Emigration

[Seats]

As someone who has emigrated (been in Spain for 9 years now) emigration is a subject which comes up in conversation often and is one I am particularly interested in. I believe there are varying "degrees" of emigration and would be interested in hearing JKB'ers views on this topic. As an example, I live in what could quite easily be considered "little Britain". Whilst I am in Spain, I can still get UK telly (including regional news and programmes) eat in British restuarants and shop in Marks and Spencers and Morrisons if I want. However, I also live in a foreign country with a foreign language, culture and cuisine if I want it.

 

Personally, I live halfway between the two - I make a reasonable attempt at speaking the language, enjoying the food and have Spanish mates. However, I also watch UK TV (mostly the sport) and am prone to going to the chippy for my tea when I fancy it. If I really want to, I can jump on a plane and get back to the UK for the weekend for around a hundred quid or so. Many people I know though, get by without speaking a word of Spanish and without bumping into a Spaniard at all - the UK without the weather!

 

Someone like Gorgiewave however (sorry for mentioning him mods but I'm sure he won't mind!) from what little I know of him, I suspect lives a much more "integrated" life than I do. Being much more immersed in the culture and language and ultimately psychologically further away from the UK (although still die hard jambo ).

 

What I am particularly interested in are those people who go to the States, Canada and particularly Australia. Whilst these countries are much closer culturally to the UK (and language is a big thing) they are physically further away and with time differences must be harder to keep in touch with the UK. However, someone like Geoff obviously still has strong links to the UK and keeps in touch through the internet etc.

 

My questions are as follows:

 

Is this at a price? Geoff, by spending time focusing on what is happening in the UK are you missing out on what is happening locally? Does this make your life more difficult?

 

Gorgiewave, by living a much more "Spanish" life, is there a price you pay missing out on things from home?

 

Any other expats are more than welcome to contribute (or indeed those who haven't moved an inch).

 

The reason I am asking is that my mate moved to Spain to work with me, spent 6 years here and never learnt more than "dos cervezas por favor" (literally!) made no effort whatsoever to adapt to Spanish culture in any way shape or form. He has last weekend moved to the Czech republic to live in the countryside where no-one but his girlfriend speaks English. I think it will be a complete disaster but wondered if that was just me having one particular view on the subject?

[Gorgiewave]

As someone who has emigrated (been in Spain for 9 years now) emigration is a subject which comes up in conversation often and is one I am particularly interested in. I believe there are varying "degrees" of emigration and would be interested in hearing JKB'ers views on this topic. As an example, I live in what could quite easily be considered "little Britain". Whilst I am in Spain, I can still get UK telly (including regional news and programmes) eat in British restuarants and shop in Marks and Spencers and Morrisons if I want. However, I also live in a foreign country with a foreign language, culture and cuisine if I want it.

 

Personally, I live halfway between the two - I make a reasonable attempt at speaking the language, enjoying the food and have Spanish mates. However, I also watch UK TV (mostly the sport) and am prone to going to the chippy for my tea when I fancy it. If I really want to, I can jump on a plane and get back to the UK for the weekend for around a hundred quid or so. Many people I know though, get by without speaking a word of Spanish and without bumping into a Spaniard at all - the UK without the weather!

 

Someone like Gorgiewave however (sorry for mentioning him mods but I'm sure he won't mind!) from what little I know of him, I suspect lives a much more "integrated" life than I do. Being much more immersed in the culture and language and ultimately psychologically further away from the UK (although still die hard jambo ).

 

What I am particularly interested in are those people who go to the States, Canada and particularly Australia. Whilst these countries are much closer culturally to the UK (and language is a big thing) they are physically further away and with time differences must be harder to keep in touch with the UK. However, someone like Geoff obviously still has strong links to the UK and keeps in touch through the internet etc.

 

My questions are as follows:

 

Is this at a price? Geoff, by spending time focusing on what is happening in the UK are you missing out on what is happening locally? Does this make your life more difficult?

 

Gorgiewave, by living a much more "Spanish" life, is there a price you pay missing out on things from home?

 

Any other expats are more than welcome to contribute (or indeed those who haven't moved an inch).

 

The reason I am asking is that my mate moved to Spain to work with me, spent 6 years here and never learnt more than "dos cervezas por favor" (literally!) made no effort whatsoever to adapt to Spanish culture in any way shape or form. He has last weekend moved to the Czech republic to live in the countryside where no-one but his girlfriend speaks English. I think it will be a complete disaster but wondered if that was just me having one particular view on the subject?

 

I don't mind but I have to dash out just now. An interesting subject and I'll answer fully later.

[CostaJambo]

I don't mind but I have to dash out just now. An interesting subject and I'll answer fully later.

 

The thing the missus and I miss the most is not having the family support network (i.e. babysitters) around, but at times that can be a godsend too. Have always tried to learn a bit of the lingo in each country I've lived in but never immersed myself fully I don't think.

[2NaFish]

living in glasgow is tough, even after five years. the culture is indescribably different, the food is unreal (salt and vinegar on your chips?) and even after interacting with the locals on a daily basis the language is beyond me. Its alright when they speak slowly, but when they get excited - giro day, etc - i just smile and nod.

[The Vulture]

I lived in NZ for 3 years and came back last year. For me it was a good experience and it made me realise that you have to make the best out of life whereever you live. I came home because I was homesick, I missed family, long term friends, football, culture etc. Although I miss NZ, I still feel that coming home for me was the right thing to do and feel happier now than I have ever been and more settled now too.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Wow, big question Mr Seaton!

 

I can only come at this from my own perspective but I think it's interesting having just spent 3 weeks back home in both Northern Ireland and Scotland. Do I miss 'home'? It depends. I miss the people more than anything, family and friends. Having said that, in our case it was easier in a lot of ways because the wife and I had always had a distance from the family since heading for Scotland to study at University. So it wasn't like we were seeing each other all the time anyway. Indeed, I probably see more of them on Skype now than I did when I lived in Dunfermline when you could simply pick up the phone any time as it were or jump on a plane. I miss the ability to go to Tynecastle on a Saturday afternoon. Do I miss where I used to live though? No, plain and simple.

 

In essence, the internet for us probably makes the gap feel smaller, via Skype, Facebook etc. You learn to adjust to the time differences and plan when to speak to folk. I love it at the minute when we are only 9 hours ahead but that's because the football actually kicks off at a reasonable hour.

