What exactly is the "plan" among SPL clubs?

[hEartley]

Hi guys. I'm an outsider who has been following hearts since about 2001. (Canadian, born in Uruguay).

 

I've been following football from all over the world since i was 3. In every league, there seems to be a focus or plan of action for the small teams to over take the bigger teams.

In Holland, Germany, Uruguay, Argentina, this has lead to a "revolution" of sorts. With the big clubs either being ousted or at least pushed to the limit.

Usually this would take the form of a "10 year plan" which would have the smaller teams gang up to try to cut down the bigger teams' advantages.

In Uruguay for example (a league shockingly similar to Scotland's), this was caused by 1) heavy investment in youth programs and 2) directly selling their players to big european clubs, instead of selling them to the "big 2", as they had being doing for over 80 years.

 

But it seems to me, that only in Scotland do the non Old Firm teams helplessly give in to the Old Firm's will. There's no plan. There's no hope.

The most frustrating thing about this is that Rangers and Celtic are so mediocre. I honestly think a 2nd division argentine club could whoop them 3 or 4-0 ....at Ibrox/Celtic Park!

 

Hearts' situation is the most baffling. They state last year that they will start working on a long term plan (using mostly youth players from their academy......and then months later buy a whole new batch over overpriced , mediocre baffoons.

 

 

Vital Hearts (Fan blog) once even wrote an article on the rise of many small clubs around the world. From the J-League - through Argentina- to Mexico even. The author expressed his frustration that this wasn't being followed in Scotland.

 

Is there any plan in the works....any hope? I really want hearts to get out of this mess.

[superjoe]

One of the main factors to your answer is money. Rangers and Celtic attract 50,000 fans and the rest of the SPL bring in about 10,000. So simply they can offer 5x the money any of the other teams can offer and simply buy success not to mention plunder any decent players other teams have.

 

On the other point about the SPL being so poor, Its not as bad as some people make out. What people tend to forget is that Scotland is a pretty small country and no where near as big as Argentina.

[Del1812]

Hi guys. I'm an outsider who has been following hearts since about 2001. (Canadian, born in Uruguay).

 

I've been following football from all over the world since i was 3. In every league, there seems to be a focus or plan of action for the small teams to over take the bigger teams.

In Holland, Germany, Uruguay, Argentina, this has lead to a "revolution" of sorts. With the big clubs either being ousted or at least pushed to the limit.

Usually this would take the form of a "10 year plan" which would have the smaller teams gang up to try to cut down the bigger teams' advantages.

In Uruguay for example (a league shockingly similar to Scotland's), this was caused by 1) heavy investment in youth programs and 2) directly selling their players to big european clubs, instead of selling them to the "big 2", as they had being doing for over 80 years.

 

But it seems to me, that only in Scotland do the non Old Firm teams helplessly give in to the Old Firm's will. There's no plan. There's no hope.

The most frustrating thing about this is that Rangers and Celtic are so mediocre. I honestly think a 2nd division argentine club could whoop them 3 or 4-0 ....at Ibrox/Celtic Park!

 

Hearts' situation is the most baffling. They state last year that they will start working on a long term plan (using mostly youth players from their academy......and then months later buy a whole new batch over overpriced , mediocre baffoons.

 

 

Vital Hearts (Fan blog) once even wrote an article on the rise of many small clubs around the world. From the J-League - through Argentina- to Mexico even. The author expressed his frustration that this wasn't being followed in Scotland.

 

Is there any plan in the works....any hope? I really want hearts to get out of this mess.

 

This is a very good point and something worth looking into further but I'd venture that the main reason this doesn't happen in Scotland is the collective attitudes of players who play in this country.

 

I don't want to make myself out to be an expert on Uruguayuan football but I'd imagine the dream for most of the players is to play at the top level in European football. For Scottish players the dream is to play in the Premiership in England.

 

That's right, not in any other European leagues, just the Premiership. It's part of British culture. You could count with your fingers the number of British footballers there are playing abroad. Hell, you could easily count the number to have done so in the last ten years. If youngsters aren't interested in moving abroad then that completely narrows down your options for selling them on. If English teams aren't interested then all that leaves is the Old Firm, who clubs will have to sell to because their interest unsettles the player and the club needs the cash.

