jambogarry Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Had to laugh at the lack of respect Rankers are given in this, Also the draw makes me think http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/jim-white/article/23541/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Had to laugh at the lack of respect Rankers are given in this, Also the draw makes me think http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/jim-white/article/23541/ Rangers are quite rightly given every lack of respect because they are proven to be utter gash. The huns will be the whipping boys of the group, and finishing bottom will flatter them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Of course the CL draw is fixed so that the teams that will draw the biggest tv audience will get through to the next round. It proves that this so-called competition is purely a money making exercise for UEFA and the most powerful teams/countries. ** ** Despite what those deluded bigots think this does not include the OF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del1812 Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 I hate seeding. To ensure that as much viewers watch as possible. It's the Champions League FFS. Viewers are going to tune in, no matter what. I really hope that viewers actually start to decline soon. It may be a long shot but it is possible people will start to reject the opportunity to see the same teams playing each other every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambogarry Posted August 27, 2010 Author Share Posted August 27, 2010 I hate seeding. To ensure that as much viewers watch as possible. It's the Champions League FFS. Viewers are going to tune in, no matter what. I really hope that viewers actually start to decline soon. It may be a long shot but it is possible people will start to reject the opportunity to see the same teams playing each other every year. I dont watch many CL games as I find it boring, If I do watch a game, I cringe when all the Music and patter starts . The likes of (Man U, Real, Inter,Chelsea, Pool, Barca).... you name it ,and 9/10 its keek. Hearts are different though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peebo Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 I'm no fan of the Champions League format. Platini has improved it a bit by making it easier for smaller countries to be represented, but the group stage are nearly always dull and predictable. It's not worth watching until the knock-out stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey J J Jr Shabadoo Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Spot on article and very, very true. The European Cup was far better, knock out games all the way through & the best team, generally, won. We will never see a final of teams like Forest v Malmo again. If we must have groups, then do away with seeding. Might end up with a group like Real, Barca, Inter & Milan. Even I'd watch that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jambomickey Posted August 27, 2010 Share Posted August 27, 2010 Had to laugh at the lack of respect Rankers are given in this, Also the draw makes me think http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/football/jim-white/article/23541/ draw is made to suit the bigger teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I hate seeding. To ensure that as much viewers watch as possible. It's the Champions League FFS. Viewers are going to tune in, no matter what. I really hope that viewers actually start to decline soon. It may be a long shot but it is possible people will start to reject the opportunity to see the same teams playing each other every year. I completely agree Forrester, seeding ruins football. It is only for the benefit of big teams and TV. Ask a tv viewer which group they would rather see, Barcelona, Panathinakos, Copenhagan and Rubin Kazan or Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Manchester United and Inter Milan but it would mean smaller teams get into the last 16, they would choose the latter. Its like the dumb argument where people claim you need two of the big four in the FA cup final for people to watch it. Nonsense, I would love to see two Championship teams get into the final and battle it out for the match as it really means something to both their fans and team. As people always say (and I agree) that the champions League should be the champions of each country. The fact the fourth placed team of some leagues gets into it is disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I completely agree Forrester, seeding ruins football. It is only for the benefit of big teams and TV. Ask a tv viewer which group they would rather see, Barcelona, Panathinakos, Copenhagan and Rubin Kazan or Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Manchester United and Inter Milan but it would mean smaller teams get into the last 16, they would choose the latter. Its like the dumb argument where people claim you need two of the big four in the FA cup final for people to watch it. Nonsense, I would love to see two Championship teams get into the final and battle it out for the match as it really means something to both their fans and team. As people always say (and I agree) that the champions League should be the champions of each country. The fact the fourth placed team of some leagues gets into it is disgraceful. Except that come the last 16, then they'd start complaining about one-sided ties. Just as people moaned for years and years about the predictability of the FA Cup - yet in 2008, when there were simply too many upsets, then they moaned about a semi-final line-up of Portsmouth, Cardiff, West Brom and Barnsley. And I'm afraid you'll find the viewing figures for the Pompey-Cardiff final were considerably lower than normal. In football's most important tournaments, I want a mixture of surprises, great stories and the