Guardian Article

[LAIRDY14]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/nov/06/hibernian-hearts-stadium-progress

[davemclaren]

'The view of Fedotovas and Ubig in relation to Hearts is simple. "This is a big club in Scotland with a big tradition," the director says. "If we do not get help, we have to reconsider our investment and Hearts becomes just another small club."'

 

Interesting Quote I thought.

[2NaFish]

hmm. a strong stance from the club. is it just posturing though? credit to the article, atleast it didnt go down the route of "hearts fans must be jealous of hibs lack of debt and shiny new stand", which would've been easy to do.

[Guest juvehearts]

here that last paragraph is true

 

wither other outside of hearts agree or no

 

UKIG have helped not only hearts out far more than we ever could repay them for, but also scotland & britian.

 

i think the council are foolish not to go ahead with the plans drawn up by the redevelopment party. We only have to look at the tram fiasco to see how badly run our city council is run & not ONE fat cat has resined over it either.

 

here is a group with the finantual backing to help edinburgh's economy grow & create new jobs & infrastructure but government blocked the banking licence & for what reason????

 

no wonder we are one of the last county's out of recession, we have a non elected government running this sham.

 

juve

[davemclaren]

here that last paragraph is true

 

wither other outside of hearts agree or no

 

UKIG have helped not only hearts out far more than we ever could repay them for, but also scotland & britian.

 

i think the council are foolish not to go ahead with the plans drawn up by the redevelopment party. We only have to look at the tram fiasco to see how badly run our city council is run & not ONE fat cat has resined over it either.

 

here is a group with the finantual backing to help edinburgh's economy grow & create new jobs & infrastructure but government blocked the banking licence & for what reason????

 

no wonder we are one of the last county's out of recession, we have a non elected government running this sham.

 

juve

 

 

To be fair, conditions around getting a banking licence are very strict and so they should be.

[K1874M]

To be fair, conditions around getting a banking licence are very strict and so they should be.

Indeed. Must admit there's a lot in that which could be read in to.

[Sydney from Sydney]

I don't think it's wise for the Liths to link the development of the new stand with their failed application for a banking permit in the UK. Sounds like a veiled threat to me, and won't do them any favours. Every business big or small pays VAT etc. so Hearts aren't special in that regard. If Vlad wants to build us a stand then all he has to do is follow the usual procedure like the wee team did. I know there are issues with surrounding buildings etc, but the delays appear to be with the club as opposed to council.

[Guest juvehearts]

granted that the finantual cost is excessive & with the recession its no the best time to be building a product that might sit half empty.

 

the saying is that if you build it they will come, only thing wrong with it is that the product has to be there for people to watch

 

all good finishing 3rd every season, but for a club like hearts we need to be close to the OF and for years we havent been there.

 

we have to sort the team 1st then be challenging for honours every season before it becomes finantualy viable for hearts as a footballing club & a trading company to invest in infastructure.

 

lets hope hat success starts with a thumping of the vermin tomorrow

 

FTH

 

juve

[Francis Albert]

To be fair, conditions around getting a banking licence are very strict and so they should be.

What a shame they weren't applied to HBOS and RBS. How many billions has UKIO Bankas been bailed out through the public purse?

[davemclaren]

What a shame they weren't applied to HBOS and RBS. How many billions has UKIO Bankas been bailed out through the public purse?

 

They were and are. However, the criteria change with every new crisis so they are only good at preventing problems that have already happened.

 

To be fair though, given the huge amount of foreign banks operating in the UK you have to ask why UKIO have failed to get one...but I doubt Sergi will tell us that.

[droid]

granted that the finantual cost is excessive & with the recession its no the best time to be building a product that might sit half empty.

 

the saying is that if you build it they will come, only thing wrong with it is that the product has to be there for people to watch

 

all good finishing 3rd every season, but for a club like hearts we need to be close to the OF and for years we havent been there.

 

we have to sort the team 1st then be challenging for honours every season before it becomes finantualy viable for hearts as a footballing club & a trading company to invest in infastructure.

 

lets hope hat success starts with a thumping of the vermin tomorrow

 

FTH

 

juve

 

 

Juve whilst normally agreeing with a lot of what you say i have to disagree.

 

Form as we all know is temporary and outwith the o.f no team in the spl(normally)has two good seasons in a row,

one good seasons usually followed by a pretty mediocre one.

 

The infrastructure of a club is by far more important so that Hearts as a business and football club can continue for the next 100 years.

The building of a new main stand whilst not financially viable at the moment(due to economic climat)is probably the single most important decision Hearts will have in the next 20 years.

 

Psv are a good example of what can be achieved by a so called smaller club who go on to challenge for honours whilst not having a 60,000-80,000 stadium.

(all in my opinion of course)

[Francis Albert]

They were and are. However, the criteria change with every new crisis so they are only good at preventing problems that have already happened.

 

To be fair though, given the huge amount of foreign banks operating in the UK you have to ask why UKIO have failed to get one...but I doubt Sergi will tell us that.

 

Sure you are right. But it does annoy me that the likes of UKIO Bankas are viewed as "dodgy" but RBS and HBOS have not only been bailed out at our expense but can use the losses that resulted in them being bailed out to offset future tax liabilities. If I was a "Lith" treated the way they have been treated in Edinburgh and Scotland I'd have quit long ago.

[davemclaren]

Sure you are right. But it does annoy me that the likes of UKIO Bankas are viewed as "dodgy" but RBS and HBOS have not only been bailed out at our expense but can use the losses that resulted in them being bailed out to offset future tax liabilities. If I was a "Lith" treated the way they have been treated in Edinburgh and Scotland I'd have quit long ago.

