Munch Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8646612.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 The words, no, **** and Sherlock spring to mind. Meanwhile, the Greek domino has toppled. Portugal next, then Spain, then the UK? http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2010/apr/28/greece-financial-crisis?showallcomments=true#start-of-comments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 You see back in the day when all this funny money was being "created" and huge bonuses were being paid, I, as a run of the mill citizen, can't remember being given any dividend or bonus yet now that the brown stuff (no pun intended) has hit the fan it is average Joes like me that have to bear the brunt of this either through cuts to public services or an increase in taxation. While I am not against an increase in tax per se, as long as it is spent properly and wisely, I am against a rise in tax just to pay off the mistakes of a sector that ran wild essentially defrauding the people of not just this country but the entire World. In other words, we are being shat on from a rather large height here and being forced to p[ay for and clear up some other buggers fraud/mistakes etc Why has there not been any challenge to the system (capitalism) that actually allowed this to happen (again) and will indeed end up happening again and again and again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Sexington Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Thank **** I'm off to Australia next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Archer Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 You see back in the day when all this funny money was being "created" and huge bonuses were being paid, I, as a run of the mill citizen, can't remember being given any dividend or bonus yet now that the brown stuff (no pun intended) has hit the fan it is average Joes like me that have to bear the brunt of this either through cuts to public services or an increase in taxation. While I am not against an increase in tax per se, as long as it is spent properly and wisely, I am against a rise in tax just to pay off the mistakes of a sector that ran wild essentially defrauding the people of not just this country but the entire World. In other words, we are being shat on from a rather large height here and being forced to p[ay for and clear up some other buggers fraud/mistakes etc Why has there not been any challenge to the system (capitalism) that actually allowed this to happen (again) and will indeed end up happening again and again and again? This government and this economy became far too dependant on "the city" and allowed them to run wild. If all major companies currently situated in London left because of regulations etc what would happen to the economy. To add to Geoff's words that spring to mind i propose "**** creek" and "paddle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 This government and this economy became far too dependant on "the city" and allowed them to run wild. If all major companies currently situated in London left because of regulations etc what would happen to the economy. To add to Geoff's words that spring to mind i propose "**** creek" and "paddle" Where would they go then? Point is then that we no longer (if we ever) live in a democracy as essentially The City has too much control and sway over our lives that it matters not who is in No 10 (see Osbourne and Cameron's comments re a hung parliament and how the markets will not like it). **** them. **** them all. Let the people reclaim their birthright and let us all live in a society by the people for the people and **** these corrupt, greedy institutions that are simply robbing us financially, politically, ethically and morally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 You see back in the day when all this funny money was being "created" and huge bonuses were being paid, I, as a run of the mill citizen, can't remember being given any dividend or bonus yet now that the brown stuff (no pun intended) has hit the fan it is average Joes like me that have to bear the brunt of this either through cuts to public services or an increase in taxation. While I am not against an increase in tax per se, as long as it is spent properly and wisely, I am against a rise in tax just to pay off the mistakes of a sector that ran wild essentially defrauding the people of not just this country but the entire World. In other words, we are being shat on from a rather large height here and being forced to p[ay for and clear up some other buggers fraud/mistakes etc Why has there not been any challenge to the system (capitalism) that actually allowed this to happen (again) and will indeed end up happening again and again and again? True capitalism would have let them go bust. The problem is that their market cap became ridiculous sizes of GDP and governments assuming the debts only postponed the inevitable. Austrian economics provides the solution but for that to be acceptable to society there would have to be major transfers of material wealth and a culture shift away from living in debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 True capitalism would have let them go bust. The problem is that their market cap became ridiculous sizes of GDP and governments assuming the debts only postponed the inevitable. Austrian economics provides the solution but for that to be acceptable to society there would have to be major transfers of material wealth and a culture shift away from living in debt. Or we could try proper socialism on the road to communism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Jambo 60 Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Or we could try proper socialism on the road to communism... Right Boris i take it you mean us all wearing the same dark coloured clothes. Living in the same type of housing, no leaders or managers, all for that. No one earning more than anyone else. Would not work or can you convince me. Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Right Boris i take it you mean us all wearing the same dark coloured clothes. No. Living in the same type of housing, no leaders or managers, all for that. No. No one earning more than anyone else. No. Would not work or can you convince me. Doug. Socialism, and then communism, does not mean everyone gets the same share or somehow there is a lack of choice and that we all end up wearing the same coloured boiler suit. Far from it. As I understand it, the main maxim is From each according to his ability, to each according to his need As for choice, I would argue that socialism/communism would increase it as the people would get exactly what they want, not what is foisted upon them by capitalist ad men and women as people are brainwashed into thinking that they actually need these disposable material objects. There is also the idea that the transformation from socialism to communism will also alter the mind set of the people. As we are animals of our environment, because we live in a capitalist led and run society so many of our values and thoughts are ultimately swayed by capitalist indoctrination. Change the environment and therefore change the mind set. Socialism is about people, society. Capitalism sees people as a commodity not as individuals and is only interested in capital. Surely it would be better for all concerned if we had a system which put people first and treated them with the respect that they deserved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling Archer Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 No. No. No. Socialism, and then communism, does not mean everyone gets the same share or somehow there is a lack of choice and that we all end up wearing the same coloured boiler suit. Far from it. As I understand it, the main maxim is From each according to his ability, to each according to his need As for choice, I would argue that socialism/communism would increase it as the people would get exactly what they want, not what is foisted upon them by capitalist ad men and women as people are brainwashed into thinking that they actually need these disposable material objects. There is also the idea that the transformation from socialism to communism will also alter the mind set of the people. As we are animals of our environment, because we live in a capitalist led and run society so many of our values and thoughts are ultimately swayed by capitalist indoctrination. Change the environment and therefore change the mind set. Socialism is about people, society. Capitalism sees people as a commodity not as individuals and is only interested in capital. Surely it would be better for all concerned if we had a system which put people first and treated them with the respect that they deserved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 You betcha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Or we could try proper socialism on the road to communism... Well, China is communist, allegedly, and it's working well for them. True, human rights etc can be infringed but hey, it leads to world domination... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Well, China is communist, allegedly, and it's working well for them. True, human rights etc can be infringed but hey, it leads to world domination... ...not to mention the emancipation of the workers! I'd argue that China is actually state-capitalist. I'll find out soon enough as I am off there with work a week on Saturday. Anyone know any decent boozers in Shanghai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 ...not to mention the emancipation of the workers! I'd argue that China is actually state-capitalist. I'll find out soon enough as I am off there with work a week on Saturday. Anyone know any decent boozers in Shanghai? So have we ever had a true Commie state then Boris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 So have we ever had a true Commie state then Boris? No. We haven't. Closest would have been Russia immediately after the October Revolution, but the Bolsheviks neutered that to their own ends pretty quickly...not that the Bolshevik state was all bad, but it did sort of renage on the "All power to the Soviets" promise by installing democratic centralism. The crushing of the Kronstadt Sailors Revolt was the death of any idealism left over from October. Lenin dieing in 1923 didn't help too much either. Trotsky wasn't really the best to take the reigns (perhaps the best of a bad bunch?) but Stalin was just wrong, wrong, wrong! Anyway, bars in Shanghai? Know you of any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 No. We haven't. Closest would have been Russia immediately after the October Revolution, but the Bolsheviks neutered that to their own ends pretty quickly...not that the Bolshevik state was all bad, but it did sort of renage on the "All power to the Soviets" promise by installing democratic centralism. The crushing of the Kronstadt Sailors Revolt was the death of any idealism left over from October. Lenin dieing in 1923 didn't help too much either. Trotsky wasn't really the best to take the reigns (perhaps the best of a bad bunch?) but Stalin was just wrong, wrong, wrong! Anyway, bars in Shanghai? Know you of any? Cool. Think jonesy would be your best bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Cool. Think jonesy would be your best bet. As leader of an embryonic workers state or for knowledge on the Sino boozer scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 As leader of an embryonic workers state or for knowledge on the Sino boozer scene? Well, I think he's a teacher so he can be grouped as one of Ho Chi Minh's intellectuals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 Well, I think he's a teacher so he can be grouped as one of Ho Chi Minh's intellectuals! Hahaha Nice one Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wibble Posted April 28, 2010 Share Posted April 28, 2010 It's funny how the people who will moan most at the cuts will be the same ones who shouted down anyone who suggested that deregulation and privatisation were terrible for people. It's horrible to be proved right in this instance because I really see grim times ahead for Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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