Where do we go from here?

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I take it, if we are not bringing anyone in and playing more youngsters then we are going to see a fair few players shipped out in the coming windows to A) Shave the wage bill of high paid wasters and Sell good players for a decent profit to bring down the debt.

 

Seriously with our debt at over 30 mil, we need to do both. if we are to accept that we are going down the route of playing kids then we have to go the whole hog and do it properly with fewer signings coming in and stars sold for their optimum value... If we do this properly for a few seasons and the quality is there in the youth ranks then we will be in a much more sustainable position in terms of finances and well... that to me would be a huge relief really. If we slash the debt over the next few seasons then we will not be completely at the mercy of vlad's whim and we will be in a better position for any potential suitors if they wanted to buy Vlad's shares.

 

Would you be willing to accept the risks of mid-table mediocrity with the possibility (but no more than that) of better each season until the debt is slashed, in order to get the club on a more stable footing?

[JAMMY]

does this mean we will only sign up and coming youngsters from around the world like Ajax and Arsenal have done or solely promote young talent from our academy meaning no signings for a season or two??

[TheBigO]

does this mean we will only sign up and coming youngsters from around the world like Ajax and Arsenal have done or solely promote young talent from our academy meaning no signings for a season or two??

 

A bit of both i'd think mate. The lad Gordon Smith we just promoted to 1st team was signed from Livi and we've signed more lads from around Scotland recently. I'd imagine we'll continue to recruit the like of Eggert, Novikovas, the McGowan bros, Rocky and Park from far afield too.

 

What i'd say is that we'll continue to pick up more experienced players too. Like Bouzid or whatever. Every time Csaba talks about youth, he talks more about the experienced players needed to help them.

 

If you have Hearts World, listen to his interview from yesterday for an insight into this

[We_are_the_Hearts]

A bit of both i'd think mate. The lad Gordon Smith we just promoted to 1st team was signed from Livi and we've signed more lads from around Scotland recently. I'd imagine we'll continue to recruit the like of Eggert, Novikovas, the McGowan bros, Rocky and Park from far afield too.

 

What i'd say is that we'll continue to pick up more experienced players too. Like Bouzid or whatever. Every time Csaba talks about youth, he talks more about the experienced players needed to help them.

 

If you have Hearts World, listen to his interview from yesterday for an insight into this

 

I don't see how players like Stewart and Bouzid are helping anyone? And Csaba is not helping by defending them. What is that saying to the youngsters?

 

Stewart : Not even going there again.

 

Bouzid: needs to show some experience and example instead of being reckless and throwing themself into challenges in dangerous areas. He got away with one against Utd, then got caught for 2 in Zagreb and then cost us the game on Sunday. OK it was a bad decision but a good experienced player would have jockeyed and shown Naismith out wide.

[TheBigO]

I don't see how players like Stewart and Bouzid are helping anyone? And Csaba is not helping by defending them. What is that saying to the youngsters?

 

Stewart : Not even going there again.

 

Bouzid: needs to show some experience and example instead of being reckless and throwing themself into challenges in dangerous areas. He got away with one against Utd, then got caught for 2 in Zagreb and then cost us the game on Sunday. OK it was a bad decision but a good experienced player would have jockeyed and shown Naismith out wide.

 

You're right re Bouzid. So far. Very early days though - he's probably trying too hard to impress and taking on too much responsibility in the wrong ways. It's been a baptism of fire for the new lads. Hopefully after tonight, they'll settle into the team and Scottish football. Season starts Sunday for me.

[Buffalo Bill]

Where do we go from here?

 

 

For, there is no crossroads because I'll just keep supporting the team, re-newing my seat year on year.

 

 

For Hearts, we can be a good team on the current budget if we invest in the right people for the right areas. One day, I hope we lose the last of the wage thieves because a club in our state can't afford to have pusillanimous jokers like Kingston and Nade sucking us dry. We just have to be a bit more methodical in the transfer market.

 

 

I still think it's worth going back to the drawing board to deisgn and build a basic, most modest main stand, and then that way: the stadium issue is over; even if the debt increases further due to its constructon.

 

I'd also like a bar under the Wheatfield.

[spennyboy]

I take it, if we are not bringing anyone in and playing more youngsters then we are going to see a fair few players shipped out in the coming windows to A) Shave the wage bill of high paid wasters and Sell good players for a decent profit to bring down the debt.

 

Seriously with our debt at over 30 mil, we need to do both. if we are to accept that we are going down the route of playing kids then we have to go the whole hog and do it properly with fewer signings coming in and stars sold for their optimum value... If we do this properly for a few seasons and the quality is there in the youth ranks then we will be in a much more sustainable position in terms of finances and well... that to me would be a huge relief really. If we slash the debt over the next few seasons then we will not be completely at the mercy of vlad's whim and we will be in a better position for any potential suitors if they wanted to buy Vlad's shares.

