Vultures on Tyneside

[Deodato]

JKB,

 

BBC World Service had some interesting observations on the financial situation facing Newcastle. TV, sponsorship and advertising revenue slashed, wage bill now in crisis and upheavel in staff now unavoidable.

 

Which makes me think - is there anyone in that club who we could consider poaching. Not just the first team, but maybe some Kickbackers know of talent in the reserves.

 

Its going to be strange taking the train home to Edinburgh on Friday and passing St James Park - that club is massive. Yet, as we've seen with Charlton, Leeds and the like, no club is "too good to go down" ...and..."No club is too big not to go down further".

 

I think Newcastle are destined for at least three years of tail spin style nose dive. Nothing personal, but I saw them play Arsenal at the start of the season and something about the club was rotten. Rotten to the core.

 

What's the views on JKB about one of Britains biggest clubs - bounce back or the start ot a long slide?

 

Grateful for comments.

 

Deodato

[neave]

I don't tend to care about the EPL, but this is interesting stuff. They were absolutely woeful this season. Dreadful. If they play like that in the Championship they might even get relegated from that, too. There's no way they're coming straight back up: same goes for Boro, too.

 

I agree about the club being totally rotten. Mercenaries such as Duff, Barton, Owen et al. are part of the problem (with the latter looking like he wasn't giving a **** at FT yesterday); their extortionate wages don't help deflate their massive egos (on both a club and individual level) either.

 

Newcastle need to strip everything away until all that's left is St James' Park and the name 'Newcastle United Football Club'.

[heartsfc_fan]

Speaking to a Newcastle mate and it hasn't sunk in yet.

 

He also believes that so long as the "Cockney Mafia" are at the helm, crowds will struggle to be at 30,000 next season (instead of the usual 50,000).

[Hagar the Horrible]

I am sure they will look forward to the away trip to Scunthorpe?

 

Get rid of Shearer and maybe they have got a chance, for too long even as a player and long after he retired he still owned the dressing room, and undermined every manager a job he has proved not very good at. But the real problem was the day Wise walked through the door:rifle:

 

I cant see how they will be better than West Brom who are a proper Championship side, and in the same league that Southampton got relegated from. NU the new LU.

[Gerd Muller]

They need to go down to get rip of all the players that are there purely for money. I agree with the comment about how it may take a few years to sort that club out but you never know, they could be near the playoffs next season. Interesting times.

 

On another note, massive clubs similar to Newcastle, Parma were relegated last season and have bounced back and will be in Serie A next season.

[Jambo Hoggie]

As a Newcastle fan I would obviously like to see us get our house in order and go right back up but I don't think it's as simple as that. I think it will be at least two years. A massive clear out from the boardroom down to the playing staff and reducing the wage bill then hope for the best.

[heartsfc_fan]

On a side note, I bet Boro get about the same average attendance as we do next season

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Read somewhere that at least 15 players in the Newcastle squad are on 50k or over per week. That is unbelievable considering half of them don't give a ****. Owen has got to be the biggest wage thief football has ever seen. Joke of a player.

 

Here's an interesting question for Hull fans: Is staying in the Premiership by the skin of your teeth and securing another miserable season of failure better than competing at the top end of the Championship?

 

Surely the attraction of going to Old Trafford/Anfield and getting pumped gets old very quickly?

[No Nonsense]

An interesting point on Match of the Day last night- 15 of there 1st team squad are on ?50,000 per week or more, with none of these contracts containing reduction clauses in the event of relegation. That got me thinking that some of the players that must be on ?50,000 plus have got to be laughing all the way to the bank. There is no way that there are 4 players in that squad that deserve that wage, never mind 15. A real overhaul is needed to make sure they come right back up next season, but who is going to take on half these wage theif's??

[PTBCAL]

Newcastle never built in relegation clauses to players contract.

[No Nonsense]

Read somewhere that at least 15 players in the Newcastle squad are on 50k or over per week. That is unbelievable considering half of them don't give a ****. Owen has got to be the biggest wage thief football has ever seen. Joke of a player.