[IMA MAROON]

Hi guys. I'm an outsider who has been following hearts since about 2001. (Canadian, born in Uruguay).

 

I've been following football from all over the world since i was 3. In every league, there seems to be a focus or plan of action for the small teams to over take the bigger teams.

In Holland, Germany, Uruguay, Argentina, this has lead to a "revolution" of sorts. With the big clubs either being ousted or at least pushed to the limit.

Usually this would take the form of a "10 year plan" which would have the smaller teams gang up to try to cut down the bigger teams' advantages.

In Uruguay for example (a league shockingly similar to Scotland's), this was caused by 1) heavy investment in youth programs and 2) directly selling their players to big european clubs, instead of selling them to the "big 2", as they had being doing for over 80 years.

 

But it seems to me, that only in Scotland do the non Old Firm teams helplessly give in to the Old Firm's will. There's no plan. There's no hope.

The most frustrating thing about this is that Rangers and Celtic are so mediocre. I honestly think a 2nd division argentine club could whoop them 3 or 4-0 ....at Ibrox/Celtic Park!

 

Hearts' situation is the most baffling. They state last year that they will start working on a long term plan (using mostly youth players from their academy......and then months later buy a whole new batch over overpriced , mediocre baffoons.

 

 

Vital Hearts (Fan blog) once even wrote an article on the rise of many small clubs around the world. From the J-League - through Argentina- to Mexico even. The author expressed his frustration that this wasn't being followed in Scotland.

 

Is there any plan in the works....any hope? I really want hearts to get out of this mess.

 

You can't force players to leave the country. They see Rangers and Celtic as the best thing that can happen.

[jamboinglasgow]

This is a very good point and something worth looking into further but I'd venture that the main reason this doesn't happen in Scotland is the collective attitudes of players who play in this country.

 

I don't want to make myself out to be an expert on Uruguayuan football but I'd imagine the dream for most of the players is to play at the top level in European football. For Scottish players the dream is to play in the Premiership in England.

 

That's right, not in any other European leagues, just the Premiership. It's part of British culture. You could count with your fingers the number of British footballers there are playing abroad. Hell, you could easily count the number to have done so in the last ten years. If youngsters aren't interested in moving abroad then that completely narrows down your options for selling them on. If English teams aren't interested then all that leaves is the Old Firm, who clubs will have to sell to because their interest unsettles the player and the club needs the cash.

 

Thats part of the problem. Young talented players rarely want to play outside of Britain these days. They are fed that the premiership is the greatest league to play in when there are other great leagues. It is also down to language. Alot of footballers are not the greatest educated, certainly not in language (a common problem in Britain.) Meaning that they would be worried of living in a different country where it requires to speak a different language. If you could teach language earlier and drum it in to footballers then you would find they would move to different countries to play. PSG are coming over to Falkirk at Easter with their U14 team to train at Falkirks stadium but also instensivly learn English for two weeks. I think other clubs should do that, maybe take two countries, Spain and France and take youngsters there for two weeks to learn the culture and the language. One of the draws for Faberas mum to send her son to Arsenal was he would learn another language and learn a new culture. I read of one ex-player who asked his English youth team if they would ever abroad and they just looked at him like he asked them if they had ever seen an alien.

[TheBigO]

All good points about Scottish (and British) players not wanting to go abroad. It's a real shame, but it's typical good-ol'-blightiness. They'd miss the fry-ups and telly etc, you know! British people don't adapt well to cultural change, fact!

 

There's more than just that in answer to the OP though. In Scotland, the football is basically run by the Old Firm. No decision that I can think of has ever been passed without them on side. Am I wrong here?

 

This makes it very hard for the other teams to galvanise and leaves each team out on a limb to fight their own corner, which in most cases is just to stay afloat and no more really (look at Kilmarnock, it's amazing they are still running, let alone in the top flight).

