Youngsters taking up the 'hooliganism' reigns.

[Ray Winstone]

Take a gander at the two 'gentleman' they interview for this article, remarkable that in this day and age youngsters are still getting themselves into this kind of thing........although I suppose as one poster on here puts it 'neds is neds'.

 

My link

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

I blame Danny Dyer. Then again I blame him for a lot.

[Homme]

I blame Danny Dyer. Then again I blame him for a lot.

 

It is party due to his (and other) kind of programmes and films that are glorifying hooliganism though.

 

I can't see the link at work but i'm assuming its the two coventry 'fans' that were on the news this morning?

[jamboinglasgow]

It is party due to his (and other) kind of programmes and films that are glorifying hooliganism though.

 

I can't see the link at work but i'm assuming its the two coventry 'fans' that were on the news this morning?

 

yeah that was the same story. I saw that, one claimed he started fighting to improve the "reputation" of Coventry.

[i8hibsh]

"We get treated like animals"

 

"outside of football we are pefectly normal GENTLEMEN"

 

These 2 little gems stood out

 

I simply can not put into words my hatred for there sort

 

If i had my way i'd see them thrown into a jail and either executed or have them rot

[i8hibsh]

I blame Danny Dyer. Then again I blame him for a lot.

 

 

Danny Dyer is a weapon of the highest calibre, however football hooliganism has been around well before him.

[Boris]

More symptomatic of the anti-social behaviour displayed by "yoofs" than football being the reason. Football is merely the vehicle these sorts are riding on.

 

Also, hasn't this sort of thing been going on for decades already?

[The Mighty Thor]

More symptomatic of the anti-social behaviour displayed by "yoofs" than football being the reason. Football is merely the vehicle these sorts are riding on.

 

Also, hasn't this sort of thing been going on for decades already?

 

Agreed. I'd put my life savings on these two and the little ***** that recently killed the vietnamese boy in Lochend being cut from the same cloth.

 

I'm still all for a mass sterilisation programme.

[The Old Tolbooth]

I cant quite get over the fact that 4 people between the ages of 60 and 69 have been charged, and also one person over the age of 70!

 

"Come and ave a go if you've got a walking stick!"

[Nucky Thompson]

I cant quite get over the fact that 4 people between the ages of 60 and 69 have been charged, and also one person over the age of 70!

 

"Come and ave a go if you've got a walking stick!"

I think that was football banning orders altogether not just for hooliganism.

[The People's Chimp]

More symptomatic of the anti-social behaviour displayed by "yoofs" than football being the reason. Football is merely the vehicle these sorts are riding on.

 

Also, hasn't this sort of thing been going on for decades already?

 

And what is the reason for this anti social behaviour? Exclusion, thrill seeking...all symptomatic of what?

[The Old Tolbooth]

I think that was football banning orders altogether not just for hooliganism.

Damn you, stop bursting my bubble!

[Dr. Bapswent]

$cum, sub-human $cum.

[Boris]

And what is the reason for this anti social behaviour? Exclusion, thrill seeking...all symptomatic of what?

 

Dramatic increase in the rise of the lumpen proletariat due to Thatcherite policy decisons over the last 30 years.

 

Instead of trying to tackle social issues, the governmental response has been to punish. Which is correct when people break the law and are caught but does nothing to aleviate the underlying socio-economic reasons for such behaviour thus creating and maintaining a cycle of such actions.

 

Rampant consumerism and free market capitalism leads to the alienation of individuals. Membership of a "gang" perhaps gives some focus for these lost souls and a misguided sense of belonging and loyalty.

 

Of course while the ruling class bluster about eradicating this, they also tacitly encourage this as it divides and conquers traditional working class people as these lumpen proles are used as agent provoceteurs by the bourgeois establishment to neuter and dilute any class consciousness these people may have had thus allowing the ruling elite to carry on as usual, lining their pockets all the way. It also provides ammunition for the right wing press to scare the meek middle class intop believing that without their leadership (their being the bourgeois "elite") then the country would fall to rack and ruin. A self preserving cycle, if you like.

 

Well, that's one take on it anyway.

[Craig Herbertson]

Dramatic increase in the rise of the lumpen proletariat due to Thatcherite policy decisons over the last 30 years.