 

Here's an interesting question for Hull fans: Is staying in the Premiership by the skin of your teeth and securing another miserable season of failure better than competing at the top end of the Championship?

 

Surely the attraction of going to Old Trafford/Anfield and getting pumped gets old very quickly?

 

beat me to it. Really is astonishing though.

[jamboinglasgow]

Newcastle need to decide what they want to do, they can either try to keep the high wages and fees for the players in the hope that they will come back straight away (but the danger is if they dont succed they will have a club that has taken a massive finanical hit and can end up like Leeds and Southampton.)

 

Alternativly they can say that the club is as others say rotten to the core and strip out the club and the players, get a proper manager not a messiah or a former player. The manager needs to be ready to fix all sides as they need someone who will take them back to what they should be (thats a premier league club not the top of the premier league.) They need to run effectivly and with managed expectations.

[Chris Benoit]

How different would it have been if they hadn't been so quick to pump Allardyce last season?

[Hearts Heritage]

...

 

Surely the attraction of going to Old Trafford/Anfield and getting pumped gets old very quickly?

 

If only the facts backed you up.

 

 

It wasn't the 'Top sides' that were their problem.

 

Arsenal 1-2 Hull City 27/9/2008 P

Tottenham Hotspur 0-1 Hull City 5/10/2008 P

Manchester United 4-3 Hull City 1/11/2008 P

Liverpool 2-2 Hull City 13/12/2008 P

Chelsea 0-0 Hull City 7/2/2009 P

[Captain Canada]

I watched the end of the Villa v Newcastle game yesterday and couldn't believe the lack of urgency from their players - looked like they were happy with the scoreline. I agree that they should empty pretty much the whole staff and start again from scratch.

[Boris]

 

Surely the attraction of going to Old Trafford/Anfield and getting pumped gets old very quickly?

 

Beaten 4-3 at OT, Drew 2-2 at Anfield and won at the Emirates. Also won at White Hart lane.

 

I'm sure the Hull fans are bored already...

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Don't think we've got any vacancies for overpaid underachievers who can't even be arsed fighting to keep themselves in the league that got them their massive wages in the first place, so no, we don't need anyone from Newcastle thank you very much.

[Hagar the Horrible]

I watched the end of the Villa v Newcastle game yesterday and couldn't believe the lack of urgency from their players - looked like they were happy with the scoreline. I agree that they should empty pretty much the whole staff and start again from scratch.

 

I watched the whole game and were unlucky not to score first, but at the end they tired very quickly and looked like dead men walking. I dont know how an EPL team of pro's can tire that easy? perhaps look at the coaching:th_o:

[The Future's Maroon]

Beaten 4-3 at OT, Drew 2-2 at Anfield and won at the Emirates. Also won at White Hart lane.

 

I'm sure the Hull fans are bored already...

[TommyC]

They should get rid of Ashley. He is a joke. Him and Wise can claim responsibility for this. Get rid of Shearer, he's not ready yet. Get Steve Coppel.

[SlyNB]

If only the facts backed you up.

 

 

It wasn't the 'Top sides' that were their problem.

 

Arsenal 1-2 Hull City 27/9/2008 P

Tottenham Hotspur 0-1 Hull City 5/10/2008 P

Manchester United 4-3 Hull City 1/11/2008 P

Liverpool 2-2 Hull City 13/12/2008 P

Chelsea 0-0 Hull City 7/2/2009 P

 

Hahaha, AP in posting urine shocker, not like him is it.

[Gorgiewave]

Read somewhere that at least 15 players in the Newcastle squad are on 50k or over per week. That is unbelievable considering half of them don't give a ****. Owen has got to be the biggest wage thief football has ever seen. Joke of a player.

 

Here's an interesting question for Hull fans: Is staying in the Premiership by the skin of your teeth and securing another miserable season of failure better than competing at the top end of the Championship?

 

Surely the attraction of going to Old Trafford/Anfield and getting pumped gets old very quickly?

 

Didn't they lose 4-3 at Old Trafford? Not a match I would be ashamed to watch were I a Hull fan. They won at Arsenal as well. Very much two separate seasons for Hull.

 

I have not liked them since we played them in 2005. Awful town and club.

