jkato Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Anyone know anything concrete about the holding/parent company? Google has thrown up a blank and I don't have the privileges to search this forum (apologies if there is a thread after page 8). I can find UKIO stats and their PL figures, but does anyone have the lo-down on UBIG as a corporate entity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craigieboy Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Anyone know anything about concrete about the holding/parent company? Google has thrown up a blank and I don't have the privileges to search this forum (apologies if there is a thread after page 8). I can find UKIO stats and their PL figures, but does anyone have the lo-down on UBIG as a corporate entity? Massive. And brick solid as well. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Massive. And brick solid as well. . Big team, uBIG holding/parent company. Wee team, wee holding/parent company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjamjolly Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'm sure one of the hoboeconomists will have all the answers you're looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 http://www.ubig.lt/index.php?lang=2 There web page. Thanks to successfully implemented medium and large size investment projects ŪBIG activities are developing rapidly. At the end of 2006 the assets of all ŪBIG controlled companies amounted to LTL 1.85 billion (Eur 537 million). During the last year the turnover of those companies amounted to LTL 1.35 billion (Eur 392 million). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkato Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 http://www.ubig.lt/index.php?lang=2 There web page. These figures mean that we are a fair percentage of their T/O! It's through the UBIG site, so they may have a Charlie Mannesque PR guru doing his/her bit to appease the masses. I would like to see audited figures. ?37M is a lot of dosh, on any companies books! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bn jambo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 JKATO = hobo ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 JKATO = hobo ???? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 If there turnover is 300m euros with assets worth 500m euros ,them a debt of ?37m is nothing and easily covered ,i expect we are likely not the only debt covered by the groups business interests. I think the financial experts have got it about right our debt is too much but managable as long as UBIG are still wanting to cover it.I have seen no information to say that UBIGS finances are at any more risk than any other industry in the current climate.Not that there is that much information avaliable to go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 If there turnover is 300m euros with assets worth 500m euros ,them a debt of ?37m is nothing and easily covered ,i expect we are likely not the only debt covered by the groups business interests.I think the financial experts have got it about right our debt is too much but managable as long as UBIG are still wanting to cover it.I have seen no information to say that UBIGS finances are at any more risk than any other industry in the current climate.Not that there is that much information avaliable to go on. Northern Rock, Bear Stearns.................oh no, its worse than we thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Massive. And brick solid as well. . Any evidence for either statement? Assets of ?537m is not massive, and who knows what their liabilities are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowestjambo Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Any evidence for either statement? Assets of ?537m is not massive, and who knows what their liabilities are? Yeah, some team from Edinburgh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Northern Rock, Bear Stearns.................oh no, its worse than we thought... LOL. 37M is not quite the same level as either of those companies that you mention. Why the Hell would UBIG or UKIO have extraordinary exposure to the US crap mortgage market? Yes the tightening of Credit facilities might bite but not the original credit crunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Any evidence for either statement? Assets of ?537m is not massive, and who knows what their liabilities are? compared to our debts it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eoin999 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 UKIO have a lot of money in metals and mining which are going to go from stength to strength with demand for raw materials from China Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Is there no end to the infestation on this site:mad: Hobos feck off:107years: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkato Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Is there no end to the infestation on this site:mad: Hobos feck off:107years: So rather than blindly castigate me, can you answer the question? In your own time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 So rather than blindly castigate me, can you answer the question? In your own time! Who gives a feck!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 compared to our debts it is... At the risk of being patronising, the level of a company's assets is irrelevant unless you know the level of their liabilities. For example, the last set of published accounts showed that Heart of Midlothian plc had assets of around ?23.5m. Quite a lot of money. However, once all the various liabilities were taken into account shareholder's funds (which I take to be what the company is worth in accounting terms) were -?12m. Put in another way. If I owned a house worth ?200k I have an asset worth ?200k. BUt if I have a ?180k mortgage my net asset is ?20k. It may be that UBIG is wealthy. However, I can't remember anyone on here providing evidence to show how wealthy it is. If UBIG's creditors put pressure on it then it has to put pressure on it's major debtors. That puts us in the frame. We have one asset that is worth a lot of money - you can guess what happens next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 UKIO have a lot of money in metals and mining which are going to go from stength to strength with demand for raw materials from China Unlikely that UKIO do, as they are a bank. UBIG may well have, but do you have any details eg links to newspaper articles? Believe me, I'd be delighted if it turns out that the company's we owe money to are minted and are in no rush to ask for it back. However, there's been very little real evidence of this. I keep asking because we keep getting reassuring noises about the strength of UKIO and UBIG without any proof. No offence to you personally - I'm nor trying to imply that you are Charlie Mann Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 