 

Instead of trying to tackle social issues, the governmental response has been to punish. Which is correct when people break the law and are caught but does nothing to aleviate the underlying socio-economic reasons for such behaviour thus creating and maintaining a cycle of such actions.

 

Rampant consumerism and free market capitalism leads to the alienation of individuals. Membership of a "gang" perhaps gives some focus for these lost souls and a misguided sense of belonging and loyalty.

 

Of course while the ruling class bluster about eradicating this, they also tacitly encourage this as it divides and conquers traditional working class people as these lumpen proles are used as agent provoceteurs by the bourgeois establishment to neuter and dilute any class consciousness these people may have had thus allowing the ruling elite to carry on as usual, lining their pockets all the way. It also provides ammunition for the right wing press to scare the meek middle class intop believing that without their leadership (their being the bourgeois "elite") then the country would fall to rack and ruin. A self preserving cycle, if you like.

 

Well, that's one take on it anyway.

 

 

Good one. Ancient Rome had real problems with hooliganism and if you go to any anthropological study you'll find the old geezers in charge of the tribe moaning about the unruly youth. I picked this up from wikipedia (but its possibly accurate)

 

'In 1885, after Preston North End beat Aston Villa 5-0 in a friendly match, the two teams were pelted with stones; attacked with sticks, punched, kicked and spat at. One Preston player was beaten so severely that he lost consciousness. Press reports of the time described the fans as "howling roughs".

 

I have a strong feeling that no matter what the state of the economy or the political regime, at or around a football match, young kids will have a go at other young kids from the opposing team. Probably some older guys will join in. It will probably vary in degree according to some other factors but that will be about it.

[Boris]

Good one. Ancient Rome had real problems with hooliganism and if you go to any anthropological study you'll find the old geezers in charge of the tribe moaning about the unruly youth. I picked this up from wikipedia (but its possibly accurate)

 

'In 1885, after Preston North End beat Aston Villa 5-0 in a friendly match, the two teams were pelted with stones; attacked with sticks, punched, kicked and spat at. One Preston player was beaten so severely that he lost consciousness. Press reports of the time described the fans as "howling roughs".

 

I have a strong feeling that no matter what the state of the economy or the political regime, at or around a football match, young kids will have a go at other young kids from the opposing team. Probably some older guys will join in. It will probably vary in degree according to some other factors but that will be about it.

 

Undoubtedly there is a sense of tribalism associated with football, but the mentality of the mob is heavily shaped by the environment in which they live. To varying degrees, this environment is controlled by the ruling elite thus they are inextricably linked as one of the causes.

[Tazio]

"Football hooligans may not be true fans to you, we're there every game. What are you doing? 'Oh lets sit at home on the chat boards slagging off how bad Coventry City are doing.' Come back when you know what you are talking about."

 

 

A strangely familiar sentiment. One I've read paraphrased versions of several times on here.

[Craig Herbertson]

Undoubtedly there is a sense of tribalism associated with football, but the mentality of the mob is heavily shaped by the environment in which they live. To varying degrees, this environment is controlled by the ruling elite thus they are inextricably linked as one of the causes.

 

I basically agree. There have been very few societies where a ruling elite did not exist in some shape or form. There was one bunch of cave dwellers who. it was argued, had no sense of violence (the anthropologists had to explain what violence was) and certainly early Hunter Gathers who are basically egalitarian tend not to fight. I suppose there have also been brief transitional egalitarian states where violence hasn't been directed in a hierarchical way. There's probably a list of factors in varying degrees and the power structure would be near the top.

[leginten]

Agreed. I'd put my life savings on these two and the little ***** that recently killed the vietnamese boy in Lochend being cut from the same cloth.

 

I'm still all for a mass sterilisation programme.

 

I realise that the last part may be tongue in cheek (or maybe not) but it's a sentiment that more or less did for Keith Joseph's political aspirations back in the day.

 

Boris: I agree with your statement of the problem (if not its causes - neds existed long before Thatcher and her policies came to prominence), but what is the solution? You've said on here before that this ned underclass needs to be "dealt with", but what does this mean? Would you propose authoritarian measures?

[CBjambo]

Danny Dyer is a ****... but he should be commended not blamed... anyone with as little feckin brain cells as that **** has to applauded for being able to walk upright!