 

Teams do invest in youth and i think it's still fair to say that up until 18/19, Scotland punch above our weight. We could do better and focus more on technique and tactical discipline, but we still produce some pretty good youth teams which do well in tournaments (it wasn't so long ago we reached the U19 euro final).

 

What happens to these players imo, is one of 2 things. They do well and are sold to England or the Old Firm (as covered by other posters); or they stagnate, stay where they are or drop down the divisions.

 

The reason for the stagnation is quite often that they are pushed too early and the pressures of first team football at an early age and limited resources at clubs mean their development comes to a halt and they are considered to be first team players and therefore fully fledges pros. The emphasis is on getting players to that point, where it needs to actually continue beyond. This is endemic in our country. Boys look great when they come through but just don't seem to push on. Be interesting to see how the youngsters currently playing for Aberdeen and Motherwell are doing in 5 years' time.

 

Every team in Scotland, OF included, need to sit around a table and work out how to go forward. The only time this is done seems to be to talk about how to procure investment or over TV deals. We need to talk about how to move forward and start creating players and giving them a platform to perform and the best chance humanly possible to succeed.

 

I can see the problems and we all know they need solved, but I'm not sure there's anyone currently in Scotland with either the gonads or the knowledge to go about changing things. I personally feel they need to bring in experts from Holland or the likes to guide us through the process but, I go back to my original point, it won't happen as we fear change and other cultures.

 

Well done to anyone who has made it to the end of this post!!

[shaun.lawson]

This is a very good point and something worth looking into further but I'd venture that the main reason this doesn't happen in Scotland is the collective attitudes of players who play in this country.

 

I don't want to make myself out to be an expert on Uruguayuan football but I'd imagine the dream for most of the players is to play at the top level in European football. For Scottish players the dream is to play in the Premiership in England.

 

That's right, not in any other European leagues, just the Premiership. It's part of British culture. You could count with your fingers the number of British footballers there are playing abroad. Hell, you could easily count the number to have done so in the last ten years. If youngsters aren't interested in moving abroad then that completely narrows down your options for selling them on. If English teams aren't interested then all that leaves is the Old Firm, who clubs will have to sell to because their interest unsettles the player and the club needs the cash.

 

One thing I'd add on this is it's natural for anyone to only want to move to a country where they can speak the lingo. The only place in Europe where English is the first language is, of course, the UK; South American players, meanwhile, naturally head for Spain. And some for Italy, where the language isn't difficult to learn given the similarities between Spanish and Italian.

 

Without wishing to take this down a Shed direction, the right wing press are always complaining about asylum seekers who travel through France to get to Britain. The point that it isn't because of our benefits, but in fact, is invariably because they want to be somewhere where English is the first language, is completely missed in the rush to condemn them.

[shaun.lawson]

All good points about Scottish (and British) players not wanting to go abroad. It's a real shame, but it's typical good-ol'-blightiness. They'd miss the fry-ups and telly etc, you know! British people don't adapt well to cultural change, fact!

 

There's more than just that in answer to the OP though. In Scotland, the football is basically run by the Old Firm. No decision that I can think of has ever been passed without them on side. Am I wrong here?

 

This makes it very hard for the other teams to galvanise and leaves each team out on a limb to fight their own corner, which in most cases is just to stay afloat and no more really (look at Kilmarnock, it's amazing they are still running, let alone in the top flight).

 

Teams do invest in youth and i think it's still fair to say that up until 18/19, Scotland punch above our weight. We could do better and focus more on technique and tactical discipline, but we still produce some pretty good youth teams which do well in tournaments (it wasn't so long ago we reached the U19 euro final).

 

What happens to these players imo, is one of 2 things. They do well and are sold to England or the Old Firm (as covered by other posters); or they stagnate, stay where they are or drop down the divisions.

 

The reason for the stagnation is quite often that they are pushed too early and the pressures of first team football at an early age and limited resources at clubs mean their development comes to a halt and they are considered to be first team players and therefore fully fledges pros. The emphasis is on getting players to that point, where it needs to actually continue beyond. This is endemic in our country. Boys look great when they come through but just don't seem to push on. Be interesting to see how the youngsters currently playing for Aberdeen and Motherwell are doing in 5 years' time.