 

Would you be willing to accept the risks of mid-table mediocrity with the possibility (but no more than that) of better each season until the debt is slashed, in order to get the club on a more stable footing?

Would you be willing to accept bottom 6 failures, early exits from cups, no europe with the possibility of worse each season and of relegation until the debt is gone (say oh 10 seasons maybe)?

[HelloSunshine]

We clearly don't have an abundance of quality players in our squad, so yes, this seems like the right thing to do: balance the few experienced and quality players we do have with youngsters.

 

I would find it easier to support a group of young local boys who were giving their all for the jersey each week, albeit that they may not have the technical ability of some of the foreigners in our squad - than continue to watch some of the money grabbers who are in and around the team at the moment who don't act like they appreciate what it means to play for our club.

If everyone is giving 100% every week (and Csaba sees enough ability in training to pick them), you can't ask for much more than that.

 

I'm not anti-foreign by any means, but I would like to see a Scottish spine to our team in the same way as Man U, Chelsea etc. I concede that the difference with these clubs is that they can buy the best local talent and add quality foreign players using their wealth, but I'm convinced that if it wasn't for Scholes, Terry, Gerrard, etc demanding the effort and professionalism that their club deserves, many of the imports would not have succeeded in the way that they have.

 

IMO, we should base this season around Macdonald, Driver, Obua, Stewart, Black and Glen, with every other position on offer to the remainder.

 

We should aim to sell several from Zaluikas, Kingston, Bouzid, Jonnson, Balogh, Kello, Ruben, Nade, Witteveen, Kucharski, Gonclaves & Suso - unless any of these consistently show the desire and ability to justify playing in maroon.

 

The reduction of debt is a secondary issue for me (although I understand its importance and impact on limiting our ability to attract and retain good players.).

I've paid little attention to our financial position in recent years having conceded that it will take decades for us to have a healthy bank balance. The frustrating part is that we sell the likes of Gordon for ?9m and this does little to improve the overall position.

My worry would be that we sell our most important players and have to replace these with youngsters, leaving us vulnerable to relegation and collapse.

Still, I'd rather go down with a bunch of young fighters than half-hearted money grabbers.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Whats actually changed?

 

We - as we have been for many years past, are in a fight for 3rd place.

 

We may not be as well equiped as we have been in some past years, but we are also not desperately short of reaching this mark.

 

3rd is the highest goal a non-OF team can achieve each season (realistically).

 

We are going to fight for that spot with teams that are no more or less adept at reaching that this season IMO.

 

As Hearts supporters we often believe we should be shoe-in for third most seasons. The results have shown us this is not neccesarily true.

 

I dont belive our chances have dropped dramatically, but we are still in with a fighting shoud (as every year) on a reduced wage, and hopefully still reducing.

 

This may not be the news people want if they expect us to be competing with the OF. But in the long run we need to have a sustainable vinancial situation which goes hand in hand with the football we play.

 

We should expect shifting ground while this settles. And if we can maintain a viable challenge for 3rd while this happens then we are not losing out.

 

In the long run, when (if) we have a sustainable club we can build upon this, sensibly, rather than gambiling on short term higher risk payoffs.

 

Youngsters and wage limits are part of that process.

 

In amongst all the other madness at the club, I think this long term plan is still being driven towards. And it should hopefully stand the club in good stead for the future.

[TheBigO]

We clearly don't have an abundance of quality players in our squad, so yes, this seems like the right thing to do: balance the few experienced and quality players we do have with youngsters.

 

I would find it easier to support a group of young local boys who were giving their all for the jersey each week, albeit that they may not have the technical ability of some of the foreigners in our squad - than continue to watch some of the money grabbers who are in and around the team at the moment who don't act like they appreciate what it means to play for our club.

If everyone is giving 100% every week (and Csaba sees enough ability in training to pick them), you can't ask for much more than that.

 

I'm not anti-foreign by any means, but I would like to see a Scottish spine to our team in the same way as Man U, Chelsea etc. I concede that the difference with these clubs is that they can buy the best local talent and add quality foreign players using their wealth, but I'm convinced that if it wasn't for Scholes, Terry, Gerrard, etc demanding the effort and professionalism that their club deserves, many of the imports would not have succeeded in the way that they have.

 

IMO, we should base this season around Macdonald, Driver, Obua, Stewart, Black and Glen, with every other position on offer to the remainder.

 

We should aim to sell several from Zaluikas, Kingston, Bouzid, Jonnson, Balogh, Kello, Ruben, Nade, Witteveen, Kucharski, Gonclaves & Suso - unless any of these consistently show the desire and ability to justify playing in maroon.