 

 

It is a bit ironic I agree. As far as I know UKIO could have got a UK bank to sponsor them but obviously haven't found one willing to do that or didn't want to. I agree that getting a banking licence clearly doesn't mean that you are a safe bank.

[Francis Albert]

It is a bit ironic I agree. As far as I know UKIO could have got a UK bank to sponsor them but obviously haven't found one willing to do that or didn't want to. I agree that getting a banking licence clearly doesn't mean that you are a safe bank.

I suspect they haven't found a UK bank they'd want to be associated with.

[davemclaren]

I suspect they haven't found a UK bank they'd want to be associated with.

 

[Coco]

It really has been a financial black hole for UBIG.

 

At least ?24m down the drain on Hearts and more to come. Whatever spent on Ukio Bankas (including the team sponsorship money!) so far providing no return. And the white elephant St Andrew Square building bought at the very top of the market and providing no return.

[Martin_T]

It really has been a financial black hole for UBIG.

 

At least ?24m down the drain on Hearts and more to come. Whatever spent on Ukio Bankas (including the team sponsorship money!) so far providing no return. And the white elephant St Andrew Square building bought at the very top of the market and providing no return.

 

I suspect that UBIG are making money out of this venture somehow, no idea how, but surely they cannot have got to a position to make such a level of capital expenditure in the first place if they are as incompetent as would seem?

[Coco]

I suspect that UBIG are making money out of this venture somehow, no idea how, but surely they cannot have got to a position to make such a level of capital expenditure in the first place if they are as incompetent as would seem?

 

Can't see how they can be making any money out of the UK ventures if they are Hearts, the bank and St Andrew Square. We know that none of them have provided any return. They could presumably sell Hearts and the St Andrew Square building for big losses at this point though.

 

They were perhaps very good at securing and managing assets in Eastern Europe. Skills which do not seem to have transferred over here so far.

[Martin_T]

Can't see how they can be making any money out of the UK ventures if they are Hearts, the bank and St Andrew Square. We know that none of them have provided any return. They could presumably sell Hearts and the St Andrew Square building for big losses at this point though.

 

They were perhaps very good at securing and managing assets in Eastern Europe. Skills which do not seem to have transferred over here so far.

 

Is it possible to make money from depreciating asset values? Perhaps through some kind of hedged position? Are they somehow making money from holding significant debt in a foreign currency? I just find it difficult to believe that they would be as naive and incompetent as you suspect they are Coco.

 

The St Andrew's square building will reach break even point again eventually so I suspect that they are holding that as a long term asset, although obviously if they'd called the market better they could have got if for significantly less than they paid

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Can't see how they can be making any money out of the UK ventures if they are Hearts, the bank and St Andrew Square. We know that none of them have provided any return. They could presumably sell Hearts and the St Andrew Square building for big losses at this point though.

 

They were perhaps very good at securing and managing assets in Eastern Europe. Skills which do not seem to have transferred over here so far.

 

 

UBIG are actually Foundation X. Did no one tell you?

[colinmaroon]

That has been my deepest concern for some considerable time!

 

 

If "Mad" Vlad loses interest or is outvoted or kicks the bucket, we are in deep poo without the protection of that bucket!!!

[Radge21]

A new stand could be bad news.

Hibby workmates say the atmosphere at empty seat stadium is rubbish now.

Sure the team are not doing to well after Yogi but the cavern

of empty seats is supposed to be really bad.

We would only end up with too many empty seats as well.

Hearts should take a step back from this and scale it all down, wait and see how it effects the

muppets at fester road over the next year or two.

[Slap]

I suspect that UBIG are making money out of this venture somehow, no idea how, but surely they cannot have got to a position to make such a level of capital expenditure in the first place if they are as incompetent as would seem?

 

 

To be honest I am not so sure that they are getting a return, unless they are in it for the 5-10 year term

[Mysterion]

Romanov came in with an idea to buy success and recoup outlay when (if it had worked) Champs League money came in...

 

It didn't and it's taken a few years to get things to a state where UBIG/Vlad can control it. If you ask me - Hearts have scaled back a lot of expenditure and expanded it's commercial activities. It might not be so long before the financial side of things levels out - removing interest payments are a start.

 

I'm surprised they haven't moved to separate off the club debt as an interest free mortage allowing it to be repaid over a 20year term (or similar).

 

I've also wondered why there hasn't been a scheme where Vlad has added an option for fans to purchase shares with season tickets that are allocated to a supporters trust.

[The Comedian]

Can't see how they can be making any money out of the UK ventures if they are Hearts, the bank and St Andrew Square. We know that none of them have provided any return. They could presumably sell Hearts and the St Andrew Square building for big losses at this point though.

 

They were perhaps very good at securing and managing assets in Eastern Europe. Skills which do not seem to have transferred over here so far.

 

At what point do they say enough is enough? We'll find out one day. Certainly buying a club in Britain to gain a popular foothold with a view to opening banks here hasn't worked out.

 

Ploughing 50-60 million into a loss making football club and with no banking licence to show for it won't go on forever. It's mooted that UBIG cannot be that incompetent with their Edinburgh based ventures, maybe they are.

 

[Coco]

Is it possible to make money from depreciating asset values? Perhaps through some kind of hedged position? Are they somehow making money from holding significant debt in a foreign currency? I just find it difficult to believe that they would be as naive and incompetent as you suspect they are Coco.

 

The St Andrew's square building will reach break even point again eventually so I suspect that they are holding that as a long term asset, although obviously if they'd called the market better they could have got if for significantly less than they paid

 

Would be foolish to say that there isn't any way possible for them to be benefiting. I don't see it though.

 

As you know, the way to make money from depreciating asset values is to be short the assets - and UBIG are long long long!