 

Which is a nice segue onto the main reason we inhabit this forum - the first week we came out here, I experienced an Edinburgh derby watched on HW on our laptop, kicking off on a Saturday night at around 11pm. It felt surreal but then it felt like a holiday at that point anyway. However, that experience didn't put me off obviously and Saturday night/early hours of Sunday morning is my time. Everyone else in bed and no one interrupts - I hate watching games 'as live' anyway. I'd rather download the highlights (which I do - uknova.com is a Godsend and major kudos to Melbourne Jambo (Ban The Name Change) for pointing me in its direction) than watch a prerecorded game. I always said I wouldn't give up football when I came out here and it's my way of feeling part of it.

 

As for interests at home, that's natural. I've always been an 'infoholic' so I like to think I'm as fully up to speed on 'domestic' issues as I am on 'international/back home' issues. The Aussie media is very parochial though, which is understandable to a degree when you think that you mention your flights back. In the same flight time, I land in Brisbane! It also leads to shite TV standards, which means you are naturally drawn to news outlets like the BBC for a view of the world as well as the UK.

 

What else do I miss? Decent shops (mitigated by the t'internet), some foods (which we brought back) and other little differences. The big things are the easy things to deal with - it's when you walk into a supermarket and don't recognise brands that you feel lost! You learn to mitigate those though.

[graygo]

What a fantastic reply Geoff.

 

Not quite the same but I spent a year in Oz recently with my partner and although we loved our time there I don't think that we could live happily having the limited interaction with home that you have.

[BoJack Horseman]

Going to keep a close eye on this thread. Always fancied emigrating. Maybe not permanently but it's definitely something I want to do in my life. It's going to be pretty interesting to hear some people's take on the process.

[Seats]

Cheers Geoff, kind of what I was expecting you to say. I just wonder if there is a time when you either deliberately or accidentally lose interest in "back home" and become more Australian than anything else.

 

For example, my kids are now at the stage where they play with each other (occasionally) in Spanish. I can clearly envisage a day when they are demanding to watch Spanish TV so that they can talk about it with their mates. Obviously family (and Hearts) will always tie us to Scotland, but there must come a point where we belong here more than anywhere else.

 

Having just read that back, I suppose I am asking at what stage do you consider your new place to be home? This house has felt like my home for a few years now, but I think it is only now that Spain is beginning to feel like home. (for the record, since I moved here I have never referred to returning to Scotland as going "home" although I will always be Scottish).

[Boof]

We left Canada for a family holiday in 1970 back 'home' to Shetland (home for the auld eens).

 

We're still on it.

 

My biggest regret is never having made it back to Canada, though the Mrs has tentatively suggested it for our silver wedding anniversary next year.

 

So I'd say, after 40 years, I've probably integrated fairly well into the local community - I can speak the lingo, understand the locals, carry out daily tasks, drive on the wrong side of the road...

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Cheers Geoff, kind of what I was expecting you to say. I just wonder if there is a time when you either deliberately or accidentally lose interest in "back home" and become more Australian than anything else.

 

For example, my kids are now at the stage where they play with each other (occasionally) in Spanish. I can clearly envisage a day when they are demanding to watch Spanish TV so that they can talk about it with their mates. Obviously family (and Hearts) will always tie us to Scotland, but there must come a point where we belong here more than anywhere else.

 

Having just read that back, I suppose I am asking at what stage do you consider your new place to be home? This house has felt like my home for a few years now, but I think it is only now that Spain is beginning to feel like home. (for the record, since I moved here I have never referred to returning to Scotland as going "home" although I will always be Scottish).

 

I suppose the kids are a big factor in it. For example, the fact both of mine like Aussie Rules. I don't mind the game but can't really get into it, but it's such a part of Melburnian culture it's easy to see why they like it.

[wibble]

First up I'll say that I don't think I'd ever live in Scotland again. Not because I didn't like it, but because I feel that I've done that. I choose to live in Australia for myself and for my family. It is a great place to bring up kids. They have NO IDEA how lucky they are. Life is very easy here and Melbourne is truly one of the world's great cities.

 

Moving away from your birthplace is great and awful at the same time.

 

Great things often include a new place, new culture, more variety, better weather, new things to do, new things to see better job opportunities etc etc. Usually the great things about a move are fairly obvious. After a couple of years in a place you start to feel you have an appreciation for what makes that place and it's people tick. What makes them passionate about the place.

 

What happens though is that although you sometimes understand what makes people passionate about a place you can often find it difficult to fully share their passion for it. Imagine if your first Hearts game was when you were 33 and you were taken along by a mate. Chances are you would probably see it for what it really is. An average team playing average football in a below average league with little or no chance of ever being very successful. You see at 33 you no longer believe in fiaries or santa (sorry Neave ) and you tend to see things how they are.

 

I have been to many AFL games and have been a season ticket holder for 6 or 7 seasons. Truth is though, that I have never much got past the fact that half of the rules in the game are subject to varying degrees of interpretation and so it is impossible to watch the game without thinking that either you or the umpires have no clue about how the game is played. Nearly every game I have attended I have found myself yelling "C'Mon Hearts" at some point or another. You never forget your first love eh? A great game of AFL is a magnificent game to watch, but you always feel like a casual observer because you just don't have the ingrained passion for your team because you didn't start supporting them in your formative years.

 

I watch the local fitba' here too, but the standard is low because all the teams operate under a salary cap. The facilities are amazing, but when Grant Brebner is a star, you know that it's not as good as it could be.

 

Another downside to living abroad is the friendships. You tend to make your die-hard mates between high school and through into your twenties. They share many common experiences and sometimes a great night out will revolve around discussing some trivial nonsense from your common past. WHen you move countries the nostalgia changes and you tend to find yourself hearing people reminisce about the Happy Little Vegemites rather than Tony the Tiger and The Hunny Monster. Sometimes little moments like that make you feel like a complete foreigner.

 

On an upside I think Scots tend to like to hold each other back and if a fellow Scot decides to better himself or make changes he will be dragged back to his old ways by resentful mates. A change of countries means that you can re-invent yourself in a way and do things a new way without anyone telling you that your "not the same" or "no fun anymore". Going out on the town without the fear of bumping into an awkward ex girlfriend or former acquaintance is a good feeling sometimes.

 

Being in a city, as big as Melbourne is, offers a huge choice of entertainment and would definitely make Edinburgh seem a bit small-time now IMO. The quality of the food here is world beating too and I am seriously fond of the range and quality of the food and coffee in this city.

 

There is nothing I miss other than family, friends and football. I keep in touch with family through Skype mostly and having been away for over 10 yrs I tend not to keep in regular touch with friends, though catch up in a flash on infrequent visits back.

 

If I could live my life over I would still make the decision to move here, and I wouldn't choose to move back to Scotland. I do, however, understand in some ways why some people might come here and decide 3 or 4 years later that they were heading "home".