At the risk of being patronising, the level of a company's assets is irrelevant unless you know the level of their liabilities. For example, the last set of published accounts showed that Heart of Midlothian plc had assets of around ?23.5m. Quite a lot of money. However, once all the various liabilities were taken into account shareholder's funds (which I take to be what the company is worth in accounting terms) were -?12m. Put in another way. If I owned a house worth ?200k I have an asset worth ?200k. BUt if I have a ?180k mortgage my net asset is ?20k. It may be that UBIG is wealthy. However, I can't remember anyone on here providing evidence to show how wealthy it is. If UBIG's creditors put pressure on it then it has to put pressure on it's major debtors. That puts us in the frame. We have one asset that is worth a lot of money - you can guess what happens next Feel free to sound as patronizing as you like... however, Hearts are not an independent company so there is no point whatsoever in talking about the football club?s debt. Since you acknowledge that you, like me, have no knowledge about the situation of the group, your opinion counts for nothing. Banks, like all companies, are not allowed to trade insolvently so I would suppose that their assets are more than their laiblilities... Happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Feel free to sound as patronizing as you like... however, Hearts are not an independent company so there is no point whatsoever in talking about the football club?s debt. Since you acknowledge that you, like me, have no knowledge about the situation of the group, your opinion counts for nothing. Banks are not allowed to trade insolvently so I would suppose that their assets are more than their laiblilities... Happy? Happy - of course not. Saying that there is no point in talking about the club's debt is laughable. What happens if UBIG is not healthy and their creditors call in their chips? The basis of your argument seems to be that we don't know anything about the group's finances, so why worry. Scary. Do your ears not get itchy when you spend so much time with your head in the sand Incidentally, UBIG is not a bank. Northern Rock was not insolvent, or anywhere near it. However, it did have a liquidity problem, and it's goose was cooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Whatever will be will be - there is very little any of us can do anyway unless some of you guys have ?30M+ stashed somewhere just in case...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givememychoice Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 there are many reasons for businesses to go bust. Northern rock was no insolvent, but had cash flow problems However, Legally, at least in this country, you are not allowed to trade insolvently. We do not have detailed UBIG information, but, they are a relatively sizeable entity. Not massive, but reasonably decent. Not really many people properly understand finances (myself included). Thats why behind every good business is a good (set of) accountants. We are different from the gretna situation in that it was Brooks personally dealing with gretna. With us, we are being dealt with by UBIG. They exist without romanov (though obviously he plays an important part). Ubig has significant investments in metals (as has been said) and other goods relatively immune from a down turn in the economy. No business is immune from problems. Problems can always arise. However, investment groups with a diverse portfolio have the best survival chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Happy - of course not. Saying that there is no point in talking about the club's debt is laughable. What happens if UBIG is not healthy and their creditors call in their chips? The basis of your argument seems to be that we don't know anything about the group's finances, so why worry. Scary. Do your ears not get itchy when you spend so much time with your head in the sand Incidentally, UBIG is not a bank. Northern Rock was not insolvent, or anywhere near it. However, it did have a liquidity problem, and it's goose was cooked. Now you are getting it! We are supporters of a football club and thus in awe of the owners wealth. Get with the programme! What other club obsesses about their owner?s finances? Is it cos our owner is foreign? I tink so! We are more secure because of the size of the group that we are part of. We cannot pretend to be more than a small part of a big group and as the credit crunches we cannot expect Vlad to spend freely on the football side of his business...We have to reign in our expectations and stop beating Vlad with his previous boasts. We will survive this season but the focus is not the club?s finances but rather the way it is run. Most of us want a manager, no more... Northern Rock was run by clowns and they forgot what kind of business they were running! liquidity was irrelevant as soon as whispers got out about what they WERE up to... A run on a bank is a test on any bank?s liquidity and they would all fail. Investors got wind and savers followed. Tis ever so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hearts are in a place of our own making - for a decade or more we have been spending in excess of our revenue and these losses have piled up into massive debts.....the vast majority of that money disappeared into the pockets of football players. We've been overspending on our team consistently for 10 years, prior to and since Romanovs arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hearts are in a place of our own making - for a decade or more we have been spending in excess of our revenue and these losses have piled up into massive debts.....the vast majority of that money disappeared into the pockets of football players. We've been overspending on our team consistently for 10 years, prior to and since Romanovs arrival. We have done pretty well to almost double our debt in 3 years though since Romanov arrived... That is quite terrible management for little reward. I have to confess that I have moved camps and I am firmly in the "show me a manager" camp regarding next season?s ST and although i?ll still buckle under and buy one, I do believe the the new stand chat when I see it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeBandit Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 from the same site as the original link.. http://www.ubig.lt/index.php/projektai/sports/heart_of_midlothian_football_club/134 read through this and tell me something isnt wrong with our club! ... for the Romanov apologists who require their heads beaten into the ground before they understand try this bit... "Hearts is one of only three Scottish clubs with its own football academy, where the most promising young talent is nurtured and later used to fortify the main composition of the team. Hearts also has its own trainings complex, which is one of the newest and most modern in the United Kingdom. " So the mis-mash of lithuanian cart horses we get over every transfer window are a product of our own youth system which still provides the backbone of the team?! Eh. UKIO propoganda bollox GTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougster 2 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Maybe this will answer a few questions, Lets have a look at UBIG. http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%AAk...