Crowd Averages All-Time

[TNCASTLE]

I would be very interested to know the highest averages attained by all Scottish clubs and see where Hearts sit on that "table". Does anyone have these statisitcs to hand?

Apparenty Dundee FC and Partick Thistle FC have had some big averages in the past.

 

Hearts all-time as most would know is 28,196 ( A pictorial history 1874-1984). it is slighlty higher

in (Griity Gallant Glorious) as 28,400 in 1948-149 season. We went 13 seasons >20,000 average.

 

What were Hibernian in 1950 for example? I believe Motherwell also had a big average years ago.

Any assistance compiling this table would be good.

[kingantti1874]

This already exists and has been plotted on a graph- the link was posted on this board some time back...as u may have guessed, I don't have it..

[Gibbo]

A book called The Roar of the Crowd by David Ross will give you all the information that you need. ?5.99 new from Amazon, with second hand copies also available.

 

Old Firm crowds were far lower before all-seated stadiums boosted season ticket sales. Celtic never had an average of over 40,000 until 1996-97. Rangers were over 40,000 only 3 times before 1992-93.

 

Between WWI and WWII, the 2 best supported teams were Rangers and Hearts. We were top in 1923-24 (16,358), 1924-25 (17,500) and 1925-26 (18,474). This was because of a dip in their crowds, which usually averaged just over 20,000 in 1919-39. Celtic were not always 3rd in that period, and in 1924-25 their average of 11,000 was the 7th highest. They sometimes weren't even 2nd in Glasgow, slipping below Partick Thistle twice and Queens Park once.

 

All crowds rose sharply after the war, but Rangers continued to be top; their best average was 44,933 in 1949-50. From 1946-47 to 1954-55, the next highest was Celtic 5 times (best 37,205 in 1948-49) and Hibs 4 times (best 30,700 in 1951-52). We were either 3rd or 4th in these seasons (best 28,195 in 1948-49). The overall best season was 1948-49, with Dundee, Aberdeen and Partick Thistle all over 20,000, and another 8 clubs over 10,000.

 

From 1955-56 to 1960-61, our crowds were 2nd to those of Rangers. The range was 20,294 to 24,118 for us and 31,501 to 36,294 for them. Celtic twice and Hibs once were the only other clubs with an average over 20,000 in this period, but there were usually 10-14 averaging over 10,000. Celtic were 4th, behind both Edinburgh clubs, 3 times in 1946-61.

 

For some reason, the crowds of everybody except the Old Firm and Dundee (15,934), who were champions, plummeted in 1961-62. We fell bt over 6,000 to 13,592. There was a severe winter around then, but I think that it was the next one. Since then, the Old Firm have always been the top 2; Celtic were top for the first time in 1966-67 with an average of 31,082. The best non-Old Firm average from 1961-62 onwards is 17,993 by Aberdeen in 1971-72.

[TNCASTLE]

A book called The Roar of the Crowd by David Ross will give you all the information that you need. ?5.99 new from Amazon, with second hand copies also available.

 

Old Firm crowds were far lower before all-seated stadiums boosted season ticket sales. Celtic never had an average of over 40,000 until 1996-97. Rangers were over 40,000 only 3 times before 1992-93.

 

Between WWI and WWII, the 2 best supported teams were Rangers and Hearts. We were top in 1923-24 (16,358), 1924-25 (17,500) and 1925-26 (18,474). This was because of a dip in their crowds, which usually averaged just over 20,000 in 1919-39. Celtic were not always 3rd in that period, and in 1924-25 their average of 11,000 was the 7th highest. They sometimes weren't even 2nd in Glasgow, slipping below Partick Thistle twice and Queens Park once.

 

All crowds rose sharply after the war, but Rangers continued to be top; their best average was 44,933 in 1949-50. From 1946-47 to 1954-55, the next highest was Celtic 5 times (best 37,205 in 1948-49) and Hibs 4 times (best 30,700 in 1951-52). We were either 3rd or 4th in these seasons (best 28,195 in 1948-49). The overall best season was 1948-49, with Dundee, Aberdeen and Partick Thistle all over 20,000, and another 8 clubs over 10,000.