 

There's a danger, I suppose, in moving away from Scotland because you may well start to see Scotland and the Scots in a very slightly different light and find that you no longer feel 100% Scottish but, at the same time, you also feel like a foreigner in the country you moved to. I am sure that if I was to become disillusioned with Australia that I would become one of those people. Seeing your country of birth with a bit more wide world perspective can never be a bad thing IMO. One thing that hampers the USA is the lack of overseas travel undertaken by it's citizens. It is truly an education to see yourself as others see you.

 

 

[J.T.F.Robertson]

I lived in NZ for 3 years and came back last year. For me it was a good experience and it made me realise that you have to make the best out of life whereever you live. I came home because I was homesick, I missed family, long term friends, football, culture etc. Although I miss NZ, I still feel that coming home for me was the right thing to do and feel happier now than I have ever been and more settled now too.

 

 

It might be seem an obvious statement, but this registered with me.

I'd have to say I haven't. I first came here in '71 and have never truly "settled", although, fwiw, I'm the first to admit it has little to do with being in Edinburgh or Calgary and pretty much everything to do with what's gone on in my heid.

I'm certainly not "homesick" anymore, but there's still a yearning to be there, which I think has more to do with a "running away" mentality than a desire to be with "ma ain folk".

 

As often as I've been home though, I still love the anticipation of a trip back.

[Gorgiewave]

I have been in Spain for three years, two-and-a-half in Madrid.

 

I should say at the start that I also lived for a summer in Marbella where Seats is and I think it would have been more difficult to "integrate" there. I worked in a restaurant in which the owners were English, had been in Spain for twenty years and barely knew a word of Spanish. I assume, therefore, that they were not married to Spanish women, or they were lucky to find ones willing to speak a foreign language in their own country.

 

I now live in Madrid and am currently doing an "oposici?n", which is a civil service exam. Mine is the Spanish equivalent of the Fast Stream and, if I passed, would be my ticket to stay in Spain permanently with a good, secure job. But the exams are difficult, the average time to pass is three years so nothing is guaranteed.

 

Before I came to Spain I lived with a Spanish couple in Edinburgh who were both going on to jobs with languages so they were in Scotland to perfect their English and to have something like a working holiday before they got down to "serious" work. But then Fran dumped Anabel and Anabel went back to Spain the next day crying her eyes out. The lesson I took from this was that, even when they were not planning to stay permanently in Scotland, "real life" went on. I certainly came to Spain with that in mind. Since being here I have been dumped by a girl with whom I really wanted to stay and lost a job because of the recession, so "real life" has gone on and I've not the insulation or security that might make me think I was on holiday, and therefore "psycholigically" in Scotland.

 

I live with a Spaniard, a Columbian and a Russian and of the three people who I could really call friends here one is Spanish, one American and one Romanian, though the two foreigners have been here a lot longer than me.

 

I read Bob Sharp (sorry Mods, though I'm sure our "foreign-based" Administrator will understand ) say the other day that he liked Edinburgh, but that he had found the life he really wanted in Canada. I can't say that about Spain, yet. I would need to pass this exam and one day marry a madrile?a and have children. Then, I would feel like I really had a "stake" in Spain. The other thing is that I could cut and run at any time. I'm inferring from Seats's avatar that he is a father and therefore that he is married or has a long-term girlfriend (I bet she ate the jam?n ib?rico de pata negra at Christmas, even if she did tut . "A bit of ham") so he has more "invested" in Spain. At 27 I could go back to Scotland and still being anew at a reasonably young age. I don't know what age Seats is or if he could do that. If it's a case of child in school, secure job, Spanish wife, mortgage, that's an awful lot of disruption to change it and in that sense, his links to Spain are much stronger than mine.

 

(Incidentally, the M?laga-Marbella conurbation is the 13th city in the world according to number of British residents, bigger than Bradford).

 

On the other hand, there are relatively very few Brits or English speakers in Madrid. The commonest job is English teacher and there is something of a ghetto of them, with their own pubs and social groups. I have deliberately avoided them, partly because I am confident in my Spanish and partly because of a non-urgent desire to "integrate", or certainly not to miss out on most of what the place has to offer and not be able to speak to 95% of the population. I only know one English teacher now, the American. I am also proud to speak Spanish, which I speak well and can read as well as English, especially since I began aged 24 and have have taught myself almost all of it. It has opened one or two Spanish things to me, which will now always remain with me: Eduardo Mendoza's writing, for example, or El Pa?s, which is my favourite newspaper and the best one I know, better even than the New York Times.

 

So, I agree that there are degrees of integration and to fully integrate might be impossible, however much one tries, and will certainly take several years. If, in ten years, for example, I can say: "Here I am with my civil service job, Spanish wife and Spanish children with Scottish surname, I have found the life I want", then I'll be fully integrated.

 

I have not taken up a team in Spain, nominally el Atl?tico de Madrid, partly because they have the same sense of romantic failure about them as Hearts used to have, but more because Real Madrid are as arrogant as Rangers and give me the grew. I am grateful to Seats for recognising that I'm a die hard yet, despite what some illogical people on this board think. My teams will always be Hearts, followed at a distance by Armadale Thistle, followed by nobody.

 

I miss: Hearts and being among Hearts supporters (I am not on JKB for the intellectual stimulation or Acey's betting tips, that's for sure), steak pie, dark evenings, cool summers, franly quaint Edinburgh buildings and one or two people. But going my Bob Sharp's criterion, I wasn't "integrated" in Scotland either and probably not fully integrated into the world.

 

Pues ya est?. ?Qu? quer?is que os diga?

[The Vulture]

It is always interesting to hear other peoples stories about going abroad to live. Gorgiewave, whatever happens, you'll be a better person for it and hope it all works out for you in Madrid. If a decent job opportunity came out in another part of Spain would you take it or stay in the capital? Reason i ask is that when i was in NZ, I was living in Wellington and loving it. I was offerred a job in Christchurch which I had to take for the visa, although the job was good, Christchurch the city wasn't my cup of tea at all and also one of the main reasons I came home. as I was living somewhere I didn't feel particularly settled.

 

I would say to anybody if you are tempted to go abroad and live, go for it, it can be hard at times but you can only take positives out of it. If you don't like it you can always return to the rat-race you left instead of living in another one.

[Gorgiewave]

It is always interesting to hear other peoples stories about going abroad to live. Gorgiewave, whatever happens, you'll be a better person for it and hope it all works out for you in Madrid. If a decent job opportunity came out in another part of Spain would you take it or stay in the capital? Reason i ask is that when i was in NZ, I was living in Wellington and loving it. I was offerred a job in Christchurch which I had to take for the visa, although the job was good, Christchurch the city wasn't my cup of tea at all and also one of the main reasons I came home. as I was living somewhere I didn't feel particularly settled.