 

I blame Elijah Wood (Frodo):

 

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dailyinfo.co.uk/images/cinema/green-street-hooligans.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.dailyinfo.co.uk/reviews/feature/129/Green_Street_Hooligans&usg=__4LzM2o2w_tiGgcIRNe2z2hlYfLI=&h=447&w=300&sz=12&hl=en&start=12&zoom=1&tbnid=Py7DS4kOktHmuM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=85&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgreen%2Bstreet%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rls%3DGGLD,GGLD:2004-15,GGLD:en%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1

 

If that wee pesky hobbit can become a football hooligan... any wee poof can!

[Boris]

I realise that the last part may be tongue in cheek (or maybe not) but it's a sentiment that more or less did for Keith Joseph's political aspirations back in the day.

 

Boris: I agree with your statement of the problem (if not its causes - neds existed long before Thatcher and her policies came to prominence), but what is the solution? You've said on here before that this ned underclass needs to be "dealt with", but what does this mean? Would you propose authoritarian measures?

 

 

If we accept the Marxist view that the lumpen proles are unsaveable then we have to isolate them from the rest of society. Gulags? Work camps? Social re-education? Perhaps a mixture of all three...

 

More importantly though the causes of this malaise have to be looked at and sorted. Therefore proper housing for all. Freedom from want, an end to poverty and full employment. An increase in the arts and the availability to all too. Education to be changed too to reflect a more co-operative, community led mentally.

 

I suppose really I'm wanting to change the entire ethos of society to one where everyone looks out for each other, works for each other. Our current socio-economic and political system encourages selfishness.

[grumpy rebus]

If we accept the Marxist view that the lumpen proles are unsaveable then we have to isolate them from the rest of society. Gulags? Work camps? Social re-education? Perhaps a mixture of all three...

 

More importantly though the causes of this malaise have to be looked at and sorted. Therefore proper housing for all. Freedom from want, an end to poverty and full employment. An increase in the arts and the availability to all too. Education to be changed too to reflect a more co-operative, community led mentally.

 

I suppose really I'm wanting to change the entire ethos of society to one where everyone looks out for each other, works for each other. Our current socio-economic and political system encourages selfishness.

 

And everyone is equal..... but some are more equal than others. Sounds like the makings of a book.

[Someday]

If we accept the Marxist view that the lumpen proles are unsaveable then we have to isolate them from the rest of society. Gulags? Work camps? Social re-education? Perhaps a mixture of all three...

 

More importantly though the causes of this malaise have to be looked at and sorted. Therefore proper housing for all. Freedom from want, an end to poverty and full employment. An increase in the arts and the availability to all too. Education to be changed too to reflect a more co-operative, community led mentally.

 

I suppose really I'm wanting to change the entire ethos of society to one where everyone looks out for each other, works for each other. Our current socio-economic and political system encourages selfishness.

 

I'm pretty sure that most of these "casual" types come from decent homes.

[Boris]

And everyone is equal..... but some are more equal than others. Sounds like the makings of a book.

 

I realise you are making the Animal Farm reference, but I'm not sure where that fits into what I said.

 

I'm pretty sure that most of these "casual" types come from decent homes.

 

That doesn't stop someone being a lumpen prole though.

[Acey]

Boris, I'm still waiting on that revolution you promised.

[Boris]

Boris, I'm still waiting on that revolution you promised.

 

Patience young one, patience.

[Acey]

In all seriousness, it'll never happen, sorry.

[Boris]

In all seriousness, it'll never happen, sorry.

 

Never say never, and to be fair it needn't necessarily come about in a violent way.

 

However, gievn the grip the right wing bourgoisehave on the media, the means of production and Government it is hardly surprising.

 

I was speaking to a law lecturer the other day and I said that law is essentially there to protect property rights rather than individual rights to which he more or less agreed. If we cared about humanity as much as we did about property we would be sorted.

[the general]

oh come on guys its only a bit of fun,part of growing up for some.I for one am glad that Hearts seem to have a proper crew again.was fed up with the hobos ruling Edinburgh's streets!

[Rick Grimes]

what surprises me more is the amount of over 30s who still indulge in this sort of nonsense. how stupid are these people?

[Acey]

oh come on guys its only a bit of fun,part of growing up for some.I for one am glad that Hearts seem to have a proper crew again.was fed up with the hobos ruling Edinburgh's streets!