 

From 1955-56 to 1960-61, our crowds were 2nd to those of Rangers. The range was 20,294 to 24,118 for us and 31,501 to 36,294 for them. Celtic twice and Hibs once were the only other clubs with an average over 20,000 in this period, but there were usually 10-14 averaging over 10,000. Celtic were 4th, behind both Edinburgh clubs, 3 times in 1946-61.

 

For some reason, the crowds of everybody except the Old Firm and Dundee (15,934), who were champions, plummeted in 1961-62. We fell bt over 6,000 to 13,592. There was a severe winter around then, but I think that it was the next one. Since then, the Old Firm have always been the top 2; Celtic were top for the first time in 1966-67 with an average of 31,082. The best non-Old Firm average from 1961-62 onwards is 17,993 by Aberdeen in 1971-72.

[TNCASTLE]

Thank you very much! I am on to amazon right now. It is a shock and disappointment that Hobos have beaten our 28,000 figure.

[Hearts Heritage]

I have the complete record of Every Scottish Club as supplied by David Ross. I'm also working with David Speed to get the definitive set of Hearts attendances. These will be slightly more in some cases because 'ticket' holders weren't counted as they didn't pass through the turnstyles during some times. Typicallly this was about 400, Also to correct the artificially high numbers from about 2 years ago when season tickets were counted even if you didn't turn up.

 

See

 

http://www.londonhearts.com/charts/avg_l_crowdsOF.htm

 

[Charlie-Brown]

So Aberdeen's attendances have been higher than Hearts in only 18 seasons of the last 60 seasons shown on that graph - simplified as 30% Aberdeen higher / 70% HMFC higher - fairly conclusive data.

[Hearts Heritage]

So Aberdeen's attendances have been higher than Hearts in only 18 seasons of the last 60 seasons shown on that graph - simplified as 30% Aberdeen higher / 70% HMFC higher - fairly conclusive data.

 

 

[Hearts Heritage]

If you only use League crowds which removes the random nature of Cup draws IIRC Dundee were the first Non OF side to be 'top' in the early 1900s. Hearts did it 3 times in the 1920s and once in the 1930s. Third Lanark may have done it as well but I don't have my records to hand.

[EreWeG0..]

If you only use League crowds which removes the random nature of Cup draws IIRC Dundee were the first Non OF side to be 'top' in the early 1900s. Hearts did it 3 times in the 1920s and once in the 1930s. Third Lanark may have done it as well but I don't have my records to hand.

 

Is the stats not void anyway as they show that its not just the normal fans, isn't the high attendances normal fans + glory hunters..when the team do well other clubs find fans from anywhere.

 

Hearts have been the consistent 3rd behind the OF for years, and even after watching the horrible horrible BBC highlights, which had an extra bonus of 4 hearts goals against Dundee utd (still not worked out whether it was a treat for us or a dig as it was the last 4-0 league win which was a while ago) Craig Broon tipped hearts to be 3rd this year..(quickly added hibs after as afterthought to stop the Er balloons from getting disgruntled)

[Debut 4]

You must remember Easter Road had a bigger capacity and games versus bigger rivals would have driven their average up. Proof is, is that their record crowd is 65, 000 versus Hearts.

 

If you excluded games versus the OF and even the derby games(from both Hearts and Hibs)im sure it would be a diff story.

 

My Dad also said Hearts and Hibs played on the same day at home in the Scottish Cup(back in the 50`s when both sides were good) and Hearts crowd was around 6k higher.

 

PS...since WW2 i think its around 46 seasons to 16 for Hearts when it comes to average gates. Something like that.

[henry]

You must remember Easter Road had a bigger capacity and games versus bigger rivals would have driven their average up. Proof is, is that their record crowd is 65, 000 versus Hearts.

 

If you excluded games versus the OF and even the derby games(from both Hearts and Hibs)im sure it would be a diff story.

 

My Dad also said Hearts and Hibs played on the same day at home in the Scottish Cup(back in the 50`s when both sides were good) and Hearts crowd was around 6k higher.