[Ben Dover]

They should get rid of Ashley. He is a joke. Him and Wise can claim responsibility for this. Get rid of Shearer, he's not ready yet. Get Steve Coppel.

 

Steve Coppell, or someone in that mould, might not be a bad shout...........if reality was to hit down there !

Steve Bruce is a stick-on to be mentioned, although he's doing ok at Wigan and NUFC may be a bit of a poisoned chalice !

Not sure if Peter Beardsley has anything to offer but he's about the only 'through and through' type guy I'd possibly entertain at the club now. One worry is they might try a him and AS as a supposed fans dream team, but that would be total nonsense IMO

As suggested, they may try and fling MORE money at the problem hoping to bounce back - very risky and probably not the strategy they should really follow.

Even AS admitted that it's not just been this year that's brought them to this. It's been several ( at least ) years of BAD judgement on players and managers. Who are the FIFTEEN blokes on 50k+ though ???

Owen's on >?100k I think with Viduka, Duff, Butt, Martins being some of them. After that I cant think who could warrant such sums ( not that any of them did TBH )

Take it on the chin and get yer Robbie savages and the likes in now I think

[shaun.lawson]

Read somewhere that at least 15 players in the Newcastle squad are on 50k or over per week. That is unbelievable considering half of them don't give a ****. Owen has got to be the biggest wage thief football has ever seen. Joke of a player.

 

Here's an interesting question for Hull fans: Is staying in the Premiership by the skin of your teeth and securing another miserable season of failure better than competing at the top end of the Championship?

 

Surely the attraction of going to Old Trafford/Anfield and getting pumped gets old very quickly?

 

AP - if I was a realistic Hull fan, I'd be lapping it up: because this is simply as good as it gets. The way they've collapsed since Xmas, and given their egotistical twerp of a manager, I'd be astonished if they stay up again next year: they're nailed on for 20th spot next season I'd say.

 

Yet the memories of this season should sustain Hull for many years to come. If Norwich had finished 17th in 2004/5, as we bloody well should've done, it'd certainly sustain me now through the club's current horrors. And the flaw in what you've said is based around assuming they'll do well in the Championship when they go back down: I'm not at all sure they will, and think they're more likely to do a Bradford. Bantams fans can at least look back on finishing 17th in 1999/2000; before long, I think Hull fans will be in a similar position.

[Currahee!]

They need to go down to get rip of all the players that are there purely for money. I agree with the comment about how it may take a few years to sort that club out but you never know, they could be near the playoffs next season. Interesting times.

 

On another note, massive clubs similar to Newcastle, Parma were relegated last season and have bounced back and will be in Serie A next season.

I'd argue about Parma being a massive club. I'd put them at the same size of club as probably Boro, if your lucky! Nowhere near the size of Newcastle imo. For what it's worth I think only WBA out of the 3 relegated will come back up right away. Newcastle and Boro will have a couple of season's in the Championship before they get promoted. And it'll do them no harm!

[Captain_Peacock]

If the Mirror is correct it looks like the whole squad is up for sale.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2009/05/26/alan-shearer-will-put-whole-newcastle-squad-up-for-sale-115875-21389267/

 

Alan Shearer will put his entire squad on the market in a bid to raise ?30million as the cash disaster caused by relegation kicks in.

 

Halve the wage bill - cutting from its current crippling level of 74m, the fifth-highest in the Premier League, with 15 stars on more than ?50,000 a week.

Save ? 10m a year by getting rid out-of-contract stars Michael Owen and Mark Viduka.

Axe up to 100 club employees as income plunges by an estimated ?50m next season

 

Newcastle know that their biggest asset is Bassong, currently on just ?250,000 a year, the same as star striker Michael Owen earns in TWO WEEKS. He could raise ?6m, and he wants to go. Others with a sell-on value include Martins, who could head back to Italy

 

Also looks like the Toon are planning to offer Shearer a 4 year deal.

Shearer's own future as boss will depend on whether he will be handed enough leeway, during a potential financial meltdown, to build a squad capable of promotion next season. He will be offered a four year deal and wants to start rebuilding by the end of the week.