 

Every team in Scotland, OF included, need to sit around a table and work out how to go forward. The only time this is done seems to be to talk about how to procure investment or over TV deals. We need to talk about how to move forward and start creating players and giving them a platform to perform and the best chance humanly possible to succeed.

 

I can see the problems and we all know they need solved, but I'm not sure there's anyone currently in Scotland with either the gonads or the knowledge to go about changing things. I personally feel they need to bring in experts from Holland or the likes to guide us through the process but, I go back to my original point, it won't happen as we fear change and other cultures.

 

Well done to anyone who has made it to the end of this post!!

 

I think there's another thing too. Glass ceilings.

 

If you're at Celtic or Rangers, and you win the league, you basically can't do any better. There used to be the prospect of reaching the CL last 16 too, but that's fast vanishing as poverty bites and standards keep falling. So players stagnate, because they've nothing left to aim for. Ditto at all non-OF clubs: with us, it's a case of "finish 3rd... and then what?" Because unless there's a total implosion at Ibrox over the next few months, the answer is nothing - and has been for many years now.

 

In life, we all need to have new goals and ambitions to aim for, otherwise we ourselves stagnate. People need to be taken out of their comfort zones in order to realise their potential. Scottish football being what it is, there's no possibility of this happening for far too many players. I think Kenny Miller, for example, was a far better footballer when he first broke through a decade or so ago at Hibs than now, and that Scott Brown has completely stagnated at Celtic. How many players improve considerably after joining the OF, which amounts to the summit of their ambitions? Very few.

[TheBigO]

I think there's another thing too. Glass ceilings.

 

If you're at Celtic or Rangers, and you win the league, you basically can't do any better. There used to be the prospect of reaching the CL last 16 too, but that's fast vanishing as poverty bites and standards keep falling. So players stagnate, because they've nothing left to aim for. Ditto at all non-OF clubs: with us, it's a case of "finish 3rd... and then what?" Because unless there's a total implosion at Ibrox over the next few months, the answer is nothing - and has been for many years now.

 

In life, we all need to have new goals and ambitions to aim for, otherwise we ourselves stagnate. People need to be taken out of their comfort zones in order to realise their potential. Scottish football being what it is, there's no possibility of this happening for far too many players. I think Kenny Miller, for example, was a far better footballer when he first broke through a decade or so ago at Hibs than now, and that Scott Brown has completely stagnated at Celtic. How many players improve considerably after joining the OF, which amounts to the summit of their ambitions? Very few.

 

Correct, sir. But thinking back to the 80s etc, I don't think players worked harder or we produced better players etc because of the call of europe. ofcourse europe was great back then - greater some would say, but it seemed that doing well in the league - managing to come 2nd etc was the whole point.

 

Nowadays it's a case of, 'well ofcourse you came 3rd, so what? What were you up against?!'. I think this is what the OP seems to have said was the problem which has been resolved in Uruguay. They've pushed up the standard of the football in general, so to achieve something in Uruguay is to actually do well and do something prideful.

 

In an ideal situation - and I think it was like this in the 80s although everything in history is rosy - even coming 3rd has a real sense of achievement because you've beaten off a strong Dundee Utd, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee, whoever...

 

Now the only feasible way to reach that standard and therefore level of interest, is to look at how we're producing our own players and technically why they stagnate. I agree about Miller (much maligned, but i think a good player actually!) and Brown not fulfilling early potential, but to say it's only because they went to the OF isn't enough. We need to look at the reason the OF allow players to stagnate and in general why Scottish clubs can't nurture talent to it's full potential.

 

A country that produces a number of excellent 18 year olds, but whose 25-30 yearolds at their peak are rarely more than mediocre, needs to look at why

 

I think if the answer to that can be found, we'll be on the right path. Whether it could ever work as in Uruguay and teams agree not to sell to the OF, I'm not so sure. Their money (well, we'll see about the huns) will always prevail or we'll get the Andy Webster situations.

