Reintroduction of standing at SPL matches

[bringbackterracing]

Hello users of kambos kickback.

 

20 days ago I setup a Facebook group to show support for the reintroduction of standing at SPL matches. In this short space of time the group has rocketed to over 1300 members !

 

We invite fans of every club and indeed division to show support to our group. Even if you personally do not wish to stand other do, and those fans should be catered for and given a CHOICE to sit or stand.

 

The Group advocates following the much talked about German and Austrian "Safestanding" terracing model. This would allow Scottish football fans to view the match standing in a safe enviroment. We also wish to see the scrapping of the 6000 thousand covered seat rule with no terracing for SFL clubs who are promoted to the SPL. Why should fans be punished for success ?

 

We are currently running an MSP email campaign, there is an email template available to use on the "event page". So far we have recived replies from a number of MSP's which include:

 

Hugh O'Donnel MSP "From a purely personal perspective, provided there were adequate safety measures in place I would have no objections."

 

Kenneth Gibson MSP"...if some fans wish to stand then they should be catered for, if it's possible to do so safely. The issues that led to all seated stadiums have declined somewhat and if a section of a ground can be safely made into terracing - for season ticket holders perhaps, although not, I would suggest, away fans - then it should be looked at."

 

Duncan McNeil MSP.

 

"I think you raise a number of good points and the idea of lower ticket prices is certainly very attractive given the high costs associated with the modern day game.

 

I am unaware of any plans to revisit the issue of terracing but I don't think that should stop you testing the legislation with your campaign to see if this is a viable proposal."

The group shall in the near future be undertaking various methods to show our views to the wider public and build support.

 

Please join the group and subscribe to our Youtube Channel.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151038524916484

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/BringBackStanding

 

Thank you everyone at Jambos Kickback.

 

We also have an email if you wish to contact us [email protected]

[bringbackterracing]

Our logo in Maroon. Feel free to use as avatars etc

 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

It will never happen , although it could be better organised through a ticketing allocated standing spot for every spectator , the modern stadiums are far too steep , with the steps being bigger the risk of injury would be greater if a fan fell over resulting in clubs having to pay a higher insurance premium It would also bring out the trouble makers in these standing sections like in section N did . The Taylor report is law

End of thread .

[davemclaren]

It will never happen , although it could be better organised through a ticketing allocated standing spot for every spectator , the modern stadiums are far too steep , with the steps being bigger the risk of injury would be greater if a fan fell over resulting in clubs having to pay a higher insurance premium It would also bring out the trouble makers in these standing sections like in section N did . The Taylor report is law

End of thread .

 

The Taylor report is not law in Scotland. However, I agree it won't happen due to politicians not willing to take the risk but I personally believe how it is done in Germany is perfectly safe.

[The People's Chimp]

I'd love to be able to stand at an away game, It'd definitely boost away attendances.

 

Thinking about my seat at Tynie, next to my dad, second row up in section p, I'd be loathe to give that up.

 

And OP don't listen to the maroon won; 99% tripe is his usual posting style. So what if the Taylor report is law? Laws change, as is the wont of parliament. Anyway, the German example is perhaps the ideal solution.

 

I think it would be tricky to change many stadiums and a number could never manage it, but certainly stadiums like the new st mirren plastic box are a disgrace for atmosphere and it's killing the clubs. At Tynie I could see it being introduced in the two enclosures, but nowhere else would be feasible.

[kitster]

It was safe. Still could be now. All for it. Sad that we all think it won't come back. Scottish football is dying! My dad used to take me into the shed quite young...I loved the terracing..it was such a great atmosphere back then..now you have to try and find folk at half time with your mobile to meet them.

[Jungle]

Hello users of kambos kickback.

 

20 days ago I setup a Facebook group to show support for the reintroduction of standing at SPL matches. In this short space of time the group has rocketed to over 1300 members !

 

We invite fans of every club and indeed division to show support to our group. Even if you personally do not wish to stand other do, and those fans should be catered for and given a CHOICE to sit or stand.