[speedbump]

I'm still laughing at these mugs:10900: :biglaugh:

[$ilvery_Moon]

Shearer on a 4 year deal? I'd be very worried if I were a barcode fan. They need stability but they need an experienced manager to get them out of this mess.

 

If they don't get back up within 2 years financially they'll be even more screwed than they are now. West Brom look the most likely to bounce back and Boro with their level of debt are in an even worse position than Newcastle.

 

The CCC is not going to be easy for Newcastle and Boro.

[berrathanhibs]

I am pretty sure gerami is on around 50 grand pw and he is one of the worst players that i have ever seen.

[JamboAl]

JKB,

 

BBC World Service had some interesting observations on the financial situation facing Newcastle. TV, sponsorship and advertising revenue slashed, wage bill now in crisis and upheavel in staff now unavoidable.

 

Which makes me think - is there anyone in that club who we could consider poaching. Not just the first team, but maybe some Kickbackers know of talent in the reserves.

Its going to be strange taking the train home to Edinburgh on Friday and passing St James Park - that club is massive. Yet, as we've seen with Charlton, Leeds and the like, no club is "too good to go down" ...and..."No club is too big not to go down further".

 

I think Newcastle are destined for at least three years of tail spin style nose dive. Nothing personal, but I saw them play Arsenal at the start of the season and something about the club was rotten. Rotten to the core.

 

What's the views on JKB about one of Britains biggest clubs - bounce back or the start ot a long slide?

 

Grateful for comments.

 

Deodato

 

I have not seen the reserves but hear (from those who do) a lot of good things said about Mark Doninger, a midfielder who's about 19 and Bradden Inman a 17 year old Aussie m/f. They also have a highly rated keeper, Fraser Foster who's around 6ft 6in tall and possibly still in his teens.

Doninger is a Geordie whose family, or at least some of them, (believe it or not) support the Hobos.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I have not seen the reserves but hear (from those who do) a lot of good things said about Mark Doninger, a midfielder who's about 19 and Bradden Inman a 17 year old Aussie m/f. They also have a highly rated keeper, Fraser Foster who's around 6ft 6in tall and possibly still in his teens.

Doninger is a Geordie whose family, or at least some of them, (believe it or not) support the Hobos.

 

Enjoy your tour of the first division.

[The xx]

If only the facts backed you up.

 

 

It wasn't the 'Top sides' that were their problem.

 

Arsenal 1-2 Hull City 27/9/2008 P

Tottenham Hotspur 0-1 Hull City 5/10/2008 P

Manchester United 4-3 Hull City 1/11/2008 P

Liverpool 2-2 Hull City 13/12/2008 P

Chelsea 0-0 Hull City 7/2/2009 P

 

I like how you sneeked Tottenham into 'Top sides'

[kingdannyb]

15 players on 50k a week ?! Absolute insanity !

[trotter]

Didn't they lose 4-3 at Old Trafford? Not a match I would be ashamed to watch were I a Hull fan. They won at Arsenal as well. Very much two separate seasons for Hull.

 

I have not liked them since we played them in 2005. Awful town and club.[/QUOTE]

 

As someone who lives in Hull i've got to point out that what u've written is pesh IMO. Fair enough it's got a few bad places, but have you been to Granton, Muirhouse or Southhouse recently? And also - there's huuuuuge amounts of money getting thrown around to redevelopment a massive area of it.

 

I do agree 100% with your other point though, up until xmas they were doing fantastic, lack of transfer activity in January, as well as being 'found out' tactics-wise is what ruined them for the second half.

 

Phil Brown is on record as saying that he would've been happy with 17th this season. And IMO its probably a good thing that Paul Duffen never threw loads of money at a club who couldn't know if they would actually stay up. Now they have however, its time for some serious investment in quality players, or as you say - it'll be 20th place next season...

 

Also, I'll add that the atmosphere around the place for the last season has been fantastic - the whole city has been caught up in the buzz of Premiership football.

[heartsfc_fan]

If the Mirror is correct it looks like the whole squad is up for sale.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/2009/05/26/alan-shearer-will-put-whole-newcastle-squad-up-for-sale-115875-21389267/

 

Alan Shearer will put his entire squad on the market in a bid to raise ?30million as the cash disaster caused by relegation kicks in.