 

I would say to anybody if you are tempted to go abroad and live, go for it, it can be hard at times but you can only take positives out of it. If you don't like it you can always return to the rat-race you left instead of living in another one.

 

 

Thanks very much.

I don't think I would move, no. It is probably not rational, but the idea of living in, say, Seville or Valencia, never mind Ciudad Rodrigo or Getxo, sounds too much like "backwater", despite being much bigger than Edinburgh. I have more opportunites in Madrid and probably would have fewer in another place, even from the strong position of already being in a good job.

[Gorgiewave]

First up I'll say that I don't think I'd ever live in Scotland again. Not because I didn't like it, but because I feel that I've done that. I choose to live in Australia for myself and for my family. It is a great place to bring up kids. They have NO IDEA how lucky they are. Life is very easy here and Melbourne is truly one of the world's great cities.

 

Moving away from your birthplace is great and awful at the same time.

 

Great things often include a new place, new culture, more variety, better weather, new things to do, new things to see better job opportunities etc etc. Usually the great things about a move are fairly obvious. After a couple of years in a place you start to feel you have an appreciation for what makes that place and it's people tick. What makes them passionate about the place.

 

What happens though is that although you sometimes understand what makes people passionate about a place you can often find it difficult to fully share their passion for it. Imagine if your first Hearts game was when you were 33 and you were taken along by a mate. Chances are you would probably see it for what it really is. An average team playing average football in a below average league with little or no chance of ever being very successful. You see at 33 you no longer believe in fiaries or santa (sorry Neave ) and you tend to see things how they are.

 

I have been to many AFL games and have been a season ticket holder for 6 or 7 seasons. Truth is though, that I have never much got past the fact that half of the rules in the game are subject to varying degrees of interpretation and so it is impossible to watch the game without thinking that either you or the umpires have no clue about how the game is played. Nearly every game I have attended I have found myself yelling "C'Mon Hearts" at some point or another. You never forget your first love eh? A great game of AFL is a magnificent game to watch, but you always feel like a casual observer because you just don't have the ingrained passion for your team because you didn't start supporting them in your formative years.

 

I watch the local fitba' here too, but the standard is low because all the teams operate under a salary cap. The facilities are amazing, but when Grant Brebner is a star, you know that it's not as good as it could be.

 

Another downside to living abroad is the friendships. You tend to make your die-hard mates between high school and through into your twenties. They share many common experiences and sometimes a great night out will revolve around discussing some trivial nonsense from your common past. WHen you move countries the nostalgia changes and you tend to find yourself hearing people reminisce about the Happy Little Vegemites rather than Tony the Tiger and The Hunny Monster. Sometimes little moments like that make you feel like a complete foreigner.

On an upside I think Scots tend to like to hold each other back and if a fellow Scot decides to better himself or make changes he will be dragged back to his old ways by resentful mates. A change of countries means that you can re-invent yourself in a way and do things a new way without anyone telling you that your "not the same" or "no fun anymore". Going out on the town without the fear of bumping into an awkward ex girlfriend or former acquaintance is a good feeling sometimes.

 

Being in a city, as big as Melbourne is, offers a huge choice of entertainment and would definitely make Edinburgh seem a bit small-time now IMO. The quality of the food here is world beating too and I am seriously fond of the range and quality of the food and coffee in this city.

 

There is nothing I miss other than family, friends and football. I keep in touch with family through Skype mostly and having been away for over 10 yrs I tend not to keep in regular touch with friends, though catch up in a flash on infrequent visits back.

 

If I could live my life over I would still make the decision to move here, and I wouldn't choose to move back to Scotland. I do, however, understand in some ways why some people might come here and decide 3 or 4 years later that they were heading "home".

 

There's a danger, I suppose, in moving away from Scotland because you may well start to see Scotland and the Scots in a very slightly different light and find that you no longer feel 100% Scottish but, at the same time, you also feel like a foreigner in the country you moved to. I am sure that if I was to become disillusioned with Australia that I would become one of those people. Seeing your country of birth with a bit more wide world perspective can never be a bad thing IMO. One thing that hampers the USA is the lack of overseas travel undertaken by it's citizens. It is truly an education to see yourself as others see you.

 

 

 

A good point (highlighted). You'll struggle to find a kettle in a Spanish house; dinner at 10pm, everything shut from 1400-1600. I have been lucky to teach some Spanish children English so I think I've absorbed a little about Spanish childhoods. But while the 1980s we when I was a wee boy, I have little clue about 80s Spanish cultura. La Movida Madrile?a, though, I'll get there.

 

This came up when I was invited for Hogmanay dinner with a Spanish family and everybody was impressed that I spoke Spanish, very impressed when I knew Spanish for locust, and impressed that I was doing a civil service exam. Then a rundown of great moments and songs from previous Hogmanay shows in Spain came on and everybody joined in and laughed at the 70s fashion, etc., while I didn't recognise a single thing.

[Gorgiewave]

A question for the emigrants: do any of you feel guilty about moving abroad? If so, about what specifically?

[J.T.F.Robertson]

A question for the emigrants: do any of you feel guilty about moving abroad? If so, about what specifically?

 

Nothing to feel guilty about, in fact, back home owes me a huge debt of gratitude.

[Rods]

Lived in Luxembourg for two years very similar expereince never spoke a word of french and did not need to.

 

A lot of expats out there had sky in my flat etc a lot of good times

 

Sometimes wish I hadni came hame!

[Seats]

Cheers Gorgiwave, interesting stuff!

 

I am 35 and moved to Spain for a job when I was 27. My wife came with me (no comment) and both my children were born in Spain. They have British passports and are considered British, but the truth is they are and will be Spanish. They go to Spanish schools (many expat kids here go to English schools) and are doing brilliantly. They are only 4 and two (yes, you start school young here!) so there would be no problem in moving them back if we wanted, but we have no desire to do so. This isn't a thread about me feeling homesick, just wondered what other views were (and am delighted at some of the replies).

 

In answer to do I feel guilty? - every now and then I feel guilty about leaving my family behind. It was my decision to move away but they pay the price for me and their Grandkids or nieces and nephews living abroad.

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

A question for the emigrants: do any of you feel guilty about moving abroad? If so, about what specifically?

 

 

Not really.

[oh hibees are gay]

I,ve been in Melbourne for 3 years and love it,,my guilt would kick-in if either of my folks were to become ill,then i would feel it my duty to be with them,,otherwise No.

[Heaven98]

As someone who has emigrated (been in Spain for 9 years now) emigration is a subject which comes up in conversation often and is one I am particularly interested in. I believe there are varying "degrees" of emigration and would be interested in hearing JKB'ers views on this topic. As an example, I live in what could quite easily be considered "little Britain". Whilst I am in Spain, I can still get UK telly (including regional news and programmes) eat in British restuarants and shop in Marks and Spencers and Morrisons if I want. However, I also live in a foreign country with a foreign language, culture and cuisine if I want it.