 

The Group advocates following the much talked about German and Austrian "Safestanding" terracing model. This would allow Scottish football fans to view the match standing in a safe enviroment. We also wish to see the scrapping of the 6000 thousand covered seat rule with no terracing for SFL clubs who are promoted to the SPL. Why should fans be punished for success ?

 

We are currently running an MSP email campaign, there is an email template available to use on the "event page". So far we have recived replies from a number of MSP's which include:

 

Hugh O'Donnel MSP "From a purely personal perspective, provided there were adequate safety measures in place I would have no objections."

 

Kenneth Gibson MSP"...if some fans wish to stand then they should be catered for, if it's possible to do so safely. The issues that led to all seated stadiums have declined somewhat and if a section of a ground can be safely made into terracing - for season ticket holders perhaps, although not, I would suggest, away fans - then it should be looked at."

 

Duncan McNeil MSP.

 

"I think you raise a number of good points and the idea of lower ticket prices is certainly very attractive given the high costs associated with the modern day game.

 

I am unaware of any plans to revisit the issue of terracing but I don't think that should stop you testing the legislation with your campaign to see if this is a viable proposal."

The group shall in the near future be undertaking various methods to show our views to the wider public and build support.

 

Please join the group and subscribe to our Youtube Channel.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151038524916484

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/BringBackStanding

 

Thank you everyone at Jambos Kickback.

 

We also have an email if you wish to contact us [email protected]

 

 

 

 

 

This might sound daft but can you fit more people in terraced areas?

[Boomstick]

This might sound daft but can you fit more people in terraced areas?

 

1.5 people in a standing area that would usually accommodate 1 seat I think is the norm.

[Jungle]

1.5 people in a standing area that would usually accommodate 1 seat I think is the norm.

 

 

Cheers for that.

 

I met an old friend who was 0.5 of a person.

 

He was half the man he used to be!

[The Future's Maroon]

:lol:

[Guest GhostHunter]

Kambos Kickback ?

[Swanny17]

Too right Terracing should be re-introduced.

 

It exististed for probably over 100 years in football. For all the matches that happened every weekend across the world, and all the thousands of fans standing in the terracing watching those matches, there have only been a handful of reported incidents.

 

It's not the terracing that's unsafe, it's the policing of the terracing IMO.

 

BRING IT BACK!

[The Treasurer]

It will never happen , although it could be better organised through a ticketing allocated standing spot for every spectator , the modern stadiums are far too steep , with the steps being bigger the risk of injury would be greater if a fan fell over resulting in clubs having to pay a higher insurance premium It would also bring out the trouble makers in these standing sections like in section N did . The Taylor report is law

End of thread .

 

The myth that modern stadiums are too steep is ridiculous.

I'm sure the more mature among us remember the old Tannadice terracing which was like a cliff face.

I've had more injuries due to falling over or whacking my shin when "celebrating" in all-seated stadiums than I ever did on the old terraces.

[flecktimus]

Bring back the terrace so we can get rid of The Knob who sits behind me threads

[BRY]

Can anyone enlighten me on what the German method is, and why it's so well-renowned?

[Walter Bishop]

Manchester united fans stand at every away match, they refuse to sit down. Last week v Bolton, they had their allocation cut by 2,000 by the Police! Bolton were furious as they said they had no problem with the standing and were happy to accomodate it!!!

[maroonshrew]

I might be shot down here but does anyone else agree that they dont want terracign re-introduced? I prefer seating. Not just due to the safety aspect but I think it's more child friendly, in the same way I wouldnt want drinking at the game. Although I agree there seems to be little harm in the idea of terraced sections, i would hate for Tynecastle ot be all terraced again.

[milky_26]

I might be shot down here but does anyone else agree that they dont want terracign re-introduced? I prefer seating. Not just due to the safety aspect but I think it's more child friendly, in the same way I wouldnt want drinking at the game. Although I agree there seems to be little harm in the idea of terraced sections, i would hate for Tynecastle ot be all terraced again.

i dont think full terracing would ever be re-introduced. But a section for standing would be good, possibly increasing attendances and also improving atmosphere.

[Eckauskas]

To be fair, we all stand at home games anyway. At least in my section they do.

 

Until fairly recently, we used to stand at away games too.

