What a Uruguayan Hearts fan (yes, really) thinks of the Old Firm

[shaun.lawson]

I discovered a new forum the other day, which specifically covers the Uruguayan game. Wonderfully, one of its main contributors follows Hearts: has done since 2001. So we got chatting about the Scottish game, as you do - and someone asked him about the OF.

 

Bear in mind that this chap has grown up in probably the only other country on the planet which, historically and until pretty recently, was held in a vice-like grip by two clubs: Penarol and Nacional. So you'd think he might be able to relate to the OF: right? Wrong. First he said this:

 

I really have no interest in talking to anyone who supports Celtic or Rangers. They are in their own world and usually couldn't care less about the other Scottish teams.

 

Then he said this:

 

I can't stand Celtic and Rangers for what they've done to Scottish football....the league....and the national team. In a way, Nacional and Penarol are "similar" in that they have been overwhelmingly the most successful teams in the league's history.

 

But I don't want anyone to even remotely think that Nacional and Penarol are even similar to those 2 monster clubs. In the late 80s, the "parity" seen in Uruguayan football emerged. The resurgence of small clubs is actually encouraged by the big 2.

 

In Scotland, it's unheard of to say that another club is better than the old firm. Once I saw Celtic and Rangers 40 points clear of the rest of the league!!! (when Bellamy was there). Even when another team beats the Old Firm, they are usually out shot 45-2. Just ......speechless.

 

Words can't describe how much I hate those 2 clubs. I would actually celebrate if they were to stop existing....or if they went bankrupt. *******s.

 

Kinda says it all, doesn't it? Note that Uruguay's two super clubs have encouraged and been pleased by the emergence of real competition: the way the OF behave probably has no parallel anywhere.

[Say What Again]

Words can't describe how much I hate those 2 clubs. I would actually celebrate if they were to stop existing....or if they went bankrupt. *******s.

 

Tell him he's a legend

 

 

 

PS Do you ever go out Shaun?

[shaun.lawson]

Tell him he's a legend

 

 

 

PS Do you ever go out Shaun?

 

Hmm. Working on that one!

[Optimus Prime]

I discovered a new forum the other day, which specifically covers the Uruguayan game. Wonderfully, one of its main contributors follows Hearts: has done since 2001. So we got chatting about the Scottish game, as you do - and someone asked him about the OF.

 

Bear in mind that this chap has grown up in probably the only other country on the planet which, historically and until pretty recently, was held in a vice-like grip by two clubs: Penarol and Nacional. So you'd think he might be able to relate to the OF: right? Wrong. First he said this:

 

I really have no interest in talking to anyone who supports Celtic or Rangers. They are in their own world and usually couldn't care less about the other Scottish teams.

 

Then he said this:

 

I can't stand Celtic and Rangers for what they've done to Scottish football....the league....and the national team. In a way, Nacional and Penarol are "similar" in that they have been overwhelmingly the most successful teams in the league's history.

 

But I don't want anyone to even remotely think that Nacional and Penarol are even similar to those 2 monster clubs. In the late 80s, the "parity" seen in Uruguayan football emerged. The resurgence of small clubs is actually encouraged by the big 2.

 

In Scotland, it's unheard of to say that another club is better than the old firm. Once I saw Celtic and Rangers 40 points clear of the rest of the league!!! (when Bellamy was there). Even when another team beats the Old Firm, they are usually out shot 45-2. Just ......speechless.

 

Words can't describe how much I hate those 2 clubs. I would actually celebrate if they were to stop existing....or if they went bankrupt. *******s.

 

Kinda says it all, doesn't it? Note that Uruguay's two super clubs have encouraged and been pleased by the emergence of real competition: the way the OF behave probably has no parallel anywhere.

 

Personally i don't think 2 clubs having a "vice like grip" on their league is exclusive to both Scotland and Uruguay. There is examples of this littered throughout the game.

 

Also without having an in depth knowledge of Uruguay domestic football I would be slightly sceptical to the extent Penerol or National would go to encourage competition.

[I P Knightley]

Tell him he's a legend

 

 

 

PS Do you ever go out Shaun?

 

There are times when we really have to return to this question

 

Shaun, if you do eveer go outside, don't be alarmed if you see one of these:

 

 

Contrary to what others might tell you on messageboards, they are not visitors from another planet. They are what we like to call "trees" and they provide oxygen which we breathe and some provide nourishment.