 

Halve the wage bill - cutting from its current crippling level of 74m, the fifth-highest in the Premier League, with 15 stars on more than ?50,000 a week.

Save ? 10m a year by getting rid out-of-contract stars Michael Owen and Mark Viduka.

Axe up to 100 club employees as income plunges by an estimated ?50m next season

 

Newcastle know that their biggest asset is Bassong, currently on just ?250,000 a year, the same as star striker Michael Owen earns in TWO WEEKS. He could raise ?6m, and he wants to go. Others with a sell-on value include Martins, who could head back to Italy

 

Also looks like the Toon are planning to offer Shearer a 4 year deal.

Shearer's own future as boss will depend on whether he will be handed enough leeway, during a potential financial meltdown, to build a squad capable of promotion next season. He will be offered a four year deal and wants to start rebuilding by the end of the week.

 

Bassong only on ?250K a year? I say we offer him a deal then

[Denny Crane]

I've been asking the Toon fans I know what it is like to be in a Mickey Mouse League (something they've often asked me about Hearts) and they don't seem too keen to answer. Wonder why?

[Ray Winstone]

Because of family etc Newcastle are the English club I follow - I have only been to about 4 games so I would not say I am much of a fan.

 

I suppose not being a Geordie but following Newcastle means I am not one of the 'deluded' fans.

 

Although the 'passion' of the Newcastle faithfull is well documented you can't help getting the feeling that we shall see what percentage of the 'faithfull' will return week in week out next year.

 

I expect the season ticket prices will be similar to what they are now as they won't be able to afford to lower them!

 

As for being relegated, I would not say that it was the obvious conclusion to the last few seasons of dross but it is certainly not a surprise.

 

Shearer should be punted along with as many of the first team players as possible.

 

They are going to have to build from the ground up, which something that 'Big Sam' was not given the time to do!

[JamboAl]

Enjoy your tour of the first division.

 

Another smart-a*sed comment and another that is wrong, characteristically irrelevant and stupid.

I do not support Newcastle Utd in the least although I do attend SJP from time to time depending on the opposition, if HMFC are at home and the availability of tickets.

I have a ST for HMFC and bought last season's UNCONDITIONALLY unlike a certain loud-mouthed, feeble, big girl's blouse, wannabe protester who foolishly paid ?30 more than he needed to. What a humiliation!

One day you will contribute constructively to a thread instead of constantly seeking ways (or does it come naturally?) of trying to belittle every poster.

Please try and grow up.

[Silverymoon92]

We could buy Joey Barton to keep Lee Wallace company in saughton:rifle:

[Groot]

Enjoy your tour of the first division.

 

does he support ICT or did you mean the Championship?

[The Colonel]

Why are some people here saying that they SHOULD be up at the top of the premier league? They've not won anything in years and when they come close to doing so they bottle it! These manky Geordies seem to think that Newcastle have the god given right to be brilliant and win things when in reality they've been rank rotten for a while now.

"Ohh we 'ave a 50,000 seeeter and fill it every weeeeeek"- and that's about it. ****e club.

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

Oh FFS smart arses!

 

I meant surely going to Old Trafford and that doesn't make up for getting pumped every week.

 

They have won something like 1 in the last 20, that can't be enjoyable!

[spacerjoe]

Oh FFS smart arses!

 

I meant surely going to Old Trafford and that doesn't make up for getting pumped every week.

 

They have won something like 1 in the last 20, that can't be enjoyable!

 

You've just summed up the difference between the EPL and SPL just there (and I'm not even going to highlight the awesome results they got on the road!).

 

As a Fulham ST holder, I witnessed Fulham's highest ever finish of 7th. 7th!! We've had mid-table and below finishes ever since promotion and yet the ground is full every week and nobody bitches about never being able to win the title. Why? Because the majority of fans know the prestige behind being in the country's top league and enjoy watching their team battle with the best of the best, week in, week out.

