his sides and the ball hits his hands it's unintentional and play should be allowed to continue.

[Francis Albert]

Sticking your hand out to block the ball can hardly be accidental.

 

Otherwise every wall at a free kick would stand with their arms in the air.

[Fozzyonthefence]

so does it still need to be an "accident" or does it need to be interpreted as one for it to be a red?

 

 

i haven't seen it yet so can't comment, but as far as i know it needs to NOT be accidental for it to be a red

 

Correct, bacause if it is accidental it is not even a free kick let alone a red card. That's the rules, it's just that some of our refs don't know the difference.

[jambojim52]

dunno what incident everyone else saw but from where i was it hit his chest and no danger was it a hand ball.

 

ok so he had his hands out...what do you want him to do? chop them off?

 

 

Not being paranoid here, but if it hit his chest and not his hand, do you not think they would have shown it in the highlights programmes, just to **** us off?

Clearly the incident would have changed the game, therefore they do not want to give us any ammunition.

[Erik]

Looked to me like a hand ball.

 

Red card. Free kick to hearts.

 

Stewart would have wasted the free kick.

 

Their subby keeper still wouldnt have had a save to make.

 

End result - still 0-0

[Gambo]

Not being paranoid here, but if it hit his chest and not his hand, do you not think they would have shown it in the highlights programmes, just to **** us off?

Clearly the incident would have changed the game, therefore they do not want to give us any ammunition.

 

Over the last couple of weeks there seems to be a campaign in the press to champion Richmond as one of the best. Think the SFA are worried that a couple of experienced refs are leaving the ranks at the end of this season and are being left with a pile of pooh and are trying to at least give some of that pooh a higher profile with the help of their buddies in the press.

 

If this had happened to Rangers/Celtic we would have 3 or 4 page spreads, tv specials showing it from all angles including NASA satellites.

[Francis Albert]

Anyone seen the incident on tv yet as most of the press are reporting it hit his shoulder/chest.

 

The BBC highlights on the web don't show it. I suppose in a game packed with so much incident they couldn't squeeze everything in.