Wikileaks - Lockerbie

[Armageddon]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11944645

 

I assume there will be more women coming forward who will portray Julian Assange as a sex beast, he'll get sentenced to 60 years in jail no doubt. How can his liberty be determined by a political decision, UK justice, as impartial as ever.

[Dunks]

The Illuminati are definitely closing ranks on poor Julian now

[2NaFish]

its breathtaking watching the machine pwn this guy. I was thinking it would be wrong to compare him to winston smith but iirc winstons first thougts on seeing julia were to crush her skull with a rock then rape her.

 

so it seems they're very similar after all.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The Lockerbie stuff gives even more credence to Al Megrahi being a patsy, not that I had any doubt of that.

[Denny Crane]

To quote some famous chap from the past........

 

"No government ought to be without censors, and where the press is free, no one ever will. If virtuous, it need not fear the fair operation of attack and defence. Nature has given to man no other means of sifting out the truth whether in religion, law or politics. I think it as honorable to the government neither to know nor notice its sycophants or censors, as it would be undignified and criminal to pamper the former and persecute the latter." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1792

[Cade]

Total stitch-up.

[Johanes de Silentio]

Total stitch-up.

 

Unless he is actually guilty of rape, in which case he will deserve all he gets.

 

The arrest does does seem somewhat convenient, though!

 

In the absence of the facts, I shall reserve judgement for now.

[wibble]

Unless he is actually guilty of rape, in which case he will deserve all he gets.

 

The arrest does does seem somewhat convenient, though!

 

In the absence of the facts, I shall reserve judgement for now.

 

The yanks, the british and the swedes must be shitting themselves about some future releases for them to be doing this to the guy.

 

Apparently the charges against him were thrown out by the Swedish prosecutor, but were re-stated after the intervention of some right wing politician - I am struggling to find mention of this on the BBC website??? . They talk up invading undemocratic countries where despots make up the law as they go along. This just shows that democracy and justice only exists while you are in full support of the establishment.

 

One way or another, this whole episode could turn out to be hugely important in terms of world history. If the illusions of liberty and democracy are stripped bare, what do the people do to regain their freedoms?

[wibble]

Here's the original story from August when the charges were dropped ......

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11053329

[wibble]

Holy ****!!!!

 

Read the details of the allegations here:

 

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/02/when-it-comes-to-assange-r-pe-case-the-swedes-are-making-it-up-as-they-go-along/

 

 

It's the biggest ******* stitch-up since Lee Harvey Oswald. What a ******* joke. The veil is falling folks - even the apologists can't defend this. Utterly criminal.

[lilandy]

It is a joke but it doesn't really matter to wikileaks if Assange is jailed for this. his role is to 'act as a lightning rod' for wikileaks so even with him gone they'll still release material.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

There are rumours that Assange has an 'insurance' file should anything happen to him. Whether such a file exists or not is immaterial, he has sphincters twitching, which is pleasing.

[Peebo]

There are rumours that Assange has an 'insurance' file should anything happen to him. Whether such a file exists or not is immaterial, he has sphincters twitching, which is pleasing.

 

Assuming he can remember the password! Or gets a chance to release the hounds...

 

Still not sure about the whole Wikileaks thing. Without doubt, much of the stuff is fascinating and a great read, although the general gist of some of the cables (such as this Lockerbie stuff) is about revelationary as documenting that the Pope is catholic.

 

Then there is the release some of the stuff where I see absolutely no positive benefit to society - e.g. highlighting the apparent security interests of the US.

 

I'm all for free speech, but I am not sure that necessarily should mean the publicising of things which were only intended for private audiences. But as I say, much of it is pretty interesting.

[kingantti1874]

To be honest the guy is a tosser of the highest order, some of the stuff he is releasing is putting peoples

Life in jeopardy, countries have gone to war over less.

[wibble]

Assuming he can remember the password! Or gets a chance to release the hounds...

 

Still not sure about the whole Wikileaks thing. Without doubt, much of the stuff is fascinating and a great read, although the general gist of some of the cables (such as this Lockerbie stuff) is about revelationary as documenting that the Pope is catholic.

 

Then there is the release some of the stuff where I see absolutely no positive benefit to society - e.g. highlighting the apparent security interests of the US.