 

What about the victims? Is it just "a bit of fun" for them too?

 

Also, I have no idea WTF you're on about re. "hobos ruling Edinburgh's streets". Get a fecking grip you sad act.

[the general]

What about the victims? Is it just "a bit of fun" for them too?

 

Also, I have no idea WTF you're on about re. "hobos ruling Edinburgh's streets". Get a fecking grip you sad act.

 

victims? who are you talking about ...

[Acey]

victims? who are you talking about ...

 

They're all fashion victims, love.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No but seriously if you don't think that football hooliganism has victims then I don't know where to begin.

[the general]

They're all fashion victims, love.

 

 

cheers darling .. well explained x

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No but seriously if you don't think that football hooliganism has victims then I don't know where to begin.

[ernie winchester]

Dramatic increase in the rise of the lumpen proletariat due to Thatcherite policy decisons over the last 30 years.

 

Instead of trying to tackle social issues, the governmental response has been to punish. Which is correct when people break the law and are caught but does nothing to aleviate the underlying socio-economic reasons for such behaviour thus creating and maintaining a cycle of such actions.

 

Rampant consumerism and free market capitalism leads to the alienation of individuals. Membership of a "gang" perhaps gives some focus for these lost souls and a misguided sense of belonging and loyalty.

 

Of course while the ruling class bluster about eradicating this, they also tacitly encourage this as it divides and conquers traditional working class people as these lumpen proles are used as agent provoceteurs by the bourgeois establishment to neuter and dilute any class consciousness these people may have had thus allowing the ruling elite to carry on as usual, lining their pockets all the way. It also provides ammunition for the right wing press to scare the meek middle class intop believing that without their leadership (their being the bourgeois "elite") then the country would fall to rack and ruin. A self preserving cycle, if you like.

 

Well, that's one take on it anyway.

 

Good stuff Boris.

[number16]

They're all fashion victims, love.

 

 

 

 

No but seriously if you don't think that football hooliganism has victims then I don't know where to begin.

 

There are two main types of victims I'm aware of;

 

Police that try to break up the incidents instead of just letting them knock lumps out of each other. Usually better protected and armed than the casuals anyway.

 

Victims of Hibees; the choobes seem to be under the impression that casuals wear colours in old-man pubs or are the manaquins in the windows of shopping centres.

 

Any casuals that get hurt are there by their own doing and aren't victims.

 

 

I say that as an outsider though, I may be corrected by those in the know.

[Denny Crane]

oh come on guys its only a bit of fun,part of growing up for some.I for one am glad that Hearts seem to have a proper crew again.was fed up with the hobos ruling Edinburgh's streets!

 

[Anatoly_Korobochka]

These colours don't run

[Vlad-Stupid]

Their fans will be going home in a coffin......

[the general]

your going home in a freeken ambulance ...

[Captain_Peacock]

The Football supporters federation are offering a different view on the subject & also suggest there is a hidden agenda http://www.fsf.org.u...-add-up.php?id=

 

Latest Home Office figures actually show a decrease in trouble at games with just 0.01% of the 37m people who attend football matches arrested, and only one in 10 of those for offences of violence.

Nevertheless, latest stats leaked to the BBC from senior police officials claim that football disorder ?incidents? involving young people are on the rise having climbed from 38 in 07/08 to 103 in 08/09. (Note ?incidents?, not arrests or convictions.)

 

So where do these figures come from then? They?re based on statistics from the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO), a non-government, private company which receives funding from the UK?s 44 police authorities and the Home Office.

ACPO?s sudden flurry of press activity comes 12 days before the government is set to announce potentially massive spending cuts and at a time when the police themselves are pushing the government to reconsider the issue of ?full cost recovery?. Basically they want football clubs to cover the cost of policing away from stadiums on matchdays ? something the law currently prohibits.The FSF have spoken to the UK Football Policing Unit, who categorically denied releasing these statistics to the media. Whoever did leak this story has an uncanny knack for timing, though, and it is fortuitous for the ACPO and the UK Football Policing Unit (UKFPU) for the media to be running sensationalist stories about hooliganism days before budgets are decided.

 

Hard to comment on the overall picture but from my limited experiance I haven't seen a dramatic increase in levels of disorder at games I've attended, perhaps FSF have a point re timming / budgets.