%97_grup%C4%97 The figures to look at are down the RHS of the text. Pelnas (profit) is a paltry 1.5M Litas (approx ?340k) Bendrovės turtas (turnover) is 314M Litas (approx ?71M) , this is not good!!!!, it would seem that UBIG have not filed accounts in Lithuania for 2 years...sounds familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 from the same site as the original link.. http://www.ubig.lt/index.php/projektai/sports/heart_of_midlothian_football_club/134 read through this and tell me something isnt wrong with our club! ... for the Romanov apologists who require their heads beaten into the ground before they understand try this bit... "Hearts is one of only three Scottish clubs with its own football academy, where the most promising young talent is nurtured and later used to fortify the main composition of the team. Hearts also has its own trainings complex, which is one of the newest and most modern in the United Kingdom. " So the mis-mash of lithuanian cart horses we get over every transfer window are a product of our own youth system which still provides the backbone of the team?! Eh. UKIO propoganda bollox GTF. 7 of Saturday's starting 11 were from our youth system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Now you are getting it! We are supporters of a football club and thus in awe of the owners wealth. Get with the programme! What other club obsesses about their owner?s finances? Is it cos our owner is foreign? I tink so! We are more secure because of the size of the group that we are part of. We cannot pretend to be more than a small part of a big group and as the credit crunches we cannot expect Vlad to spend freely on the football side of his business...We have to reign in our expectations and stop beating Vlad with his previous boasts. We will survive this season but the focus is not the club?s finances but rather the way it is run. Most of us want a manager, no more... Northern Rock was run by clowns and they forgot what kind of business they were running! liquidity was irrelevant as soon as whispers got out about what they WERE up to... A run on a bank is a test on any bank?s liquidity and they would all fail. Investors got wind and savers followed. Tis ever so. I give up. 1. "What other club obsesses about their owner?s finances?" Eh, Aberdeeen, Hbs, Dundee Utd and Rangers do for starters? However, I'd trust all of their owners a lot more than Vlad. 2. "We are more secure because of the size of the group that we are part of." So what it the size of the group? I don't know, and I don't think you do either. But never mind, we can keep on believing blindly in Vlad, because, eh, um......... Off topic - what exactly were Northern Rock's managers "up to" that had nothing to do with liquidity. Just curious because I have read a lot of what the BBC Business's editor has said to say about NR and you appear to be better informed than him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neobis Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 http://www.ubig.lt/index.php?lang=2 There web page. Thanks to successfully implemented medium and large size investment projects ŪBIG activities are developing rapidly. At the end of 2006 the assets of all ŪBIG controlled companies amounted to LTL 1.85 billion (Eur 537 million). During the last year the turnover of those companies amounted to LTL 1.35 billion (Eur 392 million). l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Anyone know anything concrete about the holding/parent company? Google has thrown up a blank and I don't have the privileges to search this forum (apologies if there is a thread after page 8). I can find UKIO stats and their PL figures, but does anyone have the lo-down on UBIG as a corporate entity? It appears that the answer to your original question is no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I give up. 1. "What other club obsesses about their owner?s finances?" Eh, Aberdeeen, Hbs, Dundee Utd and Rangers do for starters? However, I'd trust all of their owners a lot more than Vlad. 2. "We are more secure because of the size of the group that we are part of." So what it the size of the group? I don't know, and I don't think you do either. But never mind, we can keep on believing blindly in Vlad, because, eh, um......... Off topic - what exactly were Northern Rock's managers "up to" that had nothing to do with liquidity. Just curious because I have read a lot of what the BBC Business's editor has said to say about NR and you appear to be better informed than him No they don?t. I only hear fans of these clubs OBSESSING about our finances. They may have an occasional interest in their own club?s finances or lack thereof, but I doubt I would find threads like this on the Hibs or Aberdeen fansites... Funny you should mention the BBC Business Editor since he was the one that broke the story and caused the run on the bank. NR?s liquidity problems went from manageable to unmanageable because of the run on the bank. Certainly that is why the BOE and FSA were content to help out at first and then the Govt too had to step in and prop NR up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeToonJambo Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I have no interest, personally, in the finances of UBIG, UKIO or any other business and have no training in finance but, from a personal standpoint, even I could see that Northern Rock was heading for a fall. When I was buying a new house a couple of years ago Northern Rock were willing to lend me ?220,000. I'm a pensioner and there was absolutely no chance of me ever managing to pay that back. From what I hear I wasn't the only one and that is why they collapsed. I don't think we can compare their situation with that of UBIG. Anyway, that's my final say on the financial side of the business. I support Hearts and really don't care what the debt is, how we pay it off, or if it will ever be paid off. As long as there's a team on the park every week I'll be happy and continue to go along and support them. If, and I'm pretty certain this will never happen, the club does fold I'll worry about it then. If it does I'll just start supporting the team who's ground is closest to my house, the famous Glasgow Rrrrrrangers!!! (Joke, in case anyone doesn't understand). I'd rather watch Partick Thistle!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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