 

You just don't get that in Scotland because the quality across the board is so terrible these days. Beating the team in 3rd place when you're in 6th feels the same as beating the team in 7th when you're in 5th.

[shaun.lawson]

Oh FFS smart arses!

 

I meant surely going to Old Trafford and that doesn't make up for getting pumped every week.

 

They have won something like 1 in the last 20, that can't be enjoyable!

 

If I were a Hull fan AP, I'd currently be halfway to the moon.

[merseyjambo]

Since Keegan left in the ealy - mid 90s, Newcastle have thrown money at numerous managers who have squandered it. Even Keegan when he was at the end of his tenure did that.

 

Souness for example paid 8 or 9 million for Boumsomg. I'm pretty sure he bought Bramble as well.

 

Allardyce bought Barton & Alan Smith.

 

Wise brought in guys like Xisco & Guttierez.

 

Other notable wastes of cash were Carl Cort, Geremi.

 

They also have players like Ameobi who would struggle to get a game for a Championship side.

 

They have wasted huge amounts of money on completely average players. I saw most of Sundays game and the commitment the players showed was disgraceful. I expected them to come out and throw everything at Villa in the 2nd half. Instead they passed the ball around without any urgency.

 

I have sympathy for the Toon fans as the support they show the club deserves better but the wasting of money has been going on since Sir John Hall was there.

 

Ashley tried to pander to what the fans wanted and has ended up paying for his mistake.

 

I would guess that if they can't go back up first time, he'll have to sell for a fraction of what he paid for the club.

 

Unfortunately the Geordie masses are like the followers at The Tattiedome and for whatever reason they want a 'Newcastle' minded person in charge.

 

Its going to be difficult for the Geordies to get back and personally I don't think Shearer is the man to do it.

 

The only thing I'm gutted at was in January, I was working at the Man City v Newcastle game. It was just before they sold Given and the Geordie faithful were saying then get your money on us to go down. They were 14/1 at that point in time. Gutted I didn't do that

[alwaysthereinspirit]

How different would it have been if they hadn't been so quick to pump Allardyce last season?

 

They'll be fine. Keegan will save them.

[shaun.lawson]

Since Keegan left in the ealy - mid 90s, Newcastle have thrown money at numerous managers who have squandered it. Even Keegan when he was at the end of his tenure did that.

 

Souness for example paid 8 or 9 million for Boumsomg. I'm pretty sure he bought Bramble as well.

 

Allardyce bought Barton & Alan Smith.

 

Wise brought in guys like Xisco & Guttierez.

 

They have wasted huge amounts of money on completely average players.

 

I have sympathy for the Toon fans as the support they show the club deserves better but the wasting of money has been going on since Sir John Hall was there.

 

Ashley tried to pander to what the fans wanted and has ended up paying for his mistake.

 

I would guess that if they can't go back up first time, he'll have to sell for a fraction of what he paid for the club.

 

Unfortunately the Geordie masses are like the followers at The Tattiedome and for whatever reason they want a 'Newcastle' minded person in charge.

 

Its going to be difficult for the Geordies to get back and personally I don't think Shearer is the man to do it

 

In what sense? Was Dennis Wise "what the fans wanted"? Was Joe Kinnear "what the fans wanted"? Was Chris Hughton "what the fans wanted"? Was pathetically little investment in the club and completely over-valuing it so it couldn't be sold "what the fans wanted"?

 

In my view, Shearer has a chance of turning things round purely because he has Ashley over a barrel, and will be able to run the team exactly as he wants. Their financial position is near ruinous though - and if they don't come back up within their two years of parachute payments, all hell could break loose.

[Footballfirst]

Like one or two others on this thread, I don't see where Newcastle have earned their standing as a "big club". Yes, they have a large (local) support, but IMO haven't had the success on the field that merits inclusion as a "big club". European success is the normal measure of success these days. Since I started watching football (early 60s), they have won one trophy, the Fairs Cup in 1969.

 

I've checked a football stats website http://www.histora.org/ which ranks them as 11th in England on European ranking, behind Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Leeds, Notts Forest, Aston Villa, Ipswich and West Ham.