 

I'm all for free speech, but I am not sure that necessarily should mean the publicising of things which were only intended for private audiences. But as I say, much of it is pretty interesting.

 

 

 

 

Why shouldn't the public know some of this stuff? If the root of funding of terrorism is Saudi Arabia then we should all know, because then we could offer public support for an invasion of Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

Some of these leaks confirm what we have known for a long, long time. Michael Moore (along with dozens of others) detailed the Saudi links in Fahrenheit 911 and he also explained why America (or anyone else in the West) won't touch them - they could bring down the US economy in an instant.

 

These leaks just help put some clarification of how wide the gap is between what the public are told and what the truth may be. I haven't been surprised by any of it, but it's comforting to know that most my suspicions that we are constantly fed bullshit by government is indeed true.

[wibble]

To be honest the guy is a tosser of the highest order, some of the stuff he is releasing is putting peoples

Life in jeopardy, countries have gone to war over less.

 

Honest question - what of the recent leaks are putting peoples lives at risk?

[kingantti1874]

Honest question - what of the recent leaks are putting peoples lives at risk?

 

Well u wouldn't want to work in one of the factories highlighted as important to American national interests would you? As for the revelation about the Chinese bot being completely opposed to the south reuniting Korea ?

 

We may not like it but not all information should be made public, it's dangerous and serves little purpose other than to feed this idiots ego.

 

You nor anybody else on the planet have any more right to know about this stuff than you have any other private conversations, for example you know hee haw about some of the conversations I have at work, and neither you should..

 

You may not like it but it is not appropriate to do this and I hope the appropriate authorities take this clown apart whatever it takes

[wibble]

Well u wouldn't want to work in one of the factories highlighted as important to American national interests would you? As for the revelation about the Chinese bot being completely opposed to the south reuniting Korea ?

 

We may not like it but not all information should be made public, it's dangerous and serves little purpose other than to feed this idiots ego.

 

You nor anybody else on the planet have any more right to know about this stuff than you have any other private conversations, for example you know hee haw about some of the conversations I have at work, and neither you should..

 

You may not like it but it is not appropriate to do this and I hope the appropriate authorities take this clown apart whatever it takes

 

 

 

The thing is though, that in very recent times our governments have been proven to be crooked. Faking dossiers on WMD's to justify spending trillions and costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Allowing large banks to over-stretch themselves to the point that your pension and savings are now messed. Allowing big business to shut up shop locally and manufacture everything in China. These people haven't earned the right to keep secrets from the people, because when they do keep secrets it has been proven that it is for the good of a tiny number of people rather than for the greater good or the good of the majority.

 

Finally, none of this stuff is Top Secret, it's level of secrecy is minimal to say the least.

[kingantti1874]

The thing is though, that in very recent times our governments have been proven to be crooked. Faking dossiers on WMD's to justify spending trillions and costing hundreds of thousands of lives. Allowing large banks to over-stretch themselves to the point that your pension and savings are now messed. Allowing big business to shut up shop locally and manufacture everything in China. These people haven't earned the right to keep secrets from the people, because when they do keep secrets it has been proven that it is for the good of a tiny number of people rather than for the greater good or the good of the majority.

 

Finally, none of this stuff is Top Secret, it's level of secrecy is minimal to say the least.

 

Whilst I agree in principal with some of this it's very naive, there's a difference between what you want to know and what you should know. For every example you have listed there I'm sure there are many examples where it is beneficial to keep the public in the dark. Why dont they just release all the info in one go? money - they are giving no thought whatsoever to what they release and don't release.

[Johanes de Silentio]

Whilst I agree in principal with some of this it's very naive, there's a difference between what you want to know and what you should know. For every example you have listed there I'm sure there are many examples where it is beneficial to keep the public in the dark. Why dont they just release all the info in one go? money - they are giving no thought whatsoever to what they release and don't release.

 

I'd rather know.

 

I suspect that the main reason for keeping certain information secret has little to do with public safety.

 

I suspect that governments keep secrets for reasons of self-interest, and for the benefit of corporate business organisations, etc.

 

I naively believe that we elect governments to serve us, and that they should keep us informed.