 

PS...since WW2 i think its around 46 seasons to 16 for Hearts when it comes to average gates. Something like that.

 

 

In the 65,000 crowd there could have been easily over 30k Hearts fans. What would

be of interest would be what kind of crowds hibs got against smaller teams that season,

that would give us an indication of how many Hearts fans were at the game.

[southside1874]

In the 65,000 crowd there could have been easily over 30k Hearts fans. What would

be of interest would be what kind of crowds hibs got against smaller teams that season,

that would give us an indication of how many Hearts fans were at the game.

 

I think you get a result of folk going to watch football. Hearts and Hibs fans side by side watching a game of footy........much like a rugby crowd do. FFS the weegies have brought us down to their level.

[TNCASTLE]

This is all good stuff gentlemen. Thank you all very much. I have purchased "roar of the crowd" from Amazon and it is winging its way to Australia right now. I always knew that there was a window of opportunity around 61 for hearts to become the second biggest crowd puller behind Rangers, Unfortunately celtic overtook us probably permanently. Many thanks

[andi17]

In the 65,000 crowd there could have been easily over 30k Hearts fans. What would

be of interest would be what kind of crowds hibs got against smaller teams that season,

that would give us an indication of how many Hearts fans were at the game.

Think HMFC are part of the top three attendances at fester rd (scottish cup semi and replay 1956)being the other two. Sad the hobos are only involved in one.

[Buffalo Bill]

Geographically speaking, Hibs had the advantage of being able to build a massive double bank of terracing (that lasted about 30 years) whereas we were wedged in between a warehouse, a school and a block of flats.

 

 

[world_3]

For some reason, the crowds of everybody except the Old Firm and Dundee (15,934), who were champions, plummeted in 1961-62. We fell bt over 6,000 to 13,592. There was a severe winter around then, but I think that it was the next one.

 

Has anybody ever investigated this? Was it maybe because of declining quality of the football on offer, or was it due to other socio-economic reasons? Would be very interesting to know why it happened. Perhaps even 50 years later lessons could still be learned from it. Think the severe winter was not till 1963-4?

[jambos are go!]

Has anybody ever investigated this? Was it maybe because of declining quality of the football on offer, or was it due to other socio-economic reasons? Would be very interesting to know why it happened. Perhaps even 50 years later lessons could still be learned from it. Think the severe winter was not till 1963-4?

 

I can offer some opinions. During the late fifties and early sixties people began to have much more disposable incomes and therefore other affordable options. In our case the demise of the great team of the late fifties caused a slump in interest with fans taking up those other options. However, the most important factor IMO was that around 1962 coincides with the the reduction to a 5 day week with a huge drop in those working on Saturday mornings(including office workers). Many men went for a drink and the match straight from work . When they stopped working on Saturday Mornings they had choices and pressure to spend time with the family.

 

Incidently many used to go to both Tynecastle and Easter Road as pointed out on this board and barely believed sometimes. Again I think that was down to Saturday morning working. I remember a part time barman telling me that when he worked at the large McVities biscuit factory in Robertson Avenue that most of the men went to Tynecastle for a home game. Most were Hearts fans but fans of all persuasions went because football on a Saturday afternoon was the main show in town.

[Hearts Heritage]

<br /><br />

Think HMFC are part of the top three attendances at fester rd (scottish cup semi and replay 1956)being the other two. Sad the hobos are only involved in one. <img src='http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smilies/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

Not True the 2 1956 cup games are not 2nd and 3rd.

 

I'll post up the top 20 crowds at ER later.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[andi17]

<br /><br /><br />

 

Not True the 2 1956 cup games are not 2nd and 3rd.

 

I'll post up the top 20 crowds at ER later.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I stand corrected

[Hearts Heritage]

I stand corrected

 

I'll do the list tonight IIRC the majority of the top 20 crowds at ER invlove Hearts either in a Derby or playing Raith Rovers.