 

Personally, I live halfway between the two - I make a reasonable attempt at speaking the language, enjoying the food and have Spanish mates. However, I also watch UK TV (mostly the sport) and am prone to going to the chippy for my tea when I fancy it. If I really want to, I can jump on a plane and get back to the UK for the weekend for around a hundred quid or so. Many people I know though, get by without speaking a word of Spanish and without bumping into a Spaniard at all - the UK without the weather!

 

Someone like Gorgiewave however (sorry for mentioning him mods but I'm sure he won't mind!) from what little I know of him, I suspect lives a much more "integrated" life than I do. Being much more immersed in the culture and language and ultimately psychologically further away from the UK (although still die hard jambo ).

 

What I am particularly interested in are those people who go to the States, Canada and particularly Australia. Whilst these countries are much closer culturally to the UK (and language is a big thing) they are physically further away and with time differences must be harder to keep in touch with the UK. However, someone like Geoff obviously still has strong links to the UK and keeps in touch through the internet etc.

 

My questions are as follows:

 

Is this at a price? Geoff, by spending time focusing on what is happening in the UK are you missing out on what is happening locally? Does this make your life more difficult?

 

Gorgiewave, by living a much more "Spanish" life, is there a price you pay missing out on things from home?

 

Any other expats are more than welcome to contribute (or indeed those who haven't moved an inch).

 

The reason I am asking is that my mate moved to Spain to work with me, spent 6 years here and never learnt more than "dos cervezas por favor" (literally!) made no effort whatsoever to adapt to Spanish culture in any way shape or form. He has last weekend moved to the Czech republic to live in the countryside where no-one but his girlfriend speaks English. I think it will be a complete disaster but wondered if that was just me having one particular view on the subject?

 

An excellent post. I don't know where to start, really. Would it be OK if I just got back in dribs and drabs over the next few days?

 

David

[Peebo]

I haven't exactly emigrated, but moved to the US about eight months ago. I miss the family, friends and the Hearts massively, but the internet, telephones and reasonably cheap flights help alleviate that.

 

Other than that, can't say I really miss anything (apart from walking as a mode of transport...), and find it hard to imagine moving back any time soon.

[Seats]

An excellent post. I don't know where to start, really. Would it be OK if I just got back in dribs and drabs over the next few days?

 

David

 

 

There are no rules David, feel free to contribute as and when you see fit

[Sharpie]

No guilt whatsoever. Always when the parents were alive kept enough money to go back if something happened. Used it to return when my mother was terminally ill, was in time to see her and make funeral arrangements. Later when my father admitted he could no longer look after himself, went back brought him to Canada and he stayed with us for two years until he got his wish

and joined my mother.

 

After his cremation I brought his ashes back and he is now in various locations around the high road at the park and Hunters Bog his favorite spots. To not have acted would have caused me severe guilt, the situations that did arise were the main causes of trepidation and some stress in the early days.

 

 

As far as emigration as a whole, no doubt the best and most difficult decision I ever made. I have the best of both worlds, Scottish born, and now a citizen/resident of a great Country, you cannae beat it.

[BoJack Horseman]

The real question is lads...

 

How much ###### does your Scottish accent get you?

[Seats]

The real question is lads...

 

How much ###### does your Scottish accent get you?

 

 

The accent - meh The kilt -

[Peebo]

The real question is lads...

 

How much ###### does your Scottish accent get you?

 

It's a good icebreaker, put it that way.

[BoJack Horseman]

The accent - meh The kilt -

 

Hmm I guess the accent is really for English speaking countries. I'm thinking more USA/Canada.

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

I moved to the States 3 1/2 years ago, first off it was a secondment to Manhattan and then things took off and i was asked to move to Minneapolis (where the corp headquarters are) and myself and the wife sold our house in Perthshire and moved lock stock and barrel to here. Minnesota is probably not one of the first places that comes to mind when moving to the states but it's actually a really good place to live. I should also mention that the US had never been one of the countries we even considered moving to if given the chance.

 

What do we miss? Now we have a baby (13 months) and as someone else mentioned, the family support network is really missed, as is the fact that they are seeing him grow up via Skype. The grandparents come out twice a year to see us and we come home twice a year so thats not too bad. However, my mum is getting on as are the missus parents so that might become more difficult for them, we also have a second on the way so traveling with 2 under 2 will be slightly harder - mind you, our son has been on 14 flights already so he is used to it.

 

Aside from family and friends, as strange as it may sound, i miss the Scottish scenery, we used to jump in the car on a Friday after work and within a couple of hours we were somewhere in the highlands which was tremendous. I also miss newspapers - not so much the content - but the fact that on a sunday i would spend the first couple of hours of the day in the kitchen with the SOS or Sunday Herald in front of me - reading them online just isn't the same.

 

Food is another thing, as much as we laugh at Americans for their size etc, they dont have square sausage, proper bacon, irn bru, pies, bridies, sausage rolls, chippies or kebabs....

 

TV wise, we watch BBC America and the 9pm news on that is one of the best news programs around, Matt Frei gently takes the piss out of the world while keeping us up to date on what is happening outside of our State - local news is awful, truly awful!

 

Do we feel guilty? Not at all - only when it comes to family missing out on our wee one growing up and missing out on nieces and nephews growing up, but i really don't want to come back. I read BBC etc every day and the thought of living back in the UK depresses me.

[Peebo]

I moved to the States 3 1/2 years ago, first off it was a secondment to Manhattan and then things took off and i was asked to move to Minneapolis (where the corp headquarters are) and myself and the wife sold our house in Perthshire and moved lock stock and barrel to here. Minnesota is probably not one of the first places that comes to mind when moving to the states but it's actually a really good place to live. I should also mention that the US had never been one of the countries we even considered moving to if given the chance.

 

What do we miss? Now we have a baby (13 months) and as someone else mentioned, the family support network is really missed, as is the fact that they are seeing him grow up via Skype. The grandparents come out twice a year to see us and we come home twice a year so thats not too bad. However, my mum is getting on as are the missus parents so that might become more difficult for them, we also have a second on the way so traveling with 2 under 2 will be slightly harder - mind you, our son has been on 14 flights already so he is used to it.

 

Aside from family and friends, as strange as it may sound, i miss the Scottish scenery, we used to jump in the car on a Friday after work and within a couple of hours we were somewhere in the highlands which was tremendous. I also miss newspapers - not so much the content - but the fact that on a sunday i would spend the first couple of hours of the day in the kitchen with the SOS or Sunday Herald in front of me - reading them online just isn't the same.