cream rising to the top. That's why I'm in favour of seeding at international tournaments or in the CL, just as I'm in favour of it for Wimbledon or the World Snooker Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Except that come the last 16, then they'd start complaining about one-sided ties. Just as people moaned for years and years about the predictability of the FA Cup - yet in 2008, when there were simply too many upsets, then they moaned about a semi-final line-up of Portsmouth, Cardiff, West Brom and Barnsley. And I'm afraid you'll find the viewing figures for the Pompey-Cardiff final were considerably lower than normal. In football's most important tournaments, I want a mixture of surprises, great stories and the cream rising to the top. That's why I'm in favour of seeding at international tournaments or in the CL, just as I'm in favour of it for Wimbledon or the World Snooker Championship. but thats the thing, its for the benefit of the viewer at home, not the teams competing. Thats why I dont like seeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 but thats the thing, its for the benefit of the viewer at home, not the teams competing. Thats why I dont like seeding. If it wasn't for the viewers at home, many sportsmen might be struggling to make a living. The viewing public have to count for something in professional sport; and the money made by sportspeople has to come from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 The Champions League has been boring for a while. As has already been mentioned do away with seeding and automatic qualification except for the champions. Chuck everyone in the mixer of trying to qualify. I'll predict 2 English teams in the semis, along with a Spanish and Italian/German team. Same pish as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 The Champions League has been boring for a while. As has already been mentioned do away with seeding and automatic qualification except for the champions. Chuck everyone in the mixer of trying to qualify. I'll predict 2 English teams in the semis, along with a Spanish and Italian/German team. Same pish as usual. Why do people keep proposing things which can't happen, then attack administrators for not doing things which can't happen? My last four this year? Hmm... Barcelona (winners), Real Madrid, Arsenal, Chelsea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Except that come the last 16, then they'd start complaining about one-sided ties. Just as people moaned for years and years about the predictability of the FA Cup - yet in 2008, when there were simply too many upsets, then they moaned about a semi-final line-up of Portsmouth, Cardiff, West Brom and Barnsley. And I'm afraid you'll find the viewing figures for the Pompey-Cardiff final were considerably lower than normal. In football's most important tournaments, I want a mixture of surprises, great stories and the cream rising to the top. That's why I'm in favour of seeding at international tournaments or in the CL, just as I'm in favour of it for Wimbledon or the World Snooker Championship. Yes, but that only started in the TV age. The shock factor of the FA Cup has been trashed by lamebrains whose only experience of football is on the telly rather than actually attending a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Yes, but that only started in the TV age. The shock factor of the FA Cup has been trashed by lamebrains whose only experience of football is on the telly rather than actually attending a match. The FA Cup began to die when the Premier League was created; and continued its decline as the Champions League expanded. The dates confirm this: since 1991, there's only been one very good final, and most have been shockers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Why do people keep proposing things which can't happen, then attack administrators for not doing things which can't happen? My last four this year? Hmm... Barcelona (winners), Real Madrid, Arsenal, Chelsea. The only reason it's not happening is due to money. If more of the public realise that it's boring pish then that will dry up..not far off imo. Uefa will have to have another rebranding....tweak of the rules. Afterall, what's the point of entering a competition if you've no chance of winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 The FA Cup began to die when the Premier League was created; and continued its decline as the Champions League expanded. The dates confirm this: since 1991, there's only been one very good final, and most have been shockers. I'd disagree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 The only reason it's not happening is due to money. If more of the public realise that it's boring pish then that will dry up..not far off imo. Uefa will have to have another rebranding....tweak of the rules. Afterall, what's the point of entering a competition if you've no chance of winning? You could say that for all manner of clubs in all manner of competitions. The point is to be the best you can be; only one club can win any tournament. Seeding is in place to protect the CL from the biggest clubs - who hold all the power in football - from buggering off and forming a closed Super League under their rules. UEFA have no choice, and have done pretty well to find a workable compromise: especially in terms of expanding the CL knock-out stage in 2004, which has worked extremely well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 The FA Cup began to die when the Premier League was created; and continued its decline as the Champions League expanded. The dates confirm this: since 1991, there's only been one very good final, and most have been shockers. Finals in general are rubbish. It's the getting there that is the event. I can just about remember the 1977 final when I was 2 and a few months old, because United beat the scousers (on a B&W TV as well). My first colour final caused me to bawl my eyes out when Arsenal scored the last minute winner in the five minute winner. After that, there were very few great finals. United and Brighton in 1983 for "And Smith Must Score" but the replay was a walkover. Everton and United in 1985 is only memorable because Kevin Moran was sent off and Big Norm scored the winner. Liverpool winning the double in 1986 was memorable I suppose but the game was rubbish etc. The point is that the finals had drama as opposed to quality. Only Coventry and Tottenham in 1987 and the Scouse derby in 1989 could really be classed as classic finals, so to blame the Premier League for the decline of the FA Cup is a fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I'd disagree with that. How many good finals have there been since 1991? Liverpool-West Ham 2006, and...