[Hearts Heritage]

Top crowds at ER. Hearts involved in 5 of the first 7 including the 2 Raith Rovers Cup games

 

1 Mon 02 Jan 1950 Hibernian 1 Heart Of Midlothian 2 L1 - 65840

2 Mon 02 Jan 1956 Hibernian 2 Heart Of Midlothian 2 L1 - 60812

3 Sat 17 Jan 1953 Hibernian 1 Rangers 1 L1 - 60500

4 Sat 24 Mar 1956 Heart of Midlothian 0 Raith Rovers 0 Scottish Cup - 58448

5 Sat 03 Nov 1951 Hibernian 1 Rangers 1 L1 - 55000

6 Wed 28 Mar 1956 Heart of Midlothian 3 Raith Rovers 0 Scottish Cup - 54233

7 Fri 01 Jan 1960 Hibernian 1 Heart Of Midlothian 5 L1 - 54000

8 Sat 31 Jan 1948 Hibernian 1 Rangers 0 L1 - 52750

9 Sat 05 Nov 1949 Hibernian 1 Rangers 0 L1 - 51500

10 Sat 19 Feb 1949 Hibernian 0 Rangers 1 L1 - 50000

10 Sat 20 Sep 1952 Hibernian 3 Heart Of Midlothian 1 L1 - 50000

12 Wed 01 Jan 1958 Hibernian 0 Heart Of Midlothian 2 L1 - 49200

13 Sat 23 Feb 1974 Hibernian 2 Celtic 4 L1 - 48554

14 Fri 01 Jan 1954 Hibernian 1 Heart Of Midlothian 2 L1 - 48000

15 Mon 20 Apr 1953 Hibernian 2 East Fife 1 L1 - 47000

XX Sat 06 Aug 1949 Edinburgh XI 2 Wolverhampton Wanderers 3 - 46077 <-- Selection of Hearts and Hibs players

16 Sat 28 Apr 1973 Hibernian 0 Celtic 3 L1 - 45443

17 Thu 01 Jan 1948 Hibernian 3 Heart Of Midlothian 1 L1 - 45000

17 Sat 17 Apr 1954 Hibernian 0 Celtic 3 L1 - 45000

19 Sat 23 Sep 1950 Hibernian 0 Heart Of Midlothian 1 L1 - 44976

20 Sat 08 Oct 1966 Hibernian 3 Celtic 5 L1 - 43526

[Hearts Heritage]

There were 4 Neutral Scottish Cup games played at Tynecastle with 40,000 plus crowds

 

1957-03-23 SF Falkirk 2 Raith Rovers 2 - 48275

1936-03-28 SF Third Lanark 3 Falkirk 1 - 47796

1951-03-31 SF Motherwell 3 Hibernian 2 - 46000

1928-03-24 SF Rangers 3 Hibernian 0 - 43129

[TNCASTLE]

Think HMFC are part of the top three attendances at fester rd (scottish cup semi and replay 1956)being the other two. Sad the hobos are only involved in one.

Dont think so. The Raith Rovers matches in '56 were 58448 and 54233 but the league crowd on 2nd Jan '56 was 60,800 so top FOUR perhaps. However someone told me a Hibs v Hun match in 50's was also 60,000 ?

[Hearts Heritage]

Dont think so. The Raith Rovers matches in '56 were 58448 and 54233 but the league crowd on 2nd Jan '56 was 60,800 so top FOUR perhaps. However someone told me a Hibs v Hun match in 50's was also 60,000 ?

 

see 3 posts above

[TNCASTLE]

There were 4 Neutral Scottish Cup games played at Tynecastle with 40,000 plus crowds

 

1957-03-23 SF Falkirk 2 Raith Rovers 2 - 48275

1936-03-28 SF Third Lanark 3 Falkirk 1 - 47796

1951-03-31 SF Motherwell 3 Hibernian 2 - 46000

1928-03-24 SF Rangers 3 Hibernian 0 - 43129

The '57 one always surprised me. A Cup SF used to be a big deal and I guess that 20-30K Hearts/Hibs fans turned up?

Somebody mentioned the early 60's bad winter. I went to easter Road to watch Hibs v QOS reserve game (first for months played) and the crowd was big, maybe 20-30K. Anyone old enough to remember?? Hearts won at Forfar on 12th Jan and next played at Celtic on 6th March, great Willie Wallace goal! Our average then was 15,200.