 

Food is another thing, as much as we laugh at Americans for their size etc, they dont have square sausage, proper bacon, irn bru, pies, bridies, sausage rolls, chippies or kebabs....

 

TV wise, we watch BBC America and the 9pm news on that is one of the best news programs around, Matt Frei gently takes the piss out of the world while keeping us up to date on what is happening outside of our State - local news is awful, truly awful!

 

Do we feel guilty? Not at all - only when it comes to family missing out on our wee one growing up and missing out on nieces and nephews growing up, but i really don't want to come back. I read BBC etc every day and the thought of living back in the UK depresses me.

 

Would agree with most of that. Particularly the bacon - it is f'ing awful here, which I find amazing, given the general quality of food.

[mac]

 

Would agree with most of that. Particularly the bacon - it is f'ing awful here, which I find amazing, given the general quality of food.

[mac]

Where's my effing post went? Spent ages on it FFS!

[CavySlaveJambo]

Where's my effing post went? Spent ages on it FFS!

 

the gremlins ate it.

[Cade]

I love how people in the UK object to Poles, Chinese, Pakistanis, Blacks et al coming over here and setting up "ghettos" where they keep themselves to themselves, refuse to speak the local lingo and integrate into the local community.

We bang on about it constantly at the same time as planning to retire abroad and live in a sheltered ex-pat "colony"

 

We are such terrible hypocrites.

[Peebo]

I love how people in the UK object to Poles, Chinese, Pakistanis, Blacks et al coming over here and setting up "ghettos" where they keep themselves to themselves, refuse to speak the local lingo and integrate into the local community.

We bang on about it constantly at the same time as planning to retire abroad and live in a sheltered ex-pat "colony"

 

We are such terrible hypocrites.

 

 

Or alternatively, perhaps there are very few people actually fit into the category of people you are talking about.

[Jamboinparis]

I've had two experiences living abroad.

 

The first was living in Paris for a year as part of my university degree 2 years ago. As much as I loved my time there, I must admit I didn't do a great job of integrating. As I studied business, not languages, all my courses we're in English and the classes were made up of other European students who studied English and not French. So my social group was a really interesting mix up of different cultures...except the French! I did enjoy living a semi Parisian lifestyle, but my French was never very good so I guess I was really just playing at it. I lived down the road from the famous Auld Alliance pub, and used to go in when Hearts games were on TV. I became friends with the legendry Stevie Graham who owned the pub (massive Jambo) who later in the year gave me a job there. So I ended up spending a my weekends working in an expat bar watching Sky Sports. The bar did attract a lot French people to watch football and rugby and to enjoy the 100+ single malts, however the locals were nearly all UK expats.

 

Currently living in Wellington NZ, but coming to the end of my time here. I have made much more of an effort to get into the local culture, and most of my social circle are Kiwis. Its probably the language, but here I have gotten more into the politics and history of NZ than I did in France. I've found the Maori culture fascinating. Unfortunately coming to the end of my time here as my visa runs out, but it has been a great experience. Also if you want to get fit - this is the place to come!

 

I am now looking for one more place to go (hopefully Taiwan) before I settle back in the UK. Because despite loving my time abroad, home is home - and thats where I want to be. I guess for some people they are looking for somewhere better to live, but for me its just been about experiencing something different while I have the chance and with few responsibilities.

[jambobroch]

This is fascinating. I've always had a bit of a (pipe) dream to go abroad for a while. New York has always appealed to me. I have literally no language skills (a standard grade in German), but I would like to think if I went somewhere non-English speaking I would at least try.

It does me good to know that there are jambos all over the shop, who managed to pry themselves away from the lure of the smell from the North British, while I study away in Edinburgh. It takes some of the pressure off, the feeling like moving away from Scotland would be a final step or something. At the end of the day, I'm not even 21 yet, and if I moved anywhere and hated it, I could always move back to the devil I know. That makes me happy. Cheers guys.

[Heaven98]

I moved to the States 3 1/2 years ago, first off it was a secondment to Manhattan and then things took off and i was asked to move to Minneapolis (where the corp headquarters are) and myself and the wife sold our house in Perthshire and moved lock stock and barrel to here. Minnesota is probably not one of the first places that comes to mind when moving to the states but it's actually a really good place to live. I should also mention that the US had never been one of the countries we even considered moving to if given the chance.

 

What do we miss? Now we have a baby (13 months) and as someone else mentioned, the family support network is really missed, as is the fact that they are seeing him grow up via Skype. The grandparents come out twice a year to see us and we come home twice a year so thats not too bad. However, my mum is getting on as are the missus parents so that might become more difficult for them, we also have a second on the way so traveling with 2 under 2 will be slightly harder - mind you, our son has been on 14 flights already so he is used to it.

 

Aside from family and friends, as strange as it may sound, i miss the Scottish scenery, we used to jump in the car on a Friday after work and within a couple of hours we were somewhere in the highlands which was tremendous. I also miss newspapers - not so much the content - but the fact that on a sunday i would spend the first couple of hours of the day in the kitchen with the SOS or Sunday Herald in front of me - reading them online just isn't the same.

 

Food is another thing, as much as we laugh at Americans for their size etc, they dont have square sausage, proper bacon, irn bru, pies, bridies, sausage rolls, chippies or kebabs....

 

TV wise, we watch BBC America and the 9pm news on that is one of the best news programs around, Matt Frei gently takes the piss out of the world while keeping us up to date on what is happening outside of our State - local news is awful, truly awful!

 

Do we feel guilty? Not at all - only when it comes to family missing out on our wee one growing up and missing out on nieces and nephews growing up, but i really don't want to come back. I read BBC etc every day and the thought of living back in the UK depresses me.

 

A lot of this applies to me, except I've been in LA for nearly ten years now so much of what you miss on the creature comfort side will fade in time. On the bacon front, I just couldn't imagine ever getting to grips with that scrawny streaky American stuff but now I can't imagine much different. Tesco have opened a chain up called Fresh and Easy out here - I bought some of their Danish bacon, you know the good back stuff. The kids hated it and I found myself being surprisingly underwhelmed by the experience!

 

We've never consciously thought that we actually live here. In all our time, we've always looked on it as an extended stay. But then you realize that life starts catching up with you. The boys are thoroughly Californianized and one of them is an American. It would be difficult to move them back.

 

Things I miss most are the rituals - Saturday pub for breakfast before football, BBC tele, newspapers, Irn Bru and Baked Beans, family lunches, etc. But then you realize that there isn't much football on a Saturday and I still meet up with people to watch it in a oub, BBC America is just fine, there'splenty of British shops that sell everything from Birds custard to Bisto at a wee bit of a premium, all the newspapers are printed out here now and available same day, and most family events dissolved into bickering and arguments anyway!