 

Personally speaking, I'd like to know.

[kingantti1874]

I understand the desire to know, I curious about the stories as well, but I think there is sometimes a difference between national interest and public interest.

[Sterling Archer]

I understand the desire to know, I curious about the stories as well, but I think there is sometimes a difference between national interest and public interest.

 

The government was elected to represent the people, that's where this differs from other private conversations. If they aren't representing the people as they would have wanted then we have a right to know.

[wibble]

Whilst I agree in principal with some of this it's very naive, there's a difference between what you want to know and what you should know. For every example you have listed there I'm sure there are many examples where it is beneficial to keep the public in the dark. Why dont they just release all the info in one go? money - they are giving no thought whatsoever to what they release and don't release.

 

I am not suggesting that what Wikileaks has done is the best way to inform the public, but some or most of the information in these releases is innocuous at best, but government has still decided that the public shouldn't be informed - in fact with much of this stuff the public have been misled.

 

The reality is that government is no longer accountable in any way shape or form. The picture they paint is a million miles from the reality. These leaks have opened some peoples eyes to what some of the reality is.

 

I'd like to see government that has to justify it's spending on defence without forging dossiers. Where going to war has to be justified and proven to be a good return on money and life and only done after all other avenues have been explored. I'd also like to see governments justify some of the decisions they make that favour big business to the detriment of the average person.

 

Government is supposed to serve the people, not keep it in the dark. If you appoint these people and trust them to run your country you'd expect them to let you know what's going on once in a while without them putting spin on everything.

[IMA MAROON]

We are still waiting for the slaying of the innocents because of Wikileaks.

[kingantti1874]

not going to get into a debate over it as i can see both points of view. I agree governments should be held more accountable but potentially damaging information should not be made public as part of a vanity project... IMA -- dont be daft but are you trying to tell me someone somewhere wont have jotted down the factories and communication hubs considered vital to american national interests... probably nothing will happen but im pretty sure some people with nasty intentions will have taken note of that... and what was the benefit in you are I knowing that a small factory in midlothian is considered vital to the JSF programme....

[The Mighty Thor]

I live in Loanhead and i must admit after the revelation that one of the town's factories has significant strategic importance to Uncle Sam i've started to dig a bunker under my house. I've bent 2 spoons already on the hard ground.

 

What is unfolding here is a really ham fisted attempt to gag a guy, one way or the other, who has stuck fairly low level stuff into the public domain. People shouldn't be trying to shut this guy up they should be giving him the platform he deserves to draw attention to the fact that Governments aren't acting in the best interest of their citizens. Government of the people, by the people, for the people? no?

 

I for one really hope he has an 'insurance policy' up his sleeve and he unleashes the whole lot to cause maximum discomfort to those concerned.

 

[IMA MAROON]

Wikileaks is a step in the right direction, I'd like to see other like minded people from Israel, Russia, China, Iran etc etc taking similar steps.

 

I think we will all benifit from seeing how these people work.

[Patrick Bateman]

Is what Assange has done any different from what various (good) newspapers have been doing for the past century? Wouldn't it be funny if the US discovered that they actually had no legal basis to charge Assange? He's ultimately a publisher of information and they're very prissy about freedom of speech over there. I've heard politicians and pundits demand his assassination or execution, despite having been convicted of no crime. It's absolute madness and quite frightening to anyone with their eyes open.

 

Notice - Very little has been said about Bradley Manning, the soldier who apparently stole the information, or the ease with which he managed to do it. Very strange indeed.

[Brian Whittaker's Tache]

I dont think I'd be walking over any high bridges or near open windows if I were him!

 

http://www.zcommunications.org/julian-assange-wanted-by-the-empire-dead-or-alive-by-alexander-cockburn

[rossthejambo]

Is what Assange has done any different from what various (good) newspapers have been doing for the past century? Wouldn't it be funny if the US discovered that they actually had no legal basis to charge Assange? He's ultimately a publisher of information and they're very prissy about freedom of speech over there. I've heard politicians and pundits demand his assassination or execution, despite having been convicted of no crime. It's absolute madness and quite frightening to anyone with their eyes open.