[maroonshrew]

i dont think full terracing would ever be re-introduced. But a section for standing would be good, possibly increasing attendances and also improving atmosphere.

 

i agree with the improving atmosphere in theory but when we say improve it, you mean like its better at away games than at home one, and by that we mean there are a lot more idiots. I worry that terracing would just welcome our moron element to home games as well as away.

[Gods a Jambo]

I might be shot down here but does anyone else agree that they dont want terracign re-introduced? I prefer seating. Not just due to the safety aspect but I think it's more child friendly, in the same way I wouldnt want drinking at the game. Although I agree there seems to be little harm in the idea of terraced sections, i would hate for Tynecastle ot be all terraced again.

 

 

Sorry but its that type of thinking that is killing the game. You're going to a football match no the pictures. I was going to games aged 5 and teh standing was never a problem as all the kids used to run about at the bottom of the stand. Young kids get ants in their pants at games anyway and start playing up as the want to go on a wander, when we had standing your old man just sent you down the front and you used to muck about with all the other kids.

[maroonshrew]

Sorry but its that type of thinking that is killing the game. You're going to a football match no the pictures. I was going to games aged 5 and teh standing was never a problem as all the kids used to run about at the bottom of the stand. Young kids get ants in their pants at games anyway and start playing up as the want to go on a wander, when we had standing your old man just sent you down the front and you used to muck about with all the other kids.

 

I wouldnt say its killing the game, neither is right nor wrong. Times change. I understand kids used to run about all over the place, kids used to do that in the street until it got dark, theres a lot of things you used to be able to do but cant now. Not that im saying you are one of these fans, but I personally hate the argument that if youre not vocal or singing then youre not a proper fan. I know Im not at the pictures and I care about Hearts as much as any other fan in the ground but I choose not to sing or chant. No better or worse a fan. I remember when they said the backpass rule would kill the game, when no drinking in the ground would kill the game. Id say there are bigger things killing the game, one of which is strongly assosciated with the demand for re introduction of terracing.

[The Treasurer]

I wouldnt say its killing the game, neither is right nor wrong. Times change. I understand kids used to run about all over the place, kids used to do that in the street until it got dark, theres a lot of things you used to be able to do but cant now. Not that im saying you are one of these fans, but I personally hate the argument that if youre not vocal or singing then youre not a proper fan. I know Im not at the pictures and I care about Hearts as much as any other fan in the ground but I choose not to sing or chant. No better or worse a fan. I remember when they said the backpass rule would kill the game, when no drinking in the ground would kill the game. Id say there are bigger things killing the game, one of which is strongly assosciated with the demand for re introduction of terracing.

 

All very criptic but I assume you mean singing "nasty" songs.

If someone plans to be an arse at a game they will do so whether they are standing or sitting.

Any terracing would be controlled and heavily policed therefore any "non-pc" activity would be quickly spotted and dealt with.

It would also result in the rest of the stadium being free from all these nasty people leaving the rest of the "audience" to rustle their sweety papers in peace.

[john brownlee]

I might be shot down here but does anyone else agree that they dont want terracign re-introduced? I prefer seating. Not just due to the safety aspect but I think it's more child friendly, in the same way I wouldnt want drinking at the game. Although I agree there seems to be little harm in the idea of terraced sections, i would hate for Tynecastle ot be all terraced again.

 

 

agree

 

remember not everybody is six foot plus, seated everybody has a good view of the game and not bobbin' about like a cork on the high seas

[maroonshrew]

All very criptic but I assume you mean singing "nasty" songs.

If someone plans to be an arse at a game they will do so whether they are standing or sitting.

Any terracing would be controlled and heavily policed therefore any "non-pc" activity would be quickly spotted and dealt with.

It would also result in the rest of the stadium being free from all these nasty people leaving the rest of the "audience" to rustle their sweety papers in peace.

 

This is one of the things, I dont think I was cryptic in any way. Although in my first post i think it was, i agree that a standing section seems to be a logical compromise. I just disagree that me wanting seated stadiums is 'killing the game'.