[shaun.lawson]

Personally i don't think 2 clubs having a "vice like grip" on their league is exclusive to both Scotland and Uruguay. There is examples of this littered throughout the game.

 

Also without having an in depth knowledge of Uruguay domestic football I would be slightly sceptical to the extent Penerol or National would go to encourage competition.

 

Between them, the OF have won the Scottish title 94 times. Between them, Penarol and Nacional have won the Uruguayan title 82 times. Globally, both figures are pretty much unprecedented.

 

On your second point: hmm, not sure. But I'll be asking him more about that. Point being, the impact of clubs like Dabubio and Defensor can be to drive standards up, and keep the Big Two (or rather, Big One: Penarol have been in a state for years now) on their mettle. In Scotland, standards are falling across the board, as the OF stay miles ahead.

[Victorian]

imagine a parallel universe existing where the old firm genuinely and actively encouraged the other clubs to flourish and provide them with meaningful opposition for the general betterment of the scottish game.

 

it's easy if you try...

 

imagine all 'ra peepul'... living life in peace...

 

woohoo!!!

[shaun.lawson]

There are times when we really have to return to this question

 

Shaun, if you do eveer go outside, don't be alarmed if you see one of these:

 

 

Contrary to what others might tell you on messageboards, they are not visitors from another planet. They are what we like to call "trees" and they provide oxygen which we breathe and some provide nourishment.

 

 

The tree in that picture looks rather lonely. But fear not: I'm off out in just a bit!

[Say What Again]

Contrary to what others might tell you on messageboards, they are not visitors from another planet. They are what we like to call "trees" and they provide oxygen which we breathe and some provide nourishment.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Yes, but has he heard of Irvine Jambo?

[shaun.lawson]

Yes, but has he heard of Irvine Jambo?

 

I doubt it! He says he finds JKB just too big, and threads so long they're difficult to follow. To be fair, I'm probably responsible for about half of that, given how much I write...

[jamboinglasgow]

I discovered a new forum the other day, which specifically covers the Uruguayan game. Wonderfully, one of its main contributors follows Hearts: has done since 2001. So we got chatting about the Scottish game, as you do - and someone asked him about the OF.

 

Bear in mind that this chap has grown up in probably the only other country on the planet which, historically and until pretty recently, was held in a vice-like grip by two clubs: Penarol and Nacional. So you'd think he might be able to relate to the OF: right? Wrong. First he said this:

 

I really have no interest in talking to anyone who supports Celtic or Rangers. They are in their own world and usually couldn't care less about the other Scottish teams.

 

Then he said this:

 

I can't stand Celtic and Rangers for what they've done to Scottish football....the league....and the national team. In a way, Nacional and Penarol are "similar" in that they have been overwhelmingly the most successful teams in the league's history.

 

But I don't want anyone to even remotely think that Nacional and Penarol are even similar to those 2 monster clubs. In the late 80s, the "parity" seen in Uruguayan football emerged. The resurgence of small clubs is actually encouraged by the big 2.

 

In Scotland, it's unheard of to say that another club is better than the old firm. Once I saw Celtic and Rangers 40 points clear of the rest of the league!!! (when Bellamy was there). Even when another team beats the Old Firm, they are usually out shot 45-2. Just ......speechless.

 

Words can't describe how much I hate those 2 clubs. I would actually celebrate if they were to stop existing....or if they went bankrupt. *******s.

 

Kinda says it all, doesn't it? Note that Uruguay's two super clubs have encouraged and been pleased by the emergence of real competition: the way the OF behave probably has no parallel anywhere.

 

 

Very interesting Shaun, it is always good to hear that someone in a different country has taken Hearts to, well Heart.

 

It is also interesting to hear someones view on the old firm who is not from this country. And he is right. The old firm have a duopoly that detests any competition to break it up. He is too right with the statement that the old firm being 40 points ahead of any of the nearest team, then something is seriously wrong. Sure now it is a bit closer, last season was around 20 points.

 

Thing is, all the old firm need to do these days is say "hey if you want Scottish football to survive you need to let us go to where we want and be grateful for it," or the classic "hey we have a great plan to save Scottish football" then trot out a bunch of nosense about 10 team leagues and never say anything more until the next time people might be turning against you. The media will love it, praise the OF for them saving Scottish football even though they have done nothing except a lot of empty claims.

 

I think they should be dismantled or forced to play with Scottish only players that have been at the club since age 10 (that would be fun.) We have beat our gums about those two but ultimatly done nothing.

[Ben Dover]

Yes, but has he heard of Irvine Jambo?

 

I though it maybe was Irvine Jambo he's actually been talking to

The boys not the Middleweight champion of Uruguay is he

[The Old Tolbooth]

Hmm. Working on that one!

 

I'm sure you must suffer from rickets Shaun

[The Merse]

Yes the Old Firm are total ***** and have everything their own way.

 

However if we were actually run well ourselves then they would be there for the taking but we're not so they're not.

[Denny Crane]

Shaun if you do go out to Uruguay, brace yourself for some goats! The coach of the Glasgow Rocks basketball team used to play out there and said it was not uncommon to see a number of goats casually walking along the street.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Has he been to a game here or is it just one of these things where you pick a random team and follow their scores?

[Optimus Prime]

Between them, the OF have won the Scottish title 94 times. Between them, Penarol and Nacional have won the Uruguayan title 82 times. Globally, both figures are pretty much unprecedented.

 

On your second point: hmm, not sure. But I'll be asking him more about that. Point being, the impact of clubs like Dabubio and Defensor can be to drive standards up, and keep the Big Two (or rather, Big One: Penarol have been in a state for years now) on their mettle. In Scotland, standards are falling across the board, as the OF stay miles ahead.

 

I accept your point but this has a lot to do with historical context in term of when national leagues were set up. However the trend of 2 (or 3) clubs dominating a national league is far from something that only occurs in Scotland and Uruguay.

[jambovambo]

Shaun ... I read the OP before looking at who had posted it.

 

And thought to myself ... "... this guy has been chatting to the Uruguayan Shaun Lawson ..."

 

Then I look to see whose thread it is ...

 

Eeeek.

 

Sure you're not discussing it with yourself ?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Tell him he's a legend

 

 

 

PS Do you ever go out Shaun?

 

I think he has to cross the Rubicon of leaving his bedroom first.

[bighusref]

Surely the burning question is which Uruguayan team does Shaun Lawson support?

[jambovambo]

The Rubicon or the Styx?

[i8hibsh]

Shaun tell him from i8hibsh please that I like the cut of his jib

[Guest King]

Invite him to this forum no?

[I P Knightley]

Invite him to this forum no?

 

Has he been to every game home and away since he was 6 years old?

 

No?

 

Then he's not a real Hearts fan and would be unwelcome.

 

Would he be able to keep up with the ever evolving JKB lingo? How would "Get Her Pumped" go down on the streets of Montevideo?

 

And, as the man himself has suggested, would he have the time to read and translate every one of Shaun's posts?

 

Invite him on by all means but be aware of what he's being let in for.

[Guest King]

Has he been to every game home and away since he was 6 years old?

 

No?

 

Then he's not a real Hearts fan and would be unwelcome.

 

Would he be able to keep up with the ever evolving JKB lingo? How would "Get Her Pumped" go down on the streets of Montevideo?

 

And, as the man himself has suggested, would he have the time to read and translate every one of Shaun's posts?

 

Invite him on by all means but be aware of what he's being let in for.

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

Has he been to a game here or is it just one of these things where you pick a random team and follow their scores?

 

I think it's the latter - but he's very knowledgeable about HMFC, so will check.

[shaun.lawson]

Surely the burning question is which Uruguayan team does Shaun Lawson support?

 

Answer: in a basically couldn't care less kind of way, if I had to choose a team, it'd be Danubio.

[shaun.lawson]

I think he has to cross the Rubicon of leaving his bedroom first.

 

It will probably come as no surprise to you that my bedroom and my flat are basically the same thing. I live in a studio flat.

[shaun.lawson]

I though it maybe was Irvine Jambo he's actually been talking to

The boys not the Middleweight champion of Uruguay is he

 

Given the Uruguayans' reputation, if he was middleweight champion of the place, he'd be one hard *******o!

[shaun.lawson]

Invite him to this forum no?

 

As mentioned earlier, he thinks JKB is just too big, and has trouble keeping up with all the threads. I'll mention it again though, because I reckon he'd have a lot of fun on here and would be more than welcome.

[rudi must stay]

I discovered a new forum the other day, which specifically covers the Uruguayan game. Wonderfully, one of its main contributors follows Hearts: has done since 2001. So we got chatting about the Scottish game, as you do - and someone asked him about the OF.

 

Bear in mind that this chap has grown up in probably the only other country on the planet which, historically and until pretty recently, was held in a vice-like grip by two clubs: Penarol and Nacional. So you'd think he might be able to relate to the OF: right? Wrong. First he said this:

 

I really have no interest in talking to anyone who supports Celtic or Rangers. They are in their own world and usually couldn't care less about the other Scottish teams.

 

Then he said this:

 

I can't stand Celtic and Rangers for what they've done to Scottish football....the league....and the national team. In a way, Nacional and Penarol are "similar" in that they have been overwhelmingly the most successful teams in the league's history.

 

But I don't want anyone to even remotely think that Nacional and Penarol are even similar to those 2 monster clubs. In the late 80s, the "parity" seen in Uruguayan football emerged. The resurgence of small clubs is actually encouraged by the big 2.

 

In Scotland, it's unheard of to say that another club is better than the old firm. Once I saw Celtic and Rangers 40 points clear of the rest of the league!!! (when Bellamy was there). Even when another team beats the Old Firm, they are usually out shot 45-2. Just ......speechless.

 

Words can't describe how much I hate those 2 clubs. I would actually celebrate if they were to stop existing....or if they went bankrupt. *******s.

 

Kinda says it all, doesn't it? Note that Uruguay's two super clubs have encouraged and been pleased by the emergence of real competition: the way the OF behave probably has no parallel anywhere.

 

doesn't suprise me at all mate. We're a big club which last year had the 18th (or something like that) most supporters in Britain. Tbh, who cares if they encourage competition, they still win it every year exactly the same as the OF.

[shaun.lawson]

doesn't suprise me at all mate. We're a big club which last year had the 18th (or something like that) most supporters in Britain. Tbh, who cares if they encourage competition, they still win it every year exactly the same as the OF.

 

Ah - but they don't. The last 20 years have been completely different: Penarol have gone into decline, Defensor and Danubio have broken through and won it several times.

[rudi must stay]

Ah - but they don't. The last 20 years have been completely different: Penarol have gone into decline, Defensor and Danubio have broken through and won it several times.

 

they've only been different cos there's no money in that league. Unlike the SPL were the Old Firm have 10x more money than everyone else.

[Victor Mancini]

Tell him he's a legend

 

 

 

PS Do you ever go out Shaun?

 

I doubt it! He says he finds JKB just too big, and threads so long they're difficult to follow. To be fair, I'm probably responsible for about half of that, given how much I write...

 

ditto to all of the above!

though obviously you are a good jambo!

[Eggo]

I discovered a new forum the other day, which specifically covers the Uruguayan game. Wonderfully, one of its main contributors follows Hearts: has done since 2001. So we got chatting about the Scottish game, as you do - and someone asked him about the OF.

 

Bear in mind that this chap has grown up in probably the only other country on the planet which, historically and until pretty recently, was held in a vice-like grip by two clubs: Penarol and Nacional. So you'd think he might be able to relate to the OF: right? Wrong. First he said this:

 

I really have no interest in talking to anyone who supports Celtic or Rangers. They are in their own world and usually couldn't care less about the other Scottish teams.

 

Then he said this:

 

I can't stand Celtic and Rangers for what they've done to Scottish football....the league....and the national team. In a way, Nacional and Penarol are "similar" in that they have been overwhelmingly the most successful teams in the league's history.

 

But I don't want anyone to even remotely think that Nacional and Penarol are even similar to those 2 monster clubs. In the late 80s, the "parity" seen in Uruguayan football emerged. The resurgence of small clubs is actually encouraged by the big 2.

 

In Scotland, it's unheard of to say that another club is better than the old firm. Once I saw Celtic and Rangers 40 points clear of the rest of the league!!! (when Bellamy was there). Even when another team beats the Old Firm, they are usually out shot 45-2. Just ......speechless.

 

Words can't describe how much I hate those 2 clubs. I would actually celebrate if they were to stop existing....or if they went bankrupt. *******s.

 

Kinda says it all, doesn't it? Note that Uruguay's two super clubs have encouraged and been pleased by the emergence of real competition: the way the OF behave probably has no parallel anywhere.

 

 

 

 

This new forum,was it football or just men chatting to each other about ball games:smiley2:

[shaun.lawson]

This new forum,was it football or just men chatting to each other about ball games:smiley2:

 

 

Football, of course!

[bighusref]

Answer: in a basically couldn't care less kind of way, if I had to choose a team, it'd be Danubio.

 

[Le Chat]

Surely the burning question is which Uruguayan team does Shaun Lawson support?

 

Answer: in a basically couldn't care less kind of way, if I had to choose a team, it'd be Danubio.

 

Ah - but they don't. The last 20 years have been completely different: Penarol have gone into decline, Defensor and Danubio have broken through and won it several times.

 

Glory hunting ****.

[shaun.lawson]

Just to update this: onto the forum, up popped a Rangers fan talking absolute smack, enraged by what we were saying. This is what he said:

 

Why should we care about other Scottish teams?

 

They sure as hell wouldn't care about us if the tables were turned!

 

The damage? If it wasn't for our fans consistently pumping money into your cubs when we take our massive away crowds, which without (and SPL chairmen have even admitted) the SPL would just about die. Rangers and Celtic are more important to Scottish football than the other 10 clubs added together.

 

The fact is loads more people would watch Aberdeen vs Rangers than Dundee United vs Hearts ect. So the TV companies would rather show a game that pulled in much bigger ratings.

 

Rangers and Celtic are massive clubs in a small league.

 

No. Thats not how it works, we don't own any TV rights at all.

 

What happens is the SPL clubs vote and sell the rights to a TV Company/Companies every four years, who in turn pick the games that will get them the most viewers, which in most cases include Rangers or Celtic.

 

 

Jeez do you actually watch Scottish football?

 

We are destroying Scottish football! Catch a grip.

 

The other clubs are more to blame for the demise of Scottish football. The TV deal before the current one was between either Sky Sports and Setanta Sports, Setanta were offering more money on the table but the Sky deal in the long term was much much better and I mean MUCH. So guess what happens Rangers and Celtic and to be fair to them Aberdeen voted for the Sky deal but the rest seen the money in front of them and went for Setanta. A few years later Setanta go bust and we are left to take a cut price deal and now we all have no money.

 

You guys are really really ignorant when it comes to the importance of the OF.

 

This is what our Uruguayan friend said in response:

 

Typical. Self important / condescending garbage.

Funny how you mention the "Old Firm", no self respecting rangers fan would ever want to use a name that bundles them and their most hated rival in the same category. Guess you're just as much a glory hunter as the rest of the trash.

 

Also you did nothing to justify the monopoly in scotland. As previously stated, there are many leagues where 2-3 teams soak up the majority of viewers, and yet they would never consider drowning the rest of the league's clubs for that reason.

You also used the typical "If it's not them, it's us" bull **** excuse. I think Pol Pot said something like that once. either way, it's bull ****. "Upper class", convenient view that has been destroying the scottish game for decades.

 

Now go celebrate your "Wonderful history" with that "Cup winners cup" title from the early 70s.

I'll be more impressed if you were to find 10 people in south america who have ever heard of Rangers.

 

And this is what I said:

 

Hmm. So how are the Old Firm destroying Scottish football? For starters, Celtic see themselves as Irish, and Rangers as British; neither see themselves as Scottish first and foremost, which is unheard of when it comes to the biggest clubs in almost every other league. From that comes a wanton disregard for all other Scottish clubs and the Scottish game in general: 'Rangers men', whether managers or players, walking out on the national team in acts of complete treachery; both clubs constantly talking the game down, blaming it for their perennial failures in Europe and desperate to leave for England (again, what other clubs in any other country behave in such a way?); acting in tandem to veto SPL TV, so plunging most other clubs into financial crisis, and imposing disgusting 5% surcharges on all other clubs when it comes to the OF's away fans.