 

Notice - Very little has been said about Bradley Manning, the soldier who apparently stole the information, or the ease with which he managed to do it. Very strange indeed.

 

I thought Manning was facing 50 years + in jail for leaking the information?

[Peebo]

Notice - Very little has been said about Bradley Manning, the soldier who apparently stole the information, or the ease with which he managed to do it. Very strange indeed.

 

Very little? People (including some pretty high profile politicians) have been demanding his execution also!

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

We are still waiting for the slaying of the innocents because of Wikileaks.

 

It's now standard practice for governments to use the "national security" argument when they don't want info published. It's a lazy defence and I'm pleased that someone is calling their bluff.

 

 

 

As for Mr Wikileaks, if he's guilty of a sexual offence then he deserves what's coming. But if he's not then I can only hope that everyone in a position to help him (financially or politically) does exactly that.

 

 

 

[felix]

Honest question - what of the recent leaks are putting peoples lives at risk?

 

None of them (excluding Julian Assange of course).

[P-Dizzle]

The Lockerbie stuff gives even more credence to Al Megrahi being a patsy, not that I had any doubt of that.

 

Was that ever in doubt by anyone, Geoff?

[Patrick Bateman]

Very little? People (including some pretty high profile politicians) have been demanding his execution also!

 

I should have said comparatively. I guess the question I should have asked is, should Assange be guilty for publishing material (albeit classified) where no crime appears to have been committed by him? Is it not a bit ridiculous that we have politicians calling for his head when he hasn't been convicted of anything?

[Peebo]

I should have said comparatively. I guess the question I should have asked is, should Assange be guilty for publishing material (albeit classified) where no crime appears to have been committed by him? Is it not a bit ridiculous that we have politicians calling for his head when he hasn't been convicted of anything?

 

Of course, but they view him as a "terrorist"

[P-Dizzle]

Some of the American media has been appalling. Saying that the two of them should be executed, anyone connected to Wikileaks should be hunted down around the world and brought to "justice".

 

This world police attitude that they have sickens me. If this information is so important and vital to them, why the hell were they so lackadaisical about the protection of it?

[dobmisterdobster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKkPUJf0nis

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Was that ever in doubt by anyone, Geoff?

 

 

You could go back and read the threads on here when he was released!

[P-Dizzle]

You could go back and read the threads on here when he was released!

 

 

Fair point. I think this is one of these things that will become very clear to the majority of people as time goes on, at least outside the US.

[wibble]

The truth is that they have nothing to legally get him on with regard to the leaks, so they have resorted to some quirky loophole in Swedish law.

It is also a warning to anyone else who may have something to publish.

 

The media are also guilty because you could never describe these charges as rape in any conventional terms.

[Peebo]

The media are also guilty because you could never describe these charges as rape in any conventional terms.

 

Really? Miss W may have begged to differ when she woke up, if the BBC's summary of that particular charge is accurate.

[Rocco_Jambo]

The truth is that they have nothing to legally get him on with regard to the leaks, so they have resorted to some quirky loophole in Swedish law.

It is also a warning to anyone else who may have something to publish.

 

The media are also guilty because you could never describe these charges as rape in any conventional terms.

 

Why could you not describe it as rape?

[WorldChampions1902]

I dont think I'd be walking over any high bridges or near open windows if I were him!

 

http://www.zcommunications.org/julian-assange-wanted-by-the-empire-dead-or-alive-by-alexander-cockburn

Indeed!

 

Whether or not he is convicted of any rape allegations, I really do fear that he will suffer a nasty 'freak' accident in the not too distant future. That's what tends to happen to people who become too much of an inconvenience to the authorities. It will of course be dismissed as an unfortunate occurrence and any autopsy will not follow the usual rules following which we will see a rushed cremation. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Cade]

This was the same allegation that surfaced in august and was quickly withdrawn.

 

Now all of a sudden it's being re-investigated. I smell shite.

[Patrick Bateman]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-advised-libya-how-to-free-lockerbie-bomber-2200349.html

 

Well, well, well. Seems like Iain "Megrahi would never be released on my watch" Gray was talking a load of rubbish. There's a surprise Still pretty disgusting to think that Prince Andrew, an unelected, boorish nobody can interfere with the Scottish justice system.