[Gibbo]

I prefer to sit, and I want those people who would rather stand to have the choice. Properly designed terracing is safe. Standing in areas designed for sitting isn't.

 

The Taylor Report is law in England and Wales. In Scotland it is an SFA regulation, but not law. I believe that the SFA pre-empted government action as they feared that the politicians might make it apply the First Division as well as the Premier League.

[Gods a Jambo]

I wouldnt say its killing the game, neither is right nor wrong. Times change. I understand kids used to run about all over the place, kids used to do that in the street until it got dark, theres a lot of things you used to be able to do but cant now. Not that im saying you are one of these fans, but I personally hate the argument that if youre not vocal or singing then youre not a proper fan. I know Im not at the pictures and I care about Hearts as much as any other fan in the ground but I choose not to sing or chant. No better or worse a fan. I remember when they said the backpass rule would kill the game, when no drinking in the ground would kill the game. Id say there are bigger things killing the game, one of which is strongly assosciated with the demand for re introduction of terracing.

 

 

I would disagree and say that seating in scotland is helping to kill the game. Grounds are like a ******* morgue at times and it has to do with seating in my opinion. I accept things change and your simplistic response ignores my point. You stated that seating was more child friendly and I explained how that was nonsense due to the reasons i gave. You are in the ground to support your team, be that cheering or singing, not sitting like its a libary. If every fan adopted your attitude the place would be silent. Players call fans the twelth man and you will often see players telling the fans to up the noise, there is a reason for that.

 

Standing at games created a better atmoshere in my opinion and having been to a good few grounds over the world where standing is still done i feel bringing it back to Scotland would help the game. I hate the seating and always have done, unless you and your mates all get season tickets at the same time you are spread all over the stand/stadium, people constantly moan about the guy behind or infront, if it was standing you just move away and dont bother with the person again.

 

There should at least be the choice to sit or stand.

[john brownlee]

add to my earlier point if there was a standing sect, rather than going back to the good ol'days then OK maybe its an age and family thing but there's a lot of people out there are glad there's plenty of seating. also do you remember how long it used to be, to get you out of the school end after the match, the early leavers weren't so noticeable. I for one won't be giving up my seat

[frankblack]

I would disagree and say that seating in scotland is helping to kill the game. Grounds are like a ******* morgue at times and it has to do with seating in my opinion. I accept things change and your simplistic response ignores my point. You stated that seating was more child friendly and I explained how that was nonsense due to the reasons i gave. You are in the ground to support your team, be that cheering or singing, not sitting like its a libary. If every fan adopted your attitude the place would be silent. Players call fans the twelth man and you will often see players telling the fans to up the noise, there is a reason for that.

 

I find that the atmosphere is generally poor when we are playing pish, and that has nothing to do with sitting or standing.

 

If there is no quality on the park and we are getting beat due to incompetence from the players like we did against Motherwell, how do you get people to improve the atmosphere?

 

Standing at games created a better atmoshere in my opinion and having been to a good few grounds over the world where standing is still done i feel bringing it back to Scotland would help the game. I hate the seating and always have done, unless you and your mates all get season tickets at the same time you are spread all over the stand/stadium, people constantly moan about the guy behind or infront, if it was standing you just move away and dont bother with the person again.

 

There should at least be the choice to sit or stand.

 

I think that is just nostalgia harking back to the good old days. The atmosphere was just as bad then when we got beat.

 

If the team is generally playing well the crowd will get behind them - seated or standing.

[Gods a Jambo]

I find that the atmosphere is generally poor when we are playing pish, and that has nothing to do with sitting or standing.

 

If there is no quality on the park and we are getting beat due to incompetence from the players like we did against Motherwell, how do you get people to improve the atmosphere?

 

 

 

I think that is just nostalgia harking back to the good old days. The atmosphere was just as bad then when we got beat.

 

If the team is generally playing well the crowd will get behind them - seated or standing.

 

 

Thats your take on it, personally i disagree as seating gives a family enclosure feel. Go to away games when folk are standing and you see that more people are singing etc as those who want to sing are grouped together. If your trying to tell me the singing is constant and loud at tynie these days even when were winning your wrong. With the exception of Hibs or the old firm you very rarely get singing. Bring in a standing section and those who are up for a bit of singing will go there and it will create more atmosphere. When we had the shed we had far more songs on the go than we do now and thats nothing to do with nostalgia.

