neave Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 It was so bad that even some of the apologists on here grudgingly admitted we needed a manager and that Vlad wasn't the next Morinhio. You loved it, didn't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 In fairness, I do see where GTC's coming from. In any season, there's a pivotal period which underlines whether you're heading for a good or bad one, and he's picked out both periods from 07/8 and 08/9 quite correctly. For me, the home defeat by Motherwell in December '07 was crucial: had we won, we could still have aspired to challenging for Europe. Because we lost, we were looking over our shoulders and all knew the season was destined for the scrapheap. Even then, Frail's record between becoming caretaker manager and the split was virtual 3rd place form, and included wins at Fir Park and Pittodrie. The genesis of a good side if only properly managed was already there - but it took the appointment of a proper, impressive manager to prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 You loved it, didn't you? Spent half my time on here arguing with apologists who said (at the time) everything was fine and we didn't need a manager, so no, I didn't love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bill Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 In fairness, I do see where GTC's coming from. In any season, there's a pivotal period which underlines whether you're heading for a good or bad one, and he's picked out both periods from 07/8 and 08/9 quite correctly. For me, the home defeat by Motherwell in December '07 was crucial: had we won, we could still have aspired to challenging for Europe. Because we lost, we were looking over our shoulders and all knew the season was destined for the scrapheap. Even then, Frail's record between becoming caretaker manager and the split was virtual 3rd place form, and included wins at Fir Park and Pittodrie. The genesis of a good side if only properly managed was already there - but it took the appointment of a proper, impressive manager to prove it. Buffalo Bill . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven98 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Spent half my time on here arguing with apologists who said (at the time) everything was fine and we didn't need a manager, so no, I didn't love it. I've got this hunch that in real life you're not really like this, are you? There's got to be a faint pulse of enjoyment and optimism in there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neave Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Spent half my time on here arguing with apologists who said (at the time) everything was fine and we didn't need a manager, so no, I didn't love it. Bollocks; it gave you loads to moan about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I've got this hunch that in real life you're not really like this, are you? There's got to be a faint pulse of enjoyment and optimism in there somewhere. Being able to see when we are ****e and need a manager does not preclude one being able to enjoy life, no. At the same time, I doubt pretending we weren't ****e and didn't need a manager made others enjoy life anymore either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Buffalo Bill . Yes - it's taken over from opprobrium as my new favourite word on here. But anything's better than that pic of you as a wee lad, BB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heaven98 Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 At the same time, I doubt pretending we weren't ****e and didn't need a manager made others enjoy life anymore either. You could be right, mate. But I guarantee they tried to make up for it by getting out and about rather than banging the same old drum again and again. Still, whatever floats your boat, as they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Looked at overall our form through 07/08 was that of mid table mediocrities like Hibs or Motherwell. There have been seasons like that before and there may be seasons like that again. What was special was the variations between the winter nadir and Spring Zenith. We started looking mediocre but vaguely respectable (14 points from the opening 11 games) Collapsed and looked like the sort of team that goes down (7 points from the next 11) After the new years day statement the ship steadied dramatically and we looked like the sort of team that takes 3rd at a canter (21 points from 11) but we'd left ourselves too little margin for error missed the split and the team, along with everybody else, lost interest as the season fizzled out with Hearts looking like the mid table mediocrities they'd started the season as finishing with defeat by Gretna with almost their last ever kick of the ball in a match watched by practically nobody and not cared about by many more. And it's that whole narrative that made it so bad. Not only was it frustratingly obvious that those players should be capable of more than they were delivering at the seasons nadir After Enduring the bad times we then had to endure the good times in the horrible knowledge that they still weren't likely to be quite good enough to drag us out of the hole we'd become trapped in. We would have needed 24 points out of the last 33 to make the cut which is practically championship form. Coming so close to actually doing that almost made failing feel worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Looked at overall our form through 07/08 was that of mid table mediocrities like Hibs or Motherwell. There have been seasons like that before and there may be seasons like that again. What was special was the variations between the winter nadir and Spring Zenith. We started looking mediocre but vaguely respectable (14 points from the opening 11 games) Collapsed and looked like the sort of team that goes down (7 points from the next 11) After the new years day statement the ship steadied dramatically and we looked like the sort of team that takes 3rd at a canter (21 points from 11) but we'd left ourselves too little margin for error missed the split and the team, along with everybody else, lost interest as the season fizzled out with Hearts looking like the mid table mediocrities they'd started the season as finishing with defeat by Gretna with almost their last ever kick of the ball in a match watched by practically nobody and not cared about by many more. And it's that whole narrative that made it so bad. Not only was it frustratingly obvious that those players should be capable of more than they were delivering at the seasons nadir After Enduring the bad times we then had to endure the good times in the horrible knowledge that they still weren't likely to be quite good enough to drag us out of the hole we'd become trapped in. We would have needed 24 points out of the last 33 to make the cut which is practically championship form. Coming so close to actually doing that almost made failing feel worse. Perfect post It also highlights the misplaced anger that fans have towards Frail. Notwithstanding that he wasnt the man for the job and was put into "scapegoat"* position, he improved things drastically. And had Velicka stayed every chance we'd have made the top 6 - the form he was on at the time. *as evidenced by Vlad's ridiculous claim that he nearly got us relegated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guess The Crowd Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share Posted June 2, 2009 Your threads taken a bit of a hammerin here mate! fwiw I see what you're getting at looking at it statistically. I said in 07/08 that we were so close to top 6 and had we achieved that then even europe wasn't beyond us. But alas, these are only statistics. What was wrong with that season was a complete lack of cohesion and fight. I don't really blame the players - as you say it was a very young team. To an extent they were hung out to dry. They did not have any tactical discipline instilled in them, they had no encouragement from the sidelines (or the stands, but that's another argument) and the whole season just lacked any passion. I think even if we'd missed out on Europe this year, we could atleast see that we had a team playing like they gave a toss and that's the big difference. We'd all love to see us win every game, but i think deep down, if our team (including the manager) does the best they possibly can and leaves every ounce out on the park, then we're happy (well most of us - there's obv a few on here who're never happy!). We were closer to that this year I take your point about the emergence of the youngsters, but imagine they had been coached - I think their REAL emergence was this year and next year could be very interesting if we hold onto them all Not half! I genuinely didn't expect that level of abuse, naively anticipating more reasoned responses like your own - I agree with all that you say, and also with topcat's assessment. If nothing else, I'll remember this thread for being accused of 'the worst constructed argument ever' by a bloke who called Paul Mitchell (a thoroughly nice guy who supports Hearts) a penis! Ah well....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Gosling Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 One thing from last season that was amazing - we scored 16 goals in 4 consecutive home games (4 in each game) which, for a team that was quite frankly gash, astonishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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