 

On domestic ranking since 1960, they still rank 11th, behind Liverpool, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea, Leeds, Notts Forest, Aston Villa and Ispwich. Even Oxford, Swindon, Luton and local rivals Middlesbrough and Sunderland have all won domestic trophies since Newcastle won one.

 

I don't consider Ipswich or West Ham to be "big clubs" so by implication Newcastle ain't one either.

[shaun.lawson]

Like one or two others on this thread, I don't see where Newcastle have earned their standing as a "big club". Yes, they have a large (local) support, but IMO haven't had the success on the field that merits inclusion as a "big club". European success is the normal measure of success these days. Since I started watching football (early 60s), they have won one trophy, the Fairs Cup in 1969.

 

I've checked a football stats website http://www.histora.org/ which ranks them as 11th in England on European ranking, behind Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Leeds, Notts Forest, Aston Villa, Ipswich and West Ham.

 

On domestic ranking since 1960, they still rank 11th, behind Liverpool, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Spurs, Chelsea, Leeds, Notts Forest, Aston Villa and Ispwich. Even Oxford, Swindon, Luton and local rivals Middlesbrough and Sunderland have all won domestic trophies since Newcastle won one.

 

I don't consider Ipswich or West Ham to be "big clubs" so by implication Newcastle ain't one either.

 

If they weren't a big club, people wouldn't be talking about them, and they wouldn't lead national news (not sport, but news) phone-ins. Meanwhile, you're basing your rankings purely on trophies won, but not league positions by the look of it: other than the Big Four, who else since the EPL was formed have reached the CL three times, finished second twice, third twice, fourth once and fifth once?

 

Any Hearts fan should seriously beware ridiculing another club's sense of being "big" - because in Scottish terms, we're certainly a big club ourselves, yet won nothing between 1962 and 1998, and nothing between 1906 and 1954, in a competitive pool far, far shallower than England. But we were still a big club: just a chronically mismanaged and frequently unlucky one, exactly as Newcastle have been.

[Footballfirst]

If they weren't a big club, people wouldn't be talking about them, and they wouldn't lead national news (not sport, but news) phone-ins. Meanwhile, you're basing your rankings purely on trophies won, but not league positions by the look of it: other than the Big Four, who else since the EPL was formed have reached the CL three times, finished second twice, third twice, fourth once and fifth once?

 

Any Hearts fan should seriously beware ridiculing another club's sense of being "big" - because in Scottish terms, we're certainly a big club ourselves, yet won nothing between 1962 and 1998, and nothing between 1906 and 1954, in a competitive pool far, far shallower than England. But we were still a big club: just a chronically mismanaged and frequently unlucky one, exactly as Newcastle have been.

 

I take your point about the level of discussion. Table for domestic ranking goes down to 8th place.

 

Rank

Entity

Nat

TPts

Apps

TP/Ap

1st

2nd

3SF

4QF

5th

6th

7th

8th

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Liverpool Manchester United Arsenal Everton Tottenham Hotspur Chelsea Leeds United Nottingham Forest

Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng

436 397 315 203 185 185 178 92

67 68 66 58 61 53 39 40

6.51 5.84 4.77 3.50 3.03 3.49 4.56 2.30

27 23 15 7 11 10 5 5

16 17 14 7 4 8 9 5

7 6 3 3 7 3 2 4

5 4 8 6 3 2 5 _

6 _ 4 3 2 5 6 3

2 2 2 4 4 7 _ _

2 2 5 4 2 1 _ 1

2 4 2 2 5 _ _ 4

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Aston Villa Ipswich Town Newcastle United Manchester City West Ham United Sheffield Wednesday Derby County Blackburn Rovers

Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng Eng

92 85 76 64 60 59 55 54

47 27 39 42 47 30 22 23

1.96 3.15 1.95 1.52 1.28 1.97 2.50 2.35

6 2 _ 4 3 1 2 2

5 2 6 3 3 4 _ 2

_ 3 2 _ 1 1 1 _

2 2 1 2 _ _ 2 1

1 1 2 2 1 2 1 _

5 2 1 _ 1 3 _ 3

4 _ 2 _ 1 3 1 3

4 _ 2 3 4 2 1 1