[shaun.lawson]

Correct, sir. But thinking back to the 80s etc, I don't think players worked harder or we produced better players etc because of the call of europe. ofcourse europe was great back then - greater some would say, but it seemed that doing well in the league - managing to come 2nd etc was the whole point.

 

Nowadays it's a case of, 'well ofcourse you came 3rd, so what? What were you up against?!'. I think this is what the OP seems to have said was the problem which has been resolved in Uruguay. They've pushed up the standard of the football in general, so to achieve something in Uruguay is to actually do well and do something prideful.

 

In an ideal situation - and I think it was like this in the 80s although everything in history is rosy - even coming 3rd has a real sense of achievement because you've beaten off a strong Dundee Utd, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee, whoever...

 

Now the only feasible way to reach that standard and therefore level of interest, is to look at how we're producing our own players and technically why they stagnate. I agree about Miller (much maligned, but i think a good player actually!) and Brown not fulfilling early potential, but to say it's only because they went to the OF isn't enough. We need to look at the reason the OF allow players to stagnate and in general why Scottish clubs can't nurture talent to it's full potential.

 

A country that produces a number of excellent 18 year olds, but whose 25-30 yearolds at their peak are rarely more than mediocre, needs to look at why

 

I think if the answer to that can be found, we'll be on the right path. Whether it could ever work as in Uruguay and teams agree not to sell to the OF, I'm not so sure. Their money (well, we'll see about the huns) will always prevail or we'll get the Andy Webster situations.

 

I agree. Because the New Firm were so strong, Hearts' 5th place finish in 1984 was a real achievement: now it'd constitute utter rankness!

 

One thing though. Uruguay export more footballers per capita than any other nation on the planet - and players leave the country at a younger and younger age. In turn, this frees up the top division for very young players, the best of whom themselves leave for Europe before long; but means they're not blocked off by experienced veterans when it comes to playing for Uruguay's top clubs, and also gives them something to aim for - both when they're developing as a teenager, and later when they're playing in the top division and aspiring to move to Europe. It's a conveyor belt effect, basically.

[TheBigO]

I agree. Because the New Firm were so strong, Hearts' 5th place finish in 1984 was a real achievement: now it'd constitute utter rankness!

 

One thing though. Uruguay export more footballers per capita than any other nation on the planet - and players leave the country at a younger and younger age. In turn, this frees up the top division for very young players, the best of whom themselves leave for Europe before long; but means they're not blocked off by experienced veterans when it comes to playing for Uruguay's top clubs, and also gives them something to aim for - both when they're developing as a teenager, and later when they're playing in the top division and aspiring to move to Europe. It's a conveyor belt effect, basically.

 

Great. more than happy if Scotland was like that (to an extent). Surely guys like Stephen Fletcher and Craig Gordon have made better career moves that Scott Brown and Kevin Thompson?? Even Gary O'Connor going to Russia, ok it didn't quite work out in a footballing sense, but we need more boys to do this.

 

And as you say, aslong as there are players ready to step in, then that's fine.

 

You'll still get career SPL players who were never quite good enough to move to EPL etc. They'll be essential for the development of young players too, and always have been. For every Christophe Berra you develop, there'll be a Robbie Neilson. For every Robbo, there'll be a Neil Berry. So it's not like it'll be 11 out 11 in each season either as I'm sure it's not in Uruguay or other 'model' countries either.

[shaun.lawson]

Great. more than happy if Scotland was like that (to an extent). Surely guys like Stephen Fletcher and Craig Gordon have made better career moves that Scott Brown and Kevin Thompson?? Even Gary O'Connor going to Russia, ok it didn't quite work out in a footballing sense, but we need more boys to do this.

 

And as you say, aslong as there are players ready to step in, then that's fine.

 

You'll still get career SPL players who were never quite good enough to move to EPL etc. They'll be essential for the development of young players too, and always have been. For every Christophe Berra you develop, there'll be a Robbie Neilson. For every Robbo, there'll be a Neil Berry. So it's not like it'll be 11 out 11 in each season either as I'm sure it's not in Uruguay or other 'model' countries either.