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 How many good finals have there been since 1991? Liverpool-West Ham 2006, and...? By the drama criteria, you have Arsenal and Wednesday in 1993 (last kick of the replay to win the game). United and scouse again in 1996 (Eric le Roi) and then you are struggling. The lack of drama in finals is what is killing the FA Cup. Even Arsenal and United going to penalties was rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Finals in general are rubbish. It's the getting there that is the event. I can just about remember the 1977 final when I was 2 and a few months old, because United beat the scousers (on a B&W TV as well). My first colour final caused me to bawl my eyes out when Arsenal scored the last minute winner in the five minute winner. After that, there were very few great finals. United and Brighton in 1983 for "And Smith Must Score" but the replay was a walkover. Everton and United in 1985 is only memorable because Kevin Moran was sent off and Big Norm scored the winner. Liverpool winning the double in 1986 was memorable I suppose but the game was rubbish etc. The point is that the finals had drama as opposed to quality. Only Coventry and Tottenham in 1987 and the Scouse derby in 1989 could really be classed as classic finals, so to blame the Premier League for the decline of the FA Cup is a fallacy. Completely disagree. 1977? Good final. 1979? Great final and amazing finish. 1981? Fantastic final over two games. 1983? Amazing first game. 1986? Good final. 1987? Exhilarating final. 1989? Very good final. 1990? Tremendously absorbing 3-3 draw. 1991? Good final. And since then, almost nothing. On top of that, 1973, 1976, 1978, 1980 and 1988 were all major upsets. How many shocks have there been in finals since then? Er... um... none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 By the drama criteria, you have Arsenal and Wednesday in 1993 (last kick of the replay to win the game). United and scouse again in 1996 (Eric le Roi) and then you are struggling. The lack of drama in finals is what is killing the FA Cup. Even Arsenal and United going to penalties was rubbish. I do agree that drama is often as important as quality - but the 1993 final was pathetic. Appalling. Even though this Norwich fan will never, ever forget how the replay ended, with ex-Norwich defender Andy Linighan heading past ex-Norwich 'keeper Chris Woods and putting Norwich into Europe. But the two games themselves were pure murder. The '96 final (Spice Boys in their ridiculous white suits hoist by their own petard) was also atrocious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Palmer Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 How many good finals have there been since 1991? Liverpool-West Ham 2006, and...? Apart from that one. 2001 Michael **** Owen was rather enjoyable. As Geoff has pointed out 1989 was also a 'Classic' of course it doesn't fall within your parameters so doesn't matter. Ian Rush did score two of the best goals ever though. I get your point though Shaun. Same boring pish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linkin- hearts Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Isn't the seeding system they use for our league cup run along similar lines, to try and insure the bigger clubs come up against each other in the latter stages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slap Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Rangers are quite rightly given every lack of respect because they are proven to be utter gash. The huns will be the whipping boys of the group, and finishing bottom will flatter them. I think there is a real danger that they will get at least 2-3 severe humpings....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Tolbooth Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Isn't the seeding system they use for our league cup run along similar lines, to try and insure the bigger clubs come up against each other in the latter stages? That's ok though because we're seeded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givememychoice Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 I hate all this seeding, even in the league cup. Up until the start of the 90s, draws were unseeded and, if you won 5 fixtures (over 2 legs, except the final), then you would be the winner. (occasionally a couple of teams had to play a 6th fixture) Since the turn of the millennia though, this has gone up to 11/12 fixtures for the wee teams. And every round to the knockout stage is seeded. In the old days, a couple of lucky draws out the hat could see you in the quarter finals. When we got to the quarters in the uefa cup, we played an irish team, an austrian team and a yugoslav team. No chance of that happening now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phage Posted August 28, 2010 Share Posted August 28, 2010 Man U v Bayern was a pretty decent CL finale. I was in a room with a bunch of Germans :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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