 

So we're left with a far better standard of living, a beautiful beautiful state where we're twenty minutes from the the beaches, an hour from ski resorts and two hours from the desert - I've just got back from the Coachella Music Festival - and sun approximately 300 days of the year. The food and restaurants in LA are world class, we've got the Lakers and USC football - alright that's balanced by the Dodgers and the Kings - and we're surrounded by beautiful scenery. You drive along Mulholland to take you down to Laurel Canyon and across into town on an early morning and it's simply breathtaking.

 

I'm privileged to be here. I don't know whether I'll be here in six months time even, but I wouldn't have swapped it for the world. Fecking marvellous.

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

[Jamboinparis]

This is fascinating. I've always had a bit of a (pipe) dream to go abroad for a while. New York has always appealed to me. I have literally no language skills (a standard grade in German), but I would like to think if I went somewhere non-English speaking I would at least try.

It does me good to know that there are jambos all over the shop, who managed to pry themselves away from the lure of the smell from the North British, while I study away in Edinburgh. It takes some of the pressure off, the feeling like moving away from Scotland would be a final step or something. At the end of the day, I'm not even 21 yet, and if I moved anywhere and hated it, I could always move back to the devil I know. That makes me happy. Cheers guys.

 

Definitely mate - I'm only 23 next month. Not sure what year you are in at university, but check out your options for studying abroad/Erasmus. The chance is usually given to 3rd year students. Also check out Bunac for opportunities for working abroad after you graduate or in the long summers. I came out to Wellington after graduating last May. There were hardly any jobs at home, so I reckoned that working on the other side of the world would be more fun and interesting than a crap job at home - and it has been!

[Captain Sausage]

I have lived abroad for around half of my life. (Currently 20 years old)

 

I spent almost all of my high school years in a foreign country. However, as I was following my family, when we lived in Germany and China, we didn't integrate particularly into the actual society. With the Germans, there wasn't too much problem, and as at my international school we picked up German, we would use it at the shops and on the football pitch. We then moved to Houston, TX and integrated far more. The lack of a language barrier could not be underestimated in its ability to help someone integrate into a foreign society.

 

Immediately we joined an American public school, joined the football team and american football team, and were just considered regular kids there. We lived as Americans lived. However, when we moved to China, things changed drastically. We were housed in compounds guarded 24 hours a day by armed security forces, and it was all foreign people within the compounds. So we ended up in a weird international mix, where everyone spoke English. I didn't take a single Chinese lesson, opting instead to continue learning French as my British International School did GCSE's. We came back to Scotland for a year where I took my standard grades, then headed back to Houston.

 

This time however we moved to the British School, which unsurprisingly swept us up in a mini Britain. It wasn't as enjoyable in that situation as the first time round where we had completely integrated.

 

We didn't really miss family as the immediate family was all together, and we got home once a year during summer, so things were just...normal.

 

However now I am on exchange in Dallas, TX. And for the most part, I am completely integrated into society. I hang out only with Americans, play football, gym, work out with Americans. All the bars I go to (surely not a fake ID ) I hang out with Americans. The only thing I can say against that was the Glaswegian girlfriend I had until a few weeks ago. Since then, I have further integrated than I had before. I am completely dissolved in all things American, and I love it here. However, I'm back home in 4 weeks for summer placement.

 

The main things I would say are this:

 

1) If you are going to go abroad, do it for yourself. All of the international students here are running away from something at home. I guess whatever works, but I have seen of them terribly homesick, because they did it somewhat rashly. I knew I wanted to be here, I knew I wanted to just have some time alone. Obviously things not working out with the Scottish girl (Celtic supporter *dirty*) have put somewhat of a downer on my final time here, but other than her, I don't see anything British here. There is a double decker chippy which wanders around campus, but I avoid it as it uses the Union Flag to describe 'English' Fish & Chips. Which taste like ass by the way!

 

2) Experience the culture! I joined a fraternity, which was a great decision. It didn't work out, but it gave me a real insight into 'Greek' life, and then this semester I witnessed far more of the more artsy side of American culture. I drink American drinks (Shiner Bock is a must for anyone travelling to Texas, while Natty and Keystone are to be avoided like the plague, unless playing beerpong). I now use my accent to compete with the stereotypical douchebag frat guys for girls. I'm a decent looking guy, but I can literally get any girl I choose, by opening my mouth. It is an absolute treat and probably the thing I am most going to miss when I come home.

 

3) Explore. Me and my friend took Thanksgiving week to just get in the car, spin a pencil, and see where we were going. We ended up seeing a whole chunk of Texas, and ended up in Roswell, NM! Home of area 51! It was a great week and the shear spontaneousness of the whole thing was just insane! I even did the 'Maradona 7' on a Texas state highway (video proof if required )

 

4) Have sex with a latina. Enough said.

 

5) Meet friends and spend time with their families. It really gave me an insight into how people here were, and the culture changes. It also helped me to educate a few people on Scottish culture.

 

I'd say that is the most important things. Other ex-pats please feel free to add to that list!

 

Johnnie

[Swanyl]

 

 

Is this at a price? Geoff, by spending time focusing on what is happening in the UK are you missing out on what is happening locally? Does this make your life more difficult? Gorgiewave, by living a much more "Spanish" life, is there a price you pay missing out on things from home?

I moved out to Argentina 2 years ago now and haven't looked back. Getting married in may to a "local" (she's actually Uruguayan but has lived in Argentina most her life) and can't wait!

I miss my family back home, and i'm missing out on my nieces growing up but as others have said, Skype, facebook and email are all very handy in keeping in touch with whats going on back home.

 

I find I spend quite a bit of time now watching the local news, especially cronica tv which is probably the equivalent of what would happen if the daily star started a tv channel! One of the funniest episodes was this.

http://www.monkeyreview.co.uk/2009/09/27/what-is-seen-cannot-be-unseen-meet-zulma-lobato/

i think it was their birthday show or something so they went all out and got an old tranny, a pony, a mummy "wrestler", 2 dogs, a hobo, a Latin singer impersonator and a few other randoms for a crazy show!

 

I haven't started supporting a team here, although i have seen river play a couple of times now. The local teams would probably be San Lorenzo, Boca, Ferro or Hurrican.... The mrs and her brother support Independiente but they're quite a distance away so i haven't had the opportunity to go watch a match.

Interestingly enough the president decreed that all football matches be on free terrestrial tv. Before they were all on pay per view/ premium channels. Now you get to watch all the matches, but you are forced to watch a huge number of "government" adverts in-between matches.

 

My Spanish isn't the best yet but I'm learning slowly and will be fluent eventually.

I like Buenos Aires but much prefer Montevideo in Uruguay, unfortunately its a much smaller city so finding work would be hard.