[The Treasurer]

add to my earlier point if there was a standing sect, rather than going back to the good ol'days then OK maybe its an age and family thing but there's a lot of people out there are glad there's plenty of seating. also do you remember how long it used to be, to get you out of the school end after the match, the early leavers weren't so noticeable. I for one won't be giving up my seat

 

I don't think anyone is asking for the stadiums to be all terracing.

Even in the "good old days" as you call them there was a choice between standing and sitting..

As for your last point, it takes far longer to get out nowadays from the back of the Wheatfield than it ever did from any part of the terracing

[bringbackterracing]

Can anyone enlighten me on what the German method is, and why it's so well-renowned?

 

As it is safe and modern approach to terracing. If you would like to read a comprehensive report into the reitnroduction of standing (Parts about german model in it) then click this link.

 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/safe-standing-report-web(1).pdf

[Craig Herbertson]

Standing, at least a section where people can stand. It's not much to ask.

[Currahee!]

To be fair, we all stand at home games anyway. At least in my section they do.

 

Until fairly recently, we used to stand at away games too.

 

I can't remember the last time I sat at Tynecastle. You must be in section N?

 

Nobody sits and nobody complains. It works fine.

[Charlie-Brown]

Something like this at Tynecastle - perhaps in one of the lower sections would be preferable then those who want to stand could get an ST for that section ... I imagine it would also help increase capacity slightly.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I've stood in section N three or four times and it was great

 

I'd prefer to stand if given the choice, seating is good for the elderly and families but it's better to stand. I think a standing section would be great. It could be restricted to over 16s, properly policed and it would be grand.

[Eckauskas]

I can't remember the last time I sat at Tynecastle. You must be in section N?

 

Nobody sits and nobody complains. It works fine.

 

I am indeed.

 

I remember a few weeks ago, some power mad numpty steward tried to get the whole of N2 to sit down. Trumpet

[Therapist]

Hello users of kambos kickback.

 

20 days ago I setup a Facebook group to show support for the reintroduction of standing at SPL matches. In this short space of time the group has rocketed to over 1300 members !

 

We invite fans of every club and indeed division to show support to our group. Even if you personally do not wish to stand other do, and those fans should be catered for and given a CHOICE to sit or stand.

 

The Group advocates following the much talked about German and Austrian "Safestanding" terracing model. This would allow Scottish football fans to view the match standing in a safe enviroment. We also wish to see the scrapping of the 6000 thousand covered seat rule with no terracing for SFL clubs who are promoted to the SPL. Why should fans be punished for success ?

 

We are currently running an MSP email campaign, there is an email template available to use on the "event page". So far we have recived replies from a number of MSP's which include:

 

Hugh O'Donnel MSP "From a purely personal perspective, provided there were adequate safety measures in place I would have no objections."

 

Kenneth Gibson MSP"...if some fans wish to stand then they should be catered for, if it's possible to do so safely. The issues that led to all seated stadiums have declined somewhat and if a section of a ground can be safely made into terracing - for season ticket holders perhaps, although not, I would suggest, away fans - then it should be looked at."

 

Duncan McNeil MSP.

 

"I think you raise a number of good points and the idea of lower ticket prices is certainly very attractive given the high costs associated with the modern day game.

 

I am unaware of any plans to revisit the issue of terracing but I don't think that should stop you testing the legislation with your campaign to see if this is a viable proposal."

The group shall in the near future be undertaking various methods to show our views to the wider public and build support.

 

Please join the group and subscribe to our Youtube Channel.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=151038524916484

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/BringBackStanding

 

Thank you everyone at Jambos Kickback.

 

We also have an email if you wish to contact us [email protected]

 

Give it a rest. It's not going to happen so I suggest you direct your energy into something more realistic and/or beneficial. I trust you find this advice useful.

[Therapist]

As it is safe and modern approach to terracing. If you would like to read a comprehensive report into the reitnroduction of standing (Parts about german model in it) then click this link.