 

It's alarmingly close to that in Uruguay, to be honest! Hence Danubio's rise: they were a nursery club to begin with, but have prospered precisely because top flight players there are now so incredibly young. But in terms of the same thing happening in Scotland: if a several tiered European Super League is formed, I'm convinced it'll have the effect of forcing domestic clubs left behind to run themselves properly, and focus on bringing through young players, the best of whom could then be sold on to Super League sides. This'd create a virtuous cycle, and benefit national teams enormously.

[jamboinglasgow]

I have been thinking this. A severly weakened Rangers finacially could have another benefit to Scottish football not just in mor competition for second place. I think there is a real chance that Rangers and Celtics unspoken partnership could break. You do get the impression that for the last season or so Celtic have been using Rangers as the whipping boy i.e. Celtic get Rangers to suggest things that are unpopular and Rangers get the main flack. It means that having a second team to back you up will get what you want through.

 

Now with a serverly weakened Rangers, Rangers may feel that this isn't right any more as it now harms them so spilt from the OF partnership. Leaving Celtic on their own and open to attack. This in turn could allow for the major restructuring of Scottish football to happen as the power block of the two is not there anymore.

[TheBigO]

I have been thinking this. A severly weakened Rangers finacially could have another benefit to Scottish football not just in mor competition for second place. I think there is a real chance that Rangers and Celtics unspoken partnership could break. You do get the impression that for the last season or so Celtic have been using Rangers as the whipping boy i.e. Celtic get Rangers to suggest things that are unpopular and Rangers get the main flack. It means that having a second team to back you up will get what you want through.

 

Now with a serverly weakened Rangers, Rangers may feel that this isn't right any more as it now harms them so spilt from the OF partnership. Leaving Celtic on their own and open to attack. This in turn could allow for the major restructuring of Scottish football to happen as the power block of the two is not there anymore.

 

 

I see what you're saying actually. Could be interesting times ahead if Rangers find themselves vulnerable, it could go in many directions.

 

Celtic would struggle without Rangers, that's the truth, so we'll wait and see how they get eachother out of it!

[Shinzo]

All good points about Scottish (and British) players not wanting to go abroad. It's a real shame, but it's typical good-ol'-blightiness. They'd miss the fry-ups and telly etc, you know! British people don't adapt well to cultural change, fact!

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/rangers-opponents-unirea-used-to-receiving-no-for-an-answer-1.926882

 

Here's an article about Jim McAlister of Morton. He played Unirea Urziceni in pre-season,they offered him a contract. He said no..now still at Morton after failing a trial at Watford. Still in glamorous,dripping with wealth Greenock. Why didn't he go?

 

"I think if it had involved life-changing money then I would have jumped at it"

 

"the standard of living, and I still think there is a lot of poverty there."

 

 

"my agent..advised me not to go. He said it is all very well having six games in the Champions League but he didn?t think that the standard of their domestic game was up to much" (he plays in Scottish 1st Division!)

 

Now he is waiting for his contract to expire in the summer. Playing at Ayr and Kirkcaldy, not Stuttgart and Seville.

[TheBigO]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/rangers/rangers-opponents-unirea-used-to-receiving-no-for-an-answer-1.926882

 

Here's an article about Jim McAlister of Morton. He played Unirea Urziceni in pre-season,they offered him a contract. He said no..now still at Morton after failing a trial at Watford. Still in glamorous,dripping with wealth Greenock. Why didn't he go?

 

"I think if it had involved life-changing money then I would have jumped at it"

 

"the standard of living, and I still think there is a lot of poverty there."

 

 

"my agent..advised me not to go. He said it is all very well having six games in the Champions League but he didn?t think that the standard of their domestic game was up to much" (he plays in Scottish 1st Division!)

 

Now he is waiting for his contract to expire in the summer. Playing at Ayr and Kirkcaldy, not Stuttgart and Seville.