 

I get worried by the talk of the crappy islands down here that everyone wants a piece of just now.

Mainly because Argentina are desperate for money and their president is very unpopular at the moment, so in typical fashion she stirs up the locals. She isn't diverting much away from the troubles though as inflation and other things are really affecting the locals at the moment.

 

I tend to avoid the local ex-pats, not deliberately but mostly because they tend to live in the more expensive areas of the city, and with the high inflation that's currently gripping Argentina, I just couldn't afford to regularly head out to the bars there.

 

I miss all the usual scottish things.... Irn-bru, Haggis, Fish supper, Mates, Decent pubs which aren't full of backpackers who have "done" countries after spending a week there.

although i have found some decent places to get whisky at reasonable prices.

I wish i could find Ardbeg and Bowmore... but i can get a bottle of Black Bottle for about a tenner, and Glenfiddich, Jura, Glenmorangie and a few others are available.

[stevie HMFC]

Very interesting thread, I'm only twenty one but have wanted to move abroad for a long time, probably to Australia. My question to the guys who have done it is, did you just get up and go? Obviously it takes a fair bit planning but I what I mean is, do you need a job or a career lined up in advance or did you just head across and take your chances? I'm asking this to the guys who went to Eurpoe as well, as i'd love to go somewhere and learn a new language.

 

Cheers

[Gorgiewave]

Very interesting thread, I'm only twenty one but have wanted to move abroad for a long time, probably to Australia. My question to the guys who have done it is, did you just get up and go? Obviously it takes a fair bit planning but I what I mean is, do you need a job or a career lined up in advance or did you just head across and take your chances? I'm asking this to the guys who went to Eurpoe as well, as i'd love to go somewhere and learn a new language.

 

Cheers

 

I started learning Spanish in September 2006. The idea of going to Spain was suggested to me on 22 December, 2006 and I decided upon it there and then. I arrived in Spain on 10 March 2007. I went to a Spanish academy for six weeks (in Salamanca) which had an arrangement with an employment agency in Marbella. I was there for the summer, then came to Madrid, where, yes, I "took my chances".

 

You can start learning a language in Scotland no bother. There are lots of good courses online, library books and you can look for a language exchange through gumtree in you are in Edinburgh. Being in the country makes it a lot easier, but it can start well before you arrive.

 

Obviously, the EU makes everything simpler in the sense that there are no visas and you can work no bother and stay as long as you want.

 

Good luck, tell us how it goes if you decide to take the plunge.

 

http://www.languagesonline.org.uk/

[Maple Leaf]

Hmm I guess the accent is really for English speaking countries. I'm thinking more USA/Canada.

 

In Canada, a Scottish accent and $2 will get you a good cup of coffee in most restaurants! There was a time when the Scots were influential in Canada, but those days are long gone. In the last 30-40 years it has become a much more cosmopolitan country which has been, in my opinion, a change for the better.

 

When I left Scotland, there were only two things I missed. One was my family, and the other was the Hearts. At first it was a difficult adjustment. My Scottish relatives are now all gone. My children are Canadian-born and so are my grandchildren, so now my occasional visits back are mainly to see Hearts. The possibility of moving back to Scotland permanently is simply not on the cards.

 

I think that the most successful emigrants are those who integrate into their new community. Personally, I don't see the point in living in a 'Little Britain' in a foreign land. Making friends with people from different cultures is a great experience, one which I think is a big benefit from emigrating.

 

Emigration is not for everyone. It takes a lot of adjusting, especially at first, and some people can't settle down in their new surroundings. But for me there are no regrets and certainly no guilt.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Very interesting thread, I'm only twenty one but have wanted to move abroad for a long time, probably to Australia. My question to the guys who have done it is, did you just get up and go? Obviously it takes a fair bit planning but I what I mean is, do you need a job or a career lined up in advance or did you just head across and take your chances? I'm asking this to the guys who went to Eurpoe as well, as i'd love to go somewhere and learn a new language.

 

Cheers

 

 

My family and I took our chances to a degree as we came in on the Skilled Independent visas, because my wife is a nurse.

 

You can do the 12 month working visa thing or apply and have an employer sponsor you. The 12 month thing can set you up to - a guy I worked with at NAB on one of those has just been offered a permanent role with NAB sponsoring him.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

A lot of this applies to me, except I've been in LA for nearly ten years now so much of what you miss on the creature comfort side will fade in time. On the bacon front, I just couldn't imagine ever getting to grips with that scrawny streaky American stuff but now I can't imagine much different. Tesco have opened a chain up called Fresh and Easy out here - I bought some of their Danish bacon, you know the good back stuff. The kids hated it and I found myself being surprisingly underwhelmed by the experience!

 

We've never consciously thought that we actually live here. In all our time, we've always looked on it as an extended stay. But then you realize that life starts catching up with you. The boys are thoroughly Californianized and one of them is an American. It would be difficult to move them back.

 

Things I miss most are the rituals - Saturday pub for breakfast before football, BBC tele, newspapers, Irn Bru and Baked Beans, family lunches, etc. But then you realize that there isn't much football on a Saturday and I still meet up with people to watch it in a oub, BBC America is just fine, there'splenty of British shops that sell everything from Birds custard to Bisto at a wee bit of a premium, all the newspapers are printed out here now and available same day, and most family events dissolved into bickering and arguments anyway!

 

So we're left with a far better standard of living, a beautiful beautiful state where we're twenty minutes from the the beaches, an hour from ski resorts and two hours from the desert - I've just got back from the Coachella Music Festival - and sun approximately 300 days of the year. The food and restaurants in LA are world class, we've got the Lakers and USC football - alright that's balanced by the Dodgers and the Kings - and we're surrounded by beautiful scenery. You drive along Mulholland to take you down to Laurel Canyon and across into town on an early morning and it's simply breathtaking.

 

I'm privileged to be here. I don't know whether I'll be here in six months time even, but I wouldn't have swapped it for the world. Fecking marvellous.

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You forgot Santa Anita.

[Rosewood]

Great thread.

 

I've been out in the Cayman Islands for almost three years now and my wife and I decided a few months back that our time was up. We've just had a baby and the lure of home and family (and Hearts) was just too strong. Absolutely loved being out here as there are a huge variety of nationalities to mix with and I've now got friends all over the world to visit.

 

I've only got a week and a half left here so it is beginning to hit home now that we are leaving and I'm sad to be going. I ride a scooter to work everyday and the temperature never drops below 20 degrees during the day. It is a very laidback lifestyle that has been a great break from city life but I am now really excited to make the move home.

 

I agree with most of what's already been said above. If you get a chance to live abroad - even just for a short time - grab it with both hands.