 

http://www.fsf.org.uk/media/uploaded/safe-standing-report-web(1).pdf

 

No offence, but we didn't fight WW2 to follow the "German model".

[Currahee!]

I am indeed.

 

I remember a few weeks ago, some power mad numpty steward tried to get the whole of N2 to sit down. Trumpet

 

Would that be the wee steward by any chance?

 

I think he once tried to get into the police but failed because of his height limitations. So he takes his wrath out on us. To be fair to the guy he's been fairly quiet over the last season or 2. I have started noticing his presence again though.

[Gods a Jambo]

No offence, but we didn't fight WW2 to follow the "German model".

 

Jesus wept! Even for you thats dire.

[Eckauskas]

Would that be the wee steward by any chance?

 

I think he once tried to get into the police but failed because of his height limitations. So he takes his wrath out on us. To be fair to the guy he's been fairly quiet over the last season or 2. I have started noticing his presence again though.

 

Wee pleb with glasses?

 

Tries to amuse himself by throwing his weight around. Quite funny to see it, as he is always told to bolt by whoever he is harrassing.

[davemclaren]

No offence, but we didn't fight WW2 to follow the "German model".

 

 

Essex man strikes again.

[trigger21]

I think that most of the previous issues with terracing in the past i.e crushing and over crowding, were more to do with victorian football grounds and the way that they were policed. I really cannot see any issue with modern football grounds having a limited standing area if it is properly ticketed and policed. I think this would go a long way to improving the atmosphere at SPL grounds and may even attract some fans back. For those who prefer to sit I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting that we go back to having the majority of the ground as a standing area rather a small section e.g. the front section of the Roseburn or Gorgie Rd end. I don't think the steepness of the stands is really an issue as there would probably be crush barriers on every row or every second row.

Lets face it if German fans can stand on huge terraces that are usually sold out surely we can safely stand in grounds in Scotland are normally only attended by about 8-10k?

[bringbackterracing]

Group is now over the 1600 mark ! Big thanks to everyone who has joined from Jambos Kickback.

[Currahee!]

Wee pleb with glasses?

 

Tries to amuse himself by throwing his weight around. Quite funny to see it, as he is always told to bolt by whoever he is harrassing.

 

Aye thats him. He's a welt.

 

I wonder what he'll be like tommorrow. Quiet or his usual self?

[Jimmy McNulty]

This might sound daft but can you fit more people in terraced areas?

 

Well, our capacity used to be >29,000.

 

AND we used to fill it when Hibs came to Gorgie.

[bringbackterracing]

Red Army 12 supporters group have endorsed the campaign and so has another MSP

 

Michael McMahon MSP

 

"As a keen football fan myself and season ticket holder at Celtic Park I fully endorse your campaign and concur with the arguments you outline in support of returning standing areas at football matches."

[Ben Dover]

Red Army 12 supporters group have endorsed the campaign and so has another MSP

 

Michael McMahon MSP

 

"As a keen football fan myself and season ticket holder at Celtic Park I fully endorse your campaign and concur with the arguments you outline in support of returning standing areas at football matches."

 

Talk is cheap though BBT and he's unlikely to lose his seat ( pardon the pun ) over this wee issue

The Police will advise against it though as it's far easier for them to manage a crowd when it's folk

crammed into rows of seats. It might open a whole can of worms though, if say our old enclosure

area was returned to terracing and the idea was then to take off !

[bringbackterracing]

I know this is not the case but the police should not have a say in SPL rules and regulations.

 

- How do the Police have a better knowledge over how to boost attendences than the SPL ?

 

- How do the Police no what's right for OUR game ?

 

- How do the Police manage to have a say on telling us how bad standing and terracing when they were on of the leading factors in Britains worst ever football disaster ?

 

- How do the Police even get a ******* say when it's **** all to do with them in reality, I don't see the Garda in Ireland up in arms over the terracing at GAA or the Police in england greetin at Terracing in the Rugby League.

 

Simply the police should be told shut the **** up, mind the there buisness, and try to catch some criminals and maybe just for once try not criminalise all football fans.