 

Yep, I read that with a heavy heart last week. He lives in Greenock and wouldn't go to Romania because of poverty and standard of living!!!! No even Gourock - GREENOCK FFS!

 

They probably have 'foreign' food in Romania too, so better to be safe and stay in Scotland. It's frightening, actually frightening.

[hEartley]

these are fantastic points you are all making.

My old man, growing up in uruguay, had 0 contact with british football. So I had to introduce me to the scottish game. It took him about 1 week of following when he suddenly said: "I think they might be holding the EPL as "the standard of top tier", and it shouldn't be like that.". Not because the EPL was "Crap" (although I would say that only 4-5 teams there are actually world class, while many of the rest are flat out terrible-mediocre). But it's to shake up things a bit. See different ways the game can be practiced....developed.

 

Some clubs are doing incredible things with no money all over the world (Lanus of Argentina, a text book case. They were nearly bankrupt a few years ago.)

 

I really do love Scotland. Ever since 05, I started to go to scottish pubs to watch the NT, and met some of the greatest fans I've ever met in world football. They deserve more...much more.

 

 

I loved your examples about why Uruguayan players have more ambition. It's been working IMO. Lately there's been an explosion of talent all over the youth systems, and even the first division.

[hEartley]

I have question about Paul Hartley. How did you view him during his days with Celtic? Did he improve? Did he seem more motivated?

 

I remember him at Hearts, he was a warrior. A hot head, passionate game in and game out. I remember actually cracking up when I saw Celtic v. Aberdeen once, and he had a gut hanging. I felt him playing DMF, almost castrated him of his attacking talents.

[jamboinglasgow]

I have question about Paul Hartley. How did you view him during his days with Celtic? Did he improve? Did he seem more motivated?

 

I remember him at Hearts, he was a warrior. A hot head, passionate game in and game out. I remember actually cracking up when I saw Celtic v. Aberdeen once, and he had a gut hanging. I felt him playing DMF, almost castrated him of his attacking talents.

 

Thats a good point. Look at Brown as well. A very attacking player for hibs, he looked a talented player on the wings and a creative force for them. Moves to Celtic where he is turned into a midfield bruiser. There soley to provide crunching tackles and win the opposition up.

 

In this country size is held to be the key. A small skillfull player is treated as not good enough as is too small. There is recurring tales of brillant players chucked out of academys because they were thought as too small and too thin to make a difference at the age 12. And if players are big enough they are made to ignore technique and used instead as a battering ram.

 

Problem is that we are not the strongest and biggest team and cant outmuscle other teams. So we need to look at how teams beat physical teams and other technical teams.

[TheBigO]

these are fantastic points you are all making.

My old man, growing up in uruguay, had 0 contact with british football. So I had to introduce me to the scottish game. It took him about 1 week of following when he suddenly said: "I think they might be holding the EPL as "the standard of top tier", and it shouldn't be like that.". Not because the EPL was "Crap" (although I would say that only 4-5 teams there are actually world class, while many of the rest are flat out terrible-mediocre). But it's to shake up things a bit. See different ways the game can be practiced....developed.

 

Some clubs are doing incredible things with no money all over the world (Lanus of Argentina, a text book case. They were nearly bankrupt a few years ago.)

 

I really do love Scotland. Ever since 05, I started to go to scottish pubs to watch the NT, and met some of the greatest fans I've ever met in world football. They deserve more...much more.

 

 

I loved your examples about why Uruguayan players have more ambition. It's been working IMO. Lately there's been an explosion of talent all over the youth systems, and even the first division.

 

Your dad is a wise man. We shouldn't be looking to England for the answers - their teams are full of foreigners and that's never going to be the answer here - they refuse to embrace new ideas almost as much as we do. We should be looking to countries who produce their own players who then move abroad to better things or stay put and make their league strong, and taking what we can from them. Argentina, Brasil and Uruguay; Holland, Croatia and Czech Rep; Italy, Spain and Germany.

 

Even the likes of S Korea and Japan, I'm sure we could take something, not just coaching techniques as such, but the outlook on youth football and how it corralates to the wider picture.