 

The reduction of debt is a secondary issue for me (although I understand its importance and impact on limiting our ability to attract and retain good players.).

I've paid little attention to our financial position in recent years having conceded that it will take decades for us to have a healthy bank balance. The frustrating part is that we sell the likes of Gordon for ?9m and this does little to improve the overall position.

My worry would be that we sell our most important players and have to replace these with youngsters, leaving us vulnerable to relegation and collapse.

Still, I'd rather go down with a bunch of young fighters than half-hearted money grabbers.

 

I agree with what you're saying as a footballing model. Local heart supplemented with foreign talent (think the 97/98 team!). I've highlighted a couple of players I'd add to your first group of mainstays though

 

And I wouldn't say sell the rest in that 2nd group - couple of decent players there - Bouzid, Suso and Kucharski need to be given a chance. Larry and Jose are good players, but just not worth the money and Pala is probably the standard of foreigner we're likely to get and along with the core players, will always do ok for us

[HelloSunshine]

Sure, I'd have no problem with some of the second group hanging around - I had these there as I reckon we could breed youngsters on a budget to be as good / hungrier than those listed.

It's unrealistic to think that they would all leave, but if we were to lose any 3 or 4 from this group, it would be interesting to see if the rest started to move further towards the door, or if they rolled their sleeves up and starting working harder.

Let's hope that Craig Thomson does well in the team tonight and same with Gordon Smith and Jonny Stewart if they get a run out. We could do with a lift after the poor start and seeing some decent youngsters come in would do it for me.

[leith lynx]

Have to agree with all you have said.

We wanted a striker in on the basis we were talking about splitting the OF, okay we wont get that striker but that still makes us one of the strongest squads available to claim 3rd spot again.

Like last season it will not be pretty but although we wont score a lot of goals in our league campaign we will not loose a lot either.

Our start would have been hard for most teams in the premier league so lets see were we are come halfway through the season and if Csaba gives some of the youngsters the chance in certain games i dont think our season will be all that bad

[Hawick Jambo]

I also think we will and probably should go back to playing 4 - 5 - 1

 

Its unlikely to be a thrill a minute but at least we may start getting results.

 

If we can offload the likes of Nade and Kingston asap I'll be happy

[jambo_74]

Would you be willing to accept bottom 6 failures, early exits from cups, no europe with the possibility of worse each season and of relegation until the debt is gone (say oh 10 seasons maybe)?

 

I don't think thats entirely fair. Hearts worked under a budget when Mercer was in charge during the eighties, we progressed from yoyo club to the second best team in Scotland in the space of five years. I don't think we would struggle for anywhere near as long as you are predicting.

 

Fiscal prudence doesn't necessarilly mean we don't sign anyone, it just means we work within a wage structure that isn't going to exacerbate the debt situation even more.

 

Hearts even under new financial constraints will still have more to spend than most of the clubs outside the gruesome twosome.

 

If we could over the next few seasons have a more sensible approach to player signings, along the lines of the signing policy we had in place in the early to mid eighties, where a combination of youth and experience blended to form a very good team, I think we could be ok.

[spennyboy]

I don't think thats entirely fair. Hearts worked under a budget when Mercer was in charge during the eighties, we progressed from yoyo club to the second best team in Scotland in the space of five years. I don't think we would struggle for anywhere near as long as you are predicting.

 

Fiscal prudence doesn't necessarilly mean we don't sign anyone, it just means we work within a wage structure that isn't going to exacerbate the debt situation even more.

 

Hearts even under new financial constraints will still have more to spend than most of the clubs outside the gruesome twosome.

 

If we could over the next few seasons have a more sensible approach to player signings, along the lines of the signing policy we had in place in the early to mid eighties, where a combination of youth and experience blended to form a very good team, I think we could be ok.

 

I was just putting up the other side of Mothys coin mate. Of course we'd acceptable what he put up but he was just talking about the good side, what about the bad?

 

Were we ?30million pounds in debt under Mercer? Under Mercer we had players like Robertson, Colquhoun, MacKay, Clark, Bone, Jardine, Smith, Levein, we have no-one like that no in terms of talent or experience. I mean come on compare anyone of them to anyone one of our current team and they just don't eh.....well compare!

 

So how are we gonna trade our way out of ?30million worth of debt when we have no sellable assets (like Gordon or even Bednar), don't have a side, imo, capable of finshing better than 5th(and the side will only get worse if we're just playing academy players), with no europe, dwindling crowds(due to the dross on park) and no success??

 

You say we will still sign players but ones who fit the wage bill, are you saying players like Lee Miller, Steve McLean, Stokes and the boy from Livvy(plus 15 others) were all out of our range? If so, I'm no looking forward to seeing who is in our range.