 

They complain about lack of competition, then if another club challenges for so much as a couple of months, sign their best players and leave them to rot on the bench or in the reserves. In Paul Ritchie's case, Rangers tapped him up a year before he was out of contract, persuaded him to leave for nothing, then sold him within six weeks of his arrival! In Andy Webster's case, David Murray cut a nice little deal with Dave Whelan, and Hearts were gazumped. And in Paul Hartley's case, Celtic had the brass neck to offer 200K for him early in 2005: if Hearts hadn't changed ownership, we'd have had little option other than to accept. Same with most other non-OF clubs.

 

Nothing unusual in the best players signing for the biggest clubs. What's extremely unusual is them not being remunerated for it: where's the incentive to develop players through the grassroots if the OF just pillage you regardless and give you nothing back?

 

Then there's the incredible domination of administrators and the media (criticise Rangers in the press, and David Murray will do his damndest to ensure you don't get another decent job anywhere), players who talk about Rangers or Celtic being their 'boyhood heroes', managers doing the same (unheard of in most other leagues), and as for the referees... Rangers and Celtic like to talk about refereeing decisions evening themselves out over a season: what this means in practice is if (sorry, when) Rangers get a ridiculous decision one week, Celtic must get one the next. All the other clubs don't count, as Craig Levein correctly observed in his inch-perfect condemnation of how things are done in Scotland after Dundee United were comically robbed at Ibrox late in 07/8.

 

Barry Ferguson practically shaking hands with the ball in the build-up to a goal in the CIS Cup semi-final. Dundee United having a penalty as clear as day not given in the final. David Weir, slower than a week in jail, booked once all season in 2007/8, when Rangers had an insane number of fixtures; Ferguson, no-one's idea of a shrinking violet, not being booked at all all season long. Scandalous penalties and sendings off when Hearts have met Celtic or Rangers in crunch clashes in recent years; a run of I don't know how many opposing players sent off against Celtic in successive games (it was eight I think - which beggars belief). When a player for any other club celebrates by running towards the crowd, they're booked; when an OF player does it, they're not. And referees on record saying the OF derby is refereed "differently" from any other game anyway - so four times a season, the laws of the game apparently no longer apply.

 

And all that's before I even mention the disgusting sectarian bile with which both fanbases pollute the game, and both fanbases continue to defend on laughable, spurious grounds which most of their fans probably don't understand anyway. And you know what's most bizarre of all? It's like you're incapable of acting without one another: you need each other. You think it's a coincidence you've both been sponsored by the same company for many years? That you both campaign for a move to England, or both impose the 5% surcharge? You're two cheeks of the same backside, continually holding the rest of Scotland to ransom; meanwhile, standards fall year on year, and Scotland becomes ever more of a backwater.

 

Just GTF. You don't need us; we sure as heck don't need you.

[Shaggy2]

Just to update this: onto the forum, up popped a Rangers fan talking absolute smack, enraged by what we were saying. This is what he said:

 

Why should we care about other Scottish teams?

 

They sure as hell wouldn't care about us if the tables were turned!

 

The damage? If it wasn't for our fans consistently pumping money into your cubs when we take our massive away crowds, which without (and SPL chairmen have even admitted) the SPL would just about die. Rangers and Celtic are more important to Scottish football than the other 10 clubs added together.

 

The fact is loads more people would watch Aberdeen vs Rangers than Dundee United vs Hearts ect. So the TV companies would rather show a game that pulled in much bigger ratings.

 

Rangers and Celtic are massive clubs in a small league.

 

No. Thats not how it works, we don't own any TV rights at all.

 

What happens is the SPL clubs vote and sell the rights to a TV Company/Companies every four years, who in turn pick the games that will get them the most viewers, which in most cases include Rangers or Celtic.

 

 

Jeez do you actually watch Scottish football?

 

We are destroying Scottish football! Catch a grip.

 

The other clubs are more to blame for the demise of Scottish football. The TV deal before the current one was between either Sky Sports and Setanta Sports, Setanta were offering more money on the table but the Sky deal in the long term was much much better and I mean MUCH. So guess what happens Rangers and Celtic and to be fair to them Aberdeen voted for the Sky deal but the rest seen the money in front of them and went for Setanta. A few years later Setanta go bust and we are left to take a cut price deal and now we all have no money.

 

You guys are really really ignorant when it comes to the importance of the OF.

 

This is what our Uruguayan friend said in response:

 

Typical. Self important / condescending garbage.

Funny how you mention the "Old Firm", no self respecting rangers fan would ever want to use a name that bundles them and their most hated rival in the same category. Guess you're just as much a glory hunter as the rest of the trash.

 

Also you did nothing to justify the monopoly in scotland. As previously stated, there are many leagues where 2-3 teams soak up the majority of viewers, and yet they would never consider drowning the rest of the league's clubs for that reason.

You also used the typical "If it's not them, it's us" bull **** excuse. I think Pol Pot said something like that once. either way, it's bull ****. "Upper class", convenient view that has been destroying the scottish game for decades.

 

Now go celebrate your "Wonderful history" with that "Cup winners cup" title from the early 70s.

I'll be more impressed if you were to find 10 people in south america who have ever heard of Rangers.

 

And this is what I said:

 

Hmm. So how are the Old Firm destroying Scottish football? For starters, Celtic see themselves as Irish, and Rangers as British; neither see themselves as Scottish first and foremost, which is unheard of when it comes to the biggest clubs in almost every other league. From that comes a wanton disregard for all other Scottish clubs and the Scottish game in general: 'Rangers men', whether managers or players, walking out on the national team in acts of complete treachery; both clubs constantly talking the game down, blaming it for their perennial failures in Europe and desperate to leave for England (again, what other clubs in any other country behave in such a way?); acting in tandem to veto SPL TV, so plunging most other clubs into financial crisis, and imposing disgusting 5% surcharges on all other clubs when it comes to the OF's away fans.

 

They complain about lack of competition, then if another club challenges for so much as a couple of months, sign their best players and leave them to rot on the bench or in the reserves. In Paul Ritchie's case, Rangers tapped him up a year before he was out of contract, persuaded him to leave for nothing, then sold him within six weeks of his arrival! In Andy Webster's case, David Murray cut a nice little deal with Dave Whelan, and Hearts were gazumped. And in Paul Hartley's case, Celtic had the brass neck to offer 200K for him early in 2005: if Hearts hadn't changed ownership, we'd have had little option other than to accept. Same with most other non-OF clubs.

 

Nothing unusual in the best players signing for the biggest clubs. What's extremely unusual is them not being remunerated for it: where's the incentive to develop players through the grassroots if the OF just pillage you regardless and give you nothing back?

 

Then there's the incredible domination of administrators and the media (criticise Rangers in the press, and David Murray will do his damndest to ensure you don't get another decent job anywhere), players who talk about Rangers or Celtic being their 'boyhood heroes', managers doing the same (unheard of in most other leagues), and as for the referees... Rangers and Celtic like to talk about refereeing decisions evening themselves out over a season: what this means in practice is if (sorry, when) Rangers get a ridiculous decision one week, Celtic must get one the next. All the other clubs don't count, as Craig Levein correctly observed in his inch-perfect condemnation of how things are done in Scotland after Dundee United were comically robbed at Ibrox late in 07/8.

 

Barry Ferguson practically shaking hands with the ball in the build-up to a goal in the CIS Cup semi-final. Dundee United having a penalty as clear as day not given in the final. David Weir, slower than a week in jail, booked once all season in 2007/8, when Rangers had an insane number of fixtures; Ferguson, no-one's idea of a shrinking violet, not being booked at all all season long. Scandalous penalties and sendings off when Hearts have met Celtic or Rangers in crunch clashes in recent years; a run of I don't know how many opposing players sent off against Celtic in successive games (it was eight I think - which beggars belief). When a player for any other club celebrates by running towards the crowd, they're booked; when an OF player does it, they're not. And referees on record saying the OF derby is refereed "differently" from any other game anyway - so four times a season, the laws of the game apparently no longer apply.

 

And all that's before I even mention the disgusting sectarian bile with which both fanbases pollute the game, and both fanbases continue to defend on laughable, spurious grounds which most of their fans probably don't understand anyway. And you know what's most bizarre of all? It's like you're incapable of acting without one another: you need each other. You think it's a coincidence you've both been sponsored by the same company for many years? That you both campaign for a move to England, or both impose the 5% surcharge? You're two cheeks of the same backside, continually holding the rest of Scotland to ransom; meanwhile, standards fall year on year, and Scotland becomes ever more of a backwater.

 

Just GTF. You don't need us; we sure as heck don't need you.

 

And...........RELAX!